DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum the QB

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And the Lions went 4-0 in the preseason. They were certainly one of the top teams in the league last year.

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yet in the preseason, quinn's first three drives against this 0-16 team netted 24 yards and three punts.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/ghs-newsservi...-3-in-preseason

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And you know this how?

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because of all the hype last preseason, the talks of him potentially being the starter before mangini was fired, the talk of him being potentially the starter before trading up for sanchez, and the fact that we traded for him.

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That certainly makes him the QB of their dreams!

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maybe, maybe not but it shows that the top two guys have their qb that they've been training for the past two years. if you don't consider that, you're delusional.

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I'll take actually playing time over holding a clipboard.

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oh you mean, like how the qbs who sit 2-3 years are always better starters than the ones who have to start right away? or are you talking about how quinn has limited playing time too, while predominantly holding a clipboard? or are you saying you want DA to be the starter because he has starting experience?

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I'm by no means saying that BQ is the answer - we just don't know, but anyone who can't see that DA stinks amazes me. We KNOW what we have in him, a QB that his digressed after teams figured him out. I'll take him as a backup any day, but as a starter no thanks - I've seen enough.

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aren't you tired of writing the same crap that everyone else does? or did you simply not read toad's response to that? i'll say this though, the one thing i've learned is cleveland fans are historically terrible at judging qbs. couch, holcomb, garcia, mccown, dilfer, frye, anderson, quinn, dorsey, gradkowski.

it astounds me that people say they know what DA has yet they ignore that 18 starts is not enough to say anything. further, we also know that DA strung some good games before he got pulled for what was supposed to be a cake walk for quinn against the broncos and their 30th defense.

further, if one thing has been painfully clear about the last regime, it's that they could not develop their players. all of the players stayed the same from when they were brought in. rip was awful and i fully expect all of our qbs to get better this year. simply put, whoever is the best qb of those three should and will start. i'll be happy with that, if it's not quinn, will you?

it's even funnier that you make this about DA when i didn't.

This is exactly the point Dong , the BQers talk as if their logic is fact.
I don't give a crap who starts , if that makes me a DAer so be it , I really don't care what they think.
We have no clue as to what Mangini is thinking , but I guess if I was a hard core BQer I would recieve those mind reading abilities too.

I just want to win and I don't think DA can do that for us. I don't know if BQ can, but he deserves a shot IMO. If the coaches see otherwise, I'll still be at the stadium every game cheering for whoever might be starting. If DA comes in and has another pro-bowl season, I will be ecstatic! I'm not going to boo anyone, and I don't hate DA by any means. I just don't think he is the answer - my opinion, I know. And I don't know if BQ or Ratliff is either.

And no, I didn't read the entire thread - I've been reading it on and off over the past several days; don't have time to read every word. Sorry.

i have no problem with quinn being the guy and i'd be just as ecstatic if he turned out to be the guy everyone is selling. that said, i think it's a common mistake to say quinn isn't getting his shot. he knows his shot is now, why do you think he's huddling with daboll so much? he has every shot to be the starting qb and, if the quinn sellers are right, he'll have no trouble taking the starting qb position. that's all i want too, for whichever starting qb to earn his job.

at that point, all the questions would be answered and we can all be happy

U know bro ... I was wondering what the Never Never Land residents like dong and loyal and Y-town were gonna use as there war cry after the draft and BQ was still here ...

and there actually making there biggest reach yet and are now pimping the undrafted 3rd year pro ... lets look at his career highlights so far ....

- he spent his first year on the practice squad

- he spent his 2nd year with his ass firnly planted on the bench

- he has yet to THROW A PASS IN AN NFL REGULAR SEASON GAME ....

- he tore up a bunch of guys who are currently bagging groceries or working security in an nfl pre-season game against us last year ..

if that does not SOUND LIKE ready for prime time and being our starter I do not know what does ... I mean what chance does BQ stand againstt hat pedigree ....

this guy has a better chance of being cut than beating out DA for 2nd string much less starting over BQ ..

these guys are out of their minds .. but then again I guess there initial feelings on the QB job show just how much football intelligence they actually have when it comes to this particular case ...

Django .. I HAVE YET TO SEE ANYTING OUT OF YOUR GOD LOMBARDI .. WHAT HAPPEND BRO ...

