DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Are we Devalueing our Country?

I hate politics....I am neither Democrat nor Republican...I am of the belief that neither party has served us well. I believe in smaller government an Ideal promised to us by the Republican party and then when in power chose to increase its size.

But now we are heading into disaster. A spending spree of government at a time of history that warrants DOWN SIZING...we will be heading down a chaotic path at this new policy of spend.

Here is one politicians response from a mirror country of our economics but one that is around 1 year ahead of the path we are taking.

http://www.youtube.com/v/94lW6Y4tBXs

Just thought I'd share...and the common people can do something. For the first time in our lives...Open our mouths - don't sit back and complain and fret.

Tell our representatives they better start acting responsibly or else they will no longer represent us.

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION...we have become too docile as a nation and a nation of procrastenators.

http://www.youtube.com/v/94lW6Y4tBXs

I've said my peace...all we can do is Learn, educate ourselves and act. These politicians are not evil people. Their intentions are good - we just have to remind them of their principles and who they serve!

JMHO

Transcript of Hannan's remarks to PM Gordon Brown:

U.K. MEP Daniel Hannan: Transcript of His Attack on Gordon Brown

U.S.News

Prime Minister, I see you’ve already mastered the essential craft of the European politician, namely the ability to say one thing in this chamber and a very different thing to your home electorate. You’ve spoken here about free trade, and amen to that. Who would have guessed, listening to you just now, that you were the author of the phrase ‘British jobs for British workers’ and that you have subsidised, where you have not nationalised outright, swathes of our economy, including the car industry and many of the banks? Perhaps you would have more moral authority in this house if your actions matched your words? Perhaps you would have more legitimacy in the councils of the world if the United Kingdom were not going into this recession in the worst condition of any G20 country?

The truth, Prime Minister, is that you have run out of our money. The country as a whole is now in negative equity. Every British child is born owing around £20,000. Servicing the interest on that debt is going to cost more than educating the child. Now, once again today you try to spread the blame around; you spoke about an international recession, international crisis. Well, it is true that we are all sailing together into the squalls. But not every vessel in the convoy is in the same dilapidated condition. Other ships used the good years to caulk their hulls and clear their rigging; in other words – to pay off debt. But you used the good years to raise borrowing yet further. As a consequence, under your captaincy, our hull is pressed deep into the water line under the accumulated weight of your debt We are now running a deficit that touches 10% of GDP, an almost unbelievable figure. More than Pakistan, more than Hungary; countries where the IMF have already been called in. Now, it’s not that you’re not apologising; like everyone else I have long accepted that you’re pathologically incapable of accepting responsibility for these things. It’s that you’re carrying on, wilfully worsening our situation, wantonly spending what little we have left. Last year - in the last twelve months – a hundred thousand private sector jobs have been lost and yet you created thirty thousand public sector jobs.

Prime Minister, you cannot carry on for ever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecedented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt. And when you repeat, in that wooden and perfunctory way, that our situation is better than others, that we’re ‘well-placed to weather the storm’, I have to tell you that you sound like a Brezhnev-era apparatchik giving the party line. You know, and we know, and you know that we know that it’s nonsense! Everyone knows that Britain is worse off than any other country as we go into these hard times. The IMF has said so; the European Commission has said so; the markets have said so – which is why our currency has devalued by thirty percent. And soon the voters too will get their chance to say so. They can see what the markets have already seen: that you are the devalued Prime Minister of a devalued government.

I wish someone in our Congress would stand up and say this:

... you cannot carry on forever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecedented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt.

I posted that Hannan deal Friday night but apparently it was posted somewhere else on the board, so it was deleted.

Good stuff.

I agree 100% with you on that Dave.

Forgive me for the oncoming rant. It's something that I've said many times before and will continue to say.

As Eo said about Taxation without representation I also have to say we have to stop Double Taxation.

Our founding fathers fought the American Revolution because of many reasons but those 2 reasons were first and foremost amonst all the reasons. They are now rolling over in their graves and in disbelief that this once great country that they founded has come full circle and is back to the 2 of the things that made them revolt from the British Rule that they so hated.

