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That's a nice plan, but what if he gets hurt? Then no chance for a monster year.
If someone ponies up a good enough offer, ship him out.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Only way we do this is if we sign Laverneus Coles or some other player to fill that void.
We lose too much offensive firepower with Edwards gone to NOT add a respectable player in the process.
Pass rush is WAY more important than an inconsistent #1 WR who isn´t clutch (remember who made all those 3rd down grabs in 2007? Kellen and Joe)...you built inside out...pass rushers are so rare, you gotta take that deal if it´s out there...sign some stop gaps vet WR...there are some out there (Coles, Patten, trade for Holt)
Holy crap...We agree?!
I'd do this deal in an instant. It fills a great void for the Browns on defense, and we could focus on getting some inside linebackers, a safety and a couple linemen in the draft.
You guys are seriously overating Kiwi. He was a back up DE and mediocre LB at best.
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It’s a done deal. The St. Louis Rams have agreed to terms with cornerback Ron Bartell. It’s a four-year deal worth $28 million, including $13.6 million in guaranteed money.
Ron Bartell re-signs
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He played very good at end last year in the place of Osi. He would be a stud in a 3-4. That being said, I'm not a fan of this deal unless it's Osi and a 1st.
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We need a legit #1 reciever this season...
Why? The Steelers do quite well without a #1. Baltimore did quite well without a #1 too. Who says we need a #1.
I only ask this because I hear people on this board say, "we need at least one shutdown corner", "we need a franchise QB", "we need a #1 WR", "we need an every down back", "we need.....blah blah blah" to win a Super Bowl. I can start listing examples of teams that went deep into the playoffs by using role players at key positions. I'm not picking on you, though it sounds like it, I just don't get the fascination with building a team around "true #1" players.
Baltimore won it all with Trent Dilfer
Indianapolis won it all without an every down back
Pittsburgh won it all without a true #1 receiver, twice
New York won it all without at least one shutdown corner
New England won it all numerous times without even a #2 receiver (at least in my opinion)
New England went 18-0 without a RB on the field most of the time (Maroney was hurt)
Heck, tons of people were making fun of Pittsburgh's offensive line before and during the season. It was getting Ben killed.......but what did they end up winning?
Just saying, you don't need pro bowlers at every position to win it all.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I agree. It seems to me like the teams that win the Superbowl have one really good unit or one really good side to the ball while the other is sufficient. It also seems that, with the exception of the Colts, it's all about defense.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Exactly and that "special side" should be the defense with Cleveland.
In my opinion, forget about the high-octane passing offense we had two years ago. As good as we were, teams with an above average defense were able to stop us. We need a defense (and a running game).
We should be drafting defense first, O-line and a new RB second (see my sig). It feels like we've been trying to build a complete team.......just worry about the defense and the running game. We can find WR's anywhere.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Some of you guys make really laugh..so you think he´s a stud 34OLB but you still don´t like the deal?
Let´s see....1 more year of who knows which BE or at least 2 (with probable new contract after trade) years of a real #1 pass rusher at OLB?
Why would the Giants just give Kiwanuka away for nothing? You´d be happy with a 2nd for BE? That´s what Kiwi is worth...easy, if not more...
This trade would be a steal (and win-win for both) 1to1 let alone with ANY draft pick involved....
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If i'm Koke/Mangini and i was positive Kiwi could play OLB in a 3-4 i do that trade in heartbeat. Then sign Coles and draft a WR with one of those 2nd rnd picks.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
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an ideal situation would be an escalating additional pick for next year dependant on performance ala KW. that way we can all still root for braylon over there.  also, there is still DA who could be moved for a pick or a player. i think there are a lot of possibilities that don't include assuming the whole offense, and season would be tanked. the bottom line is the guy doesn't want to be here. it is really unlikely that he signs another contract in cleveland. maybe he will be worth more in the middle of next season, or next offseason, maybe not. if he's gettin yelled at all the time and worrying about his family getting abused, i wouldn't be surprised if he had a hard time picking up his mojo. in the end its kind of a "now or later" kind of thing, and i think its safer to take it now. kiwi is legit too. that guy can play, and you don't see opportunities to get young talented pass rushers like that every day.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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In my opinion, forget about the high-octane passing offense we had two years ago. As good as we were, teams with an above average defense were able to stop us.
