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AFC North offseason report card Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker With the busiest portion of free agency coming to an end, it is officially time to evaluate the decisions made by all four AFC North teams. The range of activity in free agency varied this year. For instance, the Baltimore Ravens were extremely active in signing and losing players, while the defending champion Pittsburgh Steelers only visited with a couple of players without reaching deals. Let's examine the moves. Baltimore Ravens Grade: B Key pickups: CB Domonique Foxworth, C Matt Birk, TE L.J. Smith, CB/KR Chris Carr Key losses: LB Bart Scott, C Jason Brown, S Jim Leonhard, CB Chris McAlister (released), Samari Rolle (released) Analysis: Going into free agency, I thought the Ravens were doomed for failure with the amount of big names set to hit the open market. Baltimore certainly lost some of those players, but a creative and cost-effective plan allowed general manager Ozzie Newsome to soften the blow. The Ravens lost three key starters in linebacker Bart Scott, center Jason Brown and safety Jim Leonhard. They also released starting cornerbacks Samari Rolle and Chris McAlister. But Baltimore quickly added talent in free-agent cornerback Domonique Foxworth, veteran center Matt Birk, tight end L.J. Smith and return specialist Chris Carr. Keeping Pro Bowl linebackers Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs was vital. And if the Ravens put together another solid draft class, which is Newsome's forte, Baltimore should be fine in 2009. This good grade is given to the Ravens for their resiliency in coming up with a plan to stay in contention despite losing a wealth of talented players. Cincinnati Bengals Grade: C+ Key pickups: WR Laveranues Coles, QB J.T. O'Sullivan, P Ryan Plackemeier Key losses: WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh, QB Ryan Fitzpatrick, DL John Thornton (still unsigned), OT Stacy Andrews, C Eric Ghiaciuc (still unsigned) Analysis: No one was surprised when former Pro Bowl receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh left Cincinnati for the Seattle Seahawks. But it was surprising when the Bengals paid former New York Jet Laveranues Coles $40 million -- including a whopping $9.75 million in his first year -- to replace Houshmandzadeh. Houshmandzadeh had 90-plus receptions the past two seasons, while Coles is more of a 60 to 70 catch receiver. Someone will have to make up that missing production whether it is a bounce-back year from Chad Ocho Cinco or a career year from one of the young receivers -- Chris Henry, Andre Caldwell or Jerome Simpson -- in the No. 3 role. Keeping tailback Cedric Benson was important, but the team still needs a big-play threat at that position. J.T. O'Sullivan was a decent pickup to back up quarterback Carson Palmer. With Palmer's return, a stellar draft could put Cincinnati in position to surprise next season. Cleveland Browns Grade: D+ Key pickups: LB Eric Barton, LB David Bowens, TE Robert Royal, DL C.J. Mosley, OL John St. Clair Key losses: S Sean Jones, TE Kellen Winslow Jr. (trade), WR Joe Jurevicius (released), OT Kevin Shaffer (released), LB Andra Davis, LB Willie McGinest, RB Jason Wright Analysis: The Browns are cleaning house, and they probably are not done yet. New coach Eric Mangini and first-year general manager George Kokinis are turning over the roster quickly through every avenue possible. The Browns have not retained most of their in-house free agents such as safety Sean Jones and linebackers Andra Davis and Willie McGinest. They also cut offensive tackle Kevin Shaffer and receiver Joe Jurevicius and traded former Pro Bowl tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. for a pair of draft picks. The replacements have not been overwhelming. Former Jets linebackers Eric Barton and David Bowens are both stop-gap players who are 30-plus. Royal is not nearly as dynamic a tight end as Winslow, and Cleveland still has a lot of holes left to fill in the draft. The Browns are clearly starting from scratch, which is why they are attempting to stockpile draft picks. Coming off a 4-12 season, Cleveland appears to be headed for another transition year in 2009. Pittsburgh Steelers Grade: C- Key pickups: None Key losses: CB Bryant McFadden, OT Marvel Smith, QB Byron Leftwich (still unsigned), WR Nate Washington Analysis: Pittsburgh hasn't signed anyone outside of its building. Instead, the team placed its focus on keeping together last year's championship team. The Steelers retained three starters from their offensive line in guard Chris Kemoeatu and tackles Willie Colon and Max Starks and brought back a host of backups and special-teams players. They are staying true to their identity of not being major players in free agency. But it would have been beneficial to add at least one or two offensive linemen from the outside to compete and provide depth. That probably won't happen until next month's NFL draft. Starting cornerback Bryant McFadden bolting to the Arizona Cardinals could be softened if William Gay continues to develop in 2009. The Steelers are banking on it. Pittsburgh also brought in a few intriguing free agents, such as receiver Joey Galloway and cornerback/return specialist Chris Carr, for visits. But its reluctance to pay much on the open market this offseason forced those two players to sign with other teams. link
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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well-deserved...a total overhaul wasn´t necessary...they do it anyway...Mangini makes sure everyone and their mama know he´s the new sheriff in town....at least we saved some psychoanalyst some work for the next 3 years 
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Question: What should Mangini have done, then?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
The Browns are clearly starting from scratch,
I don't know about everyone else,but starting from scratch every few years is really getting old.
