DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Terry Pluto today--mostly stuff on S Rogers

If I were Koke and Mang and they came away from the meeting feeling dude is going to be a problem..I call Tennessee and see how badly they want to replace Haynesworth.

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Are the Browns better without Rogers? Absolutely. If they kept Rogers, he would have the same attitude he had in Detroit when he sulked and pouted and underperformed.

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Coach I agree with everything you said except possibly this... I don't know where this issue stands right now but I'm not ready to give up on Rogers. We've all seen how productive he can be when he wants to be so I think this fence is definitely worth mending if at all possible. Many of these athletes have huge egos and will get bent out of shape by stuff that would never affect your or me... you can't just send every single one of them packing at the first whine...

I didn't clarify that well, DC. What I meant was if he was still a malcontent, not if this gets straightened out.

Mac, you demanded answers to question, I gave them then you ignored the questions I asked you.

I read a great quote in a book today that I was reading. When someone wants to believe something so desperately, facts and logic are easy obstacles to overcome.

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I read a great quote in a book today that I was reading. When someone wants to believe something so desperately, facts and logic are easy obstacles to overcome.

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I see U picked up a copy of my book about the posters on this board ... *LOL* ..

Let me know when it comes out in Spanish ... I'm dying to read the chapter on Mi Amigo Toad

I'm just a bit curious about something. I've been to banquets like this where there are a few managers, players, coaches etc.. and I've gone to these with fellow dawgs.

When you have these people in the room, it's hard to miss them. Everyone is talking about "Did you see who just talked in?" and "OMG so and so is here" The point I'm trying to make is that these guys are all the buzz in the room. It's normally difficult not to know who is there and.. if this was an advertised listing of those in attendance, I gotta think you'd know who was attending besides yourself.

Just a thought.

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I leave you with the following, most of which I agree with, in regards to the Rogers situation.

Terry Pluto's Talkin'

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Do you even realize you posted the very article that started this thread? The entire thing again? Did you even read the thread????

He was too busy trying to make up a catchy name for anyone who doesn't see it his way.

Mac.......speaking for myself, since I was a big contributor early in the thread. I'm not a Mangini lover or "Mangini is the man" guy. My arguements were about the principle of the situation. New head coach doesn't speak to a player at a function. Explains that he didn't see him, which is verified later by another source. Now the player is crying that he is dissed because the coach didn't talk to him. You mention him ignoring him in the training facility, I've never heard that, and that is not the situation that is being used for the story.
To me it just shows Rogers immaturity. Sure, maybe now I can agree that Mangini should have called him to smooth things out, but I don't see how it was dire. Rogers on the other hand went to the press. Why didn't he go to Mangini? Is he too good for that? Sounds like a double standard to me.

The guys mad because the coach isn't falling all over him, so he says he doesn't want to play for him. Now he's adding the weight thing in too. Sounds like a frigging baby to me. So if that means I'm a "Mangini's the man guy" so be it. Your whole labeling thing to me is just as immature as Roger's whining.You forgot a cute name for the Roger's supporters, why, don't like people labeling you?

By the way, just like your boss at work.......Mangini is the man, he's the head coach and that makes him the man. That's just how it goes.

Good thoughts.....I don't disagree with anything you have written there....

I think (my opinion so mac knows) that Rogers was happy about being "the man" on the Browns D after being hammered for years in Detroit about his weight and attitude and work ethic.....and that it would have been soooooo easy for Mangini to call him like Diam mentioned. Pick up the damned phone after the misunderstanding was reported in the media and lay the cards on the table. About the purported snub, the weight, and how much he is looking forward to working with him in camp to build this D. However, we have heard that Gini is lacking in people skills ala Belichick. Perhaps Mangini didn't construe it as a big deal and something that could talk about when the entire team was assembled.......and again I reiterate that this is something that should have never gotten out anyway......I love when stuff is kept in-house. We don't need to know everything.....

Ya Think .. I can't imagine being in a room and not realizing that Mr.Rogers was in the House .. At this point , I just want things to get worked out .