"that said, it is not a reach to say that ratliff could be in the race. i made no stretch whatsoever when i pointed out that"

So your logic is that because I hypothesized about us neglecting Sanchez gave credence to us be secure with our QB situation, specifically the before mentioned BQ (insecurity - by the media - of BQ).

So all hypothesizing is now fair game - and equal.

Sorry....but I rest my case - no need to go further it ain't worth it.

your writing makes no sense but i'll try to make sense of it.

it sounds like your take on my take is i believe that us passing on sanchez says we're comfortable with our qb situation and you take issue to that because you said that we're comfortable with quinn. is that right? if so...

like i said, there are many factors. mangini might feel that our quarterbacks, NOT JUST QUINN, are good enough and not worth spending the 5th pick if we're able to trade down, stay with DA and quinn, and get ratliff.

just because YOU feel that sanchez is a franchise qb doesn't mean the rest of the league feels that way. look at the only two teams trying to grab him: the jets and the redskins. one brought in lord favre to sell their overpriced PSLs and the other is run by dan snyder. not saying sanchez can't be damn good because he can, but at #5, for the money he'll be paid, is he worth taking if we have two/three unknowns at qb? for the money he'll be paid? no.

simple answer, your take is too narrow because none of us know how mangini views quinn. the only thing we can take from trading down and passing on sanchez is

1) mangini did not feel the need to address the qb situation at #5 with sanchez
2) mangini obviously did not want sanchez, for reasons we don't know
3) mangini felt there were other needs to address
4) mangini wanted to build up the number of picks we had

once you interjected quinn into your "logic" posts, that's where i had to object because nothing from these actions says anything SPECIFIC about quinn. that's it. and, just because you feel that you have to take a "franchse qb" if you don't have one, means the rest of the league does the same. and don't bring up ryan or flacco. those were 1st round qbs who ended up in great situations after their teams addressed major concerns in the offseason.

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and there actually making there biggest reach yet and are now pimping the undrafted 3rd year pro

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tony romo, jeff garcia, kurt warner

in the 6th round: matt hasselbeck, marc bulger, tom brady

again, NEVER SAID THAT RATLIFF WILL BEAT ANYONE OUT, JUST THAT HE'D BE IN THE COMPETITION.

diam, how heartbroken would you be if quinn didn't pan out? in all seriousness. let's simulate that. i'll flip a coin. those are his odds afterall.

Ratliff's chances of panning out, would require a double headed coin IMO.

Has DA panned out ?
U know he's the 6th rounder who plays for us..not any other team..
Are you still flipping a coin over him, or did you lose it?

I guess I'll use my twice a year or so rule with Mac on U also .. for the most part I do not read U and i will not respond to u more than a couple times a year ... as u just do not know enough about this game to warrant my time .. but this is not football related so I will indulge u ..

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diam, how heartbroken would you be if quinn didn't pan out? in all seriousness.

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heartbroken??? .. *LOL* .. are u serious .. I would NOT BE EVEN A LITTLE HEARTBROKEN .... I would not even be upset .... I would be bummed for about all of a minute or two .. that would be about the extent of it ..

I would be SUPRISED and SHOCKED ... he has all the tools to be a VERY VERY GOOD ONE .. so from a FOOTBALL STAND POINT I would be SUPRISED ...

I do not have this big infuation about BQ cause he is from ND .. al that did was ALLOW ME TO SEE AND LEARN ALOT MORE ABOUT HIM than anyone else on this board .. I watched every snap he took for 4 years ... I also know people in SB and learned alot about the kid .. HE HAS ALL THE TOOLS .. both physical and mental to be a GREAT ONE ...

the only reason I wanted him on Cleveland is cause I believe he will be a VERY VERY GOOD NFL QB ... unlike the Buckeye fans I could care less where a player comes from .. i just want them to be GOOD .. and i do not OVER RATE all the players coming out of ND just cause they do ..

I got news for U .. I think Sanchez can be a VERY VERY VERY GOOD QB in this league .. and even though he went to USC and it meant my boy was gone .. I would have been FINE WITH IT .. as long as we got a few other goodies for my boy .. I did not see it happening (and as usual I was right .. ) ...

