DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A pre-pimp look at the draft.

[color:"orange"]Yes, its still way to early to start pimping players for the draft but on a lower scale of what Savage is doing - for us there are still a few college games left plus the bowl games to get a last look at these kids.

As normal for us I would like to see us go for BPA with Need in the first day. What are those needs. Well I won't specify the order of need just will bring up what I feel is a need.

OL: OT n/or OG
DL: NT n/or DE
RB
CB
LB

As for QB the verdict is still out but a high draft pick QB is probably not in our future. I can see us opting for a 2nd day QB like Smith - I do like the prospects of this kid from LSU Russell if he comes out. But the sexy High draft picks of this season for some reason don't turn me on anyways.

I have included LB not cause we really, really need one. I did so cause in the 3-4 the LBs are major impact so that every year its a priority no matter who we have!

CB unfortunately with the prospects of Baxter and the uncertainty of talent in Minter...CB goes on the list. Holly I think could become our Nickel but we cannot pass up on a stud.

OT Shaffer is Serviceable at LT but you can't pass up on a franchise LT if he's on the board - Shaffer might stud out at LG or RT when Tucker's ready to pass the baton but I think he's got a couple of years left.

OG Coleman looks like we aren't pursuing him. Andruzzi again is serviceable but this team would be better if he is our Interior Backup and we upgrade. Sowells is expected to compete but who knows??? Still I'm talking about possibly drafting a stud OG early if he is a BPA.

NT I think we need to groom somebody Big...I mean Big to take TW's place. This defense works so much better with a NT of TW's caliber than a Jason Fisk.

DE we have serviceable DEs...Roye is turning the corner to retirement Eason has some explosion, McKinley is serviceable and Fraser has been over achieving and a surprise. But a stud could only make everyone better on our D.

RB Rueben even if playing his best is just serviceable and there is great debate out there if he has declined as it is. We here talk about returning to Browns football...well stud RB is my memory of Browns Football - the time might be now to get one!

Now why make a thread now: As mentioned if we are going to talk at length about these kids we should have a little more than the measureables from the combine. Time is running out on looking at some of these kids. I'm not suggesting one should choose now...I'm suggestion one should educate themselves now <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well here are some guys to look at.
OT
My #1 guy for us regardless where we pick is Joe Thomas (Wisc.)...this kid is an absolute stud. Unfortunately as it turns out we aren't as bad a team as many suggest cause we won't be picking in the top 5 and probably not in the top 10 this year. Most of the others are RT types and frankly you don't have to invest high for a RT and we have several candidates of our own including Tucker, Shaffer, Butler and Dorsey.

So a Levi Brown shown as #2 on most OT boards just won't serve us much. I don't think he's a LT in the NFL even though that is where he plays in Penn St. Pending where we pick we might pull the trigger but he is not an answer the way LT is.

A Kid that looks interesting and might climb the charts is Joe Staley from Central Mich.

Sam Baker (USC) if he comes out could be a good prospect but Junior OTs don't do well in the draft - Winston Justice should tell him that. He would fair better to stay his Sr. year and become a early stud pick - if not then he might truly be a hardship case and could be a steal in the 2nd round.

OG

Justin Blalock (Texas)is a freakin beast - if we find ourselves picking 15-20 he just might fall into our slots as BPA. He's the only worthwhile OG for us to look at in the 1st round. But other possible 1st day OG picks.
Ben Grubbs (Auburn)
Manuel Ramirez (Texas Tech)
A kid to look at who could drop only cause Hawaii simply doesn't run and he'll get the rap of can't run block...but the kid looks talented: Samson Satele - how can you not like a kid named Samson <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

RB:
There is the obvious Adrian Peterson some question his injury status but if you look at his status its not major injuries and he has played hurt. He is a stud RB the last two RBs that I remember talked about injuries were Duece McCallister and Mulgahee - they seem to be doing nicely.