Here's a related article that I haven't seen posted and if it has been I apologize for missing it:



Cribbs meets with Mangini, likes what he hears
by Dennis Manoloff/Plain Dealer Reporter
Saturday February 28, 2009, 5:38 PM

CLEVELAND --- Josh Cribbs, well aware of the communication issues between Shaun Rogers and Eric Mangini, did not want to leave anything to chance.
Cribbs, who lives in the area, recently met with the Browns' new coach at the Berea facility.

"I was just sitting at home, anxious, wondering who I was going to bleed for this year -- and if he could stand up to it,'' Cribbs said tonight in The Q. "I walked into the facility and asked, 'Is Coach here?' I was told, 'Yes, he just finished a meeting.' So I went up and talked with him.

"As of now, having met Eric Mangini and having spoken with him, I believe he's a winner. I believe he will get the job done here.''

Cribbs spoke with reporters before an autograph session at the Monsters-Grand Rapids game.


The one-on-one with Mangini lasted 30-40 minutes.

"We talked about how he planned to use me, his expectations for me and the team, things like that,'' Cribbs said. "It went pretty well. I was impressed.''

Mangini told Cribbs that he plans to use him all over the field, including defensive back if necessary.

"I said, 'Use me as much as you can,''' Cribbs said.

To learn more about Mangini, Cribbs sought out several Jets players he knows who played for him in New York over the past three seasons.

"They said, 'He's the real deal,''' Cribbs said. "They said, 'Be ready. Get ready for bootcamp. He's no pushover, he's no joke.' I got the message.

"Guys you might say could try to run over a coach -- that's not going to happen with him. He's going to weed out those guys, if they exist. There's a new sheriff in town.''

Cribbs figures the operative word around camp this season will be discipline.

"(Mangini) is going to bring the discipline that a lot of people say this football team needs,'' he said. "We probably were a little lax last year.''

The Browns, coming off a 10-6 season, sunk to 4-12. Mangini replaced Romeo Crennel.

"Change is good,'' Cribbs said. "Change the President, change in the country. We have change with the Browns.

"Coach Mangini brings a lot of discipline. If that's going to help us and bring a winning attitude here, then so be it. If I have to get used to it, I have to get used to it. I'll do anything to win.''

Cribbs was one of the few Browns who could look in the mirror after last year and feel good, at least individually. Rogers was another. Rogers had a Pro Bowl season in the middle of the defensive line. Rogers reportedly is upset by Mangini's failure to reach out to him in the off-season, and about the organization's focus on his weight.

There are rumblings that Rogers wants out of Cleveland after just one season.

"I don't know the exact details of what his arrangement is, and I can't speak for Shaun, but I can say he's a talented player and that hopefully he'll remain a Cleveland Brown,'' Cribbs said. "My guess is, he will, that it will resolve itself.

"I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding, a big misunderstanding. Eric -- coach Mangini -- hasn't had a chance to come in and formally address the team or get to personally meet each and every guy. When those things happen, everything will be solved.''

Cribbs had his meeting with Mangini before Kellen Winslow Jr. was traded to Tampa Bay for draft picks. Cribbs said he was surprised by the move.

"Kellen was a huge asset to our team,'' he said. "He has a lot of heart. We have talented guys, guys who can stand in and pick up the slack, but he will be missed.'''

Winslow was involved in his share of controversies with the Browns. Cribbs, asked if he thought the new regime might have jettisoned Winslow to rid themselves of a locker-room problem, said "I'm not sure about that. I know Kellen was a warrior on the field and wanted to win really bad. I didn't doubt his effort on the field. I can't do anything but wish him the best.''

Asked if the trade signaled that the Browns might be in rebuild mode, Cribbs said: "Potentially we are. But that wouldn't mean we don't want to win.''

It was no secret Winslow wanted a new contract. Cribbs wants one, too.

Cribbs signed a six-year extension in 2006 worth $6 million, including a $2 million signing bonus. Then he became a Pro Bowler. He backed it up with a strong season.

"My people are talking with the Browns,'' he said. "I'm sure it's all on the up-and-up and we're going to get it situated before the season starts.''

