DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns to let S. Jones and others test FA

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There is a sense that Lerner is counting on Eric Mangini to be his O'Neill, the hard-driving coach who took his franchise from utter mediocrity to an elite level. Lerner is a revered name among soccer circles in Europe for what he has done with Aston Villa.

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If Mangini is Lerners O'Neill for the Browns, Lerner will be a Revered name among Browns fans,, that's for sure.

Well, IMO.....Jones and Pool are decent, but not great.....however, there really isn't anything better in FA....and doesn't appear to be much in the draft....I think they could be alot better than some people think if we could just for one season keep everyone on the field.....it seems that we are always missing someone somewhere....... ....I say try and re-sign him for about the same, if he signs, fine...if not.....fine.....

I don't know if i would pay him what we have been paying him.

He is a dime a dozen safety....he is a middle 1/3 safety, edging towards the bottom 1/3.

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I say try and re-sign him for about the same, if he signs, fine...if not.....fine.....

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that's kinda what Pluto is saying also...

"We should bring Jones back.."

And then you go and list some Pros n Cons.

Well lets just say Mangini, Kokinis and Me all agree with your List.

I don't think that is what is being questioned here. The entire question is AT WHAT COST? and HOW RARE A TALENT is Jones?

Cost...not too much is the assessment and that is why we are letting him walk but remember we state "TEST" the FA market. Cause maybe nobody else is going to view him at those cost. In that case maybe we still sign him???

How Rare...sorry this is where there is a wide gap from his camp on Mangini. They actually consider him a Pro-Bowl Safety and in reality he is just very average. Actually I think he has the worst HIPS in our entire Safety group and I'm including SORENSON there. I like his Run D...and if we were in the Big 10 maybe that would mean a lot more. But he CANNOT COVER a TE and every year more n more Pass Catching TE's come into the NFL.

I'm just laying odds here...first week of FA. Leonhart becomes a Brown.

I'm hoping William Moore is an option for us at #36 among many others.

JMHO

The Pool-Jones combo hasn´t and won´t work...they are too similar S...both are suspect in coverage with occasional big plays and like the big hit...Jones has played better than Pool but he is a FA now. Move Pool to SS and get a coverage-FS in here...not much out there in draft and FA....I´d try Mike Brown from CHI as a vet stopgap option...in house option: I´d really think hard about moving McDonald to FS....he has the brains for the position and has played there in College too....we would be forced to draft a CB high though in this scenario AND overpay for some stop gap #2 guy like Greer, Bodden, Buchanon, Goodman, McFadden or Eric Green etc

McDonald doesn't have the size to play safety IMO.

I agree with Caldawg & Shep. Somebody will be there. Get strong up the middle like baseball. Too be honest, SJ is OK, but the bar isn't set overly high yet, and stats say we leak in the secondary. Think we will be tougher if we get more rush calls and help up front. Man-Genie gonna have to be aggressive with this D which has been coached complacently and plays too often to too low a level of pressure. A knockdown safety would help a bunch if we took away more deep threats and got some CB help on at least one side. SJ is not worth a tag type of money, but that's me own opinion.

seriously??

Are you sure its not LionHeart?

whatever happened with huff in oakland? any chance ryan brings him in here to play centerfield and move pool to SS?

i think he got benched last year, dunno whats up with him? just a thought.

What happened? He sucks? Huf busted and got replaced by a rookie UDFA....don´t think his ex-DC who benched him wants him on his new team

it didn't make a lot of sense to me, but i wasn't watching the raiders much the last couple years. stat wise he looks pretty good in 2007 then gets benched the next year.

was hoping somebody saw the kid play who knew what was going on with him. seems like i had read somewhere he had been playing SS and would have been better off as a FS. seeing as how we have two guys who are suited for SS maybe a player like that would be worth a look.

Jones is okay if signed for the right money.
Franchised he is paid the average of the top 5 safeties and he doesn't play to that level.
There is something missing from his game..

He is better than some maybe most, and he is able to be there every Sunday. My point was based on Jones wanting and expecting top money and I don't see him as being a top money guy. We can not assign big bucks to Jones. We have many needs. He is not a premium player and we can't pay a premium for average SS.

How do you all know he wants top money? Where is the link to that report?

