DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mike Vick's contract rights....

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If he wasn't fighting dogs period... just "birds"....

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What?

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but regardless... He was wrong. But football is/was his job. He served his time, and he could be let back into the league....

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Could be let back in the league,,, yes.. That's true.. that could happen. In fact, I bet it does.

Do I like it? No, I don't. But it is what it is. If the league says he's clear to come back and a team signs him,, I guess that's fine.

I just don't want it to be us.

Diam, you are not the only one who would walk away from the Browns, I am sure.

As for animals being killed for food being the same as dog fighting - that pig that's in Ballpeen's belly wasn't tortured before being killed. Not that I'm saying that the meat industry is humane, either, but dog fighting is a different level. To me it's closer to kids who will torture a dying animal. Really despicable.

Beyond THAT, I don't even think Vick is a good player...

Yeah torturing animals for human pleasure and greed really isn't the same as killing one for food.

I really don't think that dude deserves to play in the NFL again. He should find a regular joe job.

Hunting is considered a sport correct? Why? Human pleasure?

Hunting is for food and doesn't involve torturing animals.

U didn't answer the question... but I do know this... they show it on television. Why is that?

What about sport fishing or bull fighting.

Vick did his time and deserves to be back in the league.

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Vick has been involved in more questionable situations then just the dog incident. Things get covered up. ie. the marijuana incident at the airport (tapes disappeared???)

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This makes me wonder, how come Santonio Holmes was given a pass after being caught with weed. He even told the arresting cop that he wasn't smoking it at the time but did a couple days before. He's the superbowl MVP.

As far as Vick goes, I agree he has paid for his crime. He did time and was financially stipped, so to speak. If he feels he can handle the scrutiny he would recieve if he returns to the public arena, let him. The nut jobs at PETA, will make his life miserable. If I were him I would lay as low as possible.

For those who call him a punk, I think the term "thug" is more fitting. That's the lifestyle he chose. Maybe he learned his lesson.

I don't know how to quote two people at once. So this response is to both you and Derden.

Ok so hunting is a pleasure (obviously or people wouldn't do it) but it's hunting......bang and the animal is dead and then you eat it. Not the same as torture. Making animals fight each other, till they are bloodied, ripped apart and dying is torture. If you think it is the same thing, then you my friend are on some really good drugs.

And Derden, I don't think think!fishing is a blood sport. Bull fighting yes, but not fishing.

I think being in the NFL is a privilege not a right, and in my opinion he lost his privilege. Let him go find a normal job, I don't see why that dude deserves millions of dollars.

Whether he deserves millions of dollars is beside the fact. Its his ability that garners the money. And the work that he puts in to maintain that ability secures his place within the realm of competitive sports.

Vick will play again. No bones about it.

I agree with you that some desperate team somewhere will pay him to play. I just don't think he deserves back in the league. And I'll vomit endlessly if he ever wore a Browns uniform.

Well Donald Trump works for himself so he can probably do what he wants. Vick works for the NFL, and seems the NFL should have some kind of ethics policy to boot out bad seeds like most other companies in this country do.

"bang and the animal is dead and then you eat it."
I see you've never hunted.The vast majority of hunters never make it to the TV shows,they're not good marksmen.Many an animal has been wounded,ranoff and then died a slow agonizing death.
Now,I'm hungry and I've got a freezer full of venison.

They don't tell you that stuff though...

I can't really disagree with you, but I still think the NFL should find some balls about it. The Falcons are doing just fine without Vick. None of these players are irreplaceable. If the NFL doesn't man up and say it won't tolerate this ... then it will just keep happening.

Ok you people are just ridiculous to compare torturing animals for sport to hunting for food or raising animals for food. If you honestly believe what you are typing then I'm glad I shall never meet you. Cuz you ain't right in the head.

I am really a decent person.

I don't have an issue with you, you're not trying to validate torturing animals for sport.

When you said you people I wasn't sure if you were including me,but after you said ain't right in the head,I knew you were.
What we are trying to get across to you is that animals are tortured by humans everyday and in many different ways.
I understand you're stance on dog fighting,it' barbaric and cruel to you and me.But it's also barbaric and cruel how animals in our food supply are treated,as PBR pointed out.

j/c

We have laws in this country. When you run afoul of the law, and are caught, there is a penalty. Vick, while I've never cared for him, and liked him even less because of the dog fighting thing...........he was caught, he is serving his time, and when he gets out he should be allowed to earn a living.

If no NFL team wants him, he should be able to earn a living doing something else, even if it's flipping burgers. He committed a crime, he got caught, sentenced, and he's doing his time.

When he comes out, he deserves a chance just like anyone else. If that chance is in the nfl, good for him, it pays well.

Now, vick as a qb. is a bad bet for most teams, as he is not a qualified qb. Sure, he would help some teams. But with the help he brings, he also brings problems, football speaking wise.

