DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Moats Hasseled by Cop...mother-in-law dying

Yes, you spent 5 paragraphs going off on me as if I was excusing the guy for acting like a jackass ... when I've spent most the thread saying he was definatly in the wrong and should br getting punished for it. And then you end it with a "using your logic the cop should of shot him at the stop light."

Exactly which logic, where? What have I said that would even come to suggesting something like that?? I brought up the point about the cops in Oakland because I wasn't responding directly to you ... rather the people who seem to think he was in the wrong for unholstering his gun initially when everyone had popped out of the vehicle. For the first minute or so of the situation, I don't think he didn't anything all that wrong. Although after that though ...

Some cops are just a-holes.
Years ago when my older brother was around 15 he got hit by a motorcycle while delivering newspapers. His brain swelled up in his skull and he was close to death in the hospital. A cop actually came into the hospital went up to my father whose son was close to dying and actually gave my dad a ticket for my brother for jaywalking.

If he was jaywalking fine, but come on, either let that ticket go because of the circumstances or issue it at another time. What an piece of crap that cop was.

Thank God my brother pulled out of it and is fine today.
I appreciate cops but some of them have no idea.

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I agree with ya DC. From what was told i don't see where the cop really did anything wrong.

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C'mon man, the guy drove and parked his car at a HOSPITAL! The first thing out of the officers mouth should have been, "Is there an emergency or something that brought you to the hospital?" Don't ya think????

Any intelligent and responsible Police officer should have observed as much, don't ya think???

I watched the first part of the video. My impression was that Moats Handled the situation wrong at the start and then the Cop compounded it and made it worse.

Exiting the car and yelling at the cop is not the best way to get off on the right foot. Then when the cop asks for your insurance telling the cop that you don't have any is really boneheaded.

The cop became an ass later, but the whole sad situation was framed by how moats handled the first few minutes of the encounter.

I do not blame the cop at all for being suspect of an individual who runs from the cop, immediately exits the vehicle, yells at the cop and then says that he doesn't know where or have insurance.

You can blame the cop all you want for his treatment (some of it deserving), but lets not lose site of the fact that Moats did not act like an angel in all of this.

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My sentiments exactly.

Yes the cop was a bit of a jerk but does he warrant being fired=NO, reprimanded=YES.

If somebody that you knew was going to die any second I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate a cop messing around with you at that time. I just would have ran into the hospital myself. I'm sure the cop would have caught on soon enough when he went in there after him.

It is a tricky situation for a cop, but when he said his mother in law is dying, the cop should have just been a little more level headed about the situation.

Agreed! Even when the cop had verified proof he showed no compassion for the man. See quote below from article on www.foxnews.com:

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When another officer came with word that Moats' mother-in-law was indeed dying, Powell's response was: "All right. I'm almost done."

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Look- I'm not going to get into who was right or wrong in this scenario... Human Interaction is messy more times than not. Peoples' intentions, motivations and the way the handle themselves get mixed up in the "what ifs" all the time.

But I will say this much: I really, really wish that the officer who detained Moats had followed him to the oncology ward to see (in my best Paul Harvey imitation) "the rest of the story." A man lost his only chance to say goodbye to a loved one because of how this all went down.

If nothing else, it would have given a 25-year-old a "life lesson" that could have potentially made him a better person. That lesson was lost for him, as was the opportunity for Moats to have an important "life experience" in his own right.

For both men, the events of that night deprived them both of a richly Human experience... the kind that makes us all equals, reduces the pettiness of our daily experiences to exactly what they are, and shows us what Life is really all about.

Every action has a consequence. There are no do-overs. This one's in the books- for everyone involved.

Now, it will most probably become a tawdry media circus, as most incidents like this become.... and that's just another loss- for people who deserved more.



This is truly sad for everyone.

Well shoot since Clem beat me to a nice post.. Im agreed.

Video time line approx....