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The only grade i agree with is Pittsburgh's, and thats because they haven't really lost anything.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
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Starting from scratch??? No we are not. That is such a BS statement and that reporter has no clue what starting from scratch is. We have a ProBowl LT, NT & WR. We have a young Secondary. We have two young QB's that are no longer rookies. We are far from being the team we were in 1999.
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Well, getting A's the past few years got us no where, might as well try the other side of the coin ....
There are no sacred cows.
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total overhaul .. *LOL* .. your way better than that bro .. way better ...
please tell me how this is a complete overhaul ....
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I´m not sure anymore Diam....this sure starts to smell like a total rebuilding
1. They signed cheap over the hill guys to replace younger and/or supposedly better talent...for 2009 not much of a change talent wise, but it clears the path (hint = more needs next offseason) for an overhaul there
2. They didn´t go after any FA of worth despite having the cap money AND enough needs (Housh? Coles? Wilson? Ward?...instead they sign Mosley with Evans and Holliday out there who are OLDER but simply much better and above all are 3 down DEs)...it´s about talent, they didn´t go after any TALENT....again, short term success doesn´t seem high on their list...who´s gonna run the ball 2010? heck, 2009?
3. They HAVE shipped KW (I do not disagree here) AND are reportedly shopping BE (never been denied by anyone within the org or outside)...leaving the team with 0 Receiver with any noticable track record....they never sniffed at Housh, Coles and now Holt..why? who will catch the balls in 2009? and 2010? Looks like they gonna rely on the draft (hint = rebuild)...problem is: we don´t have 10 1st day draft picks (which we would need at this point) and even if we´d have...a 2nd rounder isn´t even guaranteed to become an average starter at his position AND needs a couple of years at most positions to even get there....you know that, I sure do....they´d have to draft perfectly (which nobody does btw)
4. They let their only young and halfway good FA go creating a HOLE at his position and did NOTHING to upgrade or at least replace him adequatly (I´m ok with letting Jones go, too much of an injury risk and no fit with Pool...but heck, why not look at Wilson, Y.Bell, Sanders or J.Phillips?)....again, they do NOT seem to care for 2009..and that´s a rebuild in my book
5. They reportedly dangle BOTH YOUNG QBs in trade talks and met with QB prospect Sanchez...do you need any more evidence? You know I trust Lombardi and he reported more than once now that Cleveland could surprise with a QB pick early on draft day....even if we don´t do this...the fact that he´s reporting it means there´s some chatter going....you know that, Lombardi ain´t talking out of his ......he at least saw or smelled some fire here
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I don't care about a grade....
I just want to win...
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Quote:
Question: What should Mangini have done, then?
'79, glad you asked *L*
When the first few days of free agency came, and we didn't even think about bringing in name players, I stated this was the direction we were going. Well, here we are.
We didn't HAVE to go the route of a rebuild (which is different than a tear-down). We SHOULD have gone after mid-level free agents who would have helped this team IMMEDIATELY without impacting our future ability to sign players or make cap maneuvers. Guys like Housh, Lewis, Ward, Birk, etc etc would have done that. But we didn't.
So, since we've gone the route of rebuilding, we need to go all the way with that ideal. That means it's time to trade Edwards.
As it stands, even with our upcoming picks, we're going to be damned-lucky to get to 8-8. 4-12 is very possible. Anywhere inbetween is realistic.
We had the chance to get better now.......maybe even compete this year.......without screwing up our future caps or drafts. But we didn't. Now we're in full-blown rebuilding, so there's two more guys to trade (I'd say three, but nobody in their right mind is going to give us jack-chit for that waste Wimbley).
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I´m not sure anymore Diam
Luckly U have me .. cause i am sure ... 
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do you need any more evidence?
yes .. I need alot more evidence .. U even are not sure of a few of your points and the rest is either U reaching, BS or PURE SPECULATION on yours and others part ... we'll take them one at a time ...
