|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Sorry, mac, but some of your assertions are wrong. It wasn't that the WRs made the correct reads, it was when DA did. He was able to because he was against defenses that had no film on him to develop a strategy to stop him. He doesn't read defenses well or recognize coverages.
None of the (correct) factors you alluded to have anything to do with him struggling with his accuracy It's not the WRs, the OL, r the RBs fault he was terrible on short to intermediate passes. He was terrible with those passes BOTH years.
DA has bad mechanics, connot read defenses well, does not recognize coverages, and is immobile His best assets are a big arm and above average leadership skills.
All of the Browns played poorly last year and that affected DA without a doubt. However, the WR relies on the QB to perform well just as much as the QB relies on the WR When the ball is bouncing to you on two hops or sails 6 feet over your head, it's hard to blame the WR.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Also, taking a 3rd wouldn't "hurt" the team....it would take away a distraction and solidify and unify the team and fanbase.
He isn´t distracting anyone on the team...it´s the fanbase and media who are stirring the pot...that was my point
Also, you don´t give away an "average" player (an assessment I´d agree with right now...being 26 and being a QB he has still some upside) at ANY position at THIS age for a 3rd rounder...at least 80% of the 3rd rounders won´t EVER become average at their positions...it would be a horrible deal...especially since we should have the leverage...2nd rounder would be fair but I´d still consider it a blah deal from our perspective (esp. if it´s a late 2nd)...there are teams out there who have not got anything close to DA...let them bleed...would you rather have DA or Drew Stanton, Charly Frye pt.99? I really think we should get at least a Top 30-50 pick to make sense for us
and I havem´t even started talking about OUR QB-situation....Quinn is completely unproven and unknown at this point....What´s our plan B? Losman? Boller? Ramsey? Most on here even underestimate the value he HAS for OUR team
You just don´t give away a young, experienced player at a league-needy position if you don´t HAVE to? Look at what price even below avg Ts like Starks go...why? it´s a position of need around the league...so: Do we really HAVE to? especially at ANY compensation available? I say no...I´m a Browns fan 1st not Quinn or DA
Think about this for a moment: if DA was a FA...what deal you think he would get? think about it...even the money looks like peanuts now, doesn´t it? We should have leverage and not be in dump off mode....going out there and stating "as minimal as 3rd round compensation" is just shwoing either bad negotiating or willingness to dump off...whatever it is....both files under the category "giving away his hand"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
DELETED- BAD LINK THAT APPEARS TO BE A BLOG
Last edited by Referee1; 02/21/09 06:58 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Here's to hopin' like hell Stafford and Sanchez stink up the joint...lol...
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Ummmm, you are dead wrong about him being a distraction in the locker room. It's not HIM doing it, but he is a distraction. In fact, you can look no further than the Shaun Smith incident. You can say all you want about him not being a distraction in the locker room, but those IN the locker room says that it was there and noticeable. I'll take there word over yours...no offense.
Oh, and when DA becomes "average", then we can talk. What "upside" does he have? He hasn't improved on bit in his weaknesses. In fact, he regressed completely in ALL facets of his game. He peaked in an ideal situation. The ONLY way that DA brings us more than a thrid (and I speculated he would bring a second earlier) is if more than one team decides to take a flier on him.
Who would I rather have, him or Stanton? I'd take Stanont with all things being equal because no one knows if he can improve. DA hasn't improved.
