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My wife and I have owned our house for about 4 years now. We bought it pretty much at the peak of the housing market bubble. Now that the RE market has tanked, we are upside-down in our loan pretty bad, and I'm not sure there's anything we can do to refinance. We make our payments just fine, but we still can't get out from under this loan. So my wife talked to a co-worker who is short selling their house and tried to explain it to her. It basically sounded too good to be true, so I wanted to verify that there is no "other things" that I'm missing here. The way she explained it was ... your realtor notifies the bank of a short sale, and at that point, you no longer have to make house payments. (!!!) You can then live in your house up to six months for free. If the house sells, then you have a couple of days to move out. If the house doesn't sell after six months, then it becomes bank owned, but not considered a foreclosure. You get out of the loan, and it becomes the bank's problem. The best part, is that this only sticks on your credit report for 2 years ... as opposed to 6 or 8 with a foreclosure. I figure I might as well do it now, and get those 2 years started. Much better than possibly getting layed off a few months down the road, and being forced to do it anyway ... or waiting till the loan resets, and potentially doing it then. And another added bonus ... as soon as we list it for short-sale, we are no longer responsible for the property taxes!!  So is there anything I'm missing here? Why aren't more people short-selling as opposed to foreclosing?
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Get Shorty This might answer some questions.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I believe that the bank has to approve the short sale. I don't think it's like something where you just tell the bank "we're short selling our house", and your responsibility is done. I don't know if banks are willing to do that as much nowadays. However, if the bank thinks they'll be able to get a lot of bang for the buck, they might be willing to do it.
Now, the bank may still want to do it because they'll get more out of a short sale than they would a foreclosure. However, it's really up to the bank.
Have you talked with the bank to see if you could work something out?
I will say that I've never really heard of a short sale in real estate, but maybe it is a good thing. At the same time, though, I stick by the old adage that if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
Best of luck, and let us all know how it works out. This might be a great way to help a lot of our fellow dawgs who have been hit by this economy.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I could be wrong, but I don't think you can just offer a house for a short sale without the consent of your lender. I believe the lender has to agree to accept the proceeds of the short sale (which will be less than you actually owe on the mortgage) as payment in full against what you currently owe on your mortgage.
The other problem is that you aren't currently having a problem making your mortgage payments, I would suspect your lender would not agree to such an arrangement in your case. Generally speaking, lending institutions use this as a tool to avoid lengthy (and more costly) foreclosure proceedings against customers who actually cannot make their payments. If you DO lose your job at some point (and are out of work for a while), this may be a "good" option.
Perhaps someone with some knowledge of the legalities behind these transactions can shed more light on the subject.
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We make our payments just fine
It seems like that would come into play on something like this. I would think your income would play a part in it and if they see you can make the payments without problem and probably aren't the type who will fall into a foreclosure at this point, that might stop them from approving it.
I have no idea though, this is the first I've heard of this.
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Quote:
It seems like that would come into play on something like this. I would think your income would play a part in it and if they see you can make the payments without problem and probably aren't the type who will fall into a foreclosure at this point, that might stop them from approving it.
Well, I can miss a couple of house payments if that helps. 
Seriously though, I've heard that the "threshold" for what you should be paying on a house is something like 30% of your income ... I think most of the government assistant programs and such are for people in this range. I think we are at something like 35%, I'm not sure. So we may be considered one of these "at risk" deals. We are pretty good at managing money, so it just hasn't been an issue for us. We could always throw our kid into daycare too, to suck up some income if need-be. 
I think we've also been paying interest-only on the loan for the last year or two (minimum payment) ... so that might help as well.
As far as talking to the bank, we had called them months ago and asked if we could re-fi. When they saw how far upside-down we were, they said they couldn't do anything.
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My wife is/was in the mortgage business for the last 15 years or so.. she says short selling has always been available but until the last couple of years banks were very reluctant to go along with it. VERY reluctant.
Given the economic climate and foreclosure rates these days, they are very much MORE inclinded to work with homeowners.
The fact that you are currently up to date makes you a very good candidate for this if I understood her correctly. Being up to date shows that you are credible, just concerned, but addressing the issue rather than running and hiding.
But she mentioned something to me that she's aware of, but not Totally up on. The FHA has a refinance program for folks in this pickle. I don't know if you qualify for it..
But before you take the step to short sell and then be without your own home, you may want to speak to someone at the FHA. or at a lender that works with FHA Loans.
Her understanding is (and she's not 100% sure of it) that they are refinancining folks at current home values with very low interest loans.
