DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kokinis says team in good shape entering Combine talent search

Nice Catch.. I would hope it ends up as either feature vid on the main site or at least on NFL.coms video library.

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The "data" shows that Mangini had 2 out of 3 winning seasons The "data" shows that there isn't ONE player that has come out and said THE FIRST WORD negatively about him as a coach

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Wrong.

There haven't been 2 players to say a negative word. One who did was Brett Favor.

Cracks me up what some people call valid sources of information.. Geez,,, Radio Talk Shows.. I happened to catch a few minutes of a rerun of "All Bets are Off" with Bruce Drennan on STO the other night. (don't ask me why I had it on, it was late, I was tired)

Anyway, there was this caller,, his name was Hiram. I remember Hiram calling in to the old Drennan show when he was on the radio. It's the same people over and over again. Constantantly calling in complaining about the same stuff..

This particular evening, Hiram was complaining about Eric Wedge.. I was very happy that Drennan put him in his place on a few things..

But the point is, if the only place you get your information on the Browns is from Call in Radio shows,, then your a fool. It's that simple.

It's like taking a steady dose of Rush Limbaugh... Here's a little tidbit of info for you all on our buddy Rush. He used to go by the name of Jeff Christi when he was on WIXY or was it WIXZ radio in McKeesport PA. He was a fast talking DJ playing stacks of wax... that I believe was in the 60's sometime.. true story.

The mouthpiece of all things Republican was a fast talking, record spinning DJ. Cracks me up.

Wow, how did I miss that? I didn't see that, but I did see where Favre sid he enjoyed working with Gini in his retirement statement....so maybe he had a change of heart

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The mouthpiece of all things Republican was a fast talking, record spinning DJ. Cracks me up.

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So?

This particular evening, Hiram was complaining about Eric Wedge.. I was very happy that Drennan put him in his place on a few things..

Oh don't tell me U like Eric Wedge...
There are several things I question about WEDGE..one in particular is that he doesn't seem to like players who have strong personalities...

"I'd like to know how much input Mangini had on the Jets' past three drafts."

Just how much power would be afforded a VERY YOUNG, First Time HC who had ONE YEAR Experience of being the Defensive Coordinator. I don't think he's in the driver seat to demand POWER - I think he was given most power for who to keep on the Final Roster. But in the draft room - not really knowing how their Scouting department is set up. I just don't see Mangini having too much power.

I'm sure he reviewed their team and existing roster and put in his shopping list.

In other words...I just don't see him making a pick like Gohlston. Further proof that I don't think he had that kind of power and specifically did not pick Gohlston was the fact that he didn't play Gohlston. If he had his seal of APPROVAL on him...he darn well would have played him. If anything I see possibly he was strongly against that pick and when over ridden - as camp showed all the reasons why Mangini didn't like the pick he simply defied the FO and didn't play him.

Just a guess though

"go ahead and keep kidding yourselves into thinking were on a level playing field and will not be at a dis advantage come FA and the draft"

Diam just cause I (maybe others can't speak for them) say we are ready doesn't mean we are as good as it would be (as in 2010 after they will all be here a year) you keep thinking that and all is black n white. Diam is the only one who gets it. I get it. What I'm saying is they have done all that they can with what they got as tools (film) to ready themselves in this endeavor and able to come up with some sort of Game Plan.

You are stating the obvious...and I agree. Next year will be a heck of a lot more smoother and way less "CRAMMING" in the preparations needed. But don't mistake me not putting my head in my hands and labeling this as a "CRISIS" as not recognizing this fact.

What I am saying is they have done now all that possibly they could do. And are ready to move forward. Never, Never did I say its as good as if they were all here for a year and experienced the players hands on to add to their year end evaluations.

But there is a state of continuity. Mangini is not looking to start this thing "ALL OVER" again. He wishes to take what we got and continue building.

Kokinis has a gift on the Pro Level assessments and can give a good reading as well for what we have here.

We have 10 College Scouts and 5 Pro-Personnel guys working for Kokinis.

And after the FA/NFL board is done they will all turn their attentions to the draft even Kokinis did this with the Ravens. Come draft time all got involved.