Things aren't equal, though, and if I'm on of the teams like the Lions, I keep what I have, build the rest of the team via draft, and then go for my QB next year when there is a better class coming out.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198 |
Thank god you aren't running the Lions. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Yes..if they both are evaluated as not being worthy of a top 5 pick..and I don't think either is..the Lions won't take him..I'd like to see them and Tampa compete for DA..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
I may not neccessarily take a 3rd for him ... although I may take detroits 3rd as its the first one on that round .. but prolly not w/o another pick in it for us .. I would however take a 3rd and a 5th for a him from just about anyone . and thats my BOTTOM OF THE BARELL ... and U know I am not one to over or under value our players .. I look at things pretty objectively .. i just see WAY TO MANY HOLES IN HIS GAME .. I'm a huge fan of ACCURACY and BRAINS as the two must have attributes of my QB .. and DA even though he can be one of the most accurate QB's I have ever seen on some throws ... LACKS IN BOTH THE BRAINS AND ACCURACY DEPARTMENTS ... I think DA has value to us ... i think DA is a GREAT BACK UP in this league .. I think due to his defencies he will never be more than a spot starter .. and his defencies are not going to improve due to age .. these have been his problems since he started in Pop Warner .. ... I would do what B said if I were the Lions .. I'd pass on DA for anything above a 3rd .. and I would PASS on all the QB's in rnd 1 or 2 this year .. I'd BUILD the rest of the team with this years bonanza and see how Stanton pans out (I do not thiink hes very good but i would give him a shot before giving up a rnd 1 or 2 pick this year ... ) ... they have a shot to really improve with all there draft picks ... and i certainly would not ruin that over someone with DA's past .. theres some good .. but theres also some bad ... folks tend to forget one or the other in there assesments ... I really do not think detroit is a good suitor for us .. everyones saying they are just cause they need a QB and have lots of picks .... but there not close to competing and U do not roll the dice and give up PICKS in rnds 1 or 2 for a guy like DA .. NO WAY ... our best suitor is Minni ... there the ones ... but we need more than one to drive up the price .. but the real BIG THING that we need to see is ... what happens with Cassell and Garcia .. so far its been 50/50 ... tagging Cassell helps us .. now there going to have to give up picks to get him ... so that makes that portion of the DA/Cassell comparision on equal footing .. Garcia was a negative ... that puts one more QB in play ... and he COSTS NO PICKS ... we'll see how it pans out ... and what value Jeannie and Coke put on him ... if we take less than a 3rd and sumptin else .. then to me the DISTRACTION that DA is (and its not DA .. its just the situation .. ) was the reason they had to move him ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
The Pats will/should keep Cassel until Camps are underway and they know that Brady is back to normal. I think they might trade him after that and that would be for 2010 picks...more bang then anyways.
But they are not sure if they need him for one more season.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
How does the franchise tag work .. that could play a key variable into what they do .. there actually stuck behind a rock and a hard place with this one ....
IMO if they keep him until after the draft .. no matter what happens with Brady they may as well keep him the entire year ... not a bad back up and they more than likely aren't getting anything for him until 10's draft anyhow ..
it would not shock me one little but if they kept them both this year .. and who knows ... maybe longer ... how much damage did the staph infection do ...... will he ever be the same???? ...
the only thing we know for sure .... we won't find out anything about Brady's health until hes back on the field and playing .. as Billicheck will not NOTHING AVAILABLE .... he maybe week to week for 2 years .. *L* .....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
coachb...I stand by everything I said.
You want to point the finger exclusively at DA. For someone who claims to be a coach, you should know better than that.
Tell us, how do you know that DA made the wrong reads and our WRs didn't? Tell everyone how well Braylon and Winslow played last season.
And that Oline you want to stick up for...they sucked big time. The Oline lead the league in getting starting QB butchered...that I will give you.
And Chud...you gonna tell me that guy had his stuff together last season? Again, no way...
I will not claim that DA played anywhere near the level he did in 2007 but neither did his surrounding cast and offensive coaches.
I hope we can trade him for a #2 because Mangini is gonna need that extra pick to draft some good Oline help or Quinn will be on IR before preseason is over.
We will agree to disagree...jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
The Oline lead the league in getting starting QB butchered...that I will give you.
Brady Quinn was sacked once in 2+ games and fractured his finger when it hit somebody's helmet.. that's butchered?
