DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum FREE AGENT SIGNINGS PART DEUX

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Ok, then why sign Hank Gotbeat ??? I think that guy is worse than Cousins ????

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I cant argue with ya on that one either, We need to upgrade from both these guys if we want to seriously play good defence.

Saints agree to deal with free agent tight end Darnell Dinkins
Mike Triplett of the New Orelans Times-Picayune reports the Saints have agreed to a one-year deal with free agent tight end Darnell Dinkins, according to a league source. Terms were not disclosed.

Dinkins, 32, is a veteran role player who stands out more as a blocker and special teams player than as a receiver. He has 25 receptions for 228 yards and three touchdowns in his six-year career with the Cleveland Browns, Baltimore Ravens and New York Giants.

http://blog.theredzone.org/ViewItem.asp?Entry=589

Anyone still think this is not a total rebuild now ??

Of course not specifically on just him,...I suppose they think Cribbs will fill this hole too.

ehh no biggie. average blocker, decent STer, bad hands

Good Luck Darnell

I have to agree w/ Punch.

Up to this point, our team has been TERRIBLE.

Why would you WANT to keep that together?

Adios to whomever else is let go, thanks for the memories. That's including BQ.

Six years eh?

i understand your points, but we do still have Heiden, Royal and Rucker.

3 TE deep should be fine unless Heiden won't be healthy in time for camp.

I forgot about Royal,...thanks. Hopefully Steve plays big this year, but again, who knows what the plan is.

I am going to give it two years,....this ain't gonna be it,....

I think that signing Robert Royal pretty much made Dinkins expendable. And with Royal and Rucker, and Heiden logging some play time coming back from injury, its not like there is some huge hole at TE. We will be fine.

In fact, with these three guys I like our TE core better than last year. IMO Winslow was a liability on the field; and I think Mangini recognized that and also saw the health and front office issues that K2 posed--and he shipped him. Good move.

Two seasons ago was an anomoly which we clearly didn't repeat. We didn't have a touchdown for like 5 games. Cut/Don't Sign/Resign/Draft/Pick Up/etc whoever we need to start winning games.

I'm tired of the poor talent but big heart mentality we bring in with our recruits (not saying this is Dinkins, just in general). But who cares if we win games, at least our team is friendly!

Tough to argue that (those) point(s),....

I don't believe talent was the total issue however.

I would truly like to have seen Mangini coach last year's squad. I don't believe it would have been 4-12. But as they are, some points are just moot.

I think that this team was really set up to fail last season. We bought into our own hype, Savage went crazy in free agency trying to put us over the top in a whirlwind of FA moves, and Romeo became a sort of lame-duck coach 5 games into the season.

The only things that we showed last year were our youth, inexperience, and lack of discipline. Gini is here to try and fix that---he rids us of Soldierboy, aqurires some veterans familiar with his system, and now all he has to do is bring in some draft picks to keep us happy, and commit to a QB.

I think with the way college and high school football weeds out the talent, that at the NFL level, the difference really is attitude and execution, or at least can be, in combination with a good scheme, good planning, etc. That all goes to the coach and his staff.

Look at the defense from 07 to 08,...from being adequately achieving enough to win 10 games, to complete horsedung, i.e. "Let's fire Grantham,..."

Player execution ? I'm all for it,...(McKay at Tampa) What a great tongue-in-cheek that was.

last I looked we got 42 players returning...don't know how many will make last cuts in the end of August/beginning of Sept.

I really, really fail to see that as a total rebuild...and lets look at the starters.

O: BE, Stallworth, JoeT, ES, Fraley, Tucker, Vickers, Lewis, BQ
NINE still here.

D: Shaun Smith, Rogers, Williams, Wimbley, DQ, McD, EW n Pool
Eight still here.

sorry ooorah...I just don't see the "TOTAL" rebuild that you see.

JMHO

Your idea of simply looking at the roster holdovers as a rebuild is fair, but shallow. I'm trying to look at the entire organizational process; new GM, new coach, new staff, new attitudes and emotions, new schemes, new camp. It's all in the same trend that you "rebuild" with any new takeover. When I see results from the rebuild, then I will back off.

Well the Schemes are not that new...a lot of the same Language.

