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Well why didn't GM just say NO THANKS!!.. Ford did not ask for the money and were not subject to those rules! GM did!... Sorry! As for a comment about GMC, IF the president made that quote, it would not be a bad idea! Hell, GMC and Chevy clones half of their trucks anyway! Maybe they could think about streamlining that crap down!!
Whoa, dude. I never called Obama any of those things.
GMC and Chevrolet trucks are identical, aside from a different grill, tailgate, perhaps rims......I agree - cut one of them. But, OOOOOPS, both are profitable.
Lookie here - the only thing Obama has going for him in the bailout is he is using your tax money and my tax money. Obama has absolutely NO idea how to run a business. Period.
You want to talk about people running businesses into the ground? AIG. Most of the big banks - and they don't have to deal with the legacy costs GM and Chrysler do - plus, they don't have to deal with demand being down beneath low.
You make a few assumptions in your post. That's generally a bad thing.
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Fascism can come from any form of economy or government rule ...
Every major fascist regime in modern history that I can think of was based in socialism. Even the Nazis, that source of hackneyed (and historically inaccurate) insults at conservatives, were ardent socialists ("Nazi" is short for "National Socialist", after all). They loathed the free market, believed in free health care, confiscated private property, opposed inherited wealth, despised Christianity, and inserted the authority of the state into every aspect of daily life. The Nazis also declared war on smoking; supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control ... not to mention genocide. Hitler and Stalin had much more in common than either would have liked to admit ... their conflict was nationalistic, not ideological. Their political differences were not polarized, as is commonly purported by the Left, but more a matter of the degrees of collectivism, centralized government, and control of the people.
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Arch, Please provide the quote that I typed that said you stated anything about Pres Obama?? Please provide the quote where I assumed you said anything??.. I thought not, now I did make a statement about the names that people were assigning to the Pres! GMC and Chevy might be profitable but if you need to streamline an operation, one of those have to go. And let oil spike up again, GMC will not be that profitable anymore since all they are is a truckline! And no one is saying that Pres Obama knows how to run a car company, BUT what I did say was that Idea was not a bad idea AND that the so-called people in Detroit that are suppose to know how to run a car company, RUINED IT...PERIOD!!! Quote:
and they don't have to deal with the legacy costs GM and Chrysler do - plus, they don't have to deal with demand being down beneath low.
Yes, car companies have a legacy costs but banks have been profitable more years that GM or Chrysler ever have. Plus, if the banks had not gotten greedy, and stuck to just banking, they would not be in the trouble they are in now.
You know what they say about assumptions Arch! 
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Whatever dude. Look out, there's a forest coming, but you can't see it because a tree is in the way. Perhaps tomorrow you will read this and understand what I was saying. Maybe you won't. Simple as that. Thanks for playing. Oh, by the way, your bias is showing. 
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Every major fascist regime in modern history that I can think of was based in socialism.
Mussolini and The Iron Guard in Romania are two contradictions to this claim that the come to mind immediately...the Brazilian movements in the early 30's...
...in fact, a great deal of fascism historically is a lot of what you see going on in America today...a strong foundation of corporatism.
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1st String
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Please learn the difference between fascism and socialism, it is not that hard to do.
The fact that socialism eventually turns into fascism should mean absolutely nothing then, right?
Socialism and Fascism are on the opposite side of the social-political spectrum.
Socialism does not turn into Fascism. Fascism is based on extreme political ideology while socialism is focused on economic theories based on public ownership. The extreme ends of socialism would be communism, which focuses on universal common ownership of economic and political resources.
The American government is a capitalistic government w/ socialistic polices. It has always had socialistic polices. There is a balance that always has the focus of free enterprise and the common good. Most constitutionally based governments have this balance to one degree, or another.
The argument and accusation that we are heading down a path of socialism is an argument of ignorance and displaced frustration. It is now a tool of politicians who are more focused on scoring points than debating issues or doing their job.
As for the American public, we need to start checking our sources. There is an issue of "cui bono" (who is benefiting) in our media sources. We read and watch who appeals to our political or economic sensibilities instead of finding out who is telling the truth. Watch what you read.
As for Chavez, he has been working to change his government into a communistic government. America for the past eight years has been aiding in his plans with bad policy decisions in the region. We have been more concerned with making corporate profit and supporting weak / unwanted leadership in the region. Yes, people of South and Central America blame the US because we have influenced a lot of bad decisions. Even Chavez knows that he needs the US to keep his economy going by selling oil and food. The fact is America, through bad policy, created the “Chavez issue” by giving him clout to change the political structure of his country.
Just the dawg in me..........
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One of the best posts I've read in awhile.