And if it doesn't happen by the time training camp opens?

"I don't want to discuss anything about holding out or anything like that,'' he said. "I don't think it will ever come to that.

"The Browns will take care of me. They always have. I've been doing pretty well, having success with the Browns. There's no reason they wouldn't take care of me.''

Good article Shep, although I can say that none of that is a surprise. Cribbs met with Mangini around the pro-bowl.

In the interview on this thread from Jan. 31 Cribbs said that he had gone to Berea and personally talked to Mangini.

That's what bugs me about Rogers beef with Mangini. Cribbs wanted to talk to Mangini so he went to Berea and talked to him. Rogers feels "upset", why not go to Berea and have a sit-down with Mangini?

That makes no sense to me.

That just made me like Cribbs even more, guy is true definition of team guy.

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That's what bugs me about Rogers beef with Mangini. Cribbs wanted to talk to Mangini so he went to Berea and talked to him. Rogers feels "upset", why not go to Berea and have a sit-down with Mangini?

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I said that once before... what is easier, for the coach to call and get in contact with 50+ players and schedule meetings.. or for each player to call the coach and, if they are so inclined, to go meet with him?

I can see if he had made it a point to call all of them... we'd be sitting here right arguing that he called Rogers before he called Braylon or he called Quinn before he called Anderson... what does that mean?

I'm not obsessed with either... I WANT him to be the man just because I don't want to go through this again in a year or 2 or 3...

However, truth be told, I'd feel a little more comfortable if a few more players came out and sounded as excited as Cribbs... but unless something REALLY blows up, I'm going to reserve judgement until I see what the Browns look like on the field.

Thanks, Shep! I always read Pluto, and usually agree with his stuff, and always consider what he says. This guy has to stay and play, and a bit of brown-nosing a star who earns respect is a cost of doing biz. Some who bring only a jaw and gripes and do NOT perform, they should go to Canadia and play or get out. MO.
Happy or not he is paid for well. Shut up and soldier, soldier comes to mind.

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Mangini needs to lose the A-hole personality very quickly

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I'm not convinced he is any more an A-hole than Rogers is.. Rogers could have picked up the phone, or he could have jumped in the car and drove over to Berea and asked to see the coach also. I mean, Cribbs did it, is Rogers too good to do that also.

Ya know, if he saw mangini at that function, he could just as easily gone over to him and introduced himself also. it's a two way street Mac...

bard...so your saying Mangini needs to address the issue, maybe face to face?

Bard, what we need to realize...we have Rogers, who may be as good as Haynesworth, and we didn't fork out 100 mill for him. We have the guy signed for what?...4 or 5 more years and if he performs as he did last season, he's a steal for the Browns.

This is a guy the Browns need and the last thing we need is him to be unhappy for some crazy reason such a HC not showing him due respect.

Yep, sometimes a franchise has to kiss a little butt to get the most out a player.

That does not mean that Mangini won't get what he wants, a Rogers who has his weight in control and is in good shape. If Rogers is not where Mangini wants him in weight and conditioning when training camp begins, Mangini has time to help him get in shape once you have Rogers in camp.

We need Rogers in shape by the time the first regular season game starts, not necessarily in July. The weight issue is not really a pressing issue when we think in terms of the regular season. There really was no reason for the Mangini to come off as a hardasrs on the weight issue.

The following was written about one NFL coach...

......"He treated all his players differently. He knew some needed to be motivated by being yelled and others required their space. He was seen as an adept psychologist " he rode some players hard but stayed away from others, depending on how they responded."

Any idea who this is?

If Mangini applies a little psychology and helps Rogers achieve the goals established, we will have one heck of a NT. It starts with respecting each other and talking face to face, not through the media....jmho...mac

Daman...who is supposed to be the "adult"?

Who is supposed to be the one that is experienced, educated and groomed to be a HC?

The situation has been handled badly by the Browns/Mangini and we don't need this kind of crap going on within the franchise.

Someone has to be smart enough to know how to keep mole hills, mole hills...and not allow them to grow into mountains.

Again, who is the adult here?

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Again, who is the adult here?