I PIMP BQ cause i think he will be a good one ... not cause of his ties to ND .. it really is that simple for me ..

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let's simulate that. i'll flip a coin. those are his odds afterall.

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NOT EVEN CLOSE ... but u do not even know enough to know that U don't know enough about it to do anything but flip a coin .... so u think your coin flip is true .. kinda like ..no, exactly like .. IGNORANCE IS BLISS ...

and like Toad and the rest of the doubters ... YOU'LL SEE ...

now go back and play with the kids u belong with .. cause u do not bring enough to the table to be playing with the big boys ..

j/c

I have to wonder if Ratliff factors into our backup QB race.

diam, save the high and mighty stuff for someone who might give a crap.

simply put, i refuse to believe you won't be heartbroken if he doesn't fail. not necessarily because you are emotionally invested in BQ, which i think you are (my theory is you see some of yourself in quinn and you're trying to live through him), but because you put so much on the line in being the only guy on this forum who supposedly "knows" BQ will succeed. i also know that you know that the success rate of a qb taken in the 1st round is about 50%, maybe a little higher given recent success of some qbs. we both know you took a gamble to be on an extreme for the high payout for "i told you so's", something that i don't agree with but at least can respect. the fact that you refuse any possibility of quinn failing, though, makes your posts laughable.

that said, there is nothing new that we can "discuss" that hasn't been talked about before. i don't think it's a given that quinn will succeed and you do and that's the end of it. that, however, does not make the posters here, including myself, who disagree with you, football stupid.

regardless, we will see what happens this year. i hope quinn pans out. not for you but because that means we're finally set at qb. that said, i don't share your ignorant certainty.

that's what i expected when i saw we traded for him. realistically, he'll be involved in the starter competition for the first week and then eventually compete for backup.

if, though, mangini doesn't like DA/quinn that much, i wouldn't be surprised to see him as our starter. crazier things have happened, like seeing dorsey and gradkowski start for us before.

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however, does not make the posters here, including myself, who disagree with you, football stupid.

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Hey how about .. the blind squirrel found a nut .. we agree on sumptin ..

U and the other posters that don't agree with me on this issue or any one issue are not football stupid (he used that term .. not me .. .. ) .. because of that one thing .. matter of fact .. some can disagree with me on many things and are not football stupid ..

Y-Town is not football stupid .. not even close .. and the fact he disagrees with me here does not make him football stupid .. it just makes him WRONG about this ..

there are however some posters on here that make sense about 10% of the time they talk about football .. that would be the group your included in .. and when u show that little intelligence on any subject ... well .. u said it better than i ever could .... and there is no need to repeat it again ...

and dude .. u do not know me at all .. nice try on the psycho analysis though .. pretty amusing stuff ...

now your back to well earned state of being read only when I'm really really really bored and looking for someone to make me *L* ..

it's ironic that when i did post actual football to prove my stance, it went ignored by you. it's nice to live life with your head in the sand.

i don't see your need to make things personal. i am only here to talk football. don't get why your attitude is tolerable on these boards but must be because people just read your posts and laugh.

or don't read them at all...

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I would be SUPRISED and SHOCKED ... he has all the tools to be a VERY VERY GOOD ONE .. so from a FOOTBALL STAND POINT I would be SUPRISED ...

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There's not enough evidence to support this "FOOTBALL STAND POINT." I hope Quinn, Anderson, or Ratliff does pan out. But the only QB on our roster that we have seen thoroughly is DA. If you or any other BQ supporter are basing your opinions on 1 Broncos game, you don't have enough evidence from a "FOOTBALL STAND POINT." If you are basing opnions off of preseason play, you might as well be looking at Ratliff as well and cannot disregard him in this competition.

Just stating with the friendliest of tone applied

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Y-Town is not football stupid .. not even close .. and the fact he disagrees with me here does not make him football stupid .. it just makes him WRONG about this ..

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BTW, the basis of right in wrong is not belief what one believes. The basis of right and wrong is FACT or what is actually truth. Time will tell on this one.

Of course Ratliff factors into our backup QB race. If he proves to be proficient enough then we'll be able to move DA. If he's not then DA will have to stay.

What's being overlooked here is that Mangini is bringing in players that know his system because of one main reason. It accelerates the learning curve of that position group as a whole.

