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Quote:
Quote:
up to when they were 8-3 and favre's arm died.
He had already tossed 13 picks (including three multi-pick games in a row coming out of the bye) and coughed up both fumbles by then. Bottom line: he didn't protect the ball any better earlier in the year than he did when his arm was giving out on him later in the year.
The difference was that the Jets were able to overcome Favre's mistakes earlier in the year. That wasn't the case down the stretch.
not only is that revisionist history....but the math is horribly wrong.
15 TOs in 11 games = 1.36 TO per game
9 TOs in 5 games = 1.8 TO per game
Also, after the arm injury, the TD numbers went down during the same time:
21TDs (1 was rushing) in 11 games = 1.9TD per game
2 TDs in 5 games = 0.4 TD per game
Summary:
So, after the arm injury, an extra TO every other game was added, while at the same time of a 3TD decrease every 2 games.
This is a double-digit point swing in every game!
(since we have Mangini now, I would love to know if Tannenbaum forced him to keep playing Favre or if he really didn't want to bench him....ah well)
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you're right about the INTs, i remembered a more favorable number from another article. that said, daboll was able to get career highs in completion and his avg rating from a 39 year old qb who had no familiarity with their system. i would also say that, in raising his completion, they lowered his INTs in that, if they didn't stress these aspects, the likeliness of more INTs would be higher as well. in yes, net, his INTs were still up there, but i'm sure they prevented even more INTs by helping him focus on the completions. up to and including titans game 245 completions 347 attempts avg 70.6% completion (reaching highs of 78.8 and 78.1 back to back against pats and titans) 20 TDs 17 INTs avg 94.5 rating http://www.nfl.com/players/brettfavre/gamelogs?id=FAV540222
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20TD and 13INT through the Titan game, not 17. Otherwise, good point.
His completion % also took a nosedive after the injury...after the 70% through that game with only one game below 68% to that point, here are the last 5 games:
53%, 64%, 56%, 58%, 50%
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yea you're right, i thought 17 was too high. good catch.
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"Umm not to be too picky....BUT.....don't you mean "The Highlander"??"
shhhhh! I was on a roll 
Dong...it was just my opinion and my answers - you don't have to agree with it. I do feel confident on how it was...more so than the confidence that they made a 39 HOF QB into a "Manage the game" type and there fore can prosper with any OK QB situation. I don't really buy that. But if that is what you strongly believe as opinion...what can I say.
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well i'd rather you be right, honestly. the thought of having our qb position set for 10 years sounds too good.
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Anyone think Minnie will make a move with us now that Favre-gate appears over? Or go with Sage and Tavaris?
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Quote:
now that Favre-gate appears over?
I see no signs that Farve gate is officially over. I heard something on sirius radio earlier today (not sure of the details as I was paying more attention to driving - not my norm but a bunch of people who shouldn't have a license were on the road) about a medical eval of the shoulder and that there might still be a chance of unretirement if he doesn't need surgery but that retirement will be final if the doctors tell he has to have major surgery if he wa nt to continue to throw the football.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Ooops. You are correct sir!! (or as close as you can get with Fav-re). I heard the same thing today after hearing he wasn't coming back yesterday. It's actually pretty funny. Go Brett!!!
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j/c Quote:
CLEVELAND -- I offer up this tidbit for the enjoyment of those who find the ongoing debate on the Browns quarterback situation to be insatiable.
I recently spoke with someone I will identify as a league source. This person does not work for an NFL team but works with NFL teams and has a prominent name.
I asked, "Whom do you think will wind up starting at quarterback for the Browns?"
Without hesitation, the answer was, "Brady Quinn."
The person went on to say that the Browns had two "very subtantial" trade offers for Quinn -- each involved a No. 1 draft pick -- and declined to trade him.
The source would not speculate on whether a trade of Quinn might have been blocked by owner Randy Lerner. The source believes that there will be a true "open competition" between Quinn and Derek Anderson and that Quinn will prevail.
The source does not believe that newly acquired ex-Jet Brett Ratliff will be thrown into the open competition. The source's take on Ratliff: "Eric Mangini likes having him around because he feels comfortable with him and he knows the offense."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/05/tony_grossis_blog_cleveland_br_3.html
early indications would show that i was wrong about my take and i hope i am, as our qb position would be set for a long time. can't wait to see how things play out.
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early indications would show that i was wrong about my take and i hope i am, as our qb position would be set for a long time. can't wait to see how things play out.
