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Well sure that's what makes parents happy. That's kind of what has caused the gimme generation to come to where it has today. Parents are so busy trying to make themselves feel better they forget what's really good for their children....and that's to be independent and able to make their own way in the world. That's a parent's greatest and most difficult job. It's easy to make your kids happy, but that's not what it's all about. JMO.
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I want him and my mom to enjoy their retirement...not give their money to their kids.
For some people helping out their kids makes them happy. My inlaws give all of us kids $500 each at Christmas (plus presents) even though they are retired. They are not wealthy (my father-in-law always worked multiple jobs) but they want to see us enjoy the fruits of their labor. They feel we will get their money anyway, so why not be hear to see us use it?
That is EXACTLY what my dad has told me multiple times, practically word for word. Is that you, dad? 
I do understand your (and his) point, but for some reason it still makes me uncomfortable. Maybe it has more to do with pride for me...I dunno.
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Well sure that's what makes parents happy. That's kind of what has caused the gimme generation to come to where it has today. Parents are so busy trying to make themselves feel better they forget what's really good for their children....and that's to be independent and able to make their own way in the world. That's a parent's greatest and most difficult job. It's easy to make your kids happy, but that's not what it's all about. JMO.
my kids certainly don't fall into that category....they learned that at the age of 16, that if they wanted "fun" money, they would have to go out and get a job....and that's what they did.
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2nd String
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The days of manufacturing are over. People that care about taking care of themselves, their families, and the country, will go to college and get degrees. People that don't go to college are a burden on society.
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1st String
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Is this somthing he said? or how it is? ...just asking my friend.
There is a lot of stuff being misconstrued here. here is the transcript of that part.
" The third challenge we must address is the urgent need to expand the promise of education in America.
In a global economy, where the most valuable skill you can sell is your knowledge, a good education is no longer just a pathway to opportunity. It is a prerequisite.
Right now, three-quarters of the fastest-growing occupations require more than a high school diploma, and yet just over half of our citizens have that level of education. We have one of the highest high school dropout rates of any industrialized nation, and half of the students who begin college never finish.
This is a prescription for economic decline, because we know the countries that out-teach us today will out-compete us tomorrow. That is why it will be the goal of this administration to ensure that every child has access to a complete and competitive education, from the day they are born to the day they begin a career. That is a promise we have to make to the children of America.
Already, we've made a historic investment in education through the economic recovery plan. We've dramatically expanded early childhood education and will continue to improve its quality, because we know that the most formative learning comes in those first years of life.
We've made college affordable for nearly 7 million more students, 7 million. And we have provided the resources necessary to prevent painful cuts and teacher layoffs that would set back our children's progress.
But we know that our schools don't just need more resources; they need more reform. And that is why...
That is why this budget creates new teachers -- new incentives for teacher performance, pathways for advancement, and rewards for success. We'll invest -- we'll invest in innovative programs that are already helping schools meet high standards and close achievement gaps. And we will expand our commitment to charter schools.
It is...It is our responsibility as lawmakers and as educators to make this system work, but it is the responsibility of every citizen to participate in it.
So tonight I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training. This can be a community college or a four-year school, vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma.
And dropping out of high school is no longer an option. It's not just quitting on yourself; it's quitting on your country. And this country needs and values the talents of every American.
That's why -- that's why we will support -- we will provide the support necessary for all young Americans to complete college and meet a new goal: By 2020, America will once again have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world. That is a goal we can meet.
That's a goal we can meet.
Now -- now, I know that the price of tuition is higher than ever, which is why, if you are willing to volunteer in your neighborhood or give back to your community or serve your country, we will make sure that you can afford a higher education.
And to encourage a renewed spirit of national service for this and future generations, I ask Congress to send me the bipartisan legislation that bears the name of Sen. Orrin Hatch, as well as an American who has never stopped asking what he can do for his country, Sen. Edward Kennedy.
These education policies will open the doors of opportunity for our children, but it is up to us to ensure they walk through them.
In the end, there is no program or policy that can substitute for a parent, for a mother or father who will attend those parent-teacher conferences, or help with homework, or turn off the TV, put away the video games, read to their child.
I speak to you not just as a president, but as a father, when I say that responsibility for our children's education must begin at home. That is not a Democratic issue or a Republican issue. That's an American issue.
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The days of manufacturing are over. People that care about taking care of themselves, their families, and the country, will go to college and get degrees. People that don't go to college are a burden on society.