Don't believe me about double taxation? Go buy a pack of cigarettes.......it's not double tax but triple if you want to know the truth of the matter. There is the federal excise tax, then the state excise tax and THEN you have to pay sales tax. Another thing that is killing our economy. Yes, I am a former smoker but I also know that this country was paid for from the time of our founding fathers with tobacco money. We are now trying to phase out smoking completely but does anyone realize what that's going to do to tobacco farmers? Put them out of business. There comes in the unemployed problem. I do realize that they can start growing different crops but to do that they will have spend lots of money to revamp those tobacco farms so that they can actually farm something else. Where will that money come from? Not from the money generated by the growing and sale of tobacco.

We have become a namby pamby society that has a really nasty tendancy to whine about things but not stand up for ourselves and tell our congressmen, representatives, ombudsman, senators or even our president how we truly feel about what our government has done to this country.

People wonder how things can deteriorate to the point where the FBI has a standoff with "whackjobs" like those folks in Wacco, Texas. Well, it's because they got fed up with the government and wanted to do something about it but went about it the wrong way. If we choose to allow ourselves to be pounded into the dirt and told we are worthless and don't deserve the jobs that are being outsourced to other countries we have no one to blame but ourselves. We have to put our feet down and stop the bleeding of this once glorious country.

There are many things that are wrong with this country and it's because we will not and do not want to stand up for ourselves...let someone else do it, I'm too busy. Enough is enough people. Our ancestors are cringing because of how wishy washy we have become. We are a society of we want it now, we want instant gratification.

How many of you out there could actually survive if Y2K had happened? Not many. How many of you could actually survive a major disaster, war or holocaust? Not many. How many of you out there could survive without electricity, running water or heat? Not many, you wouldn't know the first thing of surviving without the easy stuff we are taking for granted. I for one know that I can survive without electricity, running water or even heat. It's not something I WANT to do but I know I could do it if I had to. Survival is something that we have forgotten. That is also something that we have to remember about this once great country. Our forefathers were adventurous and far seeking in their goals and ideals.

They didn't Go West to give up and die, they went there to begin a new life and give us more freedoms than they had. They founded new cities and towns and look what we have done with that. We whine and complain because WE have destroyed the economy and environment. But yet are we doing anything to change that? No, we sit idly by and bemoan the fact that things are so bad but we can't do anything. BULL!!! We can do something. We can speak up and tell our political representatives that we are unhappy and we want change. WE CAN CHANGE this country.

One of the biggest complaints I have is that NO ONE takes responsibility for their actions. If they do something and it backfires in their face and turns out bad they look to blame everyone but who did the deed....themselves. But if it works like a charm they are all over the deed claiming their glory.

Our children, grandchildren and future is in grave danger of never amounting to much more than a pile of rubble because we have coddled these snot nosed brat children into adulthood and they feel that they are OWED everything. Whose fault is that? It is our fault for allowing everyone to tell us that we were not allowed to discipline our children. There is a big difference between discipline and abuse but there is also a very fine line between the two.

This country really needs to step back and take a good look at what it has done to itself and we as individuals have to take a look at what we have ALLOWED to happen by not speaking up intelligently.

I for one am sorry for all the sadness that I see in this beautiful country that could have been avoided. The HAVES don't give a damn if those that HAVE NOT are in this country or not. They will give their charity to other countries and allow the people that really need here in this country go hungry and homeless. There are things that can be done from within to make this country great again.

The government can help get this country back on track if they would just change a few things. If you are already a wealthy person running for public office then you should do it pro bono. If you are a poor person that is running for office becaue you feel that you voice needs heard then there should be a SMALL stipend. But going into politics to become wealthy isn't why you should get into it. It should be for all the right reasons....to help create change for the better. Not keeping things as they are.

Sorry about this rant but I had to get it off my chest.

But to answer the question....IMO, yes, we are devaluing the country....or dollar.

The goal is one currency....call it a Amero...but the only way for that to happen is to bring our currency more in line with Mexico and Central America....Canada will do what we do in natural course, so it is our currency that has to devalue.


We are doing it right now.

There are traitors amongst us.

Part of me understands why we need to spend to get out of a recession.