The kid I really like and I just might pimp???
Is Marshawn Lynch. His OL is not stellar and yet he still produces and he's an excellent Receiver. We can't have LTomlinson do we pass on another kid that reminds me of LT???

Then there is the big back Bush...something makes me shy away from him like I did from Duckett. That pick scares me.

Two kids that interest me is Tyrone Moss from Miami (FL)...those kids seem to run well in the NFL.

And Thomas Clayton Kansas St. both I'm talking later down the road possibly 3rd round if RBs are going fast.

Keep in mind we have RD signed so an early stud can start out sharing the load so both will be fresh. And if a prospect thats Ok they can learn from RD we don't have to replace RD right away but I would like to replace Wright thats for sure!

Defense:

Tweeners DE/LB
Gaines Adam (Clemson) could be a good compliment to Wimbley and he can again learn from Willie McG. Its all about not being good on D but being Terrors!

I really like Lamarr Woodley of Mich. his height might have him drop a bit but this kid can bring it. I'm also real curious if he could be converted to ILB like Bruschi was???

Guys who could be availble later as possible steals are Victor Abiamiri (Notre Dame) and Anthony Spencer (Purdue)

NT
Its not much to pick from Alan Branch (Mich.) is the kid who we just might get as he might fall in our slotting.

Two others that interest me but later down the road. Frank Okam (Texas) and Amobi Okoye (Louisville).

DE
Quinn Pitcock (OSU)
Marcus Thomas (Florida)
Adam Carriker (Nebraska)
One of these 3 should be available around our 2nd pick???

Down the road guys:
Kareem Brown (Miami, FL)
Antonio Johnson (Miss. St.)

LBs
OLBs
I'm really not enamored by anyone on the list...the kid from Penn St. Posluszny I think is maybe the most over rated pimped by the media LB around...I don't like him he reminds me of Greenway.

Maybe Prescott Burgess of Mich in the 2nd day.

ILBs.
I love...I mean love Buster Davis (FSU)what a good football player. Short but little bigger bulk wise than DQ so that he could handle blockers a little better.

A kid to watch is Patrick Willis (Ole Miss.)

Maybe a 2nd day guy is Desmond Bishop (Calif.)

CB
Three stand out for me early on:
Leon Hall (Mich.)
Marcus McCauley (Fresno St.)
Fred Bennett (South Carolina)

Add Darrell Revis (Pittsburgh)if he comes out.

A kid to watch that could rise the charts.
Josh Wilson (Maryland) he's small but you can't substitute for pure speed.

Well these are some kids to watch in these last games...might as well speak from some actual football when we Pimp in March. If we don't watch them then we are just regurgitating Scouting reports from guys who can't get a job from NFL teams. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Also anyone I listed if they are at the local school, Alumni shcool and you got some Positives or Negatives please clue us in.

Information, Information Educate me and other dawgs please!! <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

if we take an LB's this year.. We better take Patrick Willis.. We really dont need any MORE LB's IMO.. but that is who I like...

we need a GREAT RB!!! not a bruiser.. not a small speedster.. but someone in the middle.. a regular sized RB with nice speed but who can also break tackles.. Lynch is pretty good though.. I think he would help the Browns out.. and if Peterson falls to us, wherever we may be.. I HOPE WE TAKE HIM!!! He would really help us out, especially with the play action..

O-LINE!! i'm almost ready to say we are taking two O-linemen out of our 1st three picks..its almost a neccesity..

... " O-LINE!! i'm almost ready to say we are taking two O-linemen out of our 1st three picks..its almost a neccesity "

.. I am , and have been an " OL " maniac all along <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> .. So in what round do we go after " DL " ????

We need linemen on both sides of the ball. We also need another cornerback.

I love Joe Staley from Central Michigan. I know Ky;s defense is the worst in football but the kid picked up the corner blitz, the safety blitz, the olb and owned his side of the field. He is special. A bonified, certified, LT. Best LT at picking up the blitz that I have seen at the college level and you know me i dont like the smaller OL. BTW he played just as good when they have faced Michigan.