7:40 - Hospital security confirms to the officer that Mr. Moats' mother-in-law had coded

12:50 - officer states, "...almost done"

16:50 - Mr. Moats is free to go

9 minutes from confirmation of Mr. Moats' claim by hospital security?
4 minutes from "almost done" to free to go after a nurse has also confirmed the mother-in-law's dire condition and a fellow officer is obviously trying to hurry things along?

I don''t give a damn about how Mr. Moats originally acted. I could have likely reacted in the same way. You wouldn't? Think about it. Walk a mile in Mr. Moats' shoes. I not only have a great wife, but a great mother-in-law. That officer may have had to tackle me on the way to the hospital door long before the 7:40 confirmation.

I have both family and friends that work either for the SPD or are / have been deputies. I understand protocol. I understand that this citizen acted according to his trying circumstances.

I understand that this officer was wrong.

What's even crazier out of all of this is the fact that the Dallas Police Chief publicly "apologized" to the Moats family for the behavior of this officer. So, maybe some of the arguments made in this forum are valid, however; I stand by my position that the officer could have been more "compassionate" than what he displayed.

j/c

I found photo of the officer:

Apparently not, cause I was going to post the your same response. =)

Dallas officer delayed NFL player as relative died
By SCHUYLER DIXON, Associated Press Writer
4 hours, 41 minutes ago


DALLAS (AP)—A police officer was placed on administrative leave Thursday over a traffic stop involving an NFL player whom he kept in a hospital parking lot and threatened to arrest while his mother-in-law died inside the building.

Officer Robert Powell also drew his gun during the March 18 incident involving Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats in the Dallas suburb of Plano, police said.

“I can screw you over,” he said at one point in the videotaped incident. When another officer came with word that Moats’ mother-in-law was indeed dying, Powell’s response was: “All right. I’m almost done.”

Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle apologized to the family and announced that Powell would be on paid leave pending an internal investigation.

“When we at the command staff reviewed the tape, we were embarrassed, disappointed,” Kunkle said. “It’s hard to find the right word and still be professional in my role as the police chief. But the behavior was not appropriate.”

Powell, 25, a three-year member of the force, stopped Moats’ SUV outside Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano after Moats rolled through a red light.

Police officials said Powell told his commanders he believed he was doing his job, and that he drew his gun but did not point it. Kunkle said Powell was not necessarily acting improperly when he pulled his weapon out, but that once he realized what was happening should have put the gun back, apologized and offered to help the family in any way.

“His behavior, in my opinion, did not exhibit the common sense, the discretion, the compassion that we expect our officers to exhibit,” Kunkle said.

Moats’ wife, who was in the car along with other relatives, said Powell pointed his weapon at her.

“He was pointing a gun at me as soon as I got out of the car,” Tamishia Moats told The Dallas Morning News.

Ryan Moats told KRLD-FM in Dallas in a phone interview Thursday that after the officer pointed the gun at his wife, he pointed it at him. “I just tried to stay as still as possible to not scare him or do anything to make him react,” he said.

He earlier told the newspaper he thought Powell should be fired but backed off that in his radio interview.

“All I know is what he did was wrong,” Moats said. “He stole a moment away from me that I can never get back. I’m really not the judge on what should happen to him.”

The Moats family did not immediately return messages left by The Associated Press. Powell did not respond to requests for comment through the Dallas police union.

Video from a dashboard camera inside the officer’s vehicle, obtained by Dallas-Fort Worth station WFAA-TV, revealed an intense exchange in which the officer threatened to jail Moats.

He ordered Tamishia Moats, 27, to get back in the SUV, but after pausing for a few seconds, she and another woman rushed into the hospital. She was by the side of her mother, 45-year-old Jonetta Collinsworth, when she died a short time later from breast cancer.

“Get in there,” said Powell, yelling at Tamishia Moats as she exited the vehicle. “Let me see your hands!”

“Excuse me, my mom is dying,” Tamishia Moats said. “Do you understand?”

Ryan Moats explained that he waited until there was no traffic before proceeding through the red light. When Powell asked for proof of insurance, Moats grew more agitated and told the officer to go find it.

“My mother-in-law is dying! Right now! You’re wasting my time!” Moats yelled. “I don’t understand why you can’t understand that.”