Even in our Scouting department very similar format as Kokinis is using the same structure that Savage brought in.

Yes we have change...and yet Continuity as much as possible.

Same D - who knows about the Offense and the language...probably different but all you Quinn is not our QB guys...think about it. He's one guy who is probably very familiar with it and in a position to lead.

By Womack and St. Clair we are going with more power even if these guys end up as depth in the near future.

RESULTS? BACK OFF?

Sorry you used the words TOTAL Rebuild...I know thats left ope for interpretation but now you are talking about any kind of rebuild at all. I just showed you and I think pretty effectively that we are not in this so called TOTAL REBUILD that you speak of...no matter how much you back track and dance now. We are not. And actually its one of the reasons I think Mangini endeared himself to RANDY...is that he thought we could Build ONWARD...and not REBUILD. From everything I read it was the major difference between Mangini and Pioli.

JMHO

Well you just keep harping on all that and make yourself look good,....I'll wait for the results,....

Just talking football. My apologies for making sense.

As for looking good....I already look good no need for me to make it that way. Just ask my wife...She wouldn't lie to me

She's been lying to you for years,...(like CoachB,.... )

you pose a very optimistic stance; let's hope cooler heads do prevail...

here's a take it or leave it fluff piece: (discuss - no bonus credit to the author for failing to use "pork chop")

"click this"

Shea: Staring at the Doomsday Clock
Here's a photo of zombies and black helicopters
Here's a photo of zombies and black helicopters

By Site Staff

Posted Mar 21, 2009


After dismantling an internet full of draftniks in the latest issue of the OBR magazine, Detroit bureau chief Bill Shea examines the last two months of fun in Berea. Hoping that he's wrong, afraid that he's right...

We’re two months into the Mangini Regime in Cleveland, and what has transpired since Jan. 7 is leaving a lot of fans baffled and uneasy.

Odds are, this isn’t going to change until kickoff in September. And maybe not even then.

For the moment, let’s step back and examine what’s been going on in Cleveland. The high-stakes, high-profile search for a new head coach and general manager was painted one way by the team and Mangini after it was over.

Let us imagine how those interviews went …

Scott Pioli: “Randy, I’ll be frank. We need to blow up the roster. Some of these guys are good, but this teams is a couple dozen new players away from being a New England-style annual contender. We have a lot of work to do and it’s going to take a few years before we’ll be in a position to win the Super Bowl.”

Randy Lerner: “Kansas City has good ribs. Send me a postcard.”

Eric Mangini: “We can win with the players we have right now. Maybe add a couple here and there. We’re close. You know, I used to work for Bill Belichick, right? Would you like to see my Super Bowl rings? When I first worked for the Browns back in 1994 as an intern, I used to put a Whoopee Cushion on Plain Dealer columnist Bill Livingston’s seat in the press room, in case Coach Belichick wanted to have his annual laugh. Turns out, we didn’t need the gag device. Did I mention I have Bill Parcells’ number in my Rolodex? Also, we’ll need to hire my old roommate George to run the team.”

Randy Lerner: “You’re hired.”

So Mangini responds by blowing up the roster, trading away what he likely perceived as a malcontent in Kellen Winslow Jr., and has basically ignored fuming Mt. Rogers. He also signed in free agency a bunch of guys that couldn’t earning a starting spot on other bad teams. Now, they can not earn starting spots in Cleveland.

They call it building depth. But what kind of depth is it when your team already fields a second-string lineup when compared to much of the NFL? This new depth seems not to be the Browns’ junior varsity team, but more like the freshman squad. The JV is the starting unit in Cleveland. It’s a roster of special teams players.

Mangini clearly intends to put his personal stamp on the team, which means he wants to be Bill Belichick being Bill Parcells. It’s a wonder he didn’t legally change his first name to Bill. If it works, I don’t care if he changes his name to Judas Iscariot. In the meantime, public relations (a vital part of the game these days) continues to be a congenital defect of the Cleveland Browns, leading to rampant rumors, irritating innuendo, spectacular speculation and a fan base left wondering what the hell is going on. Maybe it’s a Manginian tactic or maybe it’s just more of the fumbling we’ve been subjected to for 10 years.