Pimped Kyle Young enough but he is an outstanding center and could probaly play everywhere but LT.

RB Michael bush was a top 5 lock until the broke leg and I think he would have been the 3rd player of the boards behind Quinn, and Calvin Johnson. I would check him out medically and pull the trigger if he passes the physcial.

Work up work down but walk away with those 3 and i am a happy camper lol

I'll just add a few names to this list..right now the draft websites do not have much if any , info on the draftees..so we'll have to wait till season's end..
Anyway...
OT-
[color:"orange"]Ryan Harris Notre Dame 6-5 292 [/color]
Alot of mobilty and a good run blocker..exceptional pass protector.
RB-
[color:"orange"]Justin Vincent L.S.U. 5-10 223 [/color]
Nice back for later rounds..

BTW I agree on Levi Brown, I dont think he is close to as good as people are making him out to be. He has talent but I dont think he has the recognition skills to play LT effectively at the NFL.

Willis the LB for Ole Miss is the best in football by far. He will be right at home with all the teams playing the cover 2. We wont give him a look but he is a good one.

Aaron Sears is going to be late 2nd early 3rd and could be a solid steal. He has played every position on the OL for Tenn and is always improving. I like him as a RT at the next level.

The two Auburn guards. Take ya pick both studs.

Joe Thomas forget about it lol. He is a cardinal.

One more note, with Davidson calling the O shots, we are likely to go primarily 2 TE sets so dont be shocked if we pick up another TE with solid hands.

Alan Branch could be a real possibility as our NT depending on how the draft pans out. I think we are gonna work Baba as a DE and that means NT is still on the board as well as a pair of DE's

[color:"white"] Aaron Sears is going to be late 2nd early 3rd and could be a solid steal. He has played every position on the OL for Tenn and is always improving. [/color]

sears should do very well at the next level. he hasn't played one position long enough to stud out anywhere, but still makes preseason all american from what i hear. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I saw someone mentioned Ryan Harris from ND. He would be a nice pick (I don't know how high though). Victor Abiamiri is a tough DE maybe a 2nd rounder. Jake Long from UM has been a stude, but it looked like he was getting pushed around by the Bucks on Sat.

[color:"white"]About the only thing that I'm inclined to disagree on is where you have CB's. Now I know you said you didn't list them in order of need, but deep down, I think you just might have, even if on an unconcious level <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I tend to think that a guy to pair with Bodden is pretty high on the list, unless they think one of these projects or Minter can get it done. Outside of that, yeah, it's no secret that we need major help on both lines.

Setting aside my personal feelings on Droughns, if others believe that Wright or Harrison are answers, then there's no need to go after a high RB.

As far as Frye goes, yeah, he's still making mistakes, but he is making baby steps as far as progression goes, so not taking one early is about as much of a lock as there is (outside of kicker <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ).

Haven't had the chance to watch nearly as much college ball as I'm used to, so my input to specific players isn't going to amount to much. What I can say is that 5'11 Troy Smith isn't a 1st day player. Great college guy who's size will keep him from being an NFL starter. As a backup, he could bring something to the table, but he's a 2nd day guy. [/color]

Unless it's a premier type back I don't think Phil will use a high pick on a RB.
This is going to be a interesting draft for Phil..the third draft is usually the more critical one..that's where Botch failed miserably.

I started something like this earlier.

I wanna know about receiver!?!? I love Braylon and Winslow, but there is a lot of talent in this draft if all the receivers come out. I def. do not want to take one early, but look at the talent at receiver. Ginn, Johnson, Gonzalez, Rice(if he comes out), Jarrett, Sweed, and so on... Gonzo may be the best pick out of them for us since he may be a 3rd round kind of guy.