Who knows what Jones wants- probably like anyone else as much as he can get
For middle of the pack safety money, i am fine with keeping him. I'm glad we did not franchise him.
I bet the falcons have a decent chance at signing him, i think they are letting their safety walk. Thats my prediction and speculation.

Well, he obviously wants more money, and statements have been made suggesting he is a Pro-Bowl caliber player.

Anybody care to offer a realistic assessment of Josh Cribbs' possibilities at Safety? I like his kamikaze attitude, as a former QB he should have some ability to read the play. BUT, sfaik he has never been asked to cover a receiver, which is what we really need right now, a third run-stuffing safety is not IMO a step forward.

Is the Cribbs-at-Safety talk maybe just leverage on Jones? Or something that just might work?

Two of his four years of playing... He has had pro-bowl numbers.... So I guess he just may want a nice paycheck. Especially since its the not for long league.... Can't say I can blame him for wanting more than his first contract... just like I can't blame Cribbs for wanting another contract after he just signed an extension just two years ago.

Forget he was a former Bulldog..I had heard ( a while back)he will want top money..he's not worth it..

I think Jones could have been an amazing safety had he not injured his knee rookie year. Just never seemed the same. He did have a couple of pretty good seasons but they could have been great. One thing I don't like about him is that he has poor hands. Over the past couple years I have seen him drop more easy interceptions than he caught.

I have thought for a while now that Jones and Pool were being mis-used. Pool is a much better cover safety than Pool (in a pinch we have even used him at corner). So why when the two are on the field does Jones always end up covering the TE? Pool would be much better suited for that role IMO.

"they are too similar S...both are suspect in coverage with occasional big plays and like the big hit"

Just a note...Pool is so bad in coverage that he's used as a CB if we came down to it because of injuries. For a safety he is not bad at all.

I agree with moving him to SS...actually that is the position that we drafted him for originally but Sean Jones was basically a SS or nothing at all so we moved the more athletic Pool to FS but his natural position is SS which he showed when Jones got injured.

My first thought on the McD comment was one of these But after some thought if we draft Jenkins and not for the FS spot (which could be his best position) but for starting CB - I can see that move.

Oh and lets not forget Cribbs...lol after all he wants to be a 10 mil per season player maybe he should get a starting job somewhere first.

JMHO

Shopping season for NFL free agents always a favorite time for the Cleveland Browns
by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter
Wednesday February 25, 2009, 9:57 PM


CLEVELAND -- Free agency has been an irresistible allure to NFL teams such as the Browns. It is the apple in pro football's Garden of Eden.

The pressure to catch up to more talented rivals is always present. Plus, every time a management regime changes, the new one views free agency as the first chance to stamp its personality on the team.

For coach Eric Mangini, it's a chance to bring in players familiar with his style and system. Bill Parcells used to call them "my guys."

For General Manager George Kokinis, it's a chance to revisit his comfort zone as the former pro personnel director of the Baltimore Ravens. His "book" on pro players was a key selling point in getting the GM job.

Another season of NFL free agency kicks off at 12:01 Friday morning. How active will be the Browns? If history is a guide, they will be very active.

TOP SEVEN BROWNS SIGNINGS
1. PK Phil Dawson, 1999 : Lone remaining player from the expansion season, he is rewriting the team record book and can arguably be called the franchise's all-time greatest kicker, Lou Groza notwithstanding.
2. DL Orpheus Roye, 2000: In eight seasons, he started at left tackle and right tackle in a 4-3, and left end and right end in a 3-4. Was never the defense's best player, but always it's most consistent.
3. OT Ryan Tucker, 2002: A stalwart his first two seasons, he began suffering injuries in '04 and had only one 16-game season since. The former position coach called him "the best we've got," including Joe Thomas.
4. OG Eric Steinbach, 2007: A solid, versatile pro who gets the most out of his lanky frame and is not the conventional mauler most teams look for at the position.
5. RB Jamal Lewis, 2007: In 20-20 hindsight, maybe the Browns should have been one-and-done with him after his first season and looked for younger legs.
6. (tie) P Dave Zastudil, 2006: His 44.0-yard gross average over three years is a franchise record. His 2008 was one of the best years a Browns punter ever had.
P Chris Gardocki, 1999: In five years, his 486 punts rank second all time for the Browns, and his gross average is third-best. Oh, yeah, never had a punt blocked.