Let’s take a look at those imported free agents (which means I don’t give a hoot in hell they resigned safety Mike Adams):

Eric Barton (MLB, Jets): Reminds me a little bit of when Belichick brought Pepper Johnson to Cleveland from the Giants. Only this time, it’s Mangini bringing in an old linebacker from the other New York team. The Jets gave up 95 yards rushing per game (7th best in the NFL), and Barton was instrumental in that from his middle linebacker position. He’ll be replacing the departed Andra Davis from a Browns team that surrendered 152 yards a game on the ground. Of course, the Jets were 29th against the pass at 234.5 yards per game given up, which begs the question: Will Barton be a liability against the pass? Or did teams have to pass a lot because they couldn’t run. Teams ran 134 fewer times against the Jets (407 attempts) than the Browns (541).

David Bowens (OLB, Jets): Cleveland is his sixth team in 12 seasons. His best was starting 15 games for the Dolphins in 2004 when he recorded 40 total tackles, 7 sacks and 6 passes defensed. He got five starts last year and turned in OK numbers in that time. But how much gas is left in the tank? How much of a tank did he have to begin with? He seems to be a body to fill a roster spot until someone better can be drafted, neither much hurting or helping the Browns in a meaningful way over the long term.

Noah Herron (RB, Packers): Who?

Corey Ivy (CB, “NFL team in Maryland“): Could only start for one of the NFL’s best defenses because of injury, and will only start for one of the worst for the same reason. He’s also 32 years old and has started just 21 games in 8 years. Most of them came last year. He’s also very undersized. Old, small and ineffective is no way to go through life, son.

C.J. Mosley (DT, Jets): He’s a big, young body that can spell big, old bodies. Got five starts in four seasons. Doubtful he’s going to make anyone forget Michael Dean Perry, but the thinking is he’s depth and maybe could blossom in a new city. He comes cheap so it’s no big whoop.

Hank Poteat (DB, Jets): All I remember about him is that he was one of the defensive backs that Kelly Holcomb shredded in the team’s last playoff game. I can’t imagine he’ll be much better at age 32.

Robert Royal (TE, Buffalo): Cleveland traded its all-world but often injured and grumpy tight end for a far less talented tight end that couldn’t catch in Buffalo. Maybe he’ll blossom in Cleveland. Maybe palm trees will blossom in Edgewater Park.

John St. Clair (OT, Bears): Pure backup for depth once a real starter is found. If one isn’t found, look for considerable dropoffs in the effectiveness of the running and passing games. And we all remember just how effective they were last year, right? My, does 2007 seem so long ago …

Floyd Womack (OG, Seahawks): See above.

With luck, the team will land at least one impact free agent -- my horse and kingdom for a wide receiver that can catch, remain healthy and behave -- before camp begins.

Until this team wins, and shows that its off-season contortions and weirdness was merely the sign of geniuses performing their brilliant alchemy in the kitchen, the Browns appear to be floundering and taking on the worst trappings of Belichick-Parcells with none of the good. Only winning will make me believe Mangini isn’t a fat punk ripoff of B&B who convinced Randy Lerner, worth $1.3 billion, to make cosmetic changes to the team’s Berea headquarters while a bunch of front office staffers were laid off due to “the economy” from a team Forbes estimates to be worth $1 billion and growing (up from $557 million in 1999).

*Shakes head*

But I’ve been around this game long enough to know I can be surprised and be wrong. With luck, I will be on both in the case of Mangini, but all signs point to another 4-12 season. And right now I’m smelling the faintest whiff of Testaverde-Kosar circa 1993, and I don’t like it. Mangini and Kokinis (hopefully) have a plan on what to do with the quarterback situation and it will unfold in coming months. Let us pray it doesn’t involve jettisoning the starting quarterback while the other is injured and all we have on the shelf is the 2009 version of Brad Goebel.

Bill Shea is the OBR’s Detroit bureau chief. Email him at docgonzo19@aol.com

"zombies and black helicopters?"

weird. sorry for the post-whoring

Browns Insider: Reshuffled roster getting "experienced," but is it any better?

by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter
Saturday March 21, 2009, 11:34 PM

CLEVELAND -- The Browns are getting older, if not better.