The QBs will get the system much quicker with a fellow player who knows what the coach is looking for both on the field and in the position meetings. For the most part all of the players we've brought in are not expected to be playmakers or even starters. What they are being counted on is to speed the development of the Browns as a whole and give us a better chance in 2009.

Your arrogance never ceases to amuse me. I do agree with you here though. We brought Ratliff in to be a backup. Note that Mangini found the need to trade for Favre last year. Quinn will start this year, and he will do well. I could see him getting an Aaron Rodgers type extension.

i don't see what you mean by noting the favre trade in relation to trading for ratliff. are you saying that mangini is trending towards trading for the qbs he wants?

i think tannenbaum and ownership had more to do with bringing in favre than mangini. mangini was pretty much forced to taking in favre. if you remember in context, that was a crazy spending offseason for the jets, arguably overpaying for a lot of vets, and it was clear the team wanted to win that season and had pieces everywhere except qb. IIRC, mangini would've been fine going into the season with clemens and ratliff, with talk being that ratliff had a shot at starting but then tannenbaum and ownership traded for favre. partly to win right away and partly to sell those expensive PSLs. if you look at the trade up to take sanchez, reeks as same move as the move to bring in favre.

that said, i think the best example of a new coach inheriting a qb yet wanting someone else would be mcdaniels. he showed that, even with a young up-and-coming pro bowl qb in cutler, who arguably has all the tools to be great in the league, he still tried to trade for cassel because cassel was his guy and as mcdaniels said numerous time, cassel played a large part in his success. if something like this can happen, you can't rule out any consideration of ratliff because he's mangini's guy and mangini wanted him. obviously, ratliff has no regular season experience so realistically, ratliff could come in here and at least one of the two qbs could be leaps and bounds better, but i bet that, at least for the first couple weeks, ratliff will be part of the race because he knows the system far better than the other qbs.


and this isn't directed at you deepthreat, but just making a general point in this thread:

like i said before, i'd like nothing more to see any of the qbs take over and stay there for years to come. after one full swing of the qb carousel in cleveland, i think we can all agree that we're sick of the ride. the thing about fans on qbs though, is if one guy doesn't work out or isn't good enough in their eyes, they (i use "they" because it's not what i want, not because i'm not a browns fan) always want the exact opposite of that qb, thinking that all the problems would be solved. i find it funny how short the memory of most fans are when it comes to qbs, that with each qb, people develop the same, unrealistic expectations, instead of looking for consistent improvement. moreso, it's funnier that people will look for deficiencies instead of improvement to argue that the backup should be the guy (to be fair, in this case, the backup is a highly rated 1st round pick) without thinking about the issues that come with each guy. just take a look at the rac era. we had trent dilfer, a guy who was supposed to be ball control. fans yell that the guy isn't mobile, he's terrible, blah blah. so we put in frye, the mobile tough guy. after taking a pounding, frye shows his happy feet, even though he put up 60+ % completion, a lot of them being check-downs, and people argue that anderson should be starting because frye's average arm strength wasn't good enough. yet now, people are saying that DA is too immobile and we need to go BACK to the guy who is more mobile but has an average arm, forgetting the spotty accuracy already exhibited in the nfl or the scouting reports saying he has happy feet when pressure gets to him, also exhibited in the nfl. boggles my mind.

the only difference this year is that, regardless of the qb, i expect this team to do better because i expect the defense to perform better and i expect us to be able to run better.

NFL Network replayed the 2007 game versus the Bengals tonight... 51-45 Browns.
I gotta give it to Anderson... man he was on fire that day. Getting the ball off quick, & most of his throws were bullets, dead on the money.

Games like that show what he can do when he's ON... it's when he's really OFF that it's a nightmare. and he can go from one extreme to the other from one series to the next. I've long said he's just a wacky QB.... you take the really good, but you know you'll get the really bad.

Mangini got NFL Network to reair that game, so that teams would inquire about Anderson....

If they air the 2nd Bungles game from that year .. let us know how u feel after that one ...

Ya .. it was Chuds fault ..

U have not lerned a damm thing since u been coming to this board .. and thats a shame ...

in the first half if I remember correctly(and everything i say will be from memory ;.. so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong alomg the way .. ) .. we were at about a 50/50 pass/run mix .. A GOOD MIX for us ...

then with about 1:30 left were down 6 - 0 and we get the ball at our 43 .. what would u suggest .. should we have RAN IT at that point ...