Everything we have done and said so far has indicated we're going with a shorter field, ball control, balanced offense, whether it be personnel changes, philosophy or anything else. How that has lead people to believe that DA, (who is the kind of QB you want in a downfield, big play, pass heavy offense) is their lead guy going into the competition is beyond me. I think they're willing to "open it up" just because they want to be absolutely sure of their decision, but I think they know who their QB is already... they just want him to prove it.
Now, where that leaves DA is another matter entirely. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to open the year with Quinn/Ratliff/Harrell if the price on DA is right.
We're... we're good?
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no one thought DA was the "lead" guy, just a guy to compete.
there are no real indications on what our offense will look like at all, just speculation.
if robo is as advertised, he's like another JJ so an offense with a better/stronger o-line, with receivers edwards/robo and rb lewis looks like the 07 offense if anything. it's all scheme and we have no idea what they're doing other than they wanted a stronger running game.
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Quote:
there are no real indications on what our offense will look like at all, just speculation.
How about this: Mangini ran it in NY, Daboll ran it in New York, and it was run in NE.
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Quote:
Quote:
there are no real indications on what our offense will look like at all, just speculation.
How about this: Mangini ran it in NY, Daboll ran it in New York, and it was run in NE.
Yeah, you just could just see that short, safe ball-control offense Favre was running last year. 
In all seriousness...I believe Quinn will open as starter, and DA will finish. Or vice versa.
Our offense on paper is likely to sputter and the right side of our line is suspect.
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Thanks for the article dong...man that sounds familiar 
Well close at least...lol 
Last edited by eotab; 05/11/09 07:01 PM.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Yeah, you just could just see that short, safe ball-control offense Favre was running last year.
You didn't see the Jets much last year, did you? Favre was completing 70% of his passes until he tore his bicep in November. Not even "The Great Brett Favre" completes 70% of his passes if he is constantly going downfield with the ball.
#gmstrong
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You didn't see the Jets much last year, did you?
No, not until the end when the old 'Screw It, I'm Going For It' Favre came back.
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Tony Grossi's blog: Cleveland Browns rejected two trade offers for Brady Quinn, says source by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter Monday May 11, 2009, 2:12 PM CLEVELAND -- I offer up this tidbit for the enjoyment of those who find the ongoing debate on the Browns quarterback situation to be insatiable. I recently spoke with someone I will identify as a league source. This person does not work for an NFL team but works with NFL teams and has a prominent name. I asked, "Whom do you think will wind up starting at quarterback for the Browns?" Without hesitation, the answer was, "Brady Quinn." The person went on to say that the Browns had two "very subtantial" trade offers for Quinn -- each involved a No. 1 draft pick -- and declined to trade him. The source would not speculate on whether a trade of Quinn might have been blocked by owner Randy Lerner. The source believes that there will be a true "open competition" between Quinn and Derek Anderson and that Quinn will prevail. The source does not believe that newly acquired ex-Jet Brett Ratliff will be thrown into the open competition. The source's take on Ratliff: "Eric Mangini likes having him around because he feels comfortable with him and he knows the offense." Link
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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very interesting...
Glad we didn't trade him though... The guy is gonna be a playmaker..
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"The source would not speculate on whether a trade of Quinn might have been blocked by owner Randy Lerner."
More Grossi subtle hatred for our team.
When has Randy Lerner ever got involved with the Football Decisions. Especially after he gives one with so much individual power as Mangini. Randy has never come close to any such moves and to infer that he might on ONE PLAYER is to buy into a lot of speculation on a lot of subject matter that would mean RANDY has been meddling. And we had too many people fired without an inkling of that meddling - I Think not.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Lets see if I understand this thread now//like I didn't before..
Tony Grossi says an NFL guy told him, the Browns were offered first round picks and/substantial deals for Brady Quinn and the Browns turned them down.
Who is this source...Jim Brown??? 
So, what does this mean about Brady Quinn?... Two teams who might have been Denver and Minnesota made offers to Brady Quinn. It is unknown, but, Denver was the team that commented that Brady Quinn was not on the market.
Phil Savage, GM in 2007 drafts BQ. He gives up a second and a first. He gets a fair contract considering he got drafted after the 20th pick. Now we already figured out, Phil Savage is a great scout, not much of a GM. Many people who evaluated the 2007 draft thought Brady Quinn, was the best QB in that draft. The guy who got drafted first, has all the physical skills. He has not done much yet in Oakland. They are so sure of him, that they picked up Garcia in free agency.