A lot of it has to do with the growing advent of the global market.
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People that don't go to college are a burden on society.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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There hasn't been this kind of Rock Star politics since Kennedy beat Nixon. But we're all ever so hopeful. :shiverwithglee:   
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I think we have the award winning post of the day.  This country would be screwed (moreso than it is) if everyone went to college.
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Dawg Talker
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In his speech he said everybody should have the right to attend college. However forking out 2,500 to help the middle class afford it still leaves the middle class at a disadvantage when compared to the rich, and the lower class. Lets not forget parents already had the Hope learning credit, AND the lifetime learning credits available.
I'm having trouble understanding what the problem with my statement was? I totally agree that the middle class is in dire straights when it comes to help for college. The hope credit can only be claimed once, and the lifetime learning credits is good for 2000$ a year per household. And if you claim one, you can't claim the other. So I think were coming at this from the same side GM.
There are no sacred cows.
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Hall of Famer
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The days of manufacturing are over. People that care about taking care of themselves, their families, and the country, will go to college and get degrees. People that don't go to college are a burden on society.
 Wow. College and success do not go hand in hand. I work with lots of people in the IT industry that are 10X smarter than I am and they never went to college. I have plenty of other successful friends that did not attend school either. I went to college, and aside from a piece of paper that shows I could do something for 4 years, I do not use anything that I learned.
College does open doors, but it does not guarantee success.
#gmstrong
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This country would be screwed (moreso than it is) if everyone went to college.
Sure it would, if we kept the same ideals. It's time to change our manufacturing base to something that feeds off of the intellectual base that we would be producing. Because as stated before, we can't (or won't) compete with developing countries for cheap manufacturing. Like I said before, new, more efficient energy production and medical development would be two great starting points. They're areas that are important already in the world, and the USA already has the companies and minds in place to increase their support.
Building a broad, intellectually driven, base of people in this country could push the next round of innovation and help this country stay on top of the global market.
There are no sacred cows.
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Very unrealistic for a multitude of reasons. Here in the real world, my statement stands. Everyone does not need, want, or belong in college.
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The hope credit can only be claimed once, and the lifetime learning credits is good for 2000$ a year per household. And if you claim one, you can't claim the other. So I think were coming at this from the same side GM.
You better explain that to B.O. then because he made a big deal about getting 2,500 per year (four years = 10,000) when a college student could already get 8,500) The point is that B.O. did the same thing thats been done for years (talk out of his backside) he is no more in touch with main stream america than Bush was. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Unrealistic doesn't mean impossible. It can be done if people are willing. If you'd be willing to open my eyes? Plus, the real world is over rated jules  I'm not satisfied with it, so I'll change it.
There are no sacred cows.
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It's a start GM, and I never said anything about Bush. I hope, as much as he talks about it, that this wont be the last of Obama's plan to make college something that doesn't require giving up an arm and a leg to do.
There are no sacred cows.
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Everyone does not need, want, or belong in college.
I never said that all people have to or should attend, only that everyone thats wants to, shouldn't be held back by money. Knowledge shouldn't have an exorbitant price on it.
There are no sacred cows.
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While you may have some valid ideas, your world might kind of suck, so many of us won't be willing to join. My very simple point was that everyone does not need to go to college. You can go off on whatever wild tangents you want to argue that point, but I'm kind of done with them now. 
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While you may have some valid ideas, your world might kind of suck, so many of us won't be willing to join.
You know what, I think I'll take that as a complement coming from you 
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My very simple point was that everyone does not need to go to college.
Which I agree with. So who says I was arguing it?
I was only pointing out that we can fill a hitherto unfilled and unrecognized niche in the coming global economy; that of the high-end future tech manufacturers based in energy and medicine. And one way to do that is to allow access to the knowledge to as many people that want it. It's their choice to schlep garbage, build houses, run wiring, etc. if they want to. But if they want to become a brain surgeon, they should be willing to try their hand at that type of education without a huge financial roadblock.
There are no sacred cows.
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You know what, I think I'll take that as a complement coming from you
Whatever makes you happy. 
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Which I agree with. So who says I was arguing it?
You did argue it, that's why we are playing this highly boring game. You have changed your stance though, so let's let this die now.
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It's their choice to schlep garbage, build houses, run wiring, etc. if they want to.
What a pompous, arrogant statement. What would you do if no one "schlepped" your garbage, or built your house, or wired it? You and your brain surgeon buddies would be living in the hospital or the street.