Chud does the right thing and tries to put points on the board .. and he succeeded .. problem is DA threw it to the wrong guy ..

13 - 0 ...

on the very next play .. from our 20 ... Chud again tries to put points ont he board ... if u wanna argue he shouldn't have there .. I can see your point .. I could go either way .. OBVIOUSLT he did the wrong thing .. cause BINGO .. DA gives teh Bungles the ball first and goal from the 6 ..

so we go from 6 - 0 to 19 - 0 on 3 plays .. 2 picks and a TD run by the bungles ..

and this is chuds fault how??? ..

now were down 19 - 0 .. hmmm .. and were suppose to POUND IT AT THAT POINT?? ..

we did not have to just throw it .. but we sure as all hell could not expect to just pound it and win the game .. lewis endedup with right around 20 carries .. give ot take 2 or 3 .. NOT BAD WHEN YOUR DOWN 19 - 0 AT THE HALF ..

matter of fact .. I believe on Cinci's 1st or 2nd series .. they turned it over .. and we ran on 1st and 2nd down .. and GAINED SQUADOOSH ...

I'm not quite sure what U expected Chud to do ... ESPECIALLY AFTER WE HUNG 51 ON THEM IN GAME 1 ... it seemed passing was VERY AFFECTIVE against them .

U WERE WRONG BACK THEN .. and your STILL WRONG ..

IIRC, the weather in the two games was very different. That day was extremely windy. I can't remember whether we started out running the ball or passing, but I think we did overcommit to the pass early on.

One thing that did bother me about Chud was that he passed too often when he should have run. He did a good job committing to the run in the Colts game last year, but by then I think it was too late.

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IIRC, the weather in the two games was very different. That day was extremely windy.

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your memory is very good on that point ....

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I can't remember whether we started out running the ball or passing, but I think we did overcommit to the pass early on.

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Not so good here .. WE DID NOT COMMIT TO THE PASS UNTIL AFTER THE HALF WHEN WE WERE DOWN 19 - 0 ..

that much I do remember .. people looked at the final numbers and said .. WOW .. but i specifically remember having these discussions back then ... WE DID NOT COMMIT TO THE PASS UNTIL DA DUG US A HOLE ...

and if i remember correctly .. that game was actually one of DA's better pass % completion days ... not that it matters .. as we al know ..

STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!

but what i did find ironic was how many of the lovers that stood and presented stats for how good he was ... always said on that day how windy it was .. yet JUST IGNORED HIS COMPLETION % ON THAT DAY ...

the tone of this game was set with the two picks DA threw .. it established that Cinci did not have to pass as they sat on a lead .. and dictated that we play catch up ...

I never have nor will i ever blame one guy for a loss .. and this certainly was not DA's fault at all .. but he did make two negative plays that HURT US IMMENSELY in this game .. and it makes me *L* when folks bring up Chud and his game plan ... WHEN HIS GAME PLAN WAS ALTERED DRASTICALLY in a 2 play span right before half .. its LACK OF FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE AT ITS BEST ..

No kidding - I still feel like crap over that game.

"it sounds like your take on my take is i believe that us passing on sanchez says we're comfortable with our qb situation and you take issue to that because you said that we're comfortable with quinn. is that right? if so..."

My take is that like the Movie "The Happening" - There can only be one. When talking about our QB situation.

There is no way that our Staff feel that we actually have 2 Franchise QBs....sorry that is just too out of the way...Maybe Montana, Young were an exception as was Kilmer and Jergunson....with the Redskins.

I'm saying to pass up on Sanchez is that the staff feels we got a Franchise QB in our midst...there is no Satisfied with the "QB SITUATION" as in a Unit...the only "SATISFACTION" out of it would be if we had ONE FRANCHISE QB....the premise of 2 is like too far fetch.

So I insist that common sense says if that is the case - it has to be BQ.

You insist its a "comfort with our QB situation" how does a coaching staff feel comfortable with 2 Backup QBs? or 3? There has to be comfort that we have a Franchise QB. That is where we differ. Cause if DA is in the mix...we know what he is. The NFL knows what he is...and I am sad to say its not a Franchise QB.