If you don't spend, more companies incur losses and more jobs are cut.

But part of me wants to be fiscally responsible as well.

I don't know...all I know is I'm fed up with the two party system.

Changing the country is a double edged sword. The people that need to do the changing--i.e. vote in a third party, or throw the imcumbents out--are the ones who also need an attitude change.

I don't see it getting fixed before I check out.

See what I mean ?

Then let US the PEOPLE spend our OWN hard earned money on the products or services provided by those companies - instead of taking that money out of our hands and have 10% find its mark while 90% is spent on Beauracracy (sp).

Let the government make laws providing incentives for us to procure those product and services.

Eventually for every penny spent to "SAVE" so called jobs we are going to TAX other business into ruination and lose way more jobs then we are going to save in this process. Its truly a no win proposition - Look Russia, China have looked towards capitalism to pull them up out of the economic ranks...and us like idiots are taking our strength and following the lead of INEPT Economic standards.

Sorry I understand how dynamic the present administration looks - but you cannot tell a book by its cover. READ THE BOOK is all I ask of the youth.

JMHO

I think the Clinton years showed best how to control things - a Democratic President combined with a Republican Congress.

The trouble with those "economic" output figures, is it represents a lot of product that isn't even made here.

I think this problem is almost too big to actually ever be solved. It's a ball with no laces. We'll never get its grip correct.

To answer the question plainly...no...we are OVERvaluing our country.

America as a nation rose because it's people -- NOT it's government -- had principles, conviction and a work ethic.

The mutated and current American people lack those attributes.

I want this country's government to fail so that it will learn it's lesson. I want no bloodhsed in the process. A double-sided request?

I hope not.

Violence is not the answer. Neither is our current path.

Violence IS the answer,....an overwhelming violent 3rd party, no incumbent show at the polls. People need to get violent about it,....but it's not going to happen.

You're not catching my analogy, so you get a semantics Mulligan.

"Violent" as in powerful, or forceful,.... but not as in a 68 Detroit convention or clinic fire-bombing.

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all I know is I'm fed up with the two party system.

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I read that on here from time to time and let me tell you (as a guy who lives in a country with a three-party system (now it's more than three, for that matter):

It's still the same old crap. Except now the power is so spread out they have trouble getting anything done. Real change comes from the will of the people...too many sheep, though.

I understand that to an extent: most are to busy worrying about their jobs, kids and bills, and don't have a lot of time to concentrate on upending the greasebags in control. Worse, they just fill out a ballot without knowing a lot of who they're voting for.

It is also synonymous with evidently which would be mean obviously or clearly....

Thanks for clearing that up the first time....apparently you misinterpreted my comment in the last post.

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I'm just callng an overhaul a third party. Incumbents OUT !

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Okay.. but they wanted Reagan/Bush out and we got Clinton... They wanted Clinton/Gore out and we got Bush/Cheney... they wanted a change from that and we got Obama.. is it me or are we headed steadily down hill in our quest for "change"?

what a great speech....saw it in the thread peen posted....just had to watch it again....

ron paul says alot of stuff about whats wrong with our country, but nobody seems to listen...

would be nice to see what happens down the road....


i don't really think we are 'devaluing our country'....except for the fact that businesses are fleeing manufacturing in this country...now that i think about it, they are moving any job that they can out....tech support....research and development....company headquarters...you name it...

when this happens it puts people out of work....

the result of this is the lowering of wages, because more people are competing for the few jobs that remain...

devaluing our spending power, or future is more like it....

now the companies that were 'doing it right' are gonna get hit, and go under...

inflation is gonna kill us when all this cash gets into the system....


two of the biggest problems i see are the...

federal reserve.....why does this gov't have to borrow from them?....inflation is a hidden tax, that affects us all....and it comes from the meddling of the fed in regards to the money suppply...

i used to think the gold standard was the solution, but i'm not sure if that would totally work.....but we need a more fixed currency...

the other problem is our desire for 'free trade' that would be fine and dandy if everyone played by the same rules....but they don't....its more like a flight to cheap wages, no workers rights, and no epa restrictions....


