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Looks to me like someone has been watching a little more of 24 than they should be allowed..... 
Never watched the show.
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Well, it doesn't mean that cops would always be getting killed. It just means that criminals would be getting away.
I know that in my line of work, I believe very little of what people say. It might end up being true, but at first, I'm very skeptical. More often than not, the person has left out a key thing because it hurt their story, or they just outright lied.
"Well, the light was green and the other car went through the red light and hit me.", and then you find out from 20 eyewitnesses that it was the other way around. That kind of thing.
If I was a cop, I would believe even LESS of what people tell me. I don't know a lot of people who fess up when they get pulled over or get in trouble with the cops. It's always excuses, stories, and attempts to be let go. Instead of "yes, I went through the light" it's "the light wasn't red", even though it was.
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So they would have had to wait for backup to arrive? It seems they didn't have that kind of time.
And Rabiddawg, the cop couldn't have run the plate while Moats was still driving because the car was too far ahead of him and wasn't stopping. Then, when they pulled in, people just jumped out of the car and started heading to the hospital. No chance to know who those people were or what they were up to.
Believe me, I'm not saying that the cop is a saint in all this. But I don't agree with people who say he should be fired, either.
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Well, from what I saw in the video, There is no known proof or time table to show how long or far this "pursuit" took place. So, if it is possible and within a "feasible" time-frame, thew call would have been made by me for help....
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General question:
What SHOULD the cop have done? And I'm talking about from beginning when he sees the car go through the red light to the very end?
First thing he would've and should've done is run the plates, before the pullover was ever made. Second is to call for backup as soon as he sees more than two occupants in the vehicle (could be while moving, might not be until stopped). Thirdly, should've attempted to corroborate their story (especially if the plates on the car come back clean, meaning there was nothing outstanding that might indicate that the driver would be a serious threat). The articles say that police and hospital security informed the officer that what they were saying is true. At that point he could've simply escorted Moats and his family members to her room, waited outside while they said their final goodbyes, and ticketed him afterwards.
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You're right, and maybe he did call for backup. I don't know. But if the video shows the entire pursuit, it wasn't very long so the backup may have taken a little while to get there.
Then people would be up in arms that he made them wait while he waited for backup.
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I'm thinking if I'm Moats, I pull over and I tell the cop "look, follow me to the hospital so I can please deliver my family there and we can talk about it then."
Here's what I'm thinking if I'm Moats. His M-I-L's situation was too serious. I would have called the Police Dept and said "I know I'm being pulled over right now, here's what's going on (describe situation). Once I've gotten my wife's family to the hospital, I will speak with this officer, but please let me get my wife to her dying mother's bedside"
While it might not have avoided the whole situation, it certainly couldn't have hurt it anymore than it was. It also could have gotten Moats up to the room in time.
Personally, I think Moats made the best decision available for his wife and family at the time. They didn't know how long the M-I-L had. Who's to say that the officer would have believed him if he'd have stopped? He says he would have, but who's to say he's being honest or actually knows that that's what would have happened? And who's to say that stop would have lasted any shorter than waiting until they got to the hospital? If, as they are trying to contend here, that this is a racial thing, then the officer might have just kept messing with him just to be a butthead.
Like I said, I'd have called the police from my cell and kept driving and let them know what I was doing.
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The cop was a total (donkey) and should be on the un-employment line.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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You're right, and maybe he did call for backup. I don't know. But if the video shows the entire pursuit, it wasn't very long so the backup may have taken a little while to get there.
Then people would be up in arms that he made them wait while he waited for backup.
I don't know, in Dallas, the cops are pretty fast......
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Their are laws and then their are morals and doing the right thing based upon the circumstances. He HAD his flashers on, he STOPPED at the light and proceeded after the other vehicle the intercestion waved him on. He pulled into the ER parking lot of a hospital , his wife and daughter got out of the car with him. The cop should have known it could be an emergency situation and followed them into the hospital to verify. No matter the written law, there ARE reasons and things MORE important than following the law at times. Listening to a loved ones dying last words rank higher than breaking the motor vehicle code. The cop said "it doesn't matter, you ran a red light" after he was told someone was dying.