Neither Baltimore nor Pittsburgh was in the AFC championship game because of their high octane offense... Building an offense to beat those defenses has to be about ball control, some power and some trickeration....
Then we have to build our defense to beat them 13-10.....
yebat' Putin
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I'm sorry for not being satisfied with getting a 3rd rounder and a guy who MIGHT be a stud OLB for someone who is one year removed from the best receiving season in Browns history.
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The Tennessee Titans reached agreement with free-agent WR Nate Washington on an undisclosed deal and with free-agent DT Jovan Haye on a four-year, $16 million contract. The team will have a press conference today to introduce both players to the media.
Washington had 40 receptions for 631 yards and three touchdowns for the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2008. Haye made 14 starts for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers last season.
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/02/titans-sign-wr-washington-dt-haye/
Looks like Washington is off the market, however that might affect us.
Last edited by MrDNA; 03/02/09 06:42 PM.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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The Tennessee Titans reached agreement with free-agent WR Nate Washington on an undisclosed deal and with free-agent DT Jovan Haye on a four-year, $16 million contract. The team will have a press conference today to introduce both players to the media.
Washington had 40 receptions for 631 yards and three touchdowns for the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2008. Haye made 14 starts for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers last season.
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/02/titans-sign-wr-washington-dt-haye/
Looks like Washington is off the market, however that might affect us.
It means we better hope Limas Sweed is a bust and Ward ages overnight.
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espn is reporting that housh is gonna sign with seattle.
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Random Rant....
I can;t believe free agency this year. Granted, this time of year, every year, teams overpay to pick up key pieces for their team. Teams consistently overpay for talented players (see Donte Stallworth) but typically, these are players with a certain pedigree....players who were well thought of out of college, had some good years, etc etc.
But this year....sweet fancy Moses...things are getting ridiculous.
I just read the Bartell of the Rams got a 7 million a year deal... 7 MILLION.... this guy is not an all pro...hell, he's likely not even all division, but he lands a deal like that?
The free agent signings this year are completely ridiculous. I've never been happier to see the Browns stay quiet.
Here's hoping that the league starts to rein in the financial horses a little bit- establish new rules on rookie contracts and keep the salary cap capped.
RANT OVER
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Go look at the MLB and NBA for crazy contracts. The NFL is almost small by comparison.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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And some of these same teams are probably leting folks go in the organization (firing them) for cost cutting reasons do to the economy. What a joke.
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
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Punch the difference is in the NBA and MLB the guys getting the huge contracts are guys that have proven themselves in the league. Guys that have produced before, not guys fresh out of college getting $61 million over 6 years with $32 million guaranteed like JaMarcus Russell did in 2007 or $57.5 million over 5 years with $30 million guaranteed like Jake Long did last year. JaMarcus Russell link Jake Long link
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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Houshmandzadeh heads West By John Clayton ESPN.com In what turned out to be a tougher decision than expected, wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh chose the Seattle Seahawks over the Minnesota Vikings and the Cincinnati Bengals on Monday afternoon, according to multiple sources. Sources told ESPN's Michael Smith the deal was worth more than $40 million for five years, with more than $15 million guaranteed. Though he had hoped to make his decision Sunday, Houshmandzadeh, pressured by Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer to stay in Cincinnati, and the Vikings to stay around the Minneapolis area during a visit, escaped from a Minneapolis hotel Sunday night, flew to Los Angeles and took Monday morning trying to make up his mind. He weighed offers from three teams along with their quarterbacks and their teams' chances of winning. The final decision was Seattle. The 31-year-old Houshmandzadeh was considered the wide receiver prize of free agency. He caught a combined 204 passes for 2,043 yards and 16 touchdowns over the past two seasons in Cincinnati. The 6-1, 189-pound receiver had a 90-catch season in 2006. He tied for the NFL receptions lead in 2007 with 112 catches and earned his first trip to the Pro Bowl. His departure in Cincinnati could mean Chad Johnson might have to stay in Cincinnati another season. Johnson tried to get traded from the Bengals before the 2008 season. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3947108 Looks like Crabtree is sliding....