the third problem is the sheer size of our gov't.....we're an empire...we're stretched out all over the globe, and we are suffering at home...there are so many gov't jobs thats its ridiculous....

entitlements are crazy....the poor used to be taken care of by the church, and private citizens....the gov't should take care of those who can't take care of themselves....not those who don't feel like it...but the opportunity has to be there for them too....


one thing i would love to see is them getting rid of voting for all this crap in one lump package.....

they should have to vote on one issue at a time....find out where everyone stands...

cut out all the 'oh, i didn't read it all....or i missed that...

if they wanna work 100 hours a week spending our money, then fine.....but i bet only the necessary stuff would get brought to the floor and passed....

heres another article talking about the speech....

That Speech By Daniel Hannan: Fiat Money and Inflation

by Chris Clancy



I must admit I took no satisfaction at seeing the man we used to call the "Iron Chancellor" being savaged in an open arena – but someone had to say it. Bailouts, stimulus packages, interest rate cuts, quantitative easing and anything else they can think of just will not work. The reaction of the Prime Minister to this scathing attack was embarrassing. His great strength as Chancellor was that he gave the impression of being both able and formidable – you took him on at your peril. Not so now.

They say that history tells us everything, even the future. It has given us repeated lessons about fiat money and inflation. Hannan said it about as clearly as it can be said – you cannot spend your way out of recession any more than you can borrow your way out of debt.

But we know this already. The dot.com bubble bust was followed by a deliberate policy of inflation which was the principle cause of the present crisis. Let’s go back. Japan. They’re twenty years into it now. What started their problems? Inflation following the Plaza Accord. Let’s keep going back. The 1970’s and the emergence of stagflation. The Keynesians said it couldn’t happen. The cause? Inflation, trying to spend your way out of recession. 1977 – The UK took their begging bowl to the IMF. Two years later Paul Volcker was appointed Fed. Chairman in the USA. Inflation was not creating jobs just higher prices. He called a halt to it and let interest rates rise. Jimmy Carter didn’t get a second term. Career politicians made a note of this.

Let’s go right back to the big one. The Great Depression. The cause? Inflation. The cure? The same nonsense that’s going on now. Massive government intervention. It didn’t work then, it didn’t work in the 1970s, it didn’t work in Japan and it’s not going to work now.

We’re just putting off the pain. But it’s in the post. Late delivery simply means it’s going to be worse when it arrives.

Again and again history tells us that the cause of such problems is inflation made possible by fiat money. It’s all lies, deceit, smoke and mirrors. They can’t even say the words "printing money" – instead it’s "quantitative easing"! More double-speak – the "Mushroom Principle" – keep them in the dark and feed them BS!

Far be it from me to start throwing out well-worn Austrian adages but this one bears repeating again and again – the cure for a recession is a recession.

Let’s take one more step back. The USA 1921. Recession. The cause? Inflation. The cure? Do nothing. The government of President Harding didn’t know what to do – they ended up doing next to nothing. This was the correct response. A severe but short recession followed. Then recovery.

Gordon Brown is currently engaged in a series of meetings here, there and everywhere, trying to set things up for the G20 summit coming up in London next week. The in-fighting, insults, arguments and horse-trading are already in full swing. He has been humiliated everywhere he’s gone. France and Germany do not agree with his strategy. The Brazilian leader was less than courteous, the Argentinians are still going on about the Falklands and the Chilean leader gave him some motherly advice about household management. Then there’s the Czech leader who has called President Obama’s plan the "road to hell."

Add to all this calls by Russia (along with strong interest from China, not surprisingly) for a new world fiat currency – I hope they call it the "Gono" in celebration of Gideon Gono – and we have a boondoggle of epic proportions in the making.

What is the purpose of this thing? Why is President Obama attending? Does he even want to? Will it change what he and his administration are doing by one iota?

Of course not! But hey, they will be seen to be doing something when the best thing they could be doing is nothing!

This was a highly damaging speech by any stretch, not least for the fact that he said quite clearly that the Prime Minister is fully aware of the disaster into which his policies will lead us:

"Now, it’s not that you’re not apologising … t’s that you’re carrying on, wilfully worsening our situation, wantonly spending what little we have left.." (Emphasis added) – Daniel Hannan.

