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The new coach and G.M. can focus on what’s best for the team, regardless of whether the answer is Quinn or Anderson, or neither.
There is truth to this statement. Mangini and Kok can do what they want with the QB- they did not draft Quinn or sign Anderson.
Any chance its a QB at #5?? Wouldn't that be crazy.
We did hire Carl Smith out of USC to be our Qb coach. Just the conspiracy theorist in me talking 
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As for teams waiting for us to pay the signing bonus, they don't have to wait. The can negotiate for us to pay that money or a portion of it as part of the trade.
Something like if we pay the $5 mill we get a 2nd, If we pay half we get a 3rd, it we pay none we get a 4th.
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Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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i didn't want to start another thread but i started thinking about the point that, with a new regime, both qbs are looked at with impartial eyes and neither qb HAS to be on the roster simply to justify past actions. that said, which qb has the highest trade potential?
anderson is a young qb with a huge arm. he went to the pro bowl.
quinn is a highly touted qb and, at least according to many posters here, he performed well in spot duty.
If i'm coke, i'm listening to all offers anyways. which qb would really get the highest offer? would a team offer a 3rd or a 2nd for quinn? if not, does that speak more on the value that the league perceives quinn vs anderson? you could say it's because the rest of the league believes we're going to keep quinn but if mankok are good business men, they'd do anything to drive up the perceived value of any player on the roster. if we receive no offers for quinn, given the poor qb class this year, does that mean the league perceives quinn to be worse than we, the fans on this board, do? would we be surprised to see quinn traded? does this HAVE to be about whether or not anderson is on the team with a given that quinn stays no matter what?
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and to clarify, this is NOT a DA vs quinn post. this isn't even a "do you do it" post. this is merely, "if you were any of the other 31 teams in the league, do you offer more for quinn than DA?"
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This question just came up on NFL Sirius radio and Pat Kirwan said he thought Quinn was still worth a late first round pick.
He even went so far as to say if he was Detroit he would give the 20th pick for Quinn. Based on that I would say he has the higher trade value but I am only going by what they said.
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I think BQ has higher trade value, which is why you keep him.
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lol, what a coincidence. thanks for that. that'd be an interesting situation for both detroit and cleveland.
i was wondering if picks from the draft were like cars where they lose value off the lot or if they retained and i guess quinn's reputation and his lack of game film helps him keep his value.
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He even went so far as to say if he was Detroit he would give the 20th pick for Quinn.
I would make that move in a heartbeat.
#5, #20, #36 and #50?
We could really improve ourselves in a hurry.
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He even went so far as to say if he was Detroit he would give the 20th pick for Quinn.
I would make that move in a heartbeat.
#5, #20, #36 and #50?
We could really improve ourselves in a hurry.
yeah, I'd do it too. it'd suck at first, but the long term prospects of the team would be helped.
For the record, I don't GAFS who starts at QB as long as we win.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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That is basically where we took him... So you think sending him off before we know what we got and just sort of breaking even pick wise but being out compensation, time and effort preparing him would be a good thing for us? DA is that you? 
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I don't think the new regime cares much about the time and effort spent on preparation in the past. If they're not enamored with the kid...#20 would a be a downright steal. I don't see that happening, as the perceived system they want to run suits BQ better.
But BQ for #20? Done and done if it were up to me. In that scenario we could probably also squeeze out a fifth, taking us from a bare bones draft to a stocked one.
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I don't think the new regime cares much about the time and effort spent on preparation in the past. If they're not enamored with the kid...#20 would a be a downright steal. I don't see that happening, as the perceived system they want to run suits BQ better.
But BQ for #20? Done and done if it were up to me. In that scenario we could probably also squeeze out a fifth, taking us from a bare bones draft to a stocked one.
Yep. I would trade BQ for #20 and then sign Kurt Warner to mentor/teach DA the QB position.
you had a good run Hank.
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J/C
Trading Quinn is crazy on soooo many levels. I don't know what goes through some peoples' heads. We can get a 20 for him!!!! Great. What do we do far a QB? DA is not as bad as many make him out to be but if we are running any variation of a WCO we would be doomed.
Mangini was around when we drafted Quinn. I wonder what his thoughts of him were. I would hope he wouldn't be making arash decision on a guy who has no been in the league two years.