Sorry, the Steelers gave up 49 sacks compared to the Browns QBs 24... I'm thinking the injuries were more bad luck than our OL being so bad at pass protection...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Come on DC .. that was only one aspect .... your forgetting about that AWESOME RUNNING GAME ... oh wait .. Willie Parker was hurt for about 1/2 the year and when he was healthy I believe he was playing PEE ASS POOR ... but there were the "reliable" WR's ... oh wait ... Holmes was dropping big passes all over the place just like Brey .. like the two in the SB .. they did have Ward though .... he is a conistent little bleep bleep bleep bleep ... ... Na ... don't go there .. DA ws just a victinm of circumstances last year .... however 07 had nuttin to do with him being the reciepent of the PERFECT STORM set of circumstances ...  I said it many many times before 08 ... that there were MANY MANY MANY QB'S that could have accomplished similiar results to what DA did in 07 .. when u give almost any QB in the NFL ... ALL DAY TO THROW .... WEAK ASS COMP ,,,, RECIEVERS RUNNING WIDE WIDE WIDE OPEN ALL OVER THE FIELD ... RECIEVERS MAKING HIGHLIGHT REEL CATCHES ON A TWICE A WEEK BASIS ... many QB's would have had similiar results ... they may not have thrown as many TD's but they would have thrown ALOT LESS PICKS ... and theres alot of them that would have thrown ALOT LESSPICKS AND ALOT MORE TD'S ... this will all be over soon .. BQ is going to get his chance and put all this crap to rest .. DA is NOTHING SPECIAL as an nfl qb ... he has a CANNON ARM and not much else .. the biggest thing he has going for him .. BEING IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME ..... the Browns QB in 07 ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Mac, re-read what I posted. I stated they all played poorly. I also stated that many things that were wrong with DA had nothing to do with those surrounding him. It wasn't the OL, WRs, or RBs that made DA terribly inaccurate on short and medium throws. He was terrible in 2007 with those same throws. His accuracy is the fault of bad mechanics, not on his teammates. That was the point. There were some things you can blame on his teammates, but not his accuracy, inability to read a defense, recoginize coverages, or his immobility. Those are all on DA and no one else.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
here's the thing, and i post this knowing full well everyone's initial reaction is that i'm just a DA proponent but please try to keep an open mind, HOW do we know whether a pass is accurate or not?
one good example is the TD pass against the jets in the preseason. we were on their 6, edwards runs and curls, i think, and DA throws behind him. edwards makes a one-handed, "circus" grab. immediately on the boards, all this clamor of inaccuracy but what happened? DA is interviewed and he said "we practice this situation all the time. in that type of coverage, i throw it to his back shoulder and BE comes back and catches it. he normall does it with two-hands though." what of that? does that still mean DA is innaccurate in all teh other times they have a similar understanding but they don't talk about it?
what happens if a receiver runs the wrong route and DA is trying to lead him and, in perception, is way off? how do we know who's fault that truly is? my take, is that people here remember the one throw against the bengals a few years back too much because it was the only case where it was perfectly clear that DA could have put the ball anywhere since there was no one around edwards and edwards still had to lay out to get the ball. we can say that was an inaccurate throw but can we really say that for the others? what about the throws where DA hits edwards on the hands and it's dropped because, i'm hypothesizing, edwards had the yips or he wasn't concentrating and thinking about what to do next with the ball?
further, we act like a qb is NEVER allowed to miss. i've seen plenty of throws peyton made to wayne where the guy is running one way, needs to freak-turn his body in order to catch it. is manning innaccurate in that instance? yes. and no, i'm not comparing DA to PM. isn't the benefit of having an elite receiver that the receiver still might catch that ball in less than idea situations?
i'm not even getting into a DA vs quinn thing. whatever happens happens and i hope we get the most out of DA's worth if we do trade him. suddently detroit's 20th pick doesn't seem so impossible. that said, i'm sure many of us would be looking for proof in improvement from DA to support what we've been saying in a long time, which is he's a young qb with potential. as i've said before, i KNOW i saw the improvement and i KNOW the offense was crisp before the massacre that was the giants pre-season game. it's not a coincidence that the offense turned to crap when DA injured his brain and edwards got gashed in the ankle. colts dealt with the same exact issues with manning missing time because of his knee and harrison, i believe because of legal stuff or knee stuff and if those two struggled for the first 5 weeks, what hope did we have to begin with?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
1. Peyton Manning Colts
2. Tom Brady Pats
3. Ben Roethlisberger Steelers
4. Tony Romo Cowboys
5. Drew Brees Saints
6. Carson Palmer Bengals
7. Brady Quinn Browns
8. David Garrard Jags
9. Donovan McNabb Eagles
10. Eli Manning Giants
11. Matt Hasselbeck Seahawks
12. Philip Rivers Chargers
13. Marc Bulger Rams
14. Matt Schaub Texans
15. Jay Cutler Broncos
16. Kerry Collins/Vince Young Titans
17. Bucs *
18. Jason Campbell Skins
19. Jake Delhomme Panthers *
20. JaMarcus Russell Raiders
21. Aaron Rodgers Packers
22. Kurt Warner/Matt Leinart Cardinals
23. Culpepper Lions *
24. Flacco Ravens
25. Trent Edwards Bills *
26. Kyle Orton Bears
27. Tarvaris Jackson Vikes *
28. Kellen Clemens Jets *
29. Matt Ryan Falcons
30. Pennington Dolphins
31. Tyler Thigpen Chiefs *
32. Alex Smith/Shawn Hill 49ers *
I put an * next to the teams that I think could use an upgrade at QB.