No government could create such havoc were it not for fiat money – it is the root cause of our problems. Without it not only would they have to live within their means, thereby restricting their growth, but also they would not be able to manipulate its supply and price via central banks, thereby eliminating the booms and slumps which follow.

Fiat money has been a boon for a few but a disaster for the rest of us.

March 30, 2009

Chris Clancy [send him mail] is Associate Professor of Financial Accounting at Zhongnan University of Economics and Law in Wuhan, Hubei Province, People's Republic of China.

Copyright © 2009 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.



web page

Amen Mr. Clancy... Amen.

I'm actually with the author on this one...but I begin to wonder how those advocating that we do nothing (including myself) would react to it actually happening.

Citing 1921 as a successful example as to why not to intervene is a rather apples and oranges comparison. As the lengthy article Peen posted the other day...corporate America and Wall Street have been an ever-increasing part of our government systems and daily life.

An abundance of invented wealth that stood for the assets of the people is something that we've never seen before...it's easy to say 'let AIG fail!'...but what about the 72 year old retired railroad worker who did everything right along the way, including investing his money in what was popularly conceived to be 'safe'? Should we let him fail as well?

It all goes back to that first bailout...we should've invested back into the people, and not the failed institutions whose collapse threatened to cripple them.

Side note -- did anyone see Obama's speech yesterday encouraging everyone to buy cars and backing them with the government's warranty? By far the scariest and dumbest instance of his young presidency IMO. Quite literally the exact opposite of what he should've been saying.

I've been involved with Manufacturer and Importing for years. I can and should write a book but I'd much rather talk football lol

"the other problem is our desire for 'free trade' that would be fine and dandy if everyone played by the same rules....but they don't....its more like a flight to cheap wages, no workers rights, and no epa restrictions."

I've always thought the solution to this was quite simple. There are many creative Tariffs around the world - Like the Italians...You will not find many Japanese cars there at all. Their rule...If Japan buys 5 Italian made vehicles then we open our doors for 5 Japanese vehicles to be sold here. Pretty simple but in the end...just no Japanese cars in Italy...but its not like they have a turn key Market to have that policy work.

I don't suggest that in the USA but what I think would be a solution. Is to have each country establish the trade policy of tariffs - For instance. China If you want to sell X product (which is Everything) to us - well what is your Import Tariff for that product from us. We will match Tit for Tat.

For instance. Brake Pads...I just landed some I was surprised that the Duty is just 1.5%. Brake Rotors from China are 8%...but any of that product we sell to China its at 45% Duty. Our policy should be simple....hey you make the Duty China...but whatever it is it will be the same here. Your choice. 2% fine...45% fine. But we want a Fair Trade Policy with you...

I know in 98...a friend from China asked me for help to try to get a Catalytic Converter Manufacturer as China made some big commitment for the Global Environment movement of the new Millenium and no emmission controls were on their vehicles. So they were going to get the entire country to convert to vehicles with Catalytic converters. Well I got him in touch with a Manufacturer and the product was competitive with the proposed Chinese Manufacturers and this US maker had more experience in the technology. The deal just couldn't materialize...Why? When you added the 45% duty...it just couldn't compete.

We have the leverage...we shouldn't dictate and we are always the fair ones. as we have low Duty and they have large ones....Its simple - make it fair...no advantage to either side. You want to sell your goods here...well guess what we want to sell our goods there. So how much do you wish to protect your market...its a two way street.

I would prefer NO DUTY from either side...our deal with Canada. Of course people site Canada and use it as an example of a failed trade agreement. Why? cause they won't buy our stuff...no but its skewed to be us buying way more than them for the simple reason...They only got about 30million people living in that entire Country...we got that in the Metro Area (NJ, NYC, L.I., Conn. and NY counties north of NYC) - so of course they export to us more than they Import.

But I'm talking CHINA! a growing market like none other....This is the perfect place to get a Free Trade agreement going...I can't believe the idiots in Washington would try to Pooh-Pooh any thought of it. But the reality of it all is....We eliminate the 1.5% duty They eliminate the 45%. And the US Govt. gets the Unions all hot n bothered like we are going to lose jobs if that 1.5% duty went to 0. And the only reason they are making a stink about it - Is so that they can RAISE the Duty probably so they can get MO-MONEY. Right now the Government is a MONEY SUCKING MACHINE!!!!