Meaning, if you bought your house for 100K and it's valued at 75k today, and you owe 85K, if she has this right, you get the 10K forgiven, the new loan is for the value of the home at 75k and your payments will get lowered for two reasons,, 1. Lower mortgage amount and 2. Lower interest rate. (did I hear the other day that freddie and fanny are backing 2.2% rates for mortgages, or am I wrong about that)
Anyway, that may be a better method than Short Selling. Even if you short sell and then you vacate the property, you still need a roof over your head, employed or not. so that means paying rent and damaging your credit for a couple of years.
Sounds to me like this is an alternative that may work.. I'd at least try it first..
Good luck man....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!
I've bought Short Sales before...
The Bank must give you consent to do it. You need it in WRITING.
BEWARE...Consult a CPA in YOUR STATE...
The difference between your mortgage and the actual sale price of the short sale can be treated ON YOUR PART as Ordinary Income...And YOU are responsible for the taxes on that figure...
If you have a local chapter of a Real Estate Investing Group...Contact an AGENT that knows Short Sales...Preferably one who's on the Board of Directors of said REIG...
Go Browns!!!
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We've looked into the alternative loans stuff as well. For one, most of them only go to 10% under the value of your home ... which we are over. And this new one that Obama is trying to pass, only deals with people who got their loans through Fannie or Freddie.
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The difference between your mortgage and the actual sale price of the short sale can be treated ON YOUR PART as Ordinary Income...And YOU are responsible for the taxes on that figure...
That's good to know, I'll keep that in mind.
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If you have a local chapter of a Real Estate Investing Group...Contact an AGENT that knows Short Sales...Preferably one who's on the Board of Directors of said REIG...
And we are ... we are going to meet with the guy who short-saled my wife's coworker's house.
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Well, it was just a thought.. Was what you looked into this new FHA deal out there now?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Good deal bro...You're doin' your homework...
You'll make an "Informed" decision...Good Luck...
A major part of the reason we're in the situation we are is because of the Investing craze in recent years...Yeah...Carlton Sheets lol...
You know what "Stated Income" is???
I was collecting unemployment back in 2001-2002...Started Investing myself...I can't tell you how many properties I bought AND refinanced on a "Stated Income" loan...And it means just that...Good credit...STATE your income...Seriously...NO VERIFICATION with good credit...
You say $100,000...They put it down...There's your answer as to why we are where we are right now...
Go Browns!!!
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Well, it was just a thought.. Was what you looked into this new FHA deal out there now?
I believe so ... we've looked at a number of things, and I think the FHA one was one of them. We didn't qualify for anything, since the value of our loan is far greater than the value of our house right now.
At any rate, we are pretty much ready to just get out from under this loan. Even if we were to somehow re-fi, if either one of us lost our jobs (which is a possibility), we would probably have to foreclose. We figure we might as well just bite the bullet now, and get it off of our credit in 2 years. I really don't mind losing the house and having bad credit for two years. We can probably dump the difference between house payments and renting into the bank, and have a decent lump sum to buy a house in two years. Not to mention, we'd save a few thousand a year in property taxes as well.
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Short sales can take a VERY long time to go through. That's assuming you're lender approves the short sale.
That said with the housing package that has just been put out there, there will be some refinancing options available that may be more attractive to your lender than a short sale. I would approach them about these options. Depending on how much you owe, and how much your home is worth it may be better if you can refi to a lower interest rate and/or if the bank accepts a lower principal balance, both of which can improve your monthly payment.
What kind of mortgage do you have? Conventional 30 year fixed? 5 - 1 ARM? Interest only? Is it a Fannie/Freddie backed mortgage? What's your LTV (Loan to Value)? You can PM me if you'd rather not post that info and I can send some info your way.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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I have no idea what any of it is, but if you can make your payments, then I would say that your best option is to just continue to do so and just live there and enjoy the place and make payments and wait for the market to rebound.
Things may not immediately rebound to previous levels, but once things finish bottoming out and a lot of the excess inventory starts to get off the market, your home values will definitely come back up. It's a house... and a 30 year mortgage... just sit in it for a few years and let things correct themselves.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Short sales can take a VERY long time to go through. That's assuming you're lender approves the short sale.
I actually just talked to my wife ... she was saying that this is how it was explained to her (so it could be wrong) ... that if you notify the bank that you want to short sale, then they can't foreclose on you. If you stop making payments, you're fine ... so it almost sounds like you can force them into a short-sale. Maybe it's some sort of Californian law, but I guess the realtor will have to fill us in on it when we meet with him. I'm guessing that either my wife or her coworker is just messing something up with the details.
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That said with the housing package that has just been put out there, there will be some refinancing options available that may be more attractive to your lender than a short sale. I would approach them about these options. Depending on how much you owe, and how much your home is worth it may be better if you can refi to a lower interest rate and/or if the bank accepts a lower principal balance, both of which can improve your monthly payment.