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1. They signed cheap over the hill guys to replace younger and/or supposedly better talent...for 2009 not much of a change talent wise, but it clears the path (hint = more needs next offseason) for an overhaul there
who?? give me names .. I'll take a brief at some ...
Shaff .. hes younger but we HATED HIM .. he was NO GOOD ... so I could care less if we got rid of him for a couple guys a few years older ... NO BIGGIE ...
who else .. I can't even think of who else ... dra?? .. willie ... Joe .. NONE YOUNG ... Mckinnie .. nope .....
so please give me names ... and explain ... I can give u a power running scheme up front for the moves we made ... does that not make sense to U if thats why we did it??? .. if not . please explain how were ANY WORSE OFF ..
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2. They didn´t go after any FA of worth despite having the cap money AND enough needs (Housh? Coles? Wilson? Ward?...instead they sign Mosley with Evans and Holliday out there who are OLDER but simply much better and above all are 3 down DEs)...it´s about talent, they didn´t go after any TALENT....again, short term success doesn´t seem high on their list...who´s gonna run the ball 2010? heck, 2009?
THATS LEGITE .... can't argue with U there ... I would have liked to have seen them go after Housh, Coles, ward or Birk ... other than that ... NOTHING INTERESTED ME ... and who's to say we did not place calls to these guys ... and we did not want to spend the $$$ or they were not interested ...
I can get on board with this one .. but IN AND OF ITSELF IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO POINT TO A RE-BUILD ...
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3. They HAVE shipped KW (I do not disagree here)
so why is it even here then ... it can not be a part of a re-build if we BELIEVE IT WAS A GOOD MOVE ... it just can't be ...
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AND are reportedly shopping BE (never been denied by anyone within the org or outside)...leaving the team with 0 Receiver with any noticable track record
reportedly being the key word ... we heard ZERO ABOUT KW ... so why if we were really shopping Brey would there be leaks on this one .. i think this is PURE SPECUALTION based on the fact that the Org. is giving ZERO INFO ...
sorry man .. I do not see Brey going anywhere ... tak to me about this one when it HAPPENS ... not based on RUMOR when this regime is as tight liped as a dead guy ...
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4. They let their only young and halfway good FA go creating a HOLE at his position and did NOTHING to upgrade or at least replace him adequatly (I´m ok with letting Jones go, too much of an injury risk and no fit with Pool...but heck, why not look at Wilson, Y.Bell, Sanders or J.Phillips?)....again, they do NOT seem to care for 2009..and that´s a rebuild in my book
Again .. u agree with the move ... yet u point to it as part of a re-build ... i do not get it .. Jones and Pool play the same position .. so it was not that big of a deal and the rest is a SEPRATE ISSUE ... if we let a LEGITE FS go then we would created a NEW HOLE ... but we did not .. so I do not see the RELEVANCE HERE ...
I don't agree with the fact we let S. Jones go pointing to us giving up on 09 and were RE-BUILDING .. NO WAY ..
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5. They reportedly dangle BOTH YOUNG QBs in trade talks and met with QB prospect Sanchez
*L* .. come on bro .. NO WAY ARE WE DANGLING BQ .. I could care less what the DOLTS are saying ... IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN .. this regime has been so tight lipped its AMAZING .. and I LIKE IT FOR ONE ...
we all know wahts going on there ... DA is gone ar the BACK UP .. and I could care les what is said for POSTURING SAKE ...
U know I like and respect Lombardi also .. but hes talking out his ass here .. he has never liked BQ .. he has been down on him since day 1 ... he is good .. but he is still wrong quite a bit .. and this is one of those times .. HES REACHINNG HERE ON BOTH COUNTS ...
only way BQ goes is if we get Cutler .. and that means END UP WITH JAY ...
bro .. your entire conclusion is based on SPECUALTION (Brey, BQ/DA), Moves U admitted were GOOD (Jones, KW) and the fact we did not go after high priced FA's and a MYTH about us letting better/younger players go for older not as good players( I do not see that at all) ...
so IMO I NEED ALOT MORE EVIDENCE ... If we were in a a court of law and i was playin Peenie for a day .. I'd admonish U for wasting my time and keeping me off the gold course and throw U and your case right out on your ASSES ..... 
we can win now bro ... were not that far off from where we were in 07 .. matter of fact .. i think we could be better than in 07 ...
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I don't care about a grade....
I just want to win...
I agree,...but here's another way to quantify it.