HOWEVER, I totally agree on the RB situation with Lynch and Peterson on the board, there is a good chance we have a shot at one of them. How can you not take someone that has so much upside. As much as I don't wanan say it. Mike Hart looks to be a good NFL back so he is a possiblity. But then again we have another problem (THE LINE(s)

Offensive line needs to be addressed. The only way I think we take Lynch or Peterson in this draft is if we can get Manuwai in FA, and know that we can find another (possibly Manny Ramirez) to fill the viod in the 2nd or 3rd round. There are a lot of nice O-Lineman in this draft and just like the 2 RB's mentioned it may be hard to pass on them.

Defensive Line - I like Gaines Adams, but he looks to another Wimbley. We can't waste a pick on another Wimbley. If we are going to get a LB we have to look ahead to filling McGinnest's spot with retirement coming soon. Patrick Willis is very capable of doing so. Would love to see that, but he may be the first LB taken in the draft and we cant go after one so early.
The guy I like on the line is Branch and as many have said he could very well be in the Brown and Orange next year. I don't see Baba being a DE so if he progresses as a DT we can have that position on lock down for years to come.

However, DE is another question. Roye is old, I view Eason and Fraser as good back-ups to give breathers. So with that said, I like Pitcock (seems to be a DE at NFL), Okoye (he is like 19 yr. old Senior or something if I remember right). Woodley may be alright, but then again size is scarey. I don't know too much about anymore DE's around NCAA

CB is one area I want to see us either attack in FA or the Draft. Holly is a good 3rd CB on the depth chart. Bodden will be a shut down corner (needs to stay healthy), I don't think McCutheon will make it, and Baxter's career could be over. Also, while Minter could break out we aren't certain on that one. So I would really love it if we got Darrelle Revis from Pitt. I think he will be coming out this year, and teams simply will not throw toward him. IMO, he is the best corner in NCAA, but he will over-looked by 3 or 4 others (whom the topic starter mentioned) and also all the talent at safety this year. So he could fall to 2nd or 3rd round.

My draft outlook right now would be... (2 and 3 could be switched IMO.)
1. Branch or RB
2. Ramirez
3. Revis
4. Pitcock (if he falls) if not pssoible Staley there and Okoye in the 5th.
5. Staley
6. Trannon
7. Find the guy who has the intangibles and get him. Lets find outself a Jennings, Colston, or someone like that. If we don't take Trannon, give that David Ball (broke Rice's TD record) a chance.

Someone will take Troy Smith in the first day. He is the best player in the country! He plays behind some very tall offensive linemen. Look at Boone (6'8 315). He can create plays with his feet and has a rocket arm. Also, NFL teams love to see maturity in QB's. There are teams out there that need QB's and he will be the 2nd one taken. Unless Brohm comes out. Troy Smith is night and day compared to Mike Vick. He actually has a strong AND accurate arm. Not as fast, but BETTER! Mark my word... Troy Smith is a late 1st-late 2nd round draft pick this year.

HE DOESNT PLAY LIKE HE IS 5'11"

[color:"white"]I'm not going to get into a pissin' match with you about it, but name the last sub 6'0 QB who was drafted on the first day, let alone the first round.

Honestly.......he plays behind tall linemen? What is that?! <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Just to add my .02, i do think we need help, D-line yes, I would like to add, I dont think we need as much help on the O-line as some people are saying here, Lets not add bently into this right yet, if he returns next year, look at it as a bonus, What does the best O-lines in the NFL have in common, I'll answer that and say, they have played together for a few years, Ours has played together well since July of this year, I do think we need to look for a future replacement for Tuck, his body is wearing down. we do need to look for a couple guards, to replace Andruzzi and Coleman, age is creaping up. Frieman and Hank are solid back-ups and will only improve playing next to the same person for more than 6 months. do we need to improve heck yes, do we need to upgrade, heck ya, but I dont think a overhaul of personnel is instore, I do see us re-signing Fraly, Friedman and going after one FA guard and Tackle. Sowell will get a chance to start next year, I think these guys need time to play together more. Just my ,02.