We have gotten so dependent on that Importing that a raise across the board of Duty will be the Straw to break so many backs - It will not bring back jobs lost...It will actually have us LOSE more jobs. But the Government will suck more money and thats important!

JMHO

i get that...and i agree totally about the tariffs....

but to take it a step further, what about the other stuff that the US company has to deal with....and i'm not even talking union/non-union....our minimum wage in Ohio is like $7.25.....thats probably 700% higher than most workers make in china...US companies have tons of rules and regulations to follow from osha, and the epa....i'm sure there are tons of others too.....china has no such thing...

how do you compete with that? i would have to say that they either match our worker safety rules, and environmental protections also...along with fair wages, and then it would be 'fair' trade...


another thing i don't get, is how do all these other countries get away with doing this..seems like whenever the US tries to balance something out the WTO steps in and tells us no....

that VAT tax is stupid too...we can't even balance that out..

what really ticks me off, is that other countries seem to look out for there own....and our government turns a blind eye so the rich can get richer...

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Look the most expensive part of each product - are the Raw Materials being put into that product as far as Cost. We have more technology to be involved and be able to produce more product...At that cheap labor there is no reason for China to invest into robotic technology.

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i find that hard to believe about the raw materials....but i come from a construction background where the materials were cheaper than the labor....

i can agree about 1 American worker with technology is as good as 10 chinese without....

it still seems to me that the costs to build hear are more than abroad...if union benefit costs hurt companies here (or to be fair, any company that offers benefits), then the lack there-of in other countries has to help....

and i agree it has become all about profit....it not about a job well done anymore....or making a name for yourself...

i go to a automotive parts store in the area that is imo a small business.....the owner works the counter....i buy from them because they know there stuff...and they sell good products....

if i go down the street to the regional chain store, i can probably find a slightly cheaper price, but often i know more about what i'm looking for, than the kid behind the counter....

probably the same imported brake pads....but my loyalty is with the little guy that cares...

so i agree with you there whole-heartedly....

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We'll see what happens. But I think there is an entire generation of people with their Hands out and saying Gimme, Gimme and I don't want to work hard.

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i don't know if that is really fair...on the one hand i can agree with you...and on the other i can't...

what people need is the ability to survive...thats becoming harder and harder to do with most jobs in the country....

i believe a person will do something, if the result means that they can survive at least, and thrive with hard work....

you said it yourself about the corporations...there huge, they have power....look at what walmart has done to small businesses everywhere...how can you compete...can't sell hardware...mom n pop convenience store are few and far between...most gas stations sell everything that a small store sold 20 years ago...

service jobs...tons of competiton...

construction....tons of cheap labor...

small farm....forget it...

butcher? baker? candle-stick maker? lol....

its all big business now...and since big business controls the government i think everyone is feeling pretty hopeless....

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We'll see what happens. But I think there is an entire generation of people with their Hands out and saying Gimme, Gimme and I don't want to work hard.

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I don't think that's true. We have a regular rotation of co-ops through here from NC State. The last 4 or 5 that we had all worked extremely hard. They did whatever you asked them to do. All were extremely bright, quality kids. Heck the last one we had volunteered his time to build homes for Habitat on weekends and the one starting this summer just returned home from a mission trip to Central America where they built homes for the poor. I don't believe these kids are an isolated exception.... I hear the older guys say all the time, "We worked hard back when I was younger.. blahblahblah.." I'm sure they did, but my guess is they didn't work any harder than the kids today.... Every generation thinks the next generation is full of slackers... I'm pretty sure that the folks that won WWII and were considered "The Greatest Generation" were probably all considered slackers by their elders at one point...