I think DA's value to us is only as a backup so I wouldn't give up more than a 6th or 7th round pick for him. Of course if you look around the league I see about 8 teams that I would say are in need of a QB. With only 2 guys in the draft 3 if you want to count freeman and only DA, Cassel a couple of over the hill free agents I would say DA's value might be much higher to a team that is in need of a QB. I might also if in need take a chance on Byron Leftwich.
I could easily see a bidding war between a couple of these teams.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Quote:
I think DA's value to us is only as a backup so I wouldn't give up more than a 6th or 7th round pick for him
I'm not a big DA fan, but 6th or 7th round? You are crazy. No matter what you think of the guy or where he is concerning this team, his value is way more than that. Only a fool would give him up for so little.
Think about it, a former starter who made the pro bowl, not that I don't think the pro bowl is just a popularity contest, threw for 29 TDs in one season and led the team to 10 wins. Could in all honesty still start for this team, not that I'm saying he should, or be a excellent choice for a back-up with game experience and some ability lead a team. And you think he is equal to a 6th or 7th round pick, who in reality has very little chance to make even the practice squad, a project player at best? 
Makes me glad your name ain't Kokinis
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
No matter what you think of the guy or where he is concerning this team, his value is way more than that.
I agree. For a 6th or 7th, keep him as a backup.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
I was saying if a team was trading for him as a back up like we would be doing. His value to the Browns or another team with a QB wouldn't be very high.
To a team that doesn't have a QB like that ones I listed it would be much higher than some on here claim it would.
Did you guys just quit reading after that line?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
I went back and read what I typed again and I can easily see how you could misunderstand what I was trying to say. I will try again.
To us I don't believe DA has a lot of value. That is why many on here scoff at the idea that we can't get more than a 3rd round pick for him.
If you look around the league I can find 8 teams who are in need of a new QB. Plus a couple more who I would rather have DA starting over if I was a fan of that team.
I also don't see 8 available QB's out there. I think once a couple of these teams start making decisions on what direction they want to go and get into a bidding war for DA's services we could easily net a 2nd round pick for him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS -- General manager George Kokinis said Friday that the Cleveland Browns are in no hurry to get rid of Derek Anderson and were willing to let Anderson battle Brady Quinn for the starting quarterback job.
Kokinis was in Indianapolis for the annual NFL scouting combine.
There has been speculation that the Browns wanted to get rid of Anderson because of his $5 million roster bonus, due next month.
Neither Anderson nor Quinn finished last season because of injuries.
In a separate meeting with reporters from Northeastern Ohio, new Browns coach Eric Mangini expressed interest in Giants running back Derrick Ward. Ward will become a free agent next week.
The 5-foot-11, 228-pound Ward rushed for 1,025 yards for the Giants last season. He will be 29 in August.
Link
Either this means Anderson is gonna stick around and compete with Brady Quinn for the starting job.
Or it means Kokinis is trying to get teams to think we want Anderson to stick around, which could raise his price tag.
All we can do is wait and see.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
I was saying if a team was trading for him as a back up like we would be doing. His value to the Browns or another team with a QB wouldn't be very high.
To a team that doesn't have a QB like that ones I listed it would be much higher than some on here claim it would.
That's what I was saying, too.  That if we would only be offered a 6 or 7 for him, we should just keep him.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
I don't think we would only be offered a 6th or 7th. If so then obviously keep him. He would have much more value to us as a backup than that player would. As a matter of fact I haven't seen anyone say we could only get a 6th or 7th. I did see a couple of people who have reading comprehension problem. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"How does the franchise tag work .. that could play a key variable into what they do .. there actually stuck behind a rock and a hard place with this one ."
I'm pretty sure not 100% but pretty sure its like this.
Franchise TAG him...now there is a Window when other teams can make him an offer as a FA of course if he signs one of their offers they have to give up the 2 1st rounders.
Probably won't happen but who knows with the NFL - here's a possible scenario? Just playing pretend.