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
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Poser
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We COULD franchise BE, Ammo, but is that a great value in terms of salary cap and what he would bring back? That's the question. Then again, being he would be playing on essentially a one year deal, you could expect him to put up monster numbers. It could very well happen if Gini and Coke feel that he is worth top WR money. The decision could very well be postponed until after the individual meetings next month to see where BE's head is as far as the regime change, new disciplinary approach, etc.
Tubby, BE's decision to move his charity work was all based on incidents that happened where he and his family were verbally abused at some charity events. I have defended him on this decision in the past and will continue to do so.
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Free-agent WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh has agreed to terms with the Seattle Seahawks.
The deal is for five years for $40 million, with $15 million guaranteed.
We are coming out pretty good in free agency without even signing anyone.
Andra Davis signs with a different team. And Scott, Housmanzadeh, Brown, Andews, and Washington all leave the division. Not bad.
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We need a legit #1 reciever this season...
Why? The Steelers do quite well without a #1. Baltimore did quite well without a #1 too.
Both of those teams have consistently had very solid, DEEP WR corps.
Do you need a stud #1? No. But if you don't have one, you'd better have a stable of reliable guys.
We have the worst WR unit in the NFL. It's the last place we need to lose talent at the moment. JMHO.
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Thanks for the memories Housh. You were total clutch over the middle and gave the Steelers secondary fits.
Always played hard no matter what our record was.
The flip side is,you are gonna be 32 this year and your YPC average is declining each year. I'm glad the "Hawks overpaid..
Now we can use that money elsewhere like o-line and another WR.
Thanks #84 for being a pro's pro.
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We COULD franchise BE, Ammo, but is that a great value in terms of salary cap and what he would bring back? That's the question. Then again, being he would be playing on essentially a one year deal, you could expect him to put up monster numbers. It could very well happen if Gini and Coke feel that he is worth top WR money. The decision could very well be postponed until after the individual meetings next month to see where BE's head is as far as the regime change, new disciplinary approach, etc.
Tubby, BE's decision to move his charity work was all based on incidents that happened where he and his family were verbally abused at some charity events. I have defended him on this decision in the past and will continue to do so.
I think the ball's in Braylon's court. If he wants to be here he's going to be signed to an extension soon, if not, we're gonna get picks for him.
If it happens, it's gonna blindside us. We won't see it coming because ManKok has such a tight lid on things...as it should be. Look at what happens when things leak (see: McDaniels and Cutler).
Last edited by Ammo; 03/02/09 09:38 PM.
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This is mostly speculation on my part, but imo if BE isn't receptive to a new deal when they meet in a couple of weeks then we will trade him prior to the draft. I say this because although I can see the logic in keeping him and tagging him next year, imo this FO is going to want guys who buy into their program long term, and want to be here. I just don't see EM and Coke as they type of FO who wants players here who don't want to be here.
I'll be shocked if he's here by the middle of April without a new contract..........and I'd be more shocked if he signed a new deal..lol.
I like the Giants deal, because it fills one of our 2 big needs in getting another OLB. Of course we will need a WR at that point, but I'll always take a trench guy over a perimeter player anyway. If this deal went down (and I would ask for their 2nd, because it's a lower pick) we would have 5 picks in the 1st 4 rounds........those are the money rounds where your supposed to be getting guys that are legitimate contributors to your team. Somebody mentioned we sucked picking in the 3rd round..lol...well they have, and that is a big reason we have sucked on the field. Even Phil really struggled with rounds 2-4, and you have to hit on a good percentage of those picks to be successful in this league. With 5 picks in those rounds we need to walk a way with a minimum of 3 starters (4 if the Gmen were to throw in a another 2nd for BE), and the other 2 need to be contributors this year as well.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Ward signs with Bucs. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/02/ward-signs-with-bucs/The Derrick Ward free agency tour has ended. And the final resting stop was Tampa. Per a league source, Ward has agreed to terms on a four-year, $17 million deal. He’ll earn $6 million guaranteed in the first year, $9.25 million over the first two, and $13 million over the first three. More to come.