This would make a perfect case for jury nullification. Take me to court for breaking the law in this case and let the jury see this video......
Look , I understand the risk police face everyday and the stories they must hear. But this cop is also suppose to "Protect and Serve" as part of his sworn duties. Follow the the family into the hospital, If the story doesn't check out at the front desk you can shoot everyone then and write tickets till your out of paper.
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So we're to assume that Moats knew the phone number for the police? Or are you saying he should call 9-1-1?
And NRTU Babe, but I have yet to see any true reason why this cop should be fired. Because he was a jerk? Yup, that's a valid reason right there.
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Your my kind of police officer......shoot first and ask questions later..... 
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Believe me, I'm not saying that the cop is a saint in all this. But I don't agree with people who say he should be fired, either.
Exactly, Reprimanded not fired.
Like i said before if Moats had stopped right away and calmly said what the problem was this probably wouldn't have happened. Heck, if they had all just stayed in the car and calmly explained to the officer the situation when they got to the Hospital it probably wouldn't have happened like that, but when you got a car that won't stop and when it does people are bailing and different ones yelling at you the first thing a cop is supposed to do is calm everyone down and get control off the situation which is what he did, although he did flex his muscles to much to show he was in control. Nothing else he did was wrong.
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Pulling a gun is a pretty bad way to calm people down.
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Oh man, that's rich. Thanks for the laugh!  I can't imagine there are many cops out there that believe everything (heck, anything) that is told to them by someone being pulled over unless there is concrete proof that it's true. For example, if my wife is in the seat next to me in labor and I get pulled over, I'm going to pull over, but you'd better believe I'm going to let that cop know really quickly that my wife is in labor. That's when you get a police escort to the hospital. So what you're saying, essentially, is that if I get pulled over for speeding or running a light, I should tell the cop "My (insert name here) is dying! I have to get to the hospital!" and he should just let me go?
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Heck, if they had all just stayed in the car and calmly explained to the officer the situation when they got to the Hospital it probably wouldn't have happened like that,
Yeah, they had nothing better to do .  Lets hope you are never put in a situation that forces you to use this stupid logic that you typed out. Her Mother is minutes from death so how is she CALMLY going to do anything . At first I thought you were just being obtuse but now I think that you really just don't get it ...and never will.
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Not when you have people bailing from a car you just pulled over and what happens if one of them had been a criminal and had a gun?
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Getting out of a car and screaming at the police officer isn't a very good way to get what you want, either.
IMO, Moats should have pulled over as soon as the cop followed him and quickly explained the situation to him in a calm manner. But, even then, the cop doesn't HAVE to let him get to the hospital. Yeah, it would have been better if he let him go, or at least didn't hold him up, but at no time did he do anything wrong.
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but I have yet to see any true reason why this cop should be fired.
Not because he did his job by the letter of the law.. But because he represents the police force, the city and our sociaty as a whole and FAILED miserable. If he is past the point of being compassionate and helpful to citizens then he should be on a swat team or join the Army.
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I didn't say that it was never necessary, because obviously it is. I said leveling a firearm at somebody is a poor way to calm that person down. If you can find me any instances where that might not be the case, I'd love to hear them.
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I've got one word for you: consequences.
You hustle to the hospital, break a law, there are going to be consequences. You weigh the risks versus the return. Grown ups have to be able to do this quickly.
If it was me in this situation, I'd have probably run through the light, too. But, if the cop was pulling me over, I'd probably pull over very quickly and explain the situation to him. Because if I don't and I keep driving, I run the risk of having a situation like this where I'm STILL too late.
An analogy, although a very poor one because a person's life isn't at stake. But take it for what it's worth.
I've had times where I'm driving and I have to go to the bathroom suddenly and terribly. I could get home much quicker if I speed or roll through stop signs. But, the risk is that I will get pulled over and then I definitely won't get home in time. So, I obey the laws, heck, even closer than if I wasn't in that situation, because I want to MAKE SURE I get home sooner rather than later.
In this situation, how much time did Moats GAIN by going through the light vs. how much time did he LOSE by getting pulled over?
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Yeah i do get it. If they stayed in the car for a few seconds and Moats calmly said look my mother in-law is dying and this is her daughter,my wife, and my mother in-laws husband the cop probably would have let them go and their wouldn't be this big hassle.