Every time the Browns win a game this coming season, give them a notch up on the grade.
Because there were no playoffs, I'm going to start them at an "F." Moving from there to an "A+" would require 12 wins,....D-,..D,...D+,...C-,...C,...C+,...B-,...B,...B+,....A-,...A,...A+
Simple and objective, if a grade has to be assigned. There is no way to measure this off-season yet, until games are played. If the Browns are 4-12 again, they'll have a C-, only one step higher than the writer has suggested.
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Well, on most scales, a C is average. I'd have a really hard time giving this regime a C+ grade on the season if we only win 6 games when we could have won a couple more if we had gone after some moderately-priced, better-than-what-we-have players.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Really? Hes wrong?
You want us to bring in absolute bums to replace absolute bums....the only difference being they were EM guys back in NY???
This team did not not a need a teardown, it needed to have the glaring holes filled. OLB, MLB, C, RG, RB, WR, FS, CB.........only one of those have been filled...ONE.
Signing Derrick Ward, Matt Birk, Bobby Engram...Torry Holt...or even Ray Lewis....would actually make our team BETTER. Not just DIFFERENT. Birk, Ward especially would have been PERFECT mid level guys, without wasting big bucks.
Poteat, Bowens, Herron, Ivy, St. Claire....are all non producing bums. Barton is the only guy who is going to make any positive impact for this team. We wasted money on those 5 bums, money that coulda signed one or two decent players.
0+0+0+0+0 doesn't equal 5.
The + in the D+ is probably only fair because they got a good deal for KW2.
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Quote:
This team did not not a need a teardown
Nor did it actually get one.
Rogers is here. We didn't dump all our high-priced players. We didn't switch defensive schemes.
In short, we didn't do what Savage did when he got here. THAT was a teardown. This is a rebuild.
Two. Different. Things.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Hell, imagine for a minute if we were to actually trade Edwards and get a 2nd round pick this year for him (just a hypothetical). A lot have said there's a ton of talent in the 2nd this year. With 3 2nd round picks, we could "rebuild" mighty quickly.
And, imagine if we got draft picks for DA.
But, isn't there a limit on how many draft picks you can have in a single draft or something like that?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Not that I'm aware of (which doesn't mean there isn't one). The simple economics dictate that a team can't have 7 1st round picks.
I'm not sure I'd trade Edwards for a 2nd. It'd have to be a 1st.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Isn't 4-12 and essentially unchanged talent wise an F? 
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I'd much rather get a 1st for Edwards, too. I'm just saying that maybe it's a little more realistic to get a 2nd for him (if that's even realistic). Maybe Minnesota's 2nd and Adrian Peterson for Edwards and DA. How about that for a trade??? 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Hehe...Don't wake me up!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We did contact Ward...he signed before coming here. What can you do...the only FA I wanted us to go after besides the possibilities of Suggs or Peppers.
Anything else would be overspending to the extreme.
I'm happy with the voids that we filled with 2nd tier FAs.
Overhaul....The only guy we shipped out was KW2. Which btw in the grades they don't list the draft picks in the PICK UP Department just KW2 in the LOSS department. Well then come draft day and we pick #50 that means when they toss our grades they better not use KW2 to off set the asset cause they would have used it TWICE.
42 players remain on the roster from last year. 9 O starters, 8 D starters.
I don't see the Overhaul.
05...what did we have AD, Lang n McCutch??? on O Faine, Tucker, Heiden, Terrell Smith?
Thats an overhaul.
JMHO - just cause the Bozo in the article thinks we are overhauling don't give it credibility. New Regime...New Touch. Sure, cleaning fat off the bone, Sure.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Still can't assign any grade or objectivity scale until the "talent" is allowed to play.
If they trade Edwards -- I'm not on that bandwagon until after this year is over -- what we get in return has no measurability,..yet.
Good question about the number of allowable picks. My guess is there is a rule, and there are probably 14 ways around it.
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I would like to wait till the whole off-season is over before grading how we did.
Maybe even wait until a few games are played.
That's just me.
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Quote:
Not that I'm aware of (which doesn't mean there isn't one). The simple economics dictate that a team can't have 7 1st round picks.
I'm not sure I'd trade Edwards for a 2nd. It'd have to be a 1st.
No, but I think I would trade him for both of the Giants 2nd rounders.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't see any overhaul...I see bandaids being brought in to get more team oriented and versitile players for what they want to do. Get rid of players who had too many ???????? marks on them.
We let weak backups walk and several starters who weren't producing..
KW ..well we know he wasn't going to last..