And while I agree the 'fascism' label is being misused by the frustrated...the collusion of business and government for the benefit of both at the expense of the population is a trademark of fascism.
And this is nothing new. It didn't start with Obama or Bush or Clinton or Reagan...
Let's not forget that after 9/11 we bailed out the airline industry big time...no one made a peep then.
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Thank you DD... Thank you very much.  And Phil,, where was all this opposition to that airline bailout after 9/11? Excellent question...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Those same folks have been around for 200 years, saying the same basic stuff and we've somehow managed to weather a million storms, wars, droughts, attacks, economic catastrophes and McCarthy yet somehow, here we are, still the beacon of democracy shining on the hill.... albiet, the light is a little tainted at the moment due to too much greed and too little governance....
I guess I'm not a Chicken little type of guy DC...
Too much greed I can agree with.. too little governance? Not so much.
So you think we are the same country we were 200 years ago?
yebat' Putin
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never really understood the different brands when they are essentially the same car...don't know why all the dealers couldn't just treat them like a trim package....LS, LT (chevy packages) and have another thats the GMC trim package....downside is you would eliminate half the workers at dealers...unless the demand at that location is there..
how about if we just told countries like china and japan, that if they want to continue to send their cars and parts here, they have to let an equal amount of American cars be put up for sale there..
if we were ALLOWED into there market maybe alot more Americans could keep there jobs..but instead we subsidize the foriegn car companies to build plants here....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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The American government is a capitalistic government w/ socialistic polices. It has always had socialistic polices. There is a balance that always has the focus of free enterprise and the common good. Most constitutionally based governments have this balance to one degree, or another.
The argument and accusation that we are heading down a path of socialism is an argument of ignorance and displaced frustration. It is now a tool of politicians who are more focused on scoring points than debating issues or doing their job.
There are some of us who have been against the "socialistic" side of government from the get go. We don't like the government meddling to a great extent in business and in welfare, etc. We certainly don't like to see it growing as it has been for the past many years.
I find those arguing the true meaning of "socialism" and inferring that we are all sheep believing what the media of our choice is telling us to be only trying to derail the conversation and water down the true meaning of what those of us wanting a small government are railing against.
I don't want a large government and I don't want them taking over more than they've already gotten their greedy hands on. Several of you can argue semantics all you want. I don't like what is happening and will continue to speak out against it. I don't need a lecture from anyone about socialism or fascism. I don't like what's happening, end of story.
Ignorance? I think not.
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I agree.. They can call it anything they want, it doesn't change the fact that many of us cringe at the things the government is doing and has done in recent years. They have way too much control over the daily lives of citizens, and that goes against everything this country stood for at it's inception.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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never really understood the different brands when they are essentially the same car...don't know why all the dealers couldn't just treat them like a trim package....LS, LT (chevy packages) and have another thats the GMC trim package....downside is you would eliminate half the workers at dealers...unless the demand at that location is there..
how about if we just told countries like china and japan, that if they want to continue to send their cars and parts here, they have to let an equal amount of American cars be put up for sale there..
if we were ALLOWED into there market maybe alot more Americans could keep there jobs..but instead we subsidize the foriegn car companies to build plants here....
China had more auto sales for the 1st 3 months of the year than the US did.
GM sold 137,000 units in China in March. (Up 24% from a year ago) When you add in their joint venture, this number goes up by an additional 90,000 units.
GM is estimating that they will more than double their sales to China to the 2 million mark by 2014.
Here is something to think about though .... when it comes to what vehicles "we" like ......
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"If China is the biggest market or the US is the biggest market, it doesn't matter," said Ulrich Walker, chairman & CEO for Daimler Northeast Asia.
But such indicators are crucial to marketing strategies, he said.
"You have to know which is the biggest market because you have to tailor your products to fit,"
We could see a lot of vehicles more along the lines of those that fit foreign markets rather than fitting the US market.
Linkeeedoodaddley
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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never really understood the different brands when they are essentially the same car...don't know why all the dealers couldn't just treat them like a trim package....LS, LT (chevy packages) and have another thats the GMC trim package....downside is you would eliminate half the workers at dealers...unless the demand at that location is there..
how about if we just told countries like china and japan, that if they want to continue to send their cars and parts here, they have to let an equal amount of American cars be put up for sale there..
if we were ALLOWED into there market maybe alot more Americans could keep there jobs..but instead we subsidize the foriegn car companies to build plants here....