[color:"white"]My big beef with the "all they need is continuity" viewpoint is that all the continuity in the world won't help if the guys aren't talented enough.

Coleman has been abused this year, as has Andruzzi, who's done as a starter. Tucker is nearing the end, and while Fraley is a nice insurance policy, he's not an answer.

So that leaves us with the question mark around Bently, and a left tackle in Shaffer who, let's face it, isn't a very good NFL left tackle. He's better than that waste of a guy in Shelton, but he's not earning that big money contract he got. The guy looks like a right tackle to me, as he isn't powerful enough to be a guard.

Savage may feel the need to go with something on the D-line or corner in round 1, but if he doesn't address the line in some fashion on the first day, he damned well better have a good plan in place for fixing an obvious weakness.

This last game was the perfect example. We didn't score a TD on offense against a team that ranked 24th in the league in points allowed. The line simply isn't very good and is one of the big weaknesses on this team. The unit needs a major overhaul and it starts with drafting linemen early so they can develop.[/color]

Toad... I have to disagree with ya here... Drew Brees (who you HEAVILY Pimped) is LISTED at 6' and you and I both KNOW he is a fart below that.. He seems to be doing just fine in the NFL and as much of a turncoat Buckeye fan I was by NOT advocating Smith, the kid has IT... He THRIVES in the big game and can handle immense pressure... He by all intents and purposes is Everything CF is without the height and avg. armstrength...

I would take him HANDS down over CF RIGHT now and that just isn't my jubilence over last weekends win...

[color:"white"]How tall are most farts? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We'll see on Smith. The reason Brees was drafted high was because he ran a pro-style offense, thereby supposedly making him ready for the NFL as a pure passer. Smith doesn't run a pro-style offense, and let's face it, he's black, so some idiots in the league are still going to knock him for that. Then there's the fact that he was on the most talented team in college.

I don't see him being a 1st our 2nd rounder. He's a 4th or 5th rounder in my eyes. [/color]

[color:"white"]I don't see him being a 1st our 2nd rounder. He's a 4th or 5th rounder in my eyes.
[/color]

aren't alot of analysts saying he may not even play QB?

j/c

Question

Savage talked last year about working w/ RAC on a draft strategy. The question was "what do you need more - pash rusher or run stuffer".

Were "run stuffer" and "pass rusher" identified as our team's biggest needs - or were Wimbley/Ngata the expected targets based on where we were picking and who Phil felt would be available.

Also -
I'm reading comments about us picking 10-12? Where the heck is that coming from? We "should have" won 9 games now. When are people gonna stop projecting us to win out? I'll watch every game on the schedule expectin'/hopin' for a win. Could it happen - sure. Will it? - wanna bet? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

We're in the mix to pick top 5 at this point and we don't have a single push-over game on the schedule. There's only 1 Oakland.
The higher we pick the more leverage we have to trade down if we're not enamored w/ who's available.

Toad - With all due respect - Pittsburgh leads the league in turn-overs. Their defense isn't what it was last year, but its not a 24th ranked defense straight-up.

I saw all I needed to see on Saturday.

I'll be pimping Mr. Branch.

I respect the honesty... IMHO, the "black QB stigma" is deader than the rug on Marv Albert's head... The reason (again just my opinion) many of these young black QB's get into the NFl and get position changed is because their success in college relied more on their legs than their arms... The fact that some of these kids are so elusive makes most scouts salivate at the thought of getting them the ball in the open field...

I still stand by my opinion that I would take TS over CF any day o fthe week and twice on Sunday's... His TD to INT ratio, poise in the big game and that he can offer a defense many different looks... I am certain you saw the game Toad, he gave scUM SO many different looks... He will be a fine pro and MAY even stud out just like Drew Brees did... I see him fitting in the 1st rd between 15 and 32... NO later than the top of the 2nd rd..