As they argued, the officer got irritated.

“Shut your mouth,” the officer said. “You can either settle down and cooperate or I can just take you to jail for running a red light.”

By the time the 26-year-old NFL player received a ticket and a lecture from Powell, about 13 minutes had passed. When he and Collinsworth’s father entered the hospital, they learned Collinsworth was dead.

Earl Jackson, Collinsworth’s father, said he knew what Powell was doing was wrong. “This guy, he wouldn’t listen to nobody,” Jackson said in an interview with Dallas-Fort Worth station KDFW-TV.

Moats said he wouldn’t have had a problem with the officer giving him a ticket after letting him go into the hospital.

“I don’t know what he was thinking,” he told KRLD-FM. “Basically, I was just shocked. I was very shocked that he wasn’t budging on it. I even said I can’t believe that this was happening.”

Kunkle said the video showed that Moats and his wife “exercised extraordinary patience, restraint in dealing with the behavior of our officer.”

“At no time did Mr. Moats identify himself as an NFL football player or expect any kind of special consideration,” Kunkle said. “He handled himself very, very well.”

The Moats family, who are black, said they can’t help but think that race might have played a part in the white officer’s behavior.

“I think he should lose his job,” Ryan Moats said.

When the exchange was at its most contentious, Powell said he could tow Moats’ SUV if he didn’t have insurance and that he could arrest him for fleeing because he didn’t immediately stop when Powell turned on his sirens. The pursuit lasted a little more than a minute.

“I can screw you over,” Powell said. “I’d rather not do that. Your attitude will dictate everything that happens.”

The ticket issued to Moats was dismissed, Dallas police spokesman Lt. Andy Harvey said.

Texans spokesman Kevin Cooper said the team had no comment.

Moats, a third-round draft choice of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2005 out of Louisiana Tech, was cut by the Eagles in August and later signed with the Texans. In three seasons as a backup, he’s rushed for 441 yards and scored four touchdowns.

He was a standout at Bishop Lynch High School, a private school in Dallas, rushing for more than 2,600 yards and 33 touchdowns as a senior.



http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-player-stopped&prov=ap&type=lgns

I still say the cop should be fired. He was to worried about being on his own power trip, and caused part of the family to miss being there when a loved one passed away. there is no excuse for that.

And I still say that I don't necessarily agree with everything the officer did but given the circumstances, I understand why he wasn't just willing to let the guy walk away.

Firing the guy sets a scary precedent... what happens next time a cop stops somebody and they spout off some story about why they need to go in a hurry and the cop lets them because he's afraid of being fired and it turns out it really was a bad guy?

I have refrained from comment until now because I was not able to view the car cam tape. ESPN showed it this am on Sportscenter, and the Police Chiefs comments as well.

I don't think this officer will be allowed to drive a squad car ever again. When you embarrass the Police Chief to the point where he has to grovel and apologize publically, you are simply not going to have your job for long.

If by some miracle (union), he retains his position you can bet money it's going to be the most menial paper pushing job possible with the force.

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How about if YOUR kid was walking somewhere, got injured, and you got a call that he was dying.......would you rush to the hospital then stand there for 15 minutes waiting politely for a ticket for running a red light while your kid died?

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Ok.. fair enough. Now what if your wife/mom/daugter was raped by a serial rapist and then you come to find out that the cops had him at a traffic stop the day before but let him run off because he gave them a story about his wife being in labor and having complications and blahblahblah?

As I said, errors were made and the cop made some of them... So reprimand him if you must, suspend him, retrain him.... I just don't see where firing the guy serves any real purpose.

He isnt comparing rape to the traffic stop.

Thank you for saving me the time of explaining that.

Ok Arch... another question. If the mom had died 15 minutes earlier or 15 minutes later in which case this time would not have mattered, would you still think he should be fired?

Arch,

Getting out of the car and fleeing the Vehicle is going to raise alot of red flags for an officer. that is acting like a fugitive. When an individual does that, the officer has no clue if the suspect is:

A. Trying to get to dieing relative.
B. Someone with a warrent trying to get away from the cops (fugative)
c. Someone with incriminating evidence in the car.
d. Driver of a stolen car. trying to escape.