#gmstrong
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That is basically where we took him... So you think sending him off before we know what we got and just sort of breaking even pick wise but being out compensation, time and effort preparing him would be a good thing for us?
DA is that you?
No, it's me! ken dorsey! 
No really. I stated I didn't care who started. If it's BQ, I'll cheer him on, if it's ken dorsey.... oh, ok I do care to an extent.
K2 was probably one of our best players and he got the boot. If I was the Browns and somebody offered me a high first rounder for BQ, I'd think about sacrificing short term comfort for long term gain. Think about it, my feelings go beyond BQ or DA or ABCDEF. If DA got a good pick, then hell yeah, i'd trade him. My feelings are for what I think would help the browns the most, not what would get me in petty arguments on a messageboard.
I'm starting to think that we should have a smack shack thread that is BQ vs. DA so we can get all this hostility out.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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J/C
Trading Quinn is crazy on soooo many levels. I don't know what goes through some peoples' heads. We can get a 20 for him!!!! Great. What do we do far a QB? DA is not as bad as many make him out to be but if we are running any variation of a WCO we would be doomed.
Mangini was around when we drafted Quinn. I wonder what his thoughts of him were. I would hope he wouldn't be making arash decision on a guy who has no been in the league two years.
Think about a good OL or DE with that pick. Imagine being able to rush the passer. It's all about the long term. I'm not saying they should trade him, the guy has a good chance to become a good QB in the right environment. All I'm saying is if somebody offers you enough, anybody is up for trade.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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well that's the thing. we don't know what mangini thinks of quinn. we ASSume that, because mangini came from new england, he'd like quinn but that's not necessarily true. the question is, if he didn't pick kellen clemens the year before, if he would've been in the market for quinn or if he would've wanted someone like trent edwards/drew stanton. we don't know how he views quinn but we also know that it was coke's job to evaluate quinn too.
also, where have we read that we're absolutely running a WCO? is it assumed because we think that mangini would want to run a controlled offense? the only thing i've read is the offense is similar to the one chud ran.
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Oh, one more thing: yeah I do think BQ will be better for the O that we will run. Who's the better one long term? I have no idea.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I STILL can't believe some people want to get rid of our QB. DA pretty much sucks, I think most people see it. If we trade Quinn, what does that leave us with? Picking a different quarterback in the draft? 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Personally, I'd ship either one for a first. I'd like to go into the year with both of them on the roster, but a first is too good to pass up.
Neither QB has looked all that promising...both have room to grow.
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I STILL can't believe some people want to get rid of our QB. DA pretty much sucks, I think most people see it. If we trade Quinn, what does that leave us with? Picking a different quarterback in the draft?
Can't people read here?  I said IF. I said IF the price was high enough. Geez, I never want to post in a QB thread ever again.
should I swear an oath to Brady before allowing myself to post? Should I denounce DA in every post?
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I heard today that Mangini isn't particularly enamored with Quinn, they were not sniffing around for offers for DA at the Combines which is a typical place to do so, that Lerner is the one who is behind Quinn more than anyone(and we know he is not a talent scout), I would not be suprised to see either QB go depending on what we can get in return. I see Rogers gone(if you don't want to be here or cause problems), any free agent that can sign somewhere else gone if they please. He will gladly take the picks and build this team his way, with guys that want to be here and play for the Browns not themselves.
Why would they trade a key part to a dink and dunk offense based on short passes and the best hands and best mismatch for defenses?
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I can read, quit acting like an ass.  I don't care what the price -- we don't know what BQ has yet, and if we trade him, we don't have a QB and we'll never know. Sorry, but if it were to happen, someone other than DA better be starting. Seriously, I'm quite sick of the DA experiment.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I don't really see the separation between the two to make one failed and one promising...
Both had wishy-washy college careers...both suffered through a lack of an offense and injuries last year...personally, I'd rather see DA start...and I'm not all that high on DA. But in all fairness, he book has not been written on either guy.
I happen to think this QB class is weak as hell...and despite that, Quinn would probably be the 3rd rated QB...DA might crack the top 5.
I'm really hoping that we have both guys in orange and brown this year...but I think we would be crazy to *not* ship either guy for a first round pick.