"i find that hard to believe about the raw materials....but i come from a construction background where the materials were cheaper than the labor."

will do the short version...sorry for the length

concept is MASS PRODUCTION...so that the hourly wage of the employee when put into the product cost (of each item) don't come close to the raw materials that went into it. Of course I hope we aren't talking about a tooth pick but something more like a TV, etc. But usually Pig Iron, Plastic, Rubber, etc. is pretty much a Universal price and it doesn't vary much from country to country. Except for maybe if you Import the raw material. You won't have much added cost compared with other countries.

A lot of costs manufacturing here is expensive and a disadvantage is because of environmental reasons. We have to go through many anti-pollutant requirements which adds onto cost. China - they have Nickel going into the rivers and other pollutants.

which btw - don't buy Talapia from China...its a fish that can be farmed from a mud puddle...very resilient. 2 Billion people with an inferior Sewage system and no manufacturing pollution controls...I wouldn't eat that fish if you paid me

But environmentally its tough for us to keep up...that is why we hardly have any Foundaries here.

But US manufacturing can make a comeback...if they just trust that Quality will get it done and stop with the Almighty PRICE PRICE PRICE.

Cause yes no doubt its more expensive to manufacturer here. I didn't really mean to mis-lead there. But in a product that when you break down - the labor cost per item produced is not the difference maker. The fact that they can and are subsidized by their government but they use that to sell product below their costs (dumping) where we are going to use it for just waste and bad business which won't correct anything. And a Token firing here n there isn't going to help.

JMHO

thanks for the explanation....

and i agree with you totally....i would rather buy something made in the USA than from a foreign country...problem is, that its getting harder and harder to do....

we used to make things, and the steel came from cleveland, it was stamped in another city, then parts from other citys all came together and were assembled into the finished product...then shipped by Americans, and sold by Amercians....

now half the crap we see, even if its USA made....is usually just USA assembled...all the parts come from over-seas...

was talking to a guy after a council meeting, and he's glad that china is making cheap stuff, cause he can buy more....said we only lost all the crappy manufacturing jobs....

i looked at him and replied, "i'm sure alot of people wouldn't mind having a crappy manufacturing job right now." and just shook my head....

trying to make a buck is fine....developing a better product to make more money is fine....developing new products is fine....but i have to agree with you...companies have went the other way totally...

and i like fish....gonna have to check the labels real good

I got to laugh at corporate America...especially manufacturing going to China. They are all going there for price mind you...not quality.

So they are in a meeting in China and the Chinese offers a cost of $3 for the Widget...and the Americans huddle and then break...they state "NO" can you do it for $2.50 - Now the Chinese huddle and then break...OK you have a deal.

The American execs think they just Won something and celebrate. Dolts just what did they win.

1. Chinese and most of Asia - feel that its an Insult to have a Business Negotiation and say no...so they try to oblige every request.

2. So just where do they save $.50 of production cost. They have been warned not to dump anymore and they were at Break even when they quoted $3. They ain't going to save it via labor...thats as low as it can get. So they have to get Cheaper RAW MATERIALS for that product...from Screws to wire to anything involved with it.

When me and my friend went to China years ago....about 94? They quoted $3 for our widget...we huddled and came out and said how bout $4 - they giggled and said Yes. We countered by stating - Not that product that you are making for America but this product and pulled out an O.E.M. sample. They actually thanked us and stated we are the first Americans (my friend is Canadian/Chinese) to ask them to make Quality. And they happily did to our specs.

Its just that these Idiots in suits think they just made a Home Run with their negotiations and they just more crappier thats all. US Manufacturing can make a come back...All they got to do is focus on Quality instead of price. Let the Consumer make the choice to pay $20 or $15 one is consistently reliable the other is hit or miss. One states MADE in the U.S.A. the other states Made in China, Taiwan, Brasil, Haiti, etc.

And so much product is not made here...even if its states Made only some state Assembled - but if they add one portion of the component Made in the U.S.A. they can state that on their label for the entire product.

We have become a nation of Re-Boxers. Of which I am one of them.

JMHO

That's the downside to the system.

My boss, RIP, always talked about the bell curve. The line between maximum profit, and maximum quality. He maintained the trick is to the ride the line just before the top, which is where your profit extends, but your quality begins to suffer because of it.

At times, we raised our prices just to drive away the price conscious customers, leaving us to focus our attention on the customers more geared toward service and quality.