So if you wish to state they are on an equal level....Then I strongly feel they can't be satisfied with our QB position and would most definitely had drafted Sanchez!

Pretty much in the nutshell....

"look at the only two teams trying to grab him:"

Yeah down play it to an "ONLY" like that empowers your point.

When was the last time a team tried to move up into the top 5 to get a QB???

When was the last time TWO TEAMS tried???

We both know a prospect is just that and there are no guarantees - but to state that Sanchez didn't pass the litmus test of a NFL PROSPECT who was most certainly considered a Franchise QB - I don't know who was. This wasn't no Alex Smith or Carr or Couch for that matter playing in some honky tonk Offense that just didn't fly in the NFL! So much of the film on this kid related to the NFL.

But still I quantify him as a "PROSPECT" not an established Franchise QB...but if this is whether or not he COULD/SHOULD be regarded as a PROSPECT as a bonafide Franchise QB - there is only opinion but I would think mine has a solid base on that being true.

"simple answer, your take is too narrow because none of us know how mangini views quinn."

Nah...my view simply doesn't concur with yours regarding DA and that is the jist of the matter.

As for my view. I stated it quite simply as my VIEW and stated in depth WHY n HOW I could think it. It wasn't a brain fart...it was my process throughout this draft and stated so prior to the draft - specifically stating I hoped Sanchez would be there when we picked...cause we would see him as our NEW FRANCHISE QB prospect or for me would have closure on how they felt about BQ simply by process of elimination cause no real NFL Football people seemed to view DA as a Franchise QB in the making...only some guys on this board...and others.

and your 1-4 premise...comes down to this one FOOTBALL adage. If you do not have a Franchise QB - you don't pass on one in the draft.

"once you interjected quinn into your "logic" posts, that's where i had to object because nothing from these actions says anything SPECIFIC about quinn."

And if I made "LOGIC" of DA being the Franchise QB...you still would have objected... lol

Its not the premise that we got a Franchise QB is my ASSumption that it is BQ that you object to....basically you are a narrow minded DA guy... "your take is too narrow because " I have a pretty open mind. I have seen and could care less who is our Franchise QB...but logically it can only be BQ. If one is narrow minded its the guy who is in denial here.

JMHO

i see your point of view and can even say that it is a possibility. i simply disagree in your take that it's the only possibility. your theory relies on many parts that simply may not be true: the adage of getting that "franchse guy" still applies today, that sanchez is a "franchise guy" (i bring up the two teams to dispute that the only two moving up were ones that do not have the credibility to say this is a franchise guy, see ross tucker's article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ross_tucker/05/06/sanchez/index.html?eref=T1 ), and that mangini thinks we have a franchise guy on the team.

here's what i know: last season, with mangini and daboll, they were able to take a 39 year old quarterback, who is the all-time leading interception thrower and turned him into a safer passer who didn't turn the ball over. if i'm mangini and daboll, i say to myself: "hell, if we could turn favre into our kind of qb, we can do it with quinn, DA, or ratliff." i don't think mangini sees the need for a "franchise guy" and i think he sees the roster right now for what it is: two serviceable starters and one developing player who could be a surprise. i say serviceable because there is not enough of a body of work to say quinn is a franchise guy but i will agree with you that, at this point, i don't think DA is a franchise guy either. both guys has their strengths and weaknesses, it's the coach's job to maximize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses.it would not surprise me to think that mangini/daboll would have the confidence, after a INT machine like favre, to think they could maximize on DA's strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. i simply want the best qb on the field and the competition gives me that.

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My take is that like the Movie "The Happening" - There can only be one.

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Umm not to be too picky....BUT.....don't you mean "The Highlander"??????

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heartbroken??? .. *LOL* .. are u serious .. I would NOT BE EVEN A LITTLE HEARTBROKEN .... I would not even be upset .... I would be bummed for about all of a minute or two .. that would be about the extent of it ..

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Personally I would be heartbroken. Not because of the player himself, but because it would be bad for the TEAM. What is the best outcome for the Cleveland Browns? For Quinn to suck? Or for him to exceed our expectations and play lights out?

quinn can't exceed most fans' expectations.

spritbro...uh oh...