As stated and I'm being real here...for some reason if I don't look at the glass half empty like you usually do then I can't be realistic in my opinion. But the real part is Now is not the time to install big time Change in this department. The format will stay the same which for most new Regimes that would create confusion as most will not fire the existing staff cause they have been doing the work and its their time of year. After the draft these guys take a deep breath and time off. Well thats when these new regimes will make more fires and hires to structure it more with "THEIR" guys. But getting their guys just is impossible. Its like hiring an asst. coach from another team right at Play off time. They hold off and wait till Playoffs are over. Well this is PLAYOFF time for the Personnel department.

The guys we laid off??? Had to be some Loyalty issues I would Guess (and its just a guess). Obviously they thought it would hurt us more than help having them here.

Will be SMOOTHER in 2010...without a doubt. Just cause I choose not to panic about it does not make you right and me wrong. WHY? Cause there is nothing more that we can do about it but do all that we can in these couple of months. Why must we take an OH NO attitude. It is what it is. I think these guys have done all that they possibly can as in they have been on it 24/7 even if the MEDIA is upset with them cause they won't come out of their caves to give them some info.

They have some advantages.
1. kept the existing coaches here as long as possible for their feedback.
2. Have close ties with RAC in any intangible aspects of individuals.
3. Have a lot of young staff members with NFL experience burning the midnight oil.
4. Have a HC who has done this before and won't make the same mistakes as the first go round.
5. Similarities in Schemes so that personnel overhaul is not necessary.

Advantages? not on an existing regime...but on all other new regimes including the ones that we had brought in here in the past.

Look I have always looked at it with the Glass Half Full and you always Half Empty.

Its who we are. More important its who we choose to be. Me choosing to dwell on the positives does not mean you are Incorrect with the negatives. But you think that we are like Ostriches for not agreeing with you that its a "Crisis" situation as you seem to present it at. Is it Important...Not Important. You know what it is... Irrelevant only cause it is what it is and there is nothing we can do about it. All we can hope for is that they do the best possible job afforded to them.

And right now I am at ease cause I see them doing what they need to be to get as "READY" as possibly they can be.

Next year LIGHT YEARS???? Definitely better - I'm really not quite that sure of light years. And that is comparing it to themselves. Who knows if its better or worse than the DISUNITY that we had regarding Coaching Staff and Personnel Staff clearly we were not on the same page. In that regard even at a disadvantage in some areas we might be ahead of the game

Just another drop into my half filled cup

Before I get to U ....

Peenie ... were not at a dis-advantage at all when it comes to talent ... were ready to win .. and win now .. Jeannie walked into a DREAM SITUATION ... best spot for a new head coach in the last decade other than Tomlin to Pitt or Parcells to the Jets 7 or 8 years ago ..

WE HAVE LOTS OF TALENT ...

tabber

Thats the first time u ever articulated EVEN SLIGHTLY that we will not be where the rest of the league is ... FIRST TIME .. me on the other hand .. i've said many times THIS IS NOT A CRISIS ... MANY MANY TIMES ..

I have also said that I have no probs with the letting go of the staff members and I have no clue why .. but ITS FINE .. I also said that we were making the right move NOT HIRING ANYONE NOW AS A STOP GAP ...

I also used the phrase that we will NOT BE LIKE CHICKENS RUNNING AROUND WITH THERE HEADS CHOPPED OFF ...

so your way over exxegarating my positon and i have POSTS TO SHOW IT ... U on the other hand have never articulated that we are behind ...

and as usual we agree ... i am fine with where we are .... SAID THAT IN MY FIRST EVER POST ON THIS SUBJECT ... way back when ... its the BEST WE COULD EXPECT WITH THE TRANSITION ....