They have signed nine players in free agency. Their average age is 30.2. Six of the nine players will be 31 or older when the 2009 season starts. Last year the Browns had four players on their opening-game roster who were 31 or older.

Here's the roll call, with their age as of the opening game in September:

• Cornerback Corey Ivy, 32.

• Linebacker David Bowens, 32.

• Offensive lineman John St. Clair, 32.

• Cornerback Hank Poteat, 32.

• Linebacker Eric Barton, 31.

• Tight end Robert Royal, 31.

• Offensive lineman Floyd Womack, 29.

• Running back Noah Herron, 27.

• Defensive lineman C.J. Mosley, 26.

They are mostly role players. As a group, they have started 41 percent of all the games they've played (335 of 825). Royal has the highest percentage of career starts (.804) followed by Barton (.742). Of the rest, only Womack (.522) has started in at least half of his career games.

The apparent plan of building up the bottom of the team's roster is similar to one adopted by Bill Belichick when he became Browns coach in 1991. There are a couple of differences, however.

True free agency did not begin until 1993. In Belichick's first two years, the NFL had limited free agency (called Plan B), which allowed mostly older or unproven players to become free. The best players were protected by their teams from entering the market.

The other difference was that Belichick inherited an old team that was physically and emotionally spent after five straight playoff appearances that fell short and then a disastrous 1990 season. So it had to be rebuilt from the ground up.

The current Browns' regime must be the thinking the same thing.

When owner Randy Lerner met the media in late November prior to blowing up his football operations, he said one of the big questions he faced was determining which season was the aberration -- the 10-6 2007 team or the 4-12 2008 team.

It's obvious now that he has come to the conclusion that the 4-12 season was the one that more accurately reflected the state of the Browns.

Receiver challenged: You can now easily make the case that taking the top receiver in the draft is a more viable option for the Browns with the No. 5 pick.

As it stands, the Browns' top three returning pass catchers from last year are Braylon Edwards (55 catches), Steve Heiden (23) and Jamal Lewis (23). Heiden's readiness for most of preseason is uncertain after needing major knee surgery in December.

Since February, the Browns traded tight end Kellen Winslow (43 catches), lost running back Jason Wright in free agency (22), released Joe Jurevicius and saw the life and career of Donte Stallworth (17) change in a fatal car accident.

Receivers still on the roster from last year's team are Edwards, Syndric Steptoe, Josh Cribbs and Paul Hubbard.

So far, the only potential pass catchers added have been Royal (33 catches with Buffalo last year) and Herron (0 since 2006).

This position is so thin, the Browns haven't even named a receivers coach. It's possible coach Eric Mangini eventually will name quality control coach George McDonald to the post. McDonald spent the past two years at University of Minnesota and has never coached in the NFL.

The Browns can still sign a wide receiver in free agency. Some who are left unsigned: Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison, Drew Carter, Darrell Jackson, D.J. Hackett, Marty Booker, Keary Colbert, Lance Moore (restricted), David Patten, Amani Toomer, Drew Bennett, Ike Hilliard, Jerry Porter, Tab Perry, Reggie Williams and Ashley Lelie.

The top receiver in the draft figures to be Michael Crabtree of Texas Tech, even though recent foot surgery will keep him from proving his speed before the draft.

The only other receiver to consider in the top 10 is Jeremy Maclin of Missouri. Percy Harvin of Florida and Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina are also projected in the first round.

Nice rebound: Fired Browns executive T.J. McCreight, who was director of player personnel and Phil Savage's top lieutenant, landed on his feet as pro personnel director of the NFC champion Arizona Cardinals. McCreight is a native of Willoughby.

"So Mangini responds by blowing up the roster"

If Shea believes this he's an idiot...

We lost 3 starters to FAgency or retirement...and 1 more to a trade and another in being released.

I repeat...Idiot.

JMHO

That was a lot less words than I would have used but you said exactly what I was going to say.

I don't understand how anyone can say they've blown up the roster.

Other than confirmed signings the media has gotten nothing, so the hate comes out. Or they just seem to regurgitate and put a spin on someone else' piece.
I guess we'll have to wait till the draft till we can try to figure out a little more of the mystery...

The Browns are going to sign David Patten today.

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