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I can read, quit acting like an ass. I don't care what the price -- we don't know what BQ has yet, and if we trade him, we don't have a QB and we'll never know.
Sorry, but if it were to happen, someone other than DA better be starting. Seriously, I'm quite sick of the DA experiment.
yeah, I was an ass how I said it. don't take it personal, it's just a message board. If you read before, I already stated that I though he'd be a good fit for the O that i think we'll run. I'll further say that I don't think we'll be a deep passing O, and DA isn't consistent on his passing.
I only said it because it seems this is a good draft for what the Browns need.
I'm not a DA fan, I'm not BQ fan, I'm a browns fan. I don't care who the QB is as long as they win. Why is pope quinn so untouchable? DA is ripped up all the time and it's fine. Rogers is being a butthead and is getting grilling here (deserved, I may add) even though he's our best defensive player.
Why can't we even talk about it? I like to talk just like the next guy, why can't you just talk and not react like I called your mom a name?
[edit]
tell you what, I was an ass. I've been sick the whole week and working my ass off. I'll just leave the thread. I'm not trying to start a DA/BQ thread, those are complete suck. I just wanted to discuss something that's a little different the current line of thinking. I think BQ will do well for the browns. 
Last edited by homer_brown; 02/27/09 11:21 PM.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I'm not a DA fan, I'm not BQ fan, I'm a browns fan. I don't care who the QB is as long as they win.
If you read any of my history, you'll see I feel the same way.
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Why is pope quinn so untouchable? DA is ripped up all the time and it's fine.
First of all, nobody on this board knows what Quinn can or cannot do. Nobody knows if he'll be great or a bust. Second, we have seen enough of DA to rip him if we want, IMO.
If they wanted to trade BOTH of them and start fresh, I would be fine with that. I just don't want to be left with Anderson. Sorry, I have zero faith in him.
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Why can't we even talk about it?
We have talked (not you and me, but this message board) this subject until we're all out of breath -- but the same thing keeps happening over and over again. It's like Groundhog's Day around here. If people could have normal discussions, talking would be fine, but when it comes to QB's, Browns fans seem to lose their minds. 
Btw, did anyone here what Sam Rutigliano had to say on WKNR today?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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He even went so far as to say if he was Detroit he would give the 20th pick for Quinn.
I would make that move in a heartbeat.
#5, #20, #36 and #50?
We could really improve ourselves in a hurry.
Yeah...then you could draft KWII, Brady Quinn, Sean Jones
Not trying to be a smart...well you know....but I think to many people get to excited about the UNKNOWN.....those 3 guys were all drafted in the range of whats listed...and people are ready to ship them all out of town...for picks in the same range....there is no guarantee whats in box number 1 is better than whats already in your hand.
HACK
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INAPPROPRIATE POST DELETED
Last edited by Referee1; 02/28/09 05:35 AM.
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I don't really see the separation between the two to make one failed and one promising...
Both had wishy-washy college careers...both suffered through a lack of an offense and injuries last year...personally, I'd rather see DA start...and I'm not all that high on DA. But in all fairness, he book has not been written on either guy.
I happen to think this QB class is weak as hell...and despite that, Quinn would probably be the 3rd rated QB...DA might crack the top 5.
I'm really hoping that we have both guys in orange and brown this year...but I think we would be crazy to *not* ship either guy for a first round pick.
If the Browns are "smart" if they can get a 1st rd pick for Quinn you take it in a heartbeat with no hesitation and move on.
As for DA, The main reason i want to keep Da is all about being "affordable" other than the signing bonus, DA salary is reasonable. Brady Quinn;'s contract takes a huge jump if he reaches certain performance benchmarks and playing time.