So, Brady Quinn holds out. DA blossoms(like the weeds/Dandlions) in my yard) and has an all-pro year. BQ throws about 6 passes at the SF game his rookie year.
The 2008 season, he plays a few games, get a few starts and gets hurt. He had a full preseason.
So the 2009 draft approaches.
New GM and New HC in Cleveland. Experienced teams with GMs and HCs who have been around look at Cleveland and ..they think the Browns are fools...
If they can get BQ and get these guys to make a mistake, their teams are set. Two teams actually went on the record and made offers.
KoMan must have seen something in the college tapes, and NFL tapes that told them to keep BQ.
So BQ is now a two year NFL QB. He has sat in meetings, play in two preseasons and a few games. After this preseason, he should be ready to start the NFL season.
So, it appears four NFL front offices have determined over the past three years that Brady Quinn has a certain level of NFL QB skills.
Now we really don't know how good he is now or how good he can become. We just know that four NFL GMs have thought that he is good enough in regards to a first and second round pick..or whatever was offered..
Lets just wait and see, what Brady Quinn can do for the Browns.
He should be ready.If you like him, hate him, or just don't care. It really does not matter to the Cleveland Browns. They probably are going to start him this September and see what he can do.
Lets just hope all these guys who wanted him on their team saw something and BQ delivers in September and has a good season.
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Quote:
Many people who evaluated the 2007 draft thought Brady Quinn, was the best QB in that draft. The guy who got drafted first, has all the physical skills. He has not done much yet in Oakland.
No question about that. IIRC, a lot of people saw BQ as a better option than Russell because Jamarcus may have been all arm in college.
Quote:
Brady Quinn holds out. DA blossoms(like the weeds/Dandlions) in my yard) and has an all-pro year.
In a good way, but a bad way too, DA muddled things up with his great season in 2007, in terms of delaying BQ's arrival as a starter.
Edit: On the other hand, maybe tBQ not having to be part of last season's train wreck as a starter may have been highly beneficial.
Quote:
So the 2009 draft approaches...Two teams actually went on the record and made offers.
KoMan must have seen something in the college tapes, and NFL tapes that told them to keep BQ.... We just know that four NFL GMs have thought that he is good enough in regards to a first and second round pick..or whatever was offered..
Lets just wait and see, what Brady Quinn can do for the Browns.
My thoughts exactly (admitting we don't know some of the trade scenario stuff 100 per cent for sure). Like I've said before, we need to settle the Brady Quinn debate once and for all. And that's what he's gonna do.
Last edited by lampdogg; 05/12/09 10:11 AM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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HE WILL .... its gonna be strange woth no QB debates going on after this season .. OH what will we talk about ... I for one can't wait to find out ... 
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No QB debate?
Wha...U seriously think there will be no debates in this forum?
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oh i'm sure you can't. 
gmstrong -----------------
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let us also not exclude the reports out of Oakland about Russell's horrible study habits (or lack thereof) and how bad he is looking in the camps.
I have no idea how good Quinn will be, but from everything that has been said (even by DA himself), Quinn will not fail for a lack of effort.
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Well you're talking bout Al Davis..who isn't concerned with smarts..just physical attributes..
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Quote:
early indications would show that i was wrong about my take and i hope i am, as our qb position would be set for a long time. can't wait to see how things play out.
I have to admit, after readig many of your responses on this topic, that I have gained a lot of respect for you in the fact that you can admit you may have been wrong. We could use a lot more of that around here! 
Now as far as my opinion, which by the way could be wrong also, BQ will win this QB competition hands down. Does this prove he will be the long term answer? My take is no, it will just prove he is the best option we have on our roster and he will have to prove it on game day.
The fact that he has sat and watched for 2 seasons is a good thing no matter what the reasons may or may not have been. He was deemed one of the most NFL ready QBs coming out of college and could only benefit from the 2 seasons of watching and learning.
With the knowledge of other teams being interested in trading for Quinn and not hearing of any real interest for Anderson it would have been totally stupid not to have moved BQ while the price was right if management actually did not believe in Quinn as has been reported (a huge smoke screen) as stupid as keeping Anderson after the 07 season lost us value for him in a trade.