Actually, the automakers have plants there and hire workers there to build there. Much like Honda and Nissan do here. It's much cheaper than building the car abroad and importing it in.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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guess i'm wrong on that count....
i can swear i remember reading that japan wouldn't let us build gm plants in japan...
i know we get parts from all over the world....i just don't believe that the playing field is level...
everything that is manufactured is moving out of this country...most is going to china....at the end of the day the American worker loses...
i guess GM isn't really American anymore...maybe nothing is...
as far as your second quote...gm was producing what Americans wanted...when gas went up, the foriegn companies were ahead of the curve with higher mpg cars...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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.. " As for Chavez, he has been working to change his government into a communistic government. America for the past eight years has been aiding in his plans with bad policy decisions in the region. We have been more concerned with making corporate profit and supporting weak / unwanted leadership in the region. Yes, people of South and Central America blame the US because we have influenced a lot of bad decisions. Even Chavez knows that he needs the US to keep his economy going by selling oil and food. The fact is America, through bad policy, created the “Chavez issue” by giving him clout to change the political structure of his country... " Any time you want to start a tread based on your above statements , let me know . ! .. I happen to live next door -------------------- 
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Actually, the automakers have plants there and hire workers there to build there. Much like Honda and Nissan do here. It's much cheaper than building the car abroad and importing it in.
well thats not true for American companies....its cheaper to import all the parts....and assemble them here....
the foriegn companies make the parts, assemble and sell there...
as long as we have all these restrictions on American companies we will never compete....if pollution, and safety were big concerns we would have demanded the same of them...but we didn't..
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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as long as we have all these restrictions on American companies we will never compete....if pollution, and safety were big concerns we would have demanded the same of them...but we didn't..
This is a myth professed to ease restrictions so even more money can be made.
When the car companies didn't like these restrictions, they just built up factories in Mexico, had dirt labor built the parts, and shipped them back over here. With all that Clinton had done with NAFTA, they filed it under 'trade'. Only there was really no trade with Mexico...it was merely the car companies building plants over there and sending them back, cutting out the costlier American worker as well as the restrictions in place.
Trust me, they found plenty of ways around those restrictions to make their money, with a wink and a nudge to the boys in Washington.
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Actually, the automakers have plants there and hire workers there to build there. Much like Honda and Nissan do here. It's much cheaper than building the car abroad and importing it in.
well thats not true for American companies....its cheaper to import all the parts....and assemble them here....
the foriegn companies make the parts, assemble and sell there...
as long as we have all these restrictions on American companies we will never compete....if pollution, and safety were big concerns we would have demanded the same of them...but we didn't..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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The American government is a capitalistic government w/ socialistic polices. It has always had socialistic polices. There is a balance that always has the focus of free enterprise and the common good. Most constitutionally based governments have this balance to one degree, or another.
The argument and accusation that we are heading down a path of socialism is an argument of ignorance and displaced frustration. It is now a tool of politicians who are more focused on scoring points than debating issues or doing their job.
There are some of us who have been against the "socialistic" side of government from the get go. We don't like the government meddling to a great extent in business and in welfare, etc. We certainly don't like to see it growing as it has been for the past many years.
I find those arguing the true meaning of "socialism" and inferring that we are all sheep believing what the media of our choice is telling us to be only trying to derail the conversation and water down the true meaning of what those of us wanting a small government are railing against.
I don't want a large government and I don't want them taking over more than they've already gotten their greedy hands on. Several of you can argue semantics all you want. I don't like what is happening and will continue to speak out against it. I don't need a lecture from anyone about socialism or fascism. I don't like what's happening, end of story.
Ignorance? I think not.
Jules, I respect your position on the influences of government on American lives. But this is a separate argument from the ideals of socialism and fascism. The water has been muddied by politicians and radio mouthpieces that all have a personal agenda (cui bono). Your ideas stem for the ideology of modern conservatism heavily influenced by the political philosophies. The belief of “smaller” government has been misrepresented over the years, changing meanings from the influence of government on the personal lives of its citizens, to the actual size of the bureaucracy. This could be another post at another time. Socialism has nothing to do with your complaints.
However, back to the topic of discussion, the socialistic tendencies of modern government is nothing new, dating back to ancient Greece. Our national military is a socialistic part of our government. The national highways, parks, social security, veteran administration, savings bonds, FDIC, public education, Pell grants, consumer protections laws, etc. are all socialistic institution that everyone on this board has benefited from, whether directly or indirectly. This socialism boo-hoo in our current political discourse is baseless and screams of hypocrisy. We have had a socialistic philosophy in our government since before the country's founding. No greater example of this is the Constitution of the United States:
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
- US Constitution Preamble
Just the dawg in me..........
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Certainly you aren't inferring that the General Welfare clause in the preamble intended anything like we are seeing today and have seen in the recent past. If you are, your interpretation is incorrect in my view, and I suppose that is the only way you could have come to some of the conclusions that it appears you have. It has certainly been interpreted in that fashion by many of our esteemed politicians, which is a large part of the problem.
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