Between the 2 QB, neither Quinn nor Anderson is better then the other, both are interchangeable...Da has a better longball, Quinn has a better short game...Da struggles about 50% of the time on the short stuff, and Brady Quinn has a noddle arm. His arm was a question coming out of college, and he proved it no different whe he played
The Bills did NOTHING except crowd the line, bring pressure up the middle and force Quinn to beat them deep(which he could not do) If we keep Quinn, this will be every teams gameplan against him they don't respect his arm...the Bill's didn't, other teams watch film...atleast teams respect Anderson's arm....say what you want, But Da was far from the only problem on this team...Edwards and the rest of our team forgot how to catch a darn ball...they even dropped a ton of short passes when Quinn was in there,....it goes both ways
Im just I think "Neither" Quinn nor Anderson is the longterm Answer at QB, but Anderson would be more affordable to keep for 2 years....in the interim with the 1st rd we could get from Detroit we could use to help an area of needs
just think
#5 Malcome Jenkins
Detriot pick: best LB on the board
i would go a bit Farther and trade Rogers for anything we can get, regardless if Mangini mad him mad or not, he don't want to be here, so trade him period...no need to keep him around
We could get a 1st rder for Rogers that could be used on the defensive line...let Mangini bring in his guy for the DL
then 1 of our 2nd rd picks could be used to address the OG, C, or T positions on the OL
the other 2nd used on the best RB on the board to learn behind Lewis
If we made the right moves here, we could free up tremendous amounts of cap space for next year, and give Mangini a chance to build some solid depth here to move our team forward
our best chance of doing this is moving or trading:
Quinn
Edwards
Rogers
Winslow(allready done)
get as many picks as you can, this team needs "young" talent that is NOT used to a losing culture so Mangini will atleast have a glimmer of a chance here...guys get used to losing...and it spreads like a cancer...we should just cut these guys lose...its in th best intrests longterm
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Hack's alright.
Please don't take this the wrong way but don't be so sensitive.
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j/c Included in the K2 trade was a list of the 10 top excuses the Bucs used for trading Steve Young to the 9ers. You know just n case the Browns ever .... 
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hack, to your point though, K2 was just traded and sean jones is allowed to explore free agency. it'd be silly to not admit there is as much of a likeliness of quinn busting as he is succeeding.
there's no guarantee that the new players will be better than the three you listed but given that we don't want at least 2 of the 3 for various reasons...well you get the idea.
and i, as i'm sure many others here, enjoy your posting even if you're rooting for the wrong side.
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I think teams are waiting for the deadline to pass for us to pay Anderson his bonus. After that, teams will be lining up to trade for him. If that's what Mangini and Kokinis want to do.
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hack, to your point though, K2 was just traded and sean jones is allowed to explore free agency. it'd be silly to not admit there is as much of a likeliness of quinn busting as he is succeeding.
there's no guarantee that the new players will be better than the three you listed but given that we don't want at least 2 of the 3 for various reasons...well you get the idea.
and i, as i'm sure many others here, enjoy your posting even if you're rooting for the wrong side.
Thanks man...and for the Steeler board...I am posting the same things over there....People wanted Starks, Kemo, Simmons all gone....Just go out and draft someone better....I have been having these same conversations over there.
Its not smack...its football
As was pointed out...its just the STEEL in my name...if I was HACKDAWG....I would have the same opinion..and it would be just conversation and debate...but with STEEL...its smack
HACK
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He even went so far as to say if he was Detroit he would give the 20th pick for Quinn.
I would make that move in a heartbeat.
#5, #20, #36 and #50?
We could really improve ourselves in a hurry.
Yeah...then you could draft KWII, Brady Quinn, Sean Jones
Not trying to be a smart...well you know....but I think to many people get to excited about the UNKNOWN.....those 3 guys were all drafted in the range of whats listed...and people are ready to ship them all out of town...for picks in the same range....there is no guarantee whats in box number 1 is better than whats already in your hand.
HACK
Hence the word *could*.
We could BOMB on that second rounder and I'd still applaud the move itself. KW2 was a pass catching TE who couldn't block or run precise routes on the downside of his career. A second rounder? Awesome. I thought we'd be lucky to get a mid-third.
Trading either of our QB's for a a first is a gamble I'm willing to risk. I keep repeating that #1 wish is that both stay. But I imagine one will be shipped off. Bet on DA. But I'd ship BQ.
And at first glance I didn't/don't like Mangini/Kokinis...but they didn't draft K2, Jones or Quinn. The more picks any regime has, the better their odds. None of the 3 you mentioned ever enamored me to the point where I considered them cornerstone.
They have a clean slate IMO. Mangini loses points for the Rogers saga. Koke gains them for this trade. I have patience.