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But if they want to become a brain surgeon, they should be willing to try their hand at that type of education without a huge financial roadblock.
They should be able to "try their hand" at brain surgery? Who do they experiment on? Sorry, bud, there's a reason something like becoming a doctor takes 7 years AND a ton of money. It's to weed out the people that are "just trying their hand at it". You want somebody just trying their hand at it to work on you?
Also, someone mentioned, I don't think it was you but I might be wrong, that anyone that doesn't go to college is a burden on society. That is the second most arrogant and pompous statement I've heard in a long time, second only to your statement.
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What would you do if no one "schlepped" your garbage, or built your house, or wired it? You and your brain surgeon buddies would be living in the hospital or the street
No he wouldn't be because who would have built the hospital or wired it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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However, you wont be supporting others kids through college, and that's an important differentiation to make. It's not like welfare or social security in that you'll probably never see the money returned.
Hmmm, they are just going to pay $2500 of my utility bills per year? How am I going to see the money returned?
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You'll have a chance to claim the same amount as everyone else and recoup the money you put in.
No, I won't. I don't have kids. So, like I said, I'll be paying for YOURS to get an education. And, in case you didn't know, this isn't my job to pay for YOUR kid...it's yours.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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What would you do if no one "schlepped" your garbage, or built your house, or wired it? You and your brain surgeon buddies would be living in the hospital or the street
No he wouldn't be because who would have built the hospital or wired it?
Actually, as you laugh, you bring up a point that relates to mine very well. Without these "lesser" people that draft speaks of, where would we be? Well, we all would've tried our hand at brain surgery apparently.
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Legend
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Actually, as you laugh, you bring up a point that relates to mine very well. Without these "lesser" people that draft speaks of, where would we be? Well, we all would've tried our hand at brain surgery apparently.
Hmm,, the term "lesser" people bothers me. I don't care what a person does for a living. Dig Ditches, flip burgers at McDonalds, honeydip septic tanks, Supreme Court Justice, Doctor, Lawyer or indian Chief..
As long as what they do is legal, they pay thier taxes and commit no acts of violence or other crimes against humanity.... to me thier job doesn't define thier Status as "lesser' or not.
that Septic tank Dipper is doing a job that I don't want to even think about doing. That doctor is doing a job I'm not qualified for...
Given the chance, I bet neither would want my job either...
JMO
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's their choice to schlep garbage, build houses, run wiring, etc. if they want to.
Another funny thing about this statement is that these people that you mention can actually make a decent living, maybe even making more than some college graduates.
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Obama might not be doing everything that you or i agree with, but he has my vote of confidence on gettin us out of this mess.
I'm fairly confidant that our grandkids will look back and Obama will make FDR look like a small government conservative...
yebat' Putin
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It's their choice to schlep garbage, build houses, run wiring, etc. if they want to.
Another funny thing about this statement is that these people that you mention can actually make a decent living, maybe even making more than some college graduates.
Which was my point. Those are great paying jobs that you can raise a family on. My parents did it, their parents did it, etc. It wasn't meant to be pompous or arrogant. I apologize if it came off that way Just trying to back up my point that not everyone wants to or should go to college. Just that it should be available to people who want to.
There are no sacred cows.
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You have changed your stance though, so let's let this die now.
No, I disagree. And i wont drop it, because i didn't say it. You may have interpreted it that way, but it has never crossed my mind to make everyone go to college.
Sorry, Jules, that you find this boring
There are no sacred cows.
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It's their choice to schlep garbage, build houses, run wiring, etc. if they want to. But if they want to become a brain surgeon, they should be willing to try their hand at that type of education without a huge financial roadblock.
Sorry, that kind of education is extremely expensive... There are ways to get through it if you don't have a ton of money... those ways involve paying it back... and if you're a brain surgeon paying back a couple hundred grand in student loans shouldn't be all that hard over the next 20-30 years....
Success is not just for the rich, success is for the willing... those who are willing to make sacrifices, to work hard and to keep their nose clean...
Rich kids will always have an advantage.... isn't that why we all work hard? So our kids can have as many advantages as possible?
yebat' Putin
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They should be able to "try their hand" at brain surgery?
I never said that. Go back an reread please. I said they should be able to try their hand at getting an education to become one. No one can be a surgeon without passing boards, exams, tests, etc. There's a big difference between what I said, and what you said I said.
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Also, someone mentioned, I don't think it was you but I might be wrong, that anyone that doesn't go to college is a burden on society.