I think people forget the team has no identity..you couldn't tell what it wanted to do..and there were too many " Me first" players and guys who were awful. Its not a overhaul but a plan of direction to give this team a personality.
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Quote:
Quote:
This team did not not a need a teardown
Nor did it actually get one.
Rogers is here. We didn't dump all our high-priced players. We didn't switch defensive schemes.
In short, we didn't do what Savage did when he got here. THAT was a teardown. This is a rebuild.
Two. Different. Things.
Hopefully it isn't...however some seem to think we still might move Edwards, or even Quinn. I think if that happens..we are in teardown mode.
If we are rebuilding, hopefully they start building soon, atleast break the ground with the shovel.
All i've seen is roster turnover, not an influx of talent, or even cheap stop gap players that fill needs.
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Just gotta hope that "after a few" isn't 0-3. Now if it were to then finish 13-3, we still couldn't have assigned an appropriate grade at "the few" mark.
Only an opinion,...I'm going to wait for the whole Jello to set up.
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Overhaul / band aids / stop gaps... call it what you want but we are bringing this ship down and starting over. Again.  One of these times they might get it right. Maybe.
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Also - it's not a F. That's gotta count for something. We could be failing at this... 
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I didn't want to make it too easy for the FO,...  But hey, if it IS easy this year becasue of what they have "accomplished" so far,..well, I'll just have to buy a playoff ticket.
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"Starting over" indicates a complete void of players and a "start from scratch" mentality.
I don't see that here.
Same 3-4 defense. Rogers isn't going the way of Cutler. Dumping Winslow was a smart move, not a give-up one. Even the theory of moving Edwards would be considered a proactive move because of what's likely to happen next year with him.
What's going to be funny is that after the draft is over, many who are bemoaning what we've done will suddenly not see things quite the same. That's what happens when people look at the moment and not the path.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think people have different definitions for different words. Whatever we are doing, we are making a 60% fix....call that whatever fits. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You know I respect your land navigation skills, but I'm waiting to see where this compass is pointing. Where is True North, really ? We won't know for quite awhile.
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Quote:
Whatever we are doing, we are making a 60% fix....call that whatever fits.
A ratio? 
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Oorahjoice (Maybe I'm reading too much into that name, but methinks it's a Jarhead reference )
You know I respect your land navigation skills, but I'm waiting to see where this compass is pointing. Where is True North, really ? We won't know for quite awhile.
Not until at least after the draft, that's for sure. Knee-jerkin' is dangerous at this point in time.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
Quote:
Whatever we are doing, we are making a 60% fix....call that whatever fits.
A ratio? 
Quote:
Oorahjoice (Maybe I'm reading too much into that name, but methinks it's a Jarhead reference )
You know I respect your land navigation skills, but I'm waiting to see where this compass is pointing. Where is True North, really ? We won't know for quite awhile.
Not until at least after the draft, that's for sure. Knee-jerkin' is dangerous at this point in time.
You're SO perceptive,... 
You mentioned the "path," so I took off from there. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
And for my next trick.......... Hey, play the puns all day long. God knows things get a little dry around here at times, hehe.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23 |
I think the point about an identity as a team is a valid one. You know, week in and week out, what you are going to get from teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Patriots, Colts. The Browns don't do anything particularly well. They have no identity as a team at all. I believe that is what Mangini and Kokinis are trying to do. Bring in guys that will slowly begin to give us an identity. I think we all agree he has some sort of plan he is carrying out right now. And he seems to be going about it full steam ahead. Let's give it time to take shape.
He told Lerner he could win with this team. And by the way he is going about his business, it all just seems very strategic, I think he feels he can. I do not see this offseason as an overhaul at all. He simply is filling out the roster.
I commend Mangini for having the patience to come into a new team and not feel the need to make a big splash and overpay in free agency. (Much like Ryan buying Bart Scott to the Jets) Mangini is filling out the backend of the roster with his type of guys, guys he knows what to expect. Rather than drafting guys he's unaware of to fill those spots. He'll use the draft to take starters and free agency to fill backup roles. I like that idea with the way money gets tossed around these days in FA. People talk about Housh and Coles but did anyone of us really want the Browns to throw the kind of money they each got for a 31 yr old receiver?? I didnt.
In times like these, Hal Lebovitz would remind us we didn't have a team for four years.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
What's going to be funny is that after the draft is over, many who are bemoaning what we've done will suddenly not see things quite the same. Uh...unless they screw the draft picks 
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum AFC North Offseason Report Card
(ESPN) (Browns get a D+)
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