DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cutler Miff Part Two

All true, but I was talking about HERE,...

Who cares what happens after he's traded,....

I'm not sure I particularly care whats good for Quinn.. Unless it's also good for the Browns that is.

If somehow, we end up with a better QB who also happens to be as good or better person than Quinn, then I'm not really sure I'd let him get out of town.

I'm completely against Cutler coming here. For two reasons, his health which I admit might be me being overly cautious, and his attitude, which is there for all to see.

His attitude is terrible, don't want him based soley on that. I don't want to trade Quinn either. We don't know if someone is going to be better than him yet.

In a perfect world, at least IMO, we would trade BQ to Denver, they would trade Cutler to Detroit, and they would send us their first rounder, 20th overall. That would be awesome.

+1

I dont understand your logic. What have you seen out of quinn in 4 games that makes you ready to ship him out?

I would like to go back to something shotty66 said in the previous Cutler thread that was pretty stupid...

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Cutler is no better then Quin, imo....Neither has done anything in the NFL. I hate to say it but GULP! DA has done more then both. ...Look at how many game's and compaire. Not saying either is no good, but what have you done for me lattley?

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Cutler is no better than Quinn? What!?!?!

Neither has done anything in the NFL? What!?!?!

Cutler has started pretty much 2 1/2 seasons in the NFL, in those 2 1/2 seasons he has 54 TD's and 37 INT's with a completion percentage of 62.5%. Brady Quinn has played 3 games in the NFL so comparing his stats to Cutler's would be unfair. But I think it is safe to say that Cutler has proved much more in the NFL.

Onto this comment, "DA has done more then both. ...Look at how many game's and compaire."

Cutler and Anderson actually match up pretty well. Cutler has played in 37 games, Anderson has played in 31. In those games Cutler has 54 TD's, Anderson has 43. Cutler has 37 INT's, Anderson has 35. Cutler has completed 62.5% of his passes, Anderson 54.6%.

"Not saying either is no good, but what have you done for me lattley?"

What have you done for me lately? Last year Cutler made the Pro Bowl. Anderson was benched mid-season and put on the injured reserve after hurting his knee.

I don't know if you were drunk when you posted, but you are way off on every single point of your argument.

And to top it off your spelling sucks. Yeah, I went there.

I must say that I find it weird how the wind changes here. So many people were CLAMORING for Quinn to be the guy and now so many people are CLAMORING for him to be traded.

Josh McDaniels and the Denver Broncos would be foolish to trade Jay Cutler! ESPN is really trying to create an offseason story with their coverage of the situation in Denver with Cutler. I can't see Mangina and Kokinis being involved in a three way trade with McDaniels and the Broncos. My prediction is Anderson and or Edwards will be traded before the draft is over and Quinn will be our starting QB heading into the 2009 season. Time will soon tell all..

How are we not in the position to win now? We'll have a favorable schedule and Mangina and Kokinis are adding veteran free agents who still have some game left. I'm feeling optimistic about what this FO has been doing so far this offseason.

I feel you... We just need to win our division.. If we can do that.. We will be in the playoffs every year...

If our team would actually play 60 minutes of football.. and not just a half... It would be.

I can envision Cutler getting traded to Detroit for their #20 pick and maybe a later round as well. I don't see him staying in Denver.

Post deleted by Referee2

GAH NO. This upsets me. Not because he needed to come to the Brown, but cuz my friend is a Broncos fan. He'll be sad. I don't want my friends to be sad.

Cutler needs to stay in Denver. Pay the dude his cry baby contract.

POST DELETED

All things considered, it will take a considerable offer to land Cutler
Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst

The football topic that swamped the media last year was Brett Favre's relationship with the Green Bay Packers. The star quarterback finally wound up in a New York Jets uniform after months of speculation.

This year, center stage belongs to Jay Cutler, quarterback of the Denver Broncos (for now). Favre and Cutler have the same agent (Bus Cook), by the way, and that just adds to the intrigue surrounding this year's soap opera.

However, Cutler's case is much more interesting than last year's situation with the aging Favre. While Favre had no more than one or two years left in him when he departed from Green Bay, Cutler will be 26 years old on April 29 and could play for another 10 years.


It is highly unusual that a player of Cutler's caliber is available for a trade in the NFL. Quarterbacks such as Chad Pennington, Kurt Warner and Drew Brees have switched teams in recent years and had success with their new clubs, but Cutler is younger than all of them. Therefore, let's take a look at his value, based on production, age and contract.

Before any team calls the Broncos to inquire about what it would take to acquire Cutler -- if Denver even really wants to trade him -- it must look at his production.

Cutler has numbers that seem to command a big price tag. Take a look at what he did in 2008 and consider that the Broncos' defense was ranked 29th overall and last in creating turnovers with just 13 takeaways. They were 30th in points allowed. Overall, they had 44 starts from rookies -- the second-highest total in the NFL behind a Kansas City Chiefs team that was in a full-blown youth movement. In contrast, the Pittsburgh Steelers had only one start by a rookie all season on their way to winning the Super Bowl.