[color:"white"]Knox, I haven't looked that hard at Smith from an evaluation standpoint, so while it's possible, I can't say for sure. I just don't know what they've sound on all the sites and around the league.

Danglet, what I'm about to say is coming from hindsight and deductive reasoning, as well as my own opinion of what was going on before the offseason started.

Our pass rush was horrific. Thompson tried but wasn't the rusher that the 3-4 needed, and neither was Lang or Stewart. We had no choice but to upgrade the rush, which is where Wimbley came in. We identified run-stuffing as a priority, which is where Washington came in, and since it's easier to get DT's than it is pure rushers for the 3-4 OLB, that made Wimbley a target.

I'm sure that while we had needs at the positions that Ngata and Wimbley played, Savage felt that either guy represented the answer to the position. Since we were putrid at rushing the passer, Wimbley was obvious.

My own personal take was that I wanted either Bunkley, Wimbley, or Ngata. Regardless, I'd felt that winning starts on defense (I know, the timing of that statement is suspect because of what happened yesterday, hehe), and we needed a 1st round talent at one of those positions. I'm sure that Savage recognized that as well, since he drafted that position first, and defense in the 1st two rounds.

[color:"white"]

True, but they still aren't the bullet-proof team that they were, as you noted, so scoring on them hasn't been as big an issue as in the past.

A quick look shows that while they are 6th in the league in INT's, they also rank in the bottom half of every other defensive passing category. 19th in attempts, completions, and yards, while 22nd in TD's allowed and yards per attempt. We should have managed to do better.

Er......so why did we go down this road again? I lost my train of thought *L* [/color]

[color:"red"]We'll see on Smith. The reason Brees was drafted high was because he ran a pro-style offense, thereby supposedly making him ready for the NFL as a pure passer. Smith doesn't run a pro-style offense, and let's face it, he's black, so some idiots in the league are still going to knock him for that [/color]

OSU runs a varied offense and some of it is a pro-set, the others are a spread- 5 WR set..I've seen Smith progress to the point he's a PASSER who can run, much like McNabb IS NOW..he has a cannon arm and incredible accuracy especially on his intermmediate -long throws.
If he is forced to change positions in the pros , it's stupid.
He's more than just a athlete..
Usually I don't hype OSU players even though I'm here and I rooted like crazy for them..I've seen him enough to know he could go in the 3rd/4th rds..that would be safe for him.
If you can get the job done screw height..

Unless he lays a total egg in the Championship game, there's no way he drops to the second round. Don't care if he's 4' 10". (well, okay that's a slight exaggeration <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

If Smith has his typical game in the Championship..his stock will rise further.
I really can't say if the scouts view him as a high round choice.

Smith looks good but when it comes to drafting players.....the combines throw these guys into cookie cutters and I am not sure Smith is going to stack up to the "norms" established by the guy "in-the-know".

Brees fell to the 2nd and barring a complete flop by Smith in the BCS, his pro- day workout and the combine, I truly cannot see him falling past the 2nd rd...

Brees didn't play in a pro-style offense. He played in the spread at Purdue which is anything but a pro offense.

Smith is listed at 6'1", and that last QB who's shorter than Smith drafted in the first or 2nd round? Michael Vick, #1 overall. And Smith can read a defense better than Vick could ever dream of. Smith proved himself as a pocket passer this year, Vick never did that at VT.

Plus, big players make big plays in big games. Smith has DOMINATED every big game he's played in. No doubt in my mind he'd be unrattled by Heinz Field, since he was unrattled by The Big House.

He WILL NOT fall out of the first round, I promise you that.

Eo, good thread and I apologize that I got off of subject with the Smith talk..

As far as who I would pimp...

It WILL depend on where we are slotted to pick... I am going to go out on a limb and say we will be slotted at #7

1st Choice is Joe Thomas but he will be GONE by #3...

With that in mind, I see Adrian Peterson falling to us and we would be IDIOTIC to pass on him... Remember, this is IF we were picking at #7...