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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that's a decent contract...i would have like the Browns make a little harder run at him
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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I don't like the idea of paying guaranteed money to any free agent running backs who will be 29 during the season.
I know Ward doesn't have much mileage on him, but still, age has to count for something.
If we want something younger and probably cheaper we can go after Kevin Jones or re-sign Jason Wright, both are similar backs to Ward.
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Legend
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Thanks for the memories Housh. You were total clutch over the middle and gave the Steelers secondary fits.
Always played hard no matter what our record was.
The flip side is,you are gonna be 32 this year and your YPC average is declining each year. I'm glad the "Hawks overpaid..
Now we can use that money elsewhere like o-line and another WR.
Thanks #84 for being a pro's pro.
Nobody cares about your tribute to a Bengal on our Browns board.
#gmstrong
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I could care less what anyone thinks about my input on T.J. What you should be worried about is if #17 brings the same professinalism and desire to the field that Housh brought.
Last time I checked,this was a FA thread. I don't need your approval PDawg to get my opinion across.
If you don't like it, too bad.
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Baltimore won it all with Trent Dilfer
Indianapolis won it all without an every down back
Pittsburgh won it all without a true #1 receiver, twice
New York won it all without at least one shutdown corner
New England won it all numerous times without even a #2 receiver (at least in my opinion)
New England went 18-0 without a RB on the field most of the time (Maroney was hurt)
Baltimore had a top 3 defense and a stud at RB.
The Giants had the NFL's best defense and a bona fide #1 in Burress. They also had a great rushing attack.
The first Steelers SB team had the NFL's best defense, an excellent 1-2 punch in the running game, and a guy who catches anything that comes his way.
The second Steelers SB team had the NFL's best defense again, a legit #1 in Santonio Holmes, and still had the guy who catches anything that comes his way.
The Colts SB team had arguably the best passer the NFL has seen in the last 30 years, two perennial Pro Bowl receivers, and a pretty good D, including defensive player of the year and a great pass rusher in Freeney.
The Pats had Brady to Moss. Before that, they were maybe the exception that disproves the rule, but they still had Brady, a solid WR corps, and a tough front seven.
All of these teams either had elite defenses, or very good defenses with elite passing attacks. The Browns have neither. Adding Kiwanuka won't make our defense elite, and it will get rid of the only offensive threat we have left on this team.
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Heck, tons of people were making fun of Pittsburgh's offensive line before and during the season. It was getting Ben killed.......but what did they end up winning?
Just saying, you don't need pro bowlers at every position to win it all.
Ben's line did get him killed all season. He's been sacked 139 times in the past three seasons. They also had a really good defense, and when he wasn't getting sacked, Ben was making some great passes to win games.
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ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- The Detroit Lions signed free-agent wide receiver Bryant Johnson to a three-year contract Monday, adding the former first-round draft pick to complement rising star Calvin Johnson.
Bryant Johnson had 45 receptions for 546 yards and three touchdowns last year, his only season with the San Francisco 49ers, after five seasons with the Arizona Cardinals. He has 255 receptions for 3,221 yards and 12 TDs in 93 career NFL games. Arizona drafted him out of Penn State with the 17th overall pick in the 2003 draft.
Calvin Johnson, in his second NFL season, caught 78 passes for 1,331 yards for the winless Lions in 2008.
Bryant Johnson
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Just a quick note on Bens 46 sacks
21 of them came in 4 games against the NFC East
15 in another 4 games against Balt(2) and Tenn and SD
36 sacks came in half the games....which means in the other 8 games...Ben was sacked 10 times. (78% of his sacks came in 8 games - 22 % in the other 8)
Eagles, Ravens, Titans, Giants, Cowboys...they sacked everyone they played against...and were 29 of the Steelers 46 sacks.