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So you're saying that our police forces would be better if the police officers were able to subjectively enforce the laws as they saw fit? Exceptions should be permitted as often as possible?
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Calling 911 isn't the ideal thing, but if you don't know the non-emergency number, what else are you going to do? I think in this situation it would be understandable to use the emergency number.
I completely understand where the cop was coming from wanting to pull him over and being quite ticked off that his lights/sirens were not obeyed. Seriously, he doesn't know if they're dangerous or not etc.
Do I think he should be fired for being a Richard Noggin? No. Should he face some reprecussions for continuing his jerky attitude - not unless they (the Moats') can prove that he was being such a jerk because he is a racist. Without that, he's just being a huge jerk. The PD did the right thing by reassigning him until they do their own investigation on this. But as far as I can tell, this guy is just guilty of being a jackass.
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I agree 100% with you, Babe.
I know that I have dealt with people in positions of authority who act like total jerks, but the fact of the matter is, they do it because they can. They can make your life a living hell if they wanted to.
So, I just avoid having to deal with them. I avoid having to deal with cops by not breaking the law. I don't speed, I don't break the law, I don't do something where I could put myself in a bad situation.
Now, something like this is an anomaly. But I'd like to think I'd handle it better than Moats did and therefore get better treatment in return.
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NO police officer is going to let someone go just because they say they have an emergency. It's not like the example someone used of your wife being in labor, where the police officer can quite clearly see that there is a pregnant woman in your car who is visibly going through labor pains. Tell me how you can look at three people sitting in a car and be able to tell that one of them has a dying family member?
They stopped in the ER parking lot. He told them that his mother in law was dying and said give me the ticket. He wasn't trying to get out of anything. It was quite obvious as to what was going on, especially with another police officer backing up his story.
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(1) Just because he pulled into a hospital doesn't make his story automatically true.
(2) I will say that if other cops or people with more credibility than the driver and his party can back up what the people are saying, it lends credence to hurrying the process up so they can see their relative.
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I didn't say that it was never necessary, because obviously it is. I said leveling a firearm at somebody is a poor way to calm that person down. If you can find me any instances where that might not be the case, I'd love to hear them.
Sorry but they video doesn't show a pointed gun and one story says the wife said he pointed it at her the officer said he drew it but did not point it at any one. Most cops are gonna draw their gun when people bail out of a car.
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I didn't say that it was never necessary, because obviously it is. I said leveling a firearm at somebody is a poor way to calm that person down. If you can find me any instances where that might not be the case, I'd love to hear them.
Sorry but they video doesn't show a pointed gun and one story says the wife said he pointed it at her the officer said he drew it but did not point it at any one. Most cops are gonna draw their gun when people bail out of a car.
Nobody "bailed" out of a car. They got out and walked to the hospital doors. Rather slowly, and with their hands up and facing the officer, as a matter of fact. He gave no pursuit, and did nothing to indicate that it was an issue. He didn't even tell them to come back. So why did he draw his gun?
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Something tells me you wouldn't last a week on a police squad.  If you pull a car over and four people hop out of the car ... you have to worry about your own protection. You have no idea if anybody is armed or may try something. It's pretty easy to play Monday Morning QB when it's not your life on the line. He didn't aim the gun at anybody, and he let the women go because he can't chase four people at once, and he's certainly not going to shoot someone for walking away.  That said ... he quickly became a power-tripped a-hole, and should face some sort of punishment.
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I would imagine because he saw people getting out of the car and he had no idea what they were gonna do. He didn't pursue them because by then he realized they weren't a threat at that moment.
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You don't know what he did with the gun, because he's not on camera.
And you're right, I wouldn't last on a police force, because I have no desire to on one in the first place. What on earth does that have to do with anything?
Police officers have to expect the worst out of every person they encounter. That said, when it is clearly obvious that the threat is not there, as you can tell by watching the first 3 or so minutes of that video (which is all I was able to get through as the buffer kept messing up), then you can exercise a modicum of compassion. Clearly this officer had none, as all he kept talking about was towing Moats' car, ticketing him, and taking him to jail.