A 2nd choice would be Alan Branch.. The kid is a JACK Stud and his that Big Fatty we need to put on this O-Line...

3rd Choice is QB Brian Brohm... Big Kid and bigger Cannon.. Could be the stud we lack behind Center...


Scenerio 2 which I like better... We pick in the 10-15 range:

1st Choice would be Marshawn Lynch from Cal.. Pick 10

2nd Choice would be the Revis CB from Pitt.. Pick 10

If we pick 12-14 I would want Either Pittcock DT from THE OSU...

2nd Choice would be Justin Blaylock UT or Jake Long from scUM...

[color:"orange"]I'm hesitant to post in these threads because they always get deleted, but my mock is in my sig... [/color]

its tough right now to project anyone. I have wanted Michael Bush in a Browns uniform for some time and if he slides down that would be the way i would want to do it. Slide down with him and go for Bush and Staley.

[color:"white"]Yeah, it was a spread offense. I remember now. I wonder who I'm thinking of. I think I'm recalling the reports where it was an offense where he had to make NFL reads.

Smith isn't 6'1. He isn't 6'. And he ain't no Mike Vick.

Setting that aside, I don't care what any of you say. He's not a 1st day QB. There. I said it. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> *L*[/color]

Its cool Toad... I don't think he is Michael Vick v2.0 ... To me he is a Mobile QB and a Passer 1st kinda player... Vick is NOTHING without his legs... At any rate, we won't see him in a Browns uniform and the talk of this will be irrelivant...

Guess I won't be confused as being one of your tadpoles when it comes to this discussion... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Who knows? With the way Savage stockpiles Ohio players, I expect we'll sign Rattay in the off-season, draft Smith in the 7th ( <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ), and bring Eddie George out of retirement, hehe.

As far as being a Tadpole, I'm printing up shirts right now. I'll put you down for a XL <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(Side note: Pathetic comment by Vers, but par for the course).[/color]

Toad - could you be a little more specific on what you don't like about Troy.

What does him having talent around him have to do w/ anything? I understand that as a Browns fan - the fact that his receivers catch the ball most of the time might throw you off a bit <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

What about his game is lacking, IYO? Surely there's more than height in question if you think he drops below the second round.

<general: no flack on that comment about our receivers, please. I realize they've been much better of late>

ISNT THE BIG ARGUMENT USUALLY THAT SHORT QB'S CANT SEE OVER HIS LINE, THEREFORE CANT READ THE DEFENSE. TROY SMITH HAS PROVEN THAT BEHIND SOME OF THE BIGGEST OFFENSIVE LINEMEN IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL. If height is such a big deal to you, how can you overlook this?!?!?!?!?! Don't laugh about it. If you say his height hurts him, yet playing behind tall linemen doesnt matter, then why is his height such a big issue?

I actually got a kick outta it... Was one of his better ones... And an XL will be fine... You making them in long sleeves? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]His size is an issue, no doubts about it. For every example of a short QB who made it, there are dozens that didn't despite rocket arms and mobility.

Now as far as the talent level goes, in college, his receivers are wide open much of the time. In the NFL, he won't have that. He also runs a ton of his plays out of the gun, and that won't happen in the NFL. He may get 3rd down plays from the gun, but for the most part, he'll be under center.

Merc, if playing behind tall offensive linemen meant that short QB's wouldn't have problems, then the scouts wouldn't have problems, yet they do.

Troy Smith: Let the Homers roar! *L* Yeah, I'm having fun with it. You guys should as well <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I suppose if I REALLY REALLY thought about where Smith projects, he's probably a 2nd-4th rounder. If he shows a ton of accuracy at the combine, he could go in the 2nd round, but I think that's a stretch. Not impossible, just a stretch. He's not 6' so that'll hurt him, but he does have a strong arm. He's the kind of guy that I'd expect the Eagles to go after.

If we draft him, I'll be sick to my stomach. We have far greater needs. [/color]