Obviously DA is not the long term answer for anyone at QB he will be a better than average backup. Now BQ has a chance at being that long term answer and will have to go out and prove that he is. I believe he will be that answer but who knows I COULD BE WRONG, I hope not! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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thanks, like i've said all along, we all want a qb for the browns. our opinions simply differ on who the guy is, but i'd rather be wrong about quinn and have a qb than be right and not have one. quinn has some things going for him in that he sat for a while and he's supposed to have good intangibles. what makes me more comfortable, regardless of who the guy is, is that we have an OC who was a qb coach and we have a well-reputed qb coach as well. i had no confidence in rip scherer and i expect all of our qbs to keep improving. i just hope rip didn't mess up too much stuff (i remember he changed some of quinn's mechanics, for the good or bad, we don't know). and with a starting qb, diam, the discussion'll be who the backup qb should be
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Quote:
I recently spoke with someone I will identify as a league source. This person does not work for an NFL team but works with NFL teams and has a prominent name.
Gee Tony .. could ya be a little less specific? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He meant me.
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I was thinking that it was Quinn's agent ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
I recently spoke with someone I will identify as a league source. This person does not work for an NFL team but works with NFL teams and has a prominent name.
Gee Tony .. could ya be a little less specific?
Ernie Accorsi (sp?) was the first name that popped in my head. This of course is assuming (why, I don't really know) that Grossi isn't yanking this one out of his rear like everything else lately.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Does this guy know anything about the Browns?  Quote:
Minicamp quarterback battles are brewing
by John Czarnecki
John Czarnecki has been the editorial consultant for FOX NFL Sunday since its 1994 inception. This season marks Czarnecki's 30th year covering the NFL. He is one of 44 selectors to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
While the will-he or won''t-he discussions revolve daily around Brett Favre and his fragile right arm and battered ego, there remain some other truly interesting quarterback debates throughout the NFL.
In a recent check of spring minicamps and also OTA workouts, there are already four teams with simmering quarterback controversies — Cleveland, San Francisco, Tampa Bay and Oakland — and several others where there's a new starter under the microscope, plus more with questionable returning starters.
A quarterback's psyche can be easily bruised in the NFL. And that's what makes all this talk all the more interesting. I mean, does anyone think that Tarvaris Jackson and Sage Rosenfels really believe Vikings coach Brad Childress when he says not to worry about all these Favre rumors? It's got to be tough to go to work under those conditions. But enough about Favre (silly me, it's an easy trap).
BROWNS: Derek Anderson vs. Brady Quinn
There is no question that the new Browns' hierarchy seems to prefer Derek Anderson over fan-favorite Brady Quinn, despite the front office unwillingness to trade the Notre Dame kid prior to last month's draft. And what kind of a mixed signal is that for Quinn? They want him, but they don't want him!
This competition figures to intensify once training-camp practices are open to the public. Coaches will be charting every throw in practices and in preseason games. But coach Eric Mangini has plenty of experience at running a quarterback circus from his three New York summers, therefore this Anderson-Quinn battle should be a piece of cake for him. Just imagine, going from Brett Favre to this?
Czar's QB prediction: In the end, Quinn should end up the starter if this will be decided in training camp workouts, because Anderson has never been a great practice player.
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hehehe...the guy was almost comical...lol
But then we do all know that DA is not a practice player...
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Exactly, it's BQ & not Anderson who's said to be more of a gamer than a practice guy. And this: Quote:
There is no question that the new Browns' hierarchy seems to prefer Derek Anderson over fan-favorite Brady Quinn...
No question??? How did he reach that conclusion?
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Quote:
No question??? How did he reach that conclusion?
I'm guessing his source was either DA's agent or Mr. Fraley ... 
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J/C Anytime we think our QB position is up in the air or bad...remember that there's always a few teams that have it worse: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jim_trotter/05/14/jamarcus/index.htmlIf the Raiders' goal is to see JaMarcus Russell become an elite quarterback, they have a funny way of showing it. That's not meant to be a cheap shot at the Raiders, whose league-low 24 victories over the past six seasons have made them the butt of countless jokes. Rather it's a sincere way of saying I just don't understand how they're handling Russell. He struggled for most of his first 1½ seasons but finally showed flashes of promise last December, when he threw two touchdown passes in each of his final three games after tossing only five in his previous 11 games combined. He also completed more than 50 percent of his passes in those games after finishing beneath that mark in six of his previous 11 outings. But instead of building on that, the Raiders brought in a new quarterbacks coach (Paul Hackett), a new passing game coordinator (Ted Tollner) and hired wideout and tight end coaches who've never been lead position coaches in the NFL. Also, instead of adding an experienced receiver who could be a security blanket for Russell, they plan to rely on rookie Darrius Heyward-Bey, who was taken with the seventh pick in this year's draft. "Also those things