Which we've looked at. We've paid hardly any principle on the house (we stopped as soon as the market tanked) ... and the value of the house as dropped to around 15%-30% of the value we paid. Nobody wants to touch that. We pretty much bought at the exact WRONG time.
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What kind of mortgage do you have? Conventional 30 year fixed? 5 - 1 ARM? Interest only? Is it a Fannie/Freddie backed mortgage? What's your LTV (Loan to Value)? You can PM me if you'd rather not post that info and I can send some info your way.
We have an ARM, which resets I think in 2 more years. It allows us to pay interest only, which is what we are doing for now. I have no idea if it is Fannie or Freddie "backed" ... but we did not get it through Fan or Fred. It's a usual bank loan, that we got through lendingtree and was since sold off to another bank. LTV is rediculous, as I mentioned before. We bought at the worst time possible, and we've had a couple of bank repo'ed houses sell in our neighborhood for over 30% less than what we paid. Granted, our house is fixed up a lot nicer.
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Things may not immediately rebound to previous levels, but once things finish bottoming out and a lot of the excess inventory starts to get off the market, your home values will definitely come back up. It's a house... and a 30 year mortgage... just sit in it for a few years and let things correct themselves.
It's not a 30-year mortgage though ... it's an ARM, which becomes adjustable in 2 years. We also bought it right at the peak of the housing bubble ... so even if the market "corrects", we're still going to be in the hole for a long, long time. (I suppose I could cheer for inflation)
We can make the payments on it, but we are basically sacraficing other luxaries to do so. If we can get out of it with minimal damage, I would prefer to do so.
Also, it's a bit of "insurance" as well. If either one of us get layed-off, the house would get foreclosed on anyway. Might as well get out now, and pocket the extra money we'd be saving on renting, incase one of us does lose a job.
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Sounds like refinancing to a conventional loan should be the first thing to investigate.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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that if you notify the bank that you want to short sale, then they can't foreclose on you. If you stop making payments, you're fine
I'm no expert at this, but that just doesn't sound right to me.... something is wrong with that I think...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I have no idea what any of it is, but if you can make your payments, then I would say that your best option is to just continue to do so and just live there and enjoy the place and make payments and wait for the market to rebound.
Things may not immediately rebound to previous levels, but once things finish bottoming out and a lot of the excess inventory starts to get off the market, your home values will definitely come back up. It's a house... and a 30 year mortgage... just sit in it for a few years and let things correct themselves.
Prpl, yea he could ride it out and in some cases, that makes sense.. but if he can get out from under this loan with minimal damage, then why not investigate it?
Look at it this way... let's use SoCal numbers (or at least more realistic than he paid $100K for the house) and say he paid $350,000 for this house and it's now worth $225,000 and his mortgage is still at $340,000... he's WAY upside down and it would take a long long time to recover that.. so if he can get out from under the $340,000 mortgage and within a year or so buy a similar darn house on the same darn street for $230,000... then why not? Then he is actually profiting from the recovery and not just trying to get back to even...
Plus I know a little about Excls situation and with kids and all, I'm sure he wasn't planning on being in this house for 15 years waiting for the market to catch back up so he could sell it for no profit...
yebat' Putin
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True. The bank will just write down the loss and we'll just bail that out.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm not saying it's a great plan for the taxpayers, but for individuals, if the ability to do it exists, why not use it?
yebat' Putin
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Well, let's be honest, we want as few people doing that as possible. It's already astronomical with apparently no end in sight.
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True. The bank will just write down the loss and we'll just bail that out.
I'd rather my tax dollars go to helping people with their bad mortgages than line the pockets of some political lobby group, or some high end execs vacation retreat.
The money is going to be spent no matter what.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I might wait a while and see how this mortgage program in proposal finally shakes out.
And if you talked months ago.....months ago banks were near dead...they have been given a reprieve...so they may be ready to talk.
The banks have to approve a short sell....you can't just walk in the door and tell them the new plan..that is why there are outfits such as the one Otto linked...they go in and work for you to help get that done.
That is really why the government is stepping in right now....there is a whole wave of homeowners who are just now, or soon to know what they are paying on their home is way more than they will ever recoup...and if they just start tossing in the keys to the ranch... and decide 8 years in credit hell isn't that bad, well..the house of cards falls.
I do understand....if I owed 150k on a house that I might be lucky to sell for 70-80k....that's years away from gaining back the value.....like 15-20 years....I would consider taking my lumps in default and start anew.
I would also look at how upside down you are.
25% might not be so bad...50% is....and you can't look at it in terms of a sale today...it really has to be in a few years...something is going to change...either we are all going to be in the weeds, or things are going to level out.
Once the really big money begins to fear what they have may become worthless, attitudes on a general, global wide "do-over" of sorts don't get laughed at if it preserves something for them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'm no expert at this, but that just doesn't sound right to me.... something is wrong with that I think...