I also said in that post what my INTENT was not to poo poo anythng or anyone or to say were in bad shape and will be making tottaly un informed decisions cause of the regime change ... MY SOLE INTENT WAS TO POINT OUT THAT WE WOULD BE BEHIND FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN THE TRANSITION WE WERE GOING THROUGH ... and most did not want to aknowledge it and acted like we were going to be in great shape and not miss a beat ... not U ... I KNOW U GET IT ... but bro .. until this very post u have not even come close to showing the point of vies u just articulated ...

so quit trying to act like I;m some right wing view and your view is down the middle .. where from day 1, I MY posts have clearly showed I'm in the middle (as U JUST STATED FOR THE FIRST TIME) ...

and I get the continuity in D SCHEMES ... thats good . that will help alot more in the teams transition on the filed than in helping us solely on the talent aquiring aspect for this year (maybe that was my mistake .. maybe I did not articulate that ALL I AM TALKING ABOUT now is that we are behind IN THIS YEARS TALENT AQUISITION PHASE OF THE PROCCESS) we have no clue about the O schemes at this point unless your privy to some info were not ...

also we have NO CLUE how much input RAC has had so far .... all we know of is ONE DINNER and that rAC told jeannie he needs to make his own evaluations and draw his own conclusions from what he sees ...

I also know that RAC has had an operation as was seriously considering going to ND ... he just told Wies a week ago he was not interested ...

so how much time and input hes given to jeannie ... I havbe no clue .. i do agree anything he does is a PLUS ...

at the end of the day bro .. we've done all we can .. but we both know WITHOUT THE REGIME change we would be in better shape STRICLTY for this years talent gathering phase than we will be with the regime change .. and that NEXT YEAR we will be WAY WAY AHEAD of where were at now ...

thats all i was ever trying to get across to those that just think we won't even miss a beat ...

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Oh don't tell me U like Eric Wedge...
There are several things I question about WEDGE..one in particular is that he doesn't seem to like players who have strong personalities...

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I really don't care one way or the other about Wedge.. it's just that this guy Hiram is someone that thinks things without knowledge.. and if he thinks it, he feels it must be true... Drennan kinda put it to him and was basically just logical.

I'm not a HUGE baseball fan. But I'm always happy to hear that the Indians are doing well..

"so quit trying to act like I;m some right wing view and your view is down the middle ."

you had me till you said this First off I don't want to be the Left Wing view So I'm the Right Wing view and you are the Left.

I thought I clearly said I've always been a Glass Half Full type of guy and YOU a Glass half Empty...its who we are. Where do you get off portraying that as me trying to say I'm balanced and you are at the extreme spectrum. You are wrong in that portrayal of me. I couldn't have been more fair.

"I also know that RAC has had an operation as was seriously considering going to ND"

Actually I believe the Chiefs are asking him to be a consultant and we are asking the same thing...of course after he heals up from his Surgery.

But as usually for the most part we both get it just present it in our Half glass Spectrums that we hold. Just a note every time you claim that your view is realistic that would mean my view is not - even if you don't say it. But negative is not REALISTIC just another perspective thats all

JMHO

You two are REALISTICALLY entertaining the hell out of me.

Actually bro were worse than left or right .. were moderates .... as far off as our views seem to be when were debating ... our thoughts are usually about 98% the same ... were just arguing the extremes for that 2% .. but at least we entertain ddub .. and that makes it all worth it ..

this is just another case of the abov e.. our thoughts are pretty much the same .. yet reading the thread you'd think were polar opposites ...

and i agree were half full/half empty ...... actually a better description would be that U automatically assume the best and point out the positives while I like them to prove things and point out both sides ... ..

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this is just another case of the abov e.. our thoughts are pretty much the same .. yet reading the thread you'd think were polar opposites ...

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And that's what was so entertaining.

In the end I think eotab summed it all up the best although his last post was the first time I'd seen anyone acknowledge that you had a valid point. And it is valid.

Although Koke is a pro personel evaluator, when he evaluated our guys it was to game plan against us and/or to see how they would fit in Rex Ryan's defense or Cam's offense in case any of our guys became FA's and could be of possible use to the Rats in their schemes. He did not evaluate them to see how they would fit into a Mangini/Ryan defense or a Dabol offense as neither of those had existed yet.

From that perspective he was starting from scratch. It's not like he didn't know our guys, but he'd never looked at them in that light before. From that perspective it's like starting over. So even though they had a head start in starting from scratch it was/is a monumental task.