BROWNS SIGNINGS SINCE 1999
Phil Savage Era
2008: 3
2007: 7
2006: 8
2005: 7
Butch Davis Era
2004: 5
2003: 1
2002: 6
2001: 8
Dwight Clark Era
2000: 8
1999: 16
-- Tony Grossi


Over their three previous regimes, the Browns signed 68 players in free agency. That's an average of almost seven per year. That number falls to 5.7 when you discount the start-up season of 1999, when the Browns filled up their expansion roster with 16 free-agent signings.

Phil Savage and Romeo Crennel -- the immediate predecessors to Kokinis and Mangini -- signed 25 players in four seasons of free agency. (Shaun Rogers and Corey Williams arrived via trade.) Only nine remain on the roster and one is Donte Stallworth.

Nary a season went by that Savage, also formerly of Baltimore, hit up his former team in free agency. In 2005, Savage signed cornerback Gary Baxter and punter Kyle Richardson. In 2006, he signed tight end Darnell Dinkins and punter Dave Zastudil. In 2007, he signed running back Jamal Lewis.

The latest crop of Ravens free agents this year includes linebackers Ray Lewis and Bart Scott (who almost signed with the Browns in 2006), center Jason Brown and safety Jim Leonhard. But the Browns will have competition for Ravens this year from Jets, because coach Rex Ryan was Baltimore's most recent defensive coordinator, and the Broncos, who hired Mike Nolan, another former Baltimore coordinator, to run their defense.

"That [Ravens] tree is all over the place now," Baltimore GM Ozzie Newsome said at the NFL combine last week. "So we're very aware of that. They have a vast knowledge of our players. But whoever we want to keep, we try to keep, and we realize we can't keep them all."

Mangini has a few free agents back at the Jets from which to choose -- linebackers Eric Barton and Cody Spencer, and defensive back Hank Poteat.

Look for Mangini's coordinators to call on free agents from their former teams, too. Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll goes back with Mangini to the Jets and Patriots, defensive coordinator Rob Ryan came directly from Oakland but also coached with the Patriots, and special teams coordinator Brad Seely was also with the Patriots.

Mangini also has expressed interest in Giants running back Derrick Ward.

At the combine, Mangini said he didn't expect to be overly aggressive in the first week of free agency, which usually is when the most sought-after and most expensive players are signed.

"I don't think that's going to be where we spend a lot of time," Mangini said. "I'm not necessarily ruling it out, but I don't think that's where we're going to be as active. The key thing is finding the right guys."

As free agency starts, the Browns also have to keep their eyes on their own players whose contracts expire. They have 13 free agents, including safety Sean Jones.

Mangini and Kokinis have said they're willing to let the market dictate whether any of their free agents are re-signed.

I think I saw Ward resigned with the Giants.

j/c

Dolphins | G. Wilson agrees to terms
Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:16:20 -0800

Alex Marvez, of FOXSports.com, reports the Miami Dolphins have agreed to terms with free-agent S Gibril Wilson (Raiders). Terms of the deal are not yet available.

www.KFFL.com

Wilson is someone I thought we might try to go after. Oh well.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of money his contract was for.

My bad...I saw a clip on ESPN and thought it was Ward..thats a good thing..

I thought players couldn't even talk to other teams until tomorrow? How is he at terms already?

"Dolphins | G. Wilson agrees to terms
Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:16:20 -0800
Alex Marvez, of FOXSports.com, reports the Miami Dolphins have agreed to terms with free-agent S Gibril Wilson (Raiders). Terms of the deal are not yet available."

At first I'm like HUH!!! Thats tampering. Then I realized that Gbril was released by the Raiders making him a negoatiable FA immediately.

Darn this was one notable I wish we made a play on. Maybe too expensive we'll see what the offer ends up being.

I still say we will go hard at Sanders (James) of the Pats...young up n comer who played his rookie year with Mangini.

JMHO

Sean Jones has not signed with anyone --- yet.

What happens if he does? Do we go after Jim Leonhard the safety from the Ravens?

Leonhard is 5''8" 186lbs. Jones is 6'1" 220. And we need to stop the run.

Jones was a leader in the locker room. He is a young veteran. He is the kind of player you would want to invest in. I know he wanted big dollars but nobody is throwing that money toward him.

His value is highest with us at reasonable dollars. We didn't make a move at Dawkins. So what is our plan for safety?

I have a feeling we won't get Leonhard, considering he signed with the Jets.

Maybe we can trade DA to the Jets for him?