Eagles have 2 first round picks. #21 n #28 neither that high so they Offer a long term contract to Cassell that the Pats can refuse.
Now they trade McNabb to the Lions for their Overall #1 and #33...I'll stop there 
In any case they get Cassell.
Now most likely nobody offers anything but during this period they have talked to Cassell's agent and can have an agreeable contract so they go to the Pats and say look - We want him but not bad enough for 2 first rounders. We'll give you our 20th pick for his rights which would include the franchise Tag and they come to an agreement and sign him long term Cassel becomes a Lion.
Or what I was suggesting is the Window closes...don't know the exact date but I know its before the draft. Now only one team the Pats can negotiate with Cassell but I think they still can trade his rights and the team gets him with the same stipulations just the new team now holds the Franchise Tag and the Only Rights to negotiate a new contract which would have been in place more or less.
Now somewhere along the line Cassel has to sign a contract or else he can't come to Training camp or any of the camps for that matter. But especially Training camp...Cassel would then sign the ONE year contract alotted by the Franchise Tag (avg. Top 5 QB salaries for 09) and he starts practicing with the team. But the team anywhere along the line can still come to an agreement with Cassel in a long term contract. They also can still trade him out right to an NFL team up till the Trading Deadline which comes in OCT.???
Well thats what I think is allowed in the Franchise parameters. Comes down to this - the Pats can trade him anytime up until the Trading deadline in OCT.
They can sign another FA who will start taking snaps in the camps that Cassell is missing cause of no contract signed. And as I said wait for possibly the best case scenario where a teams starting QB gets put on IR (like Brady did) and then they have the best solution for them and have them desperate so they can get a good deal of picks from the far off 2010 draft.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
U didn't answer the two main question I have...
1. if nuttin happens with another team .... when does he need to either sign the tender with the Pats ...... or the pats have to "untag" him .. whats that date ...
2. what are the cap ramifications to the Pats once he signs the tender ... is the tender just a "salary"# that and none of that is SB for pro rating purposes ...
i think thats how it works .. but that could force the Pats hand if there is a SB portion ..
ahh .. who am i kidding . i have no idea on this one or how it works .. *L* ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"U didn't answer the two main question I have."
Wait let me ask my 10 year old nephew... lol 
j/k
1...don't know that exact date...pretty sure it has a "J" in it - June or July something...but before Training camp. I think Canty ( an RFA tender signed in June of last year? close to the deadline) should be the same for all TAGS/Tenders.
2...I think once they make the TAG that part is automatically applied to the Cap Space and its a straight 2009 Salary no bonus. Top 5 Salaries and then take the avg. that is what he will make and its all in salary form so if he gets traded...released it comes off the CAP.
And again I'm pretty sure as this was formed over the years in my head - I'm not sure if any changes were made and if I got any portion off a bit. So don't repeat it as in "I KNOW ITS A 100% FACT CAUSE I READ IT FROM EO" If you repeat state...I THINK its like this but not 100% sure.
Sorry thats all I got and don't feel the need to offer proof 
Certain parts I can say 100% and that is I KNOW FOR FACT...in the TAG there is no Signing bonus ramifications...just a straight 2009 salary.
BTW for anyones Signing Bonus on a new contract...see FA contracts coming up...I think there will be no signing bonus per say...just Roster Bonus. Cause what ever it is it has to be Accounted for 100% this season. No stretching it out - I'm pretty sure its all accountable up front until there is a new CBA.
JMHGuessumptions
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523 |
Your answers are here; info EO pretty much has it covered. The player doesn't get "untagged" if he doesn't sign the tender.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Good Lord where did I put that foam??????? Here's a quick and current breakdown of how it works by nfl.com: Franchise and transition tender amounts
NFL.com
NFL teams may designate franchise and transition players during a 15-day period starting Feb. 5 and lasting until 4 p.m. ET on Feb. 19. The salary level offered by the player's previous team determines what type of franchise or transition player he is. Clubs can designate one franchise player or one transition player in any given year.
There are two types of franchise players, "exclusive" and "non-exclusive."
Clubs can designate an exclusive franchise player by offering a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position at the end of the restricted free agent signing period, or a 20 percent increase over his 2008 salary, or the average of the top five salaries at his position at the end of last season -- whichever of the three is greater. The offering club retains exclusive negotiating rights and other clubs cannot negotiate with exclusive franchise players.