Nope, wasn't me.
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That is the second most arrogant and pompous statement I've heard in a long time, second only to your statement.
Sorry you feel that way, it honestly wasn't meant to offend. The jobs I listed were, intentionally, good paying well respected jobs that I owe my upbringing to. They're important jobs. Again, sorry to offend
There are no sacred cows.
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No, I won't. I don't have kids. So, like I said, I'll be paying for YOURS to get an education. And, in case you didn't know, this isn't my job to pay for YOUR kid...it's yours.
Well, firstly, I don't have kids either So I can relate in that aspect.
We can agree to disagree I guess in this aspect, although I think if you would go back we agree on many others.
There are no sacred cows.
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Sorry, that kind of education is extremely expensive... There are ways to get through it if you don't have a ton of money... those ways involve paying it back... and if you're a brain surgeon paying back a couple hundred grand in student loans shouldn't be all that hard over the next 20-30 years....
I never said it wasn't, I put "brain surgeon" because thats what popped into my head, you could easily replace it with "business administrator" and have the same effect.
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Success is not just for the rich, success is for the willing... those who are willing to make sacrifices, to work hard and to keep their nose clean...
Agreed, I'm an example of that. Work your butt off, do what you have to to get ahead, and take out so many loans that my credit is shot I'm just hope I don't get need to take out another in the near, say 5-10 years And you know what, I'll get through it. But just because you can get through it, doesn't mean it can't be made better.
There are no sacred cows.
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j/c Great thread! I needed a few laughs!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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At me? (I know you were just clickin )
There are no sacred cows.
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j/c
Great thread!
I needed a few laughs!
Thanks 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That's what I wonder, too. Can we? And, when did people lose the desire to take care of themselves?
Um....do you know what was done after the great depression to bring us out of the hole? lot of gov prgs were created(social security, food stamps etc) right now the economy being where it's at we NEED the gov to step in and do something....believe it or not we really are STILL going down...we need to stop that.....
LMAO, this is the type of ignorance that has gotten us where we are. What FDR did during the great depression is a lot of the reason we are snowballing toward socialism. He actually prolonged the depression with the things he did.
This kind of blind following and not understanding history is exactly why we are in the mess we are in.
Exactly. Government programs didn't get us out of the hole ... it kept us in one for over a decade. World War II is what got us out of the depression, because Americans finally had to band together, work hard, and fight for one common purpose.
And sold a lot of machinery to the war effort, both to our own government and abroad .... and factories started humming ...... the government borrowed money from ....... the ether ....... and its own citizens .... who bought war bonds with the same money the government was paying to buy the goods they were manufacturing ........
Federal spending in 1943 and 1944 was almost 44% of the entire US ecomony. Afte the war, factories continued humming along while creating housing and "stuff" for those returned home from the war ..... and for replacement of the "stuff" that was broken overseas as well. We became the world's industrial giant basically because we damn near bankrupted ourselves fighting the war following the great depression.
Right now, federal spending is about 25% of the entire economic output of this country. That's frightening ..... because our government is not only broke ...... it's bankrupt. Massive inflation is just around the corner at the rate we're printing "free" money .......
It's OK though .... because it was a good speech ........ 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The days of manufacturing are over. People that care about taking care of themselves, their families, and the country, will go to college and get degrees. People that don't go to college are a burden on society.
A lot of it has to do with the growing advent of the global market.
Maybe ... and maybe not.
"Big time" manufacturing might have hit a lull (in the US, and globally) ..... but only 2 years ago, we hit the all time high for manufacturing output in this country.
I know .... that goes against what everyone "knows" ......
Manufacturing jobs have been lost, due mainly to automation and computerization creating cost savings through a lower "workers per manufactured good" ratio. 30 years ago, it might have taken 25 workers to manufacture a product...... working mainly in a "hands on" capacity .... while today that number is probably less than half. (and most likely, 1/4 or less)
That's where jobs have been lost .... not because "we just don't manufacture anything in the US anymore".
By the way ..... China has had 6 straight months of manufacturing contraction. They are closing hard on their own recession ..... despite price controls, and wage controls .....
Oh .. and one final thought .....
We used to get a who lot of goods manufactured and/or assembled in Hong Kong. Now Hong Kong is part of China. The "made in Hong Kong" label has been replaced by "Made in China".
Just a few random thoughts running through my head as I read this thread.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Obamas "non' state of the union,
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