Other interesting facts about Cutler:

» He guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.

» He was No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays. That equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.

» He was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.

» He was No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).

» He threw for more yards than Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo and Ben Roethlisberger, to name a few.

» He had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars).

» He had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.

» Sure, he threw 18 interceptions, which is unacceptable, but his ratio of picks to attempts was 1:34, which tells a slightly different story. Last season, Brees had an interception every 37 pass attempts. Favre's ratio was 1:23, and Roethlisberger's was 1:31. Cutler's career ratio is 1:33.

» Only Jacksonville's David Garrard threw more passes in the fourth quarter of games than Cutler, who completed 100 of 167 passes for 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns with just four interceptions.

Cutler is not a finished product, but when you consider his age, production (54 touchdown passes in 37 games) and contract, he has serious trade value. If Cutler is traded, the prorated signing bonus stays behind with Denver. Only his salary, workout bonus and likely-to-be-earned bonuses go to the new team.

Here's a look at Cutler's deal if the roster bonuses are to be paid:
Contract remaining if traded
Year

Salary

Roster bonus

Workout bonus

Cap number
2009
$1,035,000

$0

$100,000

$1,135,000

2010
$1,422,500

$4,000,000

$100,000

$5,522,500

2011
$1,810,000

$12,000,000

$100,000

$13,910,000



So, for $20.567 million, a team can acquire Cutler for three years ($6.86 million annually) and not have to come up with big money until 2011, when the $12 million roster bonus is due. That's a good deal for any team. Plus, it could then use a franchise tag on Cutler (assuming there will be franchise tags in the next collective bargaining agreement).

This year's draft class also must be factored into Cutler's value because he is young enough to play as long as any rookie can. The three top-rated quarterbacks -- Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman -- in the draft all are juniors, which involves risk. All three had fewer career starts in college than Cutler has in three pro seasons (37).

It will take time for any of these guys to develop in the NFL and, as we all know, coaches and front offices don't have the luxury of time. If Stafford is potentially the first pick in the draft, then Cutler is worth more than him on sheer football ability. Factoring in his age and tradable contract, Cutler is worth a second first-round pick.

This notion was confirmed Monday night when a former NFL general manager said to me: "Cutler goes for two No. 1 picks and a player, or he doesn't go at all."

Ask yourself this: How many teams would be better right away with Cutler under center? Detroit, San Francisco, Buffalo, Washington, the Jets, Chicago, Tampa Bay, Minnesota, Seattle, Cleveland, Tennessee and St. Louis all have to entertain that question. As my retired GM friend said, "It only takes one team to realize it and a deal could get done."

Cutler hasn't helped himself with the way he has handled his situation in Denver. On the other hand, a new team might like that he's pressing the issue for a trade and will not even factor in what on the surface appears to be a maturity issue.

So, what would the Broncos do for a quarterback if Cutler is traded? That's an even bigger question and probably more difficult to answer. Do they turn to the draft picks? Do they insist on a quarterback in the trade as a short-term solution? Or do they step back and conclude that they just can't pull the trigger?

The kid from Santa Claus, Ind., would make a nice early Christmas present for some NFL team, but the Broncos may decide he's worth keeping under their tree.

You read this article and think, "Who wouldn't want this guy?"

Then you read this board and think, "Are they talking about the same player?"

I think Quinn will be a good QB. DA will be a pretty good backup. But if we have a chance to get this guy you've got to do it.

But we won't do it for 2 #1s and a player. On that I'd put money. I could see us doing 2 players and a lower pick. But no more than that.

Ya think Dan Snyder in Washington is trying to figure out a way to manipulate the cap to get into this?

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You read this article and think, "Who wouldn't want this guy?"

Then you read this board and think, "Are they talking about the same player?"

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I KNOW!!!! That's why I had to post it up when I saw it.......and I don't think nor have I ever thought we are in the game for Cutler, but that is just my own opinion based on nothing but my own thoughts.

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Ya think Dan Snyder in Washington is trying to figure out a way to manipulate the cap to get into this?

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They have vehemently denied involvement so I would say yeah....

Quote:

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You read this article and think, "Who wouldn't want this guy?"

Then you read this board and think, "Are they talking about the same player?"

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crazy...I don't know what some on the board do not get about the difference between a "proven" Cutler and an "unknown" Quinn or Anderson??

To be fair, I think it is really difficult at this time to know exactly what Mangini or Kokinis believe at all in terms of the roster. Time will tell us, sure. But to say you are sure Kokinis feels the same way about the quarterbacks as you do seems like a bit of a reach.