He has a huge arm. He just doesn't know how or when to use it. He can run like a deer. It just doesn't help his team. It gets him on highlight films, but it seldom helps his team.

Nowhere did I say that farm animals had some kind of happy jolly life. PhilDawson brought it into the discussion to try to validate dog fighting. And the same with whomever is saying that hunting is cruel.

Hunting and raising farm animals is legal. Dog fighting is not. Just because hunting isn't always a swift death and farm animals aren't treated as pets doesn't mean it's ok to go torture dogs.

No you're using it to try to validate dog fighting and Vick's actions. You think it's ok for him to torture dogs because farm animals don't live in good conditions Plenty of people complain about farm animals. Just not usually on Browns message boards. This conversation is getting stupid.

It's not possible to fight for every cause on the planet so don't feel bad.

Don't waste your time ... Phils a real smart guy .. hes just whacked ... and i mean that .. hes whacked .. if u don't believe me ... just read his thoughts on this ...

hes comparing putting animals in real close quarters and having them live inside there entire lifes (sumptin I do not agree with either .. ) ... with TORTURE/TRAINING and MUTALATING animals for PURELY ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ...

its night and die ... its IGNORANT as hell to make any kind of comparision ...

Phil thinks that flying aiprlanes into our buildings and killings thousands of americans is OK cause its our fault ...

and heres a hint Eve .. hes going to repsond to me here with his usual whacked out BS ... so heres the clue .. just don't read it .. cause I won't .. it will be a view so far out of my reality I can't make sense of it ... just like most of the stuff he posts here ..

Think about it Eve .. how could anyone compare dog fighting and hunting .... these guys are entitled to there opinions .. but sheesh ... they want to compare a hunter wounding a dear and the dear runninng off and suffering to guys that BREED and then RAISE FROM PUPS and turn them into fighting and killing machines .. and what they do to these dogs to "train" them makes what the wounded deer go through look like a walk in the park ..

waste of time EVE ..

Regardless of what he did, or how you perceive it, that does not change the fact that he did his time, and he has the skills to find work in the National Football League.

He will get his chance too.

And also, just to put it out there, while many find dogfighting vicious and cruel, many others find it acceptable. Bullfighters also find a loyal following in certain parts of the world despite the bloody torture and death of animals in front of thousands of grateful spectators. And I would bet that many who watch these blood sports would tell you that they are grateful for these animals.

In another vein, we can look back throughout various cultures and find sports that many would find cruel, sick, and twisted, and we would see plenty of people who either hated them or enjoyed them. The fact that these games have existed is testiment to their draw, and shows that humans have done these types of things for centuries. Whether you approve, or not---whether the government approves or not. Bloodsports are deeply rooted in human culture.

Have a nice night.

I never said he didn't have the right to go back to the NFL .. NOT ONCE have I said that ... do u have reading or comprehension problems .. or are U just ignorant?? . its one of them ..U choose ..

I am not saying U guys (actually not even U ... up til this post U have not condoned dog fighting .. but i now see your making up BS excuses to stick up for your LOSER hero .. don't be mad at me cause you a long time ago hitched your wagon to a loser that has MESSED HIS LIFE UP .... *L*) ..

anyhow I am not saying that u guys are not entitled to your opinion ... thats fine .. we just disagree ..... I do not like hunting or fishing so i really hate dog fighting .. all i said was ..

1. If Vick plays for us i will no longer be a Browns fan ... its that simple .. I will not root for an Org. that lets a guy that has that cruel of a heart play for them .. NO WAY ... I would be DISGUISTED ......

I never talked about anyone else joining me ... THATS MY CHOICE ... and if they want to root for them ... good for them .. thats there choice .. I do not expect everyone to live there life by my moral compass ..

2. that i would put ALL involved in dog fighting into a big hole with the dogs they've trained .. I did not single out your hero ... I SAID EVERYONE ...

3. AND THIS IS THE BIG ONE ... I simply pointed out how STUPID and ASSININE it is to compare dog fighting and what they go through to hunting, fishing or what happens to animals in our food chain ... and why did i do that .. CAUSE ITS STUPID ..

have your opinion ... we'll agree to disagree .. but please don't show your ignorance and insult my intelligence by comparing that ILLEGAL BRUTALLY CRUEL ASS ENTERTAINMENT to hunting, fishing and what happpens to cows ..

I mean this is a mild mannered little snippet on training a dog ...

Taking a dog from birth to fully trained for fighting can take two years. The animals are often acquired from a pound, shelter or adoption agency. Top breeders sell puppies from a successful bloodline for more than $1,000 each. Floyd Boudreaux, considered the biggest figure in dogfighting for several years, sold his dogs for up to $10,000

These dogs are not allowed to live normal lives. Instead, they spend their time chained in place, training or fighting. They often live in small cages and in filthy conditions. Handlers use extraordinarily heavy chains to hold dogs in place, frequently adding weights to them, all with the purpose of increasing a dog’s upper-body strength. Dogs are kept close to each other, but just out of reach in order to increase their antagonism.