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If the Browns are "smart" if they can get a 1st rd pick for Quinn you take it in a heartbeat with no hesitation and move on.
How would that be smart to trade away something that you already traded for in the first place? How would it be smart to trade a promising QB who has gotten his feet wet? How would it be smart to trade a homeboy that wants to play and excel for us?
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As for DA, The main reason i want to keep Da is all about being "affordable" other than the signing bonus, DA salary is reasonable. Brady Quinn;'s contract takes a huge jump if he reaches certain performance benchmarks and playing time.
They are both reasonable.....but to want to keep DA just because of his cheap salary is ludicrous and bordering on insanity. You should desire to retain a QB based on the fact that he touches the ball every time on Offense. The QB is the most important player on the team.....the entire team. A QB should be retained on his ability, not his price.
I ABSOLUTELY WANT TO HAVE TO PAY BQ ALL OF HIS INCENTIVE MONEY!
Guess what that means if he is hitting his incentives???? More than likely it means we are winning ballgames, and that's what we want.
You go on to ramble about trading players for OL, RB, DL..... Quote:
If we made the right moves here, we could free up tremendous amounts of cap space for next year, and give Mangini a chance to build some solid depth here to move our team forward
our best chance of doing this is moving or trading:
Quinn
Edwards
Rogers
Winslow(allready done)
get as many picks as you can, this team needs "young" talent that is NOT used to a losing culture so Mangini will atleast have a glimmer of a chance here...guys get used to losing...and it spreads like a cancer...we should just cut these guys lose...its in th best intrests longterm
Trade away the nucleus players on the team? Used to a losing culture???? These guys aren't "used to losing" they know why they won 10 games in '07 and they know why they only won 4 last season. It is NOT because they are happy with or have become accustomed to losing.
The Winslow trade was not a shocker because he has not contributed on a regular basis and probably won't be able to contribute much longer at all.....period. It was a wise move to move him and the value we got in return for him was fair......TB is taking a gamble on him.
Edwards dropped a lot of balls last year.......but the year before he didn't. Put another receiver opposite him and have a QB who can hit him fairly consistently and we see his numbers come back up.
Rogers was the best player on the D last season.....no reason to dump your best D player over a tiny spat that SHOULD HAVE NEVER REACHED THE MEDIA in the first place. Just like the Quinn weight room incident.....this irks me that crap like this isn't kept in-house as it used to be. Stuff like this should never be brought in front of the fans like a circus act.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
How would that be smart to trade away something that you already traded for in the first place? How would it be smart to trade a promising QB who has gotten his feet wet? How would it be smart to trade a homeboy that wants to play and excel for us?
In my eyes, he's a third round talent. To get a first for him would be more than smart IMO.
Either QB is expendable for a first, no questions asked. After that it's something to ponder...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Quote:
How would it be smart to trade a homeboy that wants to play and excel for us?
2 words for you:
Charlie Frye
Personally, I am not 100% sold on either guy we have at QB, and am all for keeping both of them until it gets sorted out. I am not sold on Quinn based on 1 game against the worst defense in the league, and Anderson's performance last season doesn't fill me with loads of confidence either.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Charlie Frye is not BQ and vice verse.......as a whole, the homeboy part is but a small part of the equation.
I feel that it is not necessary to dump the talent that has been amassed thus far and start over just because of Jeanie Mangini Mangenious EM being the new coach of the franchise. I'd hate like hell to start over with yet another new QB, not knowing fully about Quinn but knowing that DA is inconsistent and has displayed that he always will be. Hell, sign K Warner to a lucrative one year deal for all the hell I care but Quinn has to be given a fair shake.
Too many times of mixing the recipe wrong and having to start over from scratch....there is no need to throw it out. Get a slotted spoon and scoop out the onions and keep the fire under the pot.......don't put it out.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 403
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 403 |
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I can read, quit acting like an ass. I don't care what the price -- we don't know what BQ has yet, and if we trade him, we don't have a QB and we'll never know.
Sorry, but if it were to happen, someone other than DA better be starting. Seriously, I'm quite sick of the DA experiment.
Had your superstar reciever caught all those balls thrown perfectly to him, everyone would be talking quite differently about DA right now.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"If the Browns are "smart"
Sorry but I think you have categorized yourself exempt on that subject matter.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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