A non-exclusive franchise player is offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at his position in the 2008 season, or a 20 percent salary increase, whichever is greater. The offering club does not hold exclusive negotiating rights, and the player can negotiate with other clubs. The original club may match any offer to retain the player, or receive two first-round draft choices as compensation if it elects not to match. The signing period for non-exclusive franchise players is from Feb. 27 through July 15. Clubs have until July 15 to sign franchise players to a multi-year contract or extension. After this date the player may only sign a one-year tender for the next season.
Clubs may designate a transition player by offering a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top 10 salaries of 2008 at the player's position, or a 20 percent salary increase, whichever is greater. A transition player designation gives the club a first-refusal right to match an offer sheet within seven days given to the player by another club. If the offering club does not match the offer sheet, it receives no compensation. Transition players can be signed from Feb. 27 to July 22. (tender amounts for each position included in link:) web page There is no "untagging." The player signs a multi-year deal or a one year deal with his current team. If another team wants him, they gotta negotiate rights or give up 2 first rounders, but the franchising team has rights to match. The salary is for the entire year under the cap, no pro-ration. And it's all guaranteed money......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
BTW for anyones Signing Bonus on a new contract...see FA contracts coming up...I think there will be no signing bonus per say...just Roster Bonus. Cause what ever it is it has to be Accounted for 100% this season. No stretching it out - I'm pretty sure its all accountable up front until there is a new CBA.
That is inaccurate information.
SB's can only be pro-rated for 5 years after completion of the 2008 season instead of 6 or more as in the past........however, you are close to a similar item in this regard----there is no spreading the bad money around come June 1st this year as normally happens. It all hits the cap in 2009 regardless if it is a pre-June 1st cut or post June 1st cut.
I've been saying it for a year and a half now, this Collective Bargaining Agreement being up in the air screws the pooch on a lot of stuff, and we need to hope and pray they get it figured out!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 913
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 913 |
Anderson to Detroit... hmmm... they do have a second pick in the first round and a high pick in Round 2. Wonder what else we'd have to trade them to get them to part with one of those two (# 20 or # 33 overall) picks.
I'm guessing he'll rework the contract if the Lions offer him a chance to start.
Anyone want to put on a GM hat and come up with a trade offer for the Lions to get one of those picks? I'm not sure what we've got that they would want.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604 |
Well, I think DA and Stallworth would be a start.....and maybe one of our injury prone OL....but that seems like something would never happen......you never see a big trade like that in the NFL....but they could use anything really...so if we wanted to work someting out, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard....
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
So if they can't trade him or no one else makes him an offer they HAVE TO PAY HIM the average of the top paid QB's ... wow .... thats gotta be a nice chunk of change ... I always thought they could remove the tag at some point ... are u sure they can't??? ... I did not see the 'untagging" section in there ... so maybe u missed it .... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 237
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 237 |
Quote:
So if they can't trade him or no one else makes him an offer they HAVE TO PAY HIM the average of the top paid QB's ... wow .... thats gotta be a nice chunk of change ...
I always thought they could remove the tag at some point ... are u sure they can't??? ... I did not see the 'untagging" section in there ... so maybe u missed it ....
And if memory serves me right i believe he would be making more then Brady. But like you i believe they can take away the franchise tag if the player has not signed the tender.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
tabber ... the nephew I asked Daman's questions to was 7 ... I did not want to insult the 9 year old nephews intelligence by asking him sumptin so stupid ... I actually thought the question was more geared toward the 4 year old but were just starting to learn numbers and he can only count to 15 .... o ... after actually thinking about it for a minute ... if they can "untag" him .... it would only make sense for them to be able to do it before FA starts ... and that would pretty much defeat the purpose of taggin him ... it would not be fair to the player if a team could franhise him and put restrictions on him in regards to signing somewhere lese ... only then after the other teams possibly made other moves remove the tag .. that wouldn't make alot of sense .. sorry to drag u into my stupidity ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS -- General manager George Kokinis said Friday that the Cleveland Browns are in no hurry to get rid of Derek Anderson and were willing to let Anderson battle Brady Quinn for the starting quarterback job.
Kokinis was in Indianapolis for the annual NFL scouting combine.