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I believe they all are

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Daman...who is supposed to be the "adult"?

Who is supposed to be the one that is experienced, educated and groomed to be a HC?

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THey are both adults, they are both smart enough to know,, reach over and tap the guy on the shoulder and say.. Hi, I'm your new HC or Hi, I'm your PRO BOWL NT..

Don't give me that adult, educated thing Mac.. It don't hold any water with me..

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The situation has been handled badly by the Browns/Mangini and we don't need this kind of crap going on within the franchise.

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That's your opiinion and your welcome to it,, But I believe that Rogers could have done the exact same thing that Cribbs did... unless of course he felt he was too good to be bothered.. and if that's the case, then he's got nothing to moan about.

Do I think that mangini could have handled it better... you bet I do. Do I think that Rogers could have handled it better,,, you bet I do.

There is plenty of blame to go around.. plenty of it.. and again, you will never get me off the dime on this.. it's a two way street.

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Both are, but only one of them is the BOSS, and it's not Rogers.

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*LOL* .... thats funny .....

exactly what does Jeannie being the boss have to do with this ... I know its not cause Sean wouldn't get 10 calls in 10 minutes from 10 OTHER BOSSES in the league ... that'd be kind of ironic now wouldn't it ... *L*

so seriously .. whats your point ... and i really pray that u do not come back with .... "u need to listen to the boss cause there the boss" ... cause at the end of the day in the whacked out world of the NFL ...

the boss NEEDS the player more than the player needs the boss ...

Think about it GM .. its not even close as to who needs the other more ...

I think Rogers is a head case and would not mind at all seeing him shipped off .. and I believe jeannie did nuttin wrong here other than not picking up the phone when he first heard Rogers was being a 2 year old ....

but please ... come with sumptin that makes at least a shred of sense ..

HES THE BOSS ... *LOL* .... good one bro ...

Yep it's funny that I expect an employee to show his boss some respect be it a NFL player, NBA player, U.A.W. member, hotel maid, or ditch digger. Any time you have somebody running around disrespecting a boss, there will be problems in the work place.

Now am I saying that Rogers disrespected Eric.... nope, but if any player does he needs either A. an attitude adjustment, or B booted to the curb.

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the boss NEEDS the player more than the player needs the boss ..

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Just like a GM in a dealership needs good sales people more than they need him. However if he lets one guy get away with crap that others don't get away with your going to have problems from within.

Feel free to keep laughing bro

OK .. I will .. *LOL* ...

your comparing car salesmen to NFL football players .... Okie Dokie .. *LOL* ..

and if u want to make assinine comparisions ... make them more realistic ...

the GM car salesman would have had to have been one in the top 5% of the entire industry and basically outproduced every other slaesman at his dealership almost by himself ...

and all the new Owner has to do is pick up the phone and make a call after his #1 producer percieved he was IGNORED TWICE ... I'm pretty sure EVERY SUCCESFUL car dealership owner would have found the courage to make that "exception" ... *LOL* ..

and dude .. U and others keep harping on this "special rules" thing ... and like I said to B .. thats BS ... it is not making special rules in this case to pick up the phone and call Rogers .. NONE WHAT SO EVER ..

U think our LBer's are going to respect Jeannie more if he made the call and the big moron gets over his 13 other personalities and shows up wanting to play or if Jeannie sticks to some mythical rule in this case about favoritism and Rogers gives a half ass effort in front of them all year ..

seriously ... how after Rogers percieves that he was snubbed twice do U or anyone else twist that into Jeannie would be showing favoritism by calling him to straighten it out ... how does that work?? ..

has jeannie potentially snubbed anyone else that were not hearing about?? .. I mean how does a phone call to clear up a percieved problem become favoritism?? ..

i;d call it COMMON SENSE ... but thats just me ...

and one last time at the car salesman vs nfl player comparision ... *LOL* ...

Daman...someone has to go first here.

Did you happen to read this?... web page

Reports indicate that Mangini is attempting fix the problem, but I don't see a word coming out of Berea....nothing but silence...that makes me think that Mangini is working on another way to fix his mess.