Those who think the evaluation is merely a matter of looking at a few tapes of the players and it's done in a week are kidding themselves as to just how serious these guys take this game and the building of a roster. They are also over valuing the evaluations of our team that our new GM and HC did from the perspective of their previous jobs. No, they are not total rookies, but until they were hired here they'd never looked at the Browns in the way their new jobs require them to do. They say they're done. But they ain't done.

This will be an ongoing process up until the week before the first regular season game. They are going to make some mistakes in letting some guys go whom they should have kept and keep some they should have let go. But that's understandable given the regime change and the timetable to which they must adhere. Other teams who have not changed GM's, Head Coaches, Coordinators and the majority of their assistants have none of this to deal with. They are light years ahead of the Browns in their respective roster evaluations.

And none of that even touches on the Draft which is fast approaching. Our own roster evaluations have taken huge chunks of time out of the time we would have normally spent evaluating for the Draft. We are behind in that regard as well. Koke and Mangini weren't evaluating the draft from the perspecitive of fitting draft picks into the Browns roster while in their previous jobs. Night and day. To think otherwise is to ignore the complexity of the decisions they must make and the dire importance of getting them right


And to those who think all this is merely a game to them like fantasy football and this is just business as usual and they're not in the midst of a terriffic scramble to catch up on this season, (all the while knowing they never will), are lacking in the understanding of just how serious this is to the organization and how important it is to the men who run it. This is BIG business. These guys eat, sleep and breathe this team and are dealing with issues that we don't even know exist.

It's easy to live on this board, watch the games on Sundays and have opinions on every issue we do know about. But we don't know the half of it.

I haven't said anything you or 'tabber haven't said already. I kinda wish I'd have joined in on this discussion much earlier. But since the season has been over, and in the midst of the new hirings, this board was so full of strong opinions based on nothing (or at best a lack of information), arguements that couldn't be won but argued anyways and loving or hating certain hirings with no actual knowledge of the personel involved that even though I read evey post every day I've abstained from posting my opininons for fear of getting banned for pointing out all the stupidity.

Pssst ... don't forget evaluating the structure of the org. ... evaluating the people in the structure .... hiring a coaching staff .... coming up with an O and D philosophy .... evaluating the scouting dept. and the scouts in it ...

and a few other odds and ends ....

Yeah, I was trying to keep my post short by addressing only one or two issues. It seems to be settled somewhat by your conversation with eo. I love it when you two go at it. Something good always comes from it above and beyond the entertainment value.

I think you're right too that this is not the end of the world but we do have to temper our expectations on this offseason due to all the "new regime" issues they are dealing with.

Here ya' go Tabber...Mizz's DC is now our LB Coach...

I'd LOVE to hear what he says about William Moore...HOW does this dude go from Top 20 to 3rd round???

The following iss the press release issued by the Browns on the hiring of their new linebackers coach:

Browns Hire Eberflus as Linebackers Coach

The Cleveland Browns announced the hiring of Matt Eberflus as Linebackers coach today.

Eberflus joins the Browns after spending the last eight years at the University of Missouri, where he most recently served as the Tigers’ Associate Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator/Safeties Coach. Last season, he capped his tenure at the school by helping the Tigers to a Big 12 North Division championship and a victory over Northwestern in the Valero Alamo Bowl.

Eberflus broke into the coaching ranks at the University of Toledo as a Graduate Assistant in 1992. He then worked on the Toledo staff as a Recruiting Coordinator (1994-95), Outside Safeties Coach (1994-98) and then Defensive Backs Coach (1999-00). In 2000, Eberflus' secondary helped the Toledo defense record 15 interceptions and 16 fumble recoveries, en route to posting the nation’s best turnover margin.

Eberflus was a four-year letter winner and a three-year starter at linebacker for Toledo, earning first team All-Conference honors his junior and senior seasons. A captain his senior year, he led Toledo in tackles his last two seasons, making 89 stops in 1990 and 138 in 1991. He received the Nicholson Trophy as a senior for contributing the most toward the success of the team. In February 2004, Eberflus was inducted into the Toledo Athletic Hall of Fame.

Eberflus earned a bachelor of education degree in 1993. Matt and his wife Kelly, who is originally from Cleveland, have two daughters, Grace and Giada