There has been speculation that the Browns wanted to get rid of Anderson because of his $5 million roster bonus, due next month.
Neither Anderson nor Quinn finished last season because of injuries.
In a separate meeting with reporters from Northeastern Ohio, new Browns coach Eric Mangini expressed interest in Giants running back Derrick Ward. Ward will become a free agent next week.
The 5-foot-11, 228-pound Ward rushed for 1,025 yards for the Giants last season. He will be 29 in August.
Link
Either this means Anderson is gonna stick around and compete with Brady Quinn for the starting job.
Or it means Kokinis is trying to get teams to think we want Anderson to stick around, which could raise his price tag.
All we can do is wait and see.
jc...
Just like that Brady Quinn is not our starting QB for 2009.
Just like that, Mangini and Kokinis decided that Anderson was going to get a shot at earning the starting QB job for 2009.
The Browns have two young QBs who have the potential to lead this team...
...Anderson who has proven he can play at a high level in the NFL but lost his game last season...
...and Brady Quinn who has waited for a chance to prove himself appears to have great potential as a starting QB.
This is the image Kokinis and Mangini are presenting to the rest of the NFL.
By declaring a competition for the starting job, management elevated Anderson to Quinn's level as the potential starter of the Browns. A good move, IMO...
Until someone steps forward and makes a deal for Anderson or Quinn, the Browns seem to be prepared to keep both QBs. If teams were waiting to see if the Browns would try to "unload" Anderson to escape the $5 mill. bonus, the message sent seems to be, the Browns have no problem paying the bonus because Anderson could be the starting QB this season.
The news that Anderson and Quinn will be competing for the starting job not only elevated Anderson to Quinn's level but it could produce some inquiries about Quinn's trade status too.
I see this announcement as a very smart, calculated move on the Browns part. The Browns are not tipping their hand in favor or one QB over the other and it appears that Mangini and Kokinis place a high value both QBs. Unless someone offers the Browns enough in trade value, it appears that we are going with both Anderson and Quinn again.
The Browns are better (deeper) at the QB position with both Anderson and Quinn on the roster than they are with just one of them...unless someone convinces the Browns it's time to commit to just one of them....jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750 |
I'm glad we're taking the stance that both QB's are under contract and we're planning accordingly. We can take both into camp. I think both are capable back-ups. One seems to have shown it's the height of competence for him, the other we don't know yet. I went to South Bend to see if help was needed loading Brady's bandwagon. I'll give a new GM and Coach the chance to make their mind up about both though. In fact I want them to take their time. Now!! Where't the news that DA got us a 1st and 3rd. 
Go Irish!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
Now!! Where't the news that DA got us a 1st and 3rd.
There is no downside to the Browns position of letting both QBs compete for the starting job.
I was never comfortable with the Browns/Crennel's announcement that Quinn would be the starter this season. It appeared that the Browns were simply gonna to dump DA and "give" Quinn the starting job based on just three NFL starts where Quinn's averages were no better than Anderson's.
Mangini and Kokinis have said little concerning the QB situation until this announcement and I believe many took their silence as confirmation that Mangini and Kokinis agreed with Crennel's decision to name Quinn the starter.
A worst case scenario would be that the Browns again have both young QBs on the roster heading into the 2009 season.
A best case scenario would be that a team in need of a young starting QB looks at the draft and decides there are greater risks in drafting a QB from this crop than making a deal for one of our young QBs.
Here is a good read on the subject of drafting QBs ... "Evaluating the 'Next Great QB' can be a risky proposition"....
ky...web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
CoachB, I agree a bunch. Your breakdown of DA is on target. I feel he was told to do what he was worst at with the short stuff. Looked like plays and patterns were 'dumbed down' because he can't and won't read coverage, so it was idiotproofed (just no receivers on the field for his short and side to side passing 'game' which should be outlawed by the Browns. When he was unknown, DA had success; once they had about three rounds of film available, he got smeared and has NOT improved IMO. Bad throwing motin, slow or no read, stare down, and more. The sidelines made it worse by lame and predictable calls or too many "callers" and then throwing in the general direction of dropsey afflicted receivers. Flush. Get whatever trades and picks for him after the lousy bonus is paid; run a salvage and repo on this debacle. Unless he can be coached up and out of some horrific habits, get him gone.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns analysis: As draft
approaches, Anderson's value may
rise for suitors
|
|