I did read on the thread Re: Broncos QB Cutler miffed at the team after trade talks surface [Re: Pdawg]
#530182 - 03/03/09 10:01 AM

Would you trade for Cutler?

Maybe Shaun Rodgers/Brady Quinn for Jay Cutler and a 3rd?

I know I would.

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Go Browns!!

web page



that the Broncos were possibly interested in Rogers and Quinn.

That sure helps the Browns defense, doesn't it?

I do grow very tired of the Browns getting taken on trades...I grow tired of the Browns "constant" 3 ring circus, too.

Every time Lerner thinks he's hired people who can run an NFL franchise like professionals, he finds out via the newspaper that he again misjudged the capabilities of his HC and GM.

What is the value of a handshake?...mac

79...What did the Browns trade to draft Winslow?

Ok, that's one. What are the others?

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Reports indicate that Mangini is attempting fix the problem, but I don't see a word coming out of Berea....

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Come and talk to me about it after you hear it coming from Berea..

Read my lips.. It's a two way street.. and I don't care if you don't agree..

"There was a reason or two why Mangini was fired by the Jets and his lack of "people skills" may have been one of them. Mangini needs to learn from his mentor's coaching history."

Someday you will actually have a leg to stand on...lol

People skills. Do you understand the real reason he was fired?

THE OWNER...

He's got a new stadium to fill and sell out especially the expensive Box seats.

Its not that Mangini wasn't PLAYER FRIENDLY that got him fired. After all I have yet to hear a player OUT RIGHT BASH HIM.

So where is this People skills that you claim he got fired. Not his coaching staff. Not his players. And here is where Mangini got fired. His MEDIA SKILLS SUCKED!!! And the Owner actually thought he had Cowher in the BAG

The guy is in trouble with Wall Street and the power brokers and the Banking capital of the world being in the predicament that it is. He has to sell out those lucrative Box seats and needs the Media on his side as much as possible. This played BIG TIME in the firing of Mangini.

Their loss is our Gain

JMHO

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Come and talk to me about it after you hear it coming from Berea..

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Daman...I don't believe Mangini has any intention of trying to fix his relationship with Rogers. Mangini will have to prove to me he is capable of handling the situation.

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Daman...I don't believe Mangini has any intention of trying to fix his relationship with Rogers. Mangini will have to prove to me he is capable of handling the situation.

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No Intention? is that just a gut feeling or are you basing that on something substantial?

As for Mangini proving things... I think even those that liked the hire would say that..... nothing new there Mac..

Maybe they weren't great trades, but explain to me how we got totally taken by the other teams.

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Its not that Mangini wasn't PLAYER FRIENDLY that got him fired. After all I have yet to hear a player OUT RIGHT BASH HIM.

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EO...Mangini has shown poor people skills since coming to Cleveland, IMO. You say Mangini was loved in NY, but I read that Favre was not happy with the way Mangini handled him.

Here is a small peace on the subject... web page


I picked out these two sentences from this article web page to show that not "all" was well in Jetstown...

"The feelings emanating from Florham Park pointed to a disgruntled QB, unhappy with Eric Mangini refusing to give him preferential treatment during team meetings.

Not only were Mangini's practices notoriously tough, but the team was losing, players were aggravated, and he led his team down one of the most embarrassing roads a professional player could ever travel."


EO...after reading a bit about the Jets past season, it sounds like Mangini lost his team in the last few weeks of the season. It sounds like instead of easing up a little in the last month of the season when some of the guys are nicked up or a little tired, Mangini rode his horses harder than hell.

The Jets may have left their game on the practice field.

I'm gonna stick with my opinion that Mangini is in need of some teaching when it comes to "common sense" and "people skills". If he does not improve in those areas, he'll be lucky to last two seasons, IMO.

I do not believe Mangini has the people skills to resolve the issues created when he failed to introduce himself to Rogers on two occasions and sent him a letter that sounds like an ultimatum concerning Rogers weight.

EO...I hope I'm wrong about Mangini and will gladly eat crow if I am. I just have a feeling Mangini is very lacking in some area when it comes to his coaching ability....mac