Professional dogfighters carefully structure training regimens. Food and nutritional intake are meticulously measured. Some trainers give dogs steroid injections and supplements. To build endurance, dogs are forced to run on treadmills and to swim in pools, sometimes for hours. Trainers keep detailed records of their dogs’ exercise and feedings.

To enhance aggressiveness, the animals are frequently beaten and antagonized. They may also be starved. As part of training, handlers will take cats or rabbits, often stolen, and use these animals as “bait.” These bait animals are tied up while the dog is restrained, or they’re put in a small enclosure with the dog. After training with the bait, the handler unchains the dog and allows him to kill it.

Handlers make their dogs tug on hanging objects, like tires, to increase jaw strength. Some handlers file their dogs’ teeth to be as sharp as possible so that maximum damage can be inflicted.

A “roll,” a dog’s first fight, takes place when the dog is around 15 months of age. This test run between two dogs lasts about 10 minutes and allows handlers to measure each animal's demeanor. A dog that’s deemed a non-prospect may be neglected, abandoned or killed.

A second test fight occurs at around 19 months of age. If it’s successful, the dog will be scheduled for “the show,” which we’ll look at on the next page.­

And U want to defend this .. OK .. be my guest ... I could care less if some find it acceptable ... there SHALLOW IDIOTS that are messed up in the head IMO ... taking pleasure in torture, blood letting and death just for ENTERTAINMENT .... sumptins wrong ... taking pleasure at others pain ... not my cup of tea ...

Hitler found killing Jews acceptable ... Mussolini found killing anyone accpetable ... look at all the communist regimes in russia ... alexander the great ... the genecide in Somalia and all over Africa ... Slavery was very popular through out the world at one time ..... so according to U ... just like dog fighting this is deeply rooted in human culture and therefore OK ...

Whatever Dude ....

What Vick did was wrong, and depending on one's perspective, how wrong he was is up for debate. He did his time, and now I hope he is able to put this behind him and lead the Lions out of countless years in the basement.

Why you began your post with 'me making excuses for loser hero, having reading problems, or whatever'--that is hardly relevant to discussion. But I have read these boards long enough to know that that is your style and how you operate---so I guess its to be expected.

But my point is that dog-fighting is highly controversial, as is most every other "sport" that involves killing. And the fact that Vick served his time should mean that he can move on with his life, and if that means playing in the NFL, then I wish him best of luck.

And an FYI, all I compared dogfighting to was Bull fighting, and sport fishing---which is a little different than just fishing, or fishing for food. I could not stomach a dog fight, but if I was raised around dogfights, and I came to enjoy it as some people do---then maybe I wouldn't be so disturbed by it.

I also compared dog fighting to other gruesome spectacles that took place as sport in arenas around the world hundreds and thousands of years ago---this only served to illustrate that violence in sport has been the name of the game for thousands of years. This reference has nothing to do with slavery or genocide---so I am not sure what to make of your Hitler remarks.

At any rate, from your post I sense that you are not going to be cheering Vick unless he is wearing a bright orange jumpsuit as a uniform.

j/c

I wanted to throw up reading the description of how a fighting dog is raised. Especially since one of my friends just bought a puppy and she has everyone in love with her at first sight. I can't even fathom how someone could raise a fighting dog without being unable to sleep at night.

As far as football goes...Vick won't be a Brown. Period. I don't care what he can offer us in terms of physical ability.

We have enough players who cause distractions. Mangini's not the type of coach who would have those players around anyway.

NO NO NO NO no no no no no NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO no no no no no.

that's about al that needs to be said.

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Yes, Michael Vick will have served the time he was sentenced to serve by a court of law, and as such will have "paid his debt to society". However, as someone else said, playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right, and I would hope that such a display of obvious low moral character would be sufficient to revoke any such privilege that he might have otherwise enjoyed.

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He is scheduled to be released in July, and is currently serving an indefinite NFL suspension imposed by the Commish. He will turn 29 years old prior to being released, having not played a snap for 2 seasons...nor practicing. I don't see what value he could possibly bring to any team, nor do I see Goodell reinstating him for the 2009 season.

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He brought this on himself, and if it means not being able to be paid millions to play professional football, then so be it.

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Exactly. People make choices in their lives, sometimes good and sometimes bad. Bad ones made in the heat of a moment can at times be excused, but things such as this that are pre-meditated and carried out in a fashion that places a blatant disregard of the law and moral reasoning cannot be excused. Ever.

My hope is that he not allowed to have any involvement with football at any level ever again. Go find a real job Mike....