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But as far as I can tell, this guy is just guilty of being a jackass.
And how many people can be fired for being caught out being a complete jackass. If i was a jackass to a member of the yacht club that I work at, I'd be fired. If I was a total jackass in the classroom, I'd be fired. That's how it goes.
At some point, with this 20 min altercation, the cop should have recognized that he was wrong and let the guy go. He did not. Therefore, he should get fired.
How hard is it to hold people accountable for being morons and jerks in this day and age?
Cops like this one make the police look bad. This guy's job was to serve the community, to help people. Sometimes I feel that some cops forget that. Those ones are no good, and they should be fired. Period.
I understand the job is hard. Police often are stuck dealing with negative things everyday. Often you deal with bad people, sometimes they're violent. But that just means that you have to hire qualified people to do these jobs..........
Being a full-time teacher can be hard. Having to deal with that authority and responsibility is not always enjoyable, in fact it's one of my least favorite parts of the job. That's why I am not going to do it until I'm prepared and willing to take on the responsibility that goes with it. If you're a teacher and you can't adequately do your job, you should get out. You're not helping.
This case should be similar for cops. As far as I can see it, this guy missed one of the main points of the job. He is an embarrassment to police officers everywhere and helps give them a bad name. He should be canned. Period.
EDIT: BrownsBabe - I dunno if I was attacking you or your position. I didn't really mean you in general at least. I just think the guy should be fired. I was just using your quote to make my point.
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 03/26/09 03:47 PM.
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I'm not sure you read what I've been posting. After 3 minutes ... I agree the cop became a complete a-hole and should probably be punished accordingly. The initial part of the encounter, I can understand him being skeptical, unholstering a gun, etc. By the time Moats had settled down (which wasn't long) he probably should of escorted him into the building.
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Cops like this one make the police look bad. This guy's job was to serve the community, to help people. Sometimes I feel that some cops forget that. Those ones are no good, and they should be fired. Period.
Here's a newsflash for you: with money tightening up for all citizens, and all gov't. agencies, cops are going to be ticketing more and more people. It's called revenue.
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Here's a newsflash for you: with money tightening up for all citizens, and all gov't. agencies, cops are going to be ticketing more and more people. It's called revenue.
So that makes it okay??
Another good point that I heard on a sports radio talk show today ... this comes a week after a few cops in Oakland were shot and killed on a routine traffic stop. So I don't think anyone can really say that this was "obviously" the situation when he first pulled them over ... however, after about 5 minutes, it did become pretty apparent what the situation was, and the guy continued to be a jackass. Something that would get pretty much anybody at any other job (outside of professional athlete) fired.
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Quote:
Here's a newsflash for you: with money tightening up for all citizens, and all gov't. agencies, cops are going to be ticketing more and more people. It's called revenue.
So that makes it okay??
Nope, never said it did. It's just a fact. Nothing more, nothing less. Sorry I didn't preface it by saying "this does not directly relate to this one, certain, individual police stop, but ....."
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I can tell you if it had been me rushing to the hospital, the S.O.B. would have had to shoot me in the back, because I would have gone into the hospital.
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Another good point that I heard on a sports radio talk show today ... this comes a week after a few cops in Oakland were shot and killed on a routine traffic stop.
So that makes it okay for the cop to act like a jerk? (just using your line of reasoning here, sorry).
How about this: there were probably 10's of thousands of traffic stops in this country from the time the cops in Oakland got shot up until this cop pulled his macho cop routine......why should he be excused for being mr. tough guy? Just because there was a shooting somewhere else?
It's obvious the driver wasn't going anywhere, why act like a jerk? Why didn't the cop call for backup when he was chasing the suv? Being a cop can be dangerous - as dangerous as working on a road repair crew. If I'm a cop, I turn my lights on, and the vehicle doesn't stop, I'm calling for help. We end up at the hospital, family gets out and says "mom/mom in law is dying, can you hurry and give me my ticket" I'm not going to play Macho cop.
There are thousands of traffic stops daily. When one goes bad, we hear about it. That doesn't give the "law" the authority to play judge and jury either.
Using your logic, perhaps it would've been best if the cop shot the red light runner first?
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have you read anything I said?
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