One thing that has really got me a little annoyed. I question Cutler's leadership and "intangibles" as a quarterback. But please, please stop asking the question of how many games Cutler has won, how many playoff games Cutler has won, and how many Super Bowls has Cutler won. Ask that question about the Denver Bronco's, not Cutler. He wasn't throwing himself any balls last year and he sure wasn't out there playing defense. He doesn't play the game by himself, one versus eleven.

Dan Marino was a helluva quarterback and never won the big one. Peyton took some time getting his as well. Only one team can win the super bowl each year. Having the most cohesive TEAM increases your chances of getting there, not the greatest quarterback.

Great quarterback's make the difference in those "special moments". (Two minutes drills, 3rd and longs, 4th quarter comeback drives) But you need to be good in all three phases of the game in order to put your quarterback in position to win it for you.

you just took out any arguments for, at least, this page. once we switch to the next page they'll be back

But do all those GM's view his character in that same way, that is in comparison to his playing ability ?

Actually every time I watch NFL Network or another Sports/NFL journalist talking about Cutler and they go through a panel on where Cutler will go.

Somebody on the panel...picks the Browns and its alway "PERFECT" cause Brady Quinn is perfect for the Bronco's new offense and would be a great fit.

Which cracks me up cause supposedly we are going to do OUR Variation of the Weiss offense too. So wouldn't that make BQ perfect for us too???

I really don't get these guys sometimes. All I know is get this over with cause its put a damper on our thoughts and hopes of dealing DA. Who the Heck would want DA when they could possibly steal Cutler for a tad more!!

JMHO

That was my point,... That they should or shouldn't is only my problem,...

Ballpeen -

My mistake. I believe I got the topic is little screwed up here. I thought you were saying your sure Kokinis feels the same way you do about our present two QBs. Just was pointing out with the way they have talked (or lack there of for that matter) there is no real way for anyone to know how they feel.

However, onto the topic of Cutler. We completely agree with each other in that he is the better quarterback among the three. I also agree in that I would believe almost any GM in the league would say the same. And your right, you'd be crazy not to inquire about what it would take to trade for Cutler.

Cutler's talent is evident. He's got all the ability in the world. Does he have it between the ear holes? I dont know. I hope the Browns tread carefully through these waters and make sure they make the best decision for the team. Whatever that may be.

i think it's more because mcd is the head coach at denver, so since he was the OC before, it's a given that he'd run as close a system to the one he came from as possible. that would be why he wanted cassel, because he knew what he had in cassel for his system.

mangini is a defensive coach from NE so he has no real ties to the system offensively. through using favre and pennington, he showed that he can use different systems adjusted to the strengths of his quarterback. i do recall, i think, daboll speaking that he would run a variation of the NE system but i also don't think he specified (mangini also went on later to shoot any specifics down by saying the offense would be ever-changing). anyways, the NE offense changed a bit after weiss left, mainly because of their moss and welker acquisitions. i'd say they changed from more ball control (given their limitations at WR) to a more vertical game (having moss stretch the field and welker cover the underneath).

so my take, for what it's worth, is that in denver, you have a rookie head coach who came from a successful offense who is dead set in his ways. he wants his guy, cassel, but can't have him. the closest he can get is not cutler, but is quinn (only by rep since game film isn't sufficient).

cutler can easily fit in any scheme we want, and mangini is on record as saying he'll adjust his scheme to the player, something he did when they took in favre last minute (and they were successful for 2/3 of that season). so you're looking at one place where they're absolutely set in their preference in qb (denver) and one place that needs picks and is willing to adjust based on their qb (cleveland). that's why it makes "perfect" sense that quinn goes to denver and 1) have cutler come here or 2) be part of a 3-way trade that leaves us with DA and picks/other players.

jmho

j/c

www.KFFL.com

Jets | Could Cutler be on the radar?
Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:50:08 -0700

Rich Cimini, of The New York Daily News, reports if the New York Jets decide to make a play for Denver Broncos QB Jay Cutler, they may need to reach out to the Cleveland Browns and Browns head coach Eric Mangini, who the Jets fired as their head coach during the offseason. Three-way trades are rare in the league, but for the Jets to obtain Cutler they'd likely need one of the Browns QBs (Brady Quinn) as part of the compensation to Denver. The Browns, in turn, could come away with draft picks from the Jets. The Jets won't comment on their potential interest in Cutler and cannot due to tampering rules, but a league source noted they have not ruled out making a play for the disgruntled quarterback.

Sounds like just a rehash (if it was written after) Grossi's piece. Circular journalism...If you can even call it journalism.

I don't get these three-way deals. They have the Browns giving up on Quinn to not get a QB in return? Doesn't make sense.

I'd be all for jumping into a three-way if we get Cutler or we send DA to Denver (leaving us Quinn). In no way do I want to be stuck with only DA on our roster. That would be STUPID (unless we got a couple first rounders back)!