The point is that at the time, the cop did not know what was going on. You cannot tell me that this was not an emotional situation for the Cop as well.

Should he have let Moats go sooner? yes. Did he act like an ass? Yes, but should he have made sure that Moats wasn;t any of B-d as well. I think he should have and had a right to.

my biggest question about this situation is what would have happened if Moats had let the cop approach the car and he Explained the situation.

My guess is that the cop would have been much more understanding, and Moats would have made it to his mother in laws death bed, but we will never know.

My point is that the cop was an ass, but I completely support the cop for the first 4 to 5 minutes of the video. he should get reprimanded for the rest. he handled the situation horribly, but so did moats.

You stay in your vehicle until the officer approaches. You cannot blame the officer for the whole situation. Some of the blame is the fault of Moats, and that is my point.

Too many people are willing to call for the officers head, but not acknowledge that Moats contributed to the situation.

As with most confrontations between two human beings. Both parties contributed to the situation. If moats had not made the sitution emotional for the cop from the get go, as outlined above, then I would be right there with you saying the cop was completely at fault. But with how the situation happened. All parties share blame.

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Oh, and notice I never said he should be fired.....

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My apologies then, I must have picked that up from somebody elses post.

I don't think anyone is saying the officer was wrong for not letting moats go within the first fifteen seconds. I dont' think anyone is even saying the cop acted improperly at the beginning. That's not the issue.

The issue, is that at a certain point, he knew the story was true. Now, mabye that point is different for different people. I get that. But even THIS cop, at a certain point, figured it out. He knew that Moats wasn't a rapist fugitive, knew that he was telling the truth, and knew that he wasn't a threat. At taht point, and way beyond, this cop acted like a an ass.

I'm amazed at the restraint Moats had. I think I would have told him I'm going in to see my mother in law one last time, and if you want to shoot me in the back, go ahead. Of course, I'd probably be recovering from a gunshot wound to the back right now, so Moats did the right thing.

and honestly, i do think race played a part. I certainly wouldn't put it past this guy. He showed no grasp of the human condition whatsoever. Not the person we want making life or death judgments for us.

I feel pretty much the same. I watched the 1st two minutes of the video and it is obvious the officier didn't have a clue what the situation was and even more obvious that he didn't care to find out. Thus all that was accomplished was him making a bad situation even worse.

Being a cop has got to be one of the toughest jobs around. I know I wouldn't have the temperment for it either.

j/c

from digg.com, here's a story where it actually did lead to a death, the cop pulled over a guy who was driving his mom to the hospital due to shortness of breath, and wouldn't let him leave until he wrote the ticket...she died.

http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Woman_Dies_While_Cop_Writes_Ticket

~Lyuokdea

Moats appeared to be in a panic as would I in that situation. He probably acted inappropiately, but again, given the circumstances, it's forgiveable.

But when the nurse came out and tried to explain it to the officier, that should have been enough right there for the cop to know,, ok, maybe this guy is telling the truth,, I'll go with him into the hospital and see. But no, he keeps up with attitude with Moats... even threatens him...

Then the other cop shows up, sees the situation, tells Powell that his mother in law is dying,, and Powell says,, Ok, I'm almost done..

I support police 99.9% of the time. I guess because my experiences have been more positive than negative.. But this time, I can't help feeling as if the cop just blew it.

I guess the dallas police feel that way also given the apology they offered up. And they put the cop on paid leave as well.. My guess is they know he blew it also.

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The two women tried to leave the scene and did flee, and moats yelled at the cop.

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that's true,, two women did leave in a hurry,, but they were running INTO the hospital.. Moats didn't run, he stood there.. and yeah, he was excited and probably didn't handle it as well as he could have, but then again, I'm not sure who among us would have. I mean given the circumstances.

Bottom line.. Moats apologized ( through a written release ). His boss and all the management apologized in a press conference and the ticket was suspended/revoked. I guess society at large has spoken. Thank goodness.