So yes...Steelers line had issues...but Im not sure it was a "talent" issue week in and week out as much as mental and matchups.
HACK
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pretty sure DA was already hurt but should have been benched sooner....quinn had broken finger on his throwing hand....and do i need to say anything about Dorsey or Gradkowski? those two guys are garbage
Hear ya there i can throw better passes in the muni lot, now i think about it i already have...
The Pieces Of The Browns Puzzle Is Falling Into Place And I Cant Wait Till Its Finally Finished ![[Linked Image from memberfiles.freewebs.com]](http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/56/56/46225656/photos/Garage-Pound/orange-puzzle-home.jpg)
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I don't see us trading Braylon, i realy don't. Mangini even said he would like to keep both of them, Winslow was expandable with his injuries and all. I don't think Mangini will trade both, just the simple fact because he already made his choice and that was Winslow. Just a speculation though, i don't know what the heck is going through there minds 
The Pieces Of The Browns Puzzle Is Falling Into Place And I Cant Wait Till Its Finally Finished
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Quote:
Just a quick note on Bens 46 sacks
21 of them came in 4 games against the NFC East
15 in another 4 games against Balt(2) and Tenn and SD
36 sacks came in half the games....which means in the other 8 games...Ben was sacked 10 times. (78% of his sacks came in 8 games - 22 % in the other 8)
Eagles, Ravens, Titans, Giants, Cowboys...they sacked everyone they played against...and were 29 of the Steelers 46 sacks.
So yes...Steelers line had issues...but Im not sure it was a "talent" issue week in and week out as much as mental and matchups.
HACK
Diam, where are you?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I'll be shocked if he's here by the middle of April without a new contract..........and I'd be more shocked if he signed a new deal..lol.
This will all boil down to what transpires when we meet with Edwards...And talk to his agent about the extension...These guys are well aware of what's transpired with Brey...One thing I DON'T do is let him go NOW for anything less than a 1st Round pick...
If even on Draft Day we get an offer of a 1st rounder...I TAKE IT...If not...We gotta hold onto him and use the Tag next off season and then move him...And hope that the new contract thing actually gets his head outta his butt...Anything less than a first rounder is not enuff for this kid...
Seattle has opened the door signing Housh...Crabtree will be there at 5...And he may very well be the pick regardless of what we do with Edwards...Beyond that...With Crabtree sittin' there at 5...We gotta pick up that ringing phone cause it's gonna be "The Senile One" in Al Davis...Guarantee ya' that Davis has Crabtree rated far and away as the #1 WR...And I'd bet we could get the 7 pick and the 40 pick...
Brown would then come into play...And so would a Maclin at 7...There's gonna be opportunity for us in this draft...And Edwards and Crabtree could very well play a HUGE part of it...There's teams in the 15-25 range that would love to have Brey...And we could replace him in THIS draft...
Also...We've talked to Coles...We could do alot worse than Maclin and Coles...Nicks and Coles...Heyward-Bey and Coles...Even a restructured Stallworth...
Also...Jabari Greer CB is coming for a visit today...We need to ink this dude and forget about Jenkins...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
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After sitting back for a couple days and getting over the depresion of not being able to spend someelses money, I'm somewhat glad the Browns are not going out signing or wasting millions on this years FA. I do think BE will be traded and if it's for K in NY, along with a draft pick or two i'll be happy, I do hope we position ourselfs draft day that if Curry goes before us we trade down and grab a couple extra picks in the 2nd or 1st & 2nd and go after a couple LB & a WR. I do like that kid from NC, he catches everything remotely close to him,
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
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Per a league source, Ward has agreed to terms on a four-year, $17 million deal.
What..Kok/Mang didn't want to fork out any money for a needed RB that they were supposed to be interested in?? Now it means one of those 2nd round picks is going to be needed for a RB..unless they have some other plans.  DnD : Also...Jabari Greer CB is coming for a visit today...We need to ink this dude and forget about Jenkins...
Thats a guy who needs to get signed..period..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 03/03/09 09:42 AM.
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