I agree ... that's why I'm asking. Everyone knows the first people you turn to when you have questions is not a real-estate agent or a lawyer ... but the Browns' message board.
I did get the email address of a short-sale lawyer around here, so I'm asking him about the process.
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Well, let's be honest, we want as few people doing that as possible. It's already astronomical with apparently no end in sight.
Okay ... I'll do it, and then NOBODY else.
Honestly, we probably wouldn't be looking into it if it weren't for mutiple factors: 1) We're in an ARM not a 30-year fixed, and nobody will refinance us ... 2) We bought the house at peak value and now it's drastically under the purchase value, and very unlikely that it will bounce back to the price we payed for it. 3) There's a decent potential of one of us losing a job and us foreclosing anyway. I'd rather hedge my bets and take the 2-year penalty rather than risk the foreclosure.
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Yea, 3 years ago I moved to Carolina because it was quiet and there was no traffic and the weather is nice.. now all of these other bastages have moved here and ruined it for me.
yebat' Putin
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Yea, 3 years ago I moved to Carolina because it was quiet and there was no traffic and the weather is nice.. now all of these other bastages have moved here and ruined it for me.
Can't wait to see you next week, we bought the house across the street!!! 
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Yea, 3 years ago I moved to Carolina because it was quiet and there was no traffic and the weather is nice.. now all of these other bastages have moved here and ruined it for me.
Can't wait to see you next week, we bought the house across the street!!!
Then I'll be your new next door neighbor!
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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Yea, 3 years ago I moved to Carolina because it was quiet and there was no traffic and the weather is nice.. now all of these other bastages have moved here and ruined it for me.
Can't wait to see you next week, we bought the house across the street!!!
 The house across the street has been for sale for 3 months and last week the "Under Contract" sign went on it...
OMG.. are you serious?  
Anyway, you have big shoes to fill. The family that lived there before was the social center of the neighborhood, they organized the cookouts, the beer pong games, the lawn dart tourneys, all of it. The neighborhood has been dead since they left... hope you're up for it.
yebat' Putin
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Oh! You'll LOVE the festivities we have planned!!! 
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Excl... Just about the same thing here. My wife and I moved to Florida in 2005 and bought our current home in October of that year. We not only make our payments on time, but I have ALWAYS paid an extra 300-500 per month, wanting to build equity faster. NOW, we're big upside down - probably 35-40%. It just makes me sick. I continue to make the extra payments and often I ask myself, "why do I continue to do it?". I may have a new job opportunity in another state, which really brings the question to light even more. I simply don't know what to do. 
From Cleveland to KC to south central Florida, this dawg has made his travels - and changed his display name for each move.
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I'm not saying it's a great plan for the taxpayers, but for individuals, if the ability to do it exists, why not use it?
Just out curiosity... did you not listen to yourself at all when you wrote that, or do you not see the connection between the two?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Oh! You'll LOVE the festivities we have planned!!!
Those gay recruitment rallys they hold can get pretty loud and obnoxious
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I'm not saying it's a great plan for the taxpayers, but for individuals, if the ability to do it exists, why not use it?
Just out curiosity... did you not listen to yourself at all when you wrote that, or do you not see the connection between the two?
Better the responsible people take advantage of the programs rather than those that will just default again in 5 years anyway. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Oh I really do see the connection...
yebat' Putin
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So, then you support and agree completely with all of the bailing out we're doing?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
So, then you support and agree completely with all of the bailing out we're doing?
Absolutely not. I'm just saying that if the money is out there for the taking, I can't blame somebody for using some of it to help themselves out of a tough spot...
And if somebody has to use it, I'd prefer it go to somebody like excl who I know to be hardworking and responsible instead of to somebody who is far less responsible or to some big corporation CEO so he can take his management team to Cancun for a retreat...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,180
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,180 |
I don't see a difference, not at all... except some weak attempt at deflecting using some class division with CEO vs. "little guy".
What I do see is the exact same type of selfish, self-serving profiteering point of view that one person at a time put this nation into the boat it is in.... but, everyone else is doing it, so I'm just getting mine, right?
Short selling a home, especially one that you can afford, simply in the name of profit... passing the loss - which is currently only a loss in value, not a loss in cash - onto the bank, who passes it onto the mortgage insurer (the loss is now a cash loss) like ....hmmm, AIG? All in the name of making a buck... and that is ALL it is about.
And we wonder why they keep needing billions and billions as we wag our finders saying "you're mismanaging your money and bilking the taxpayer!!"..... but nobody wants to take personal responsibility for their part in it and nobody wants to own up to their part in THEMSELVES being the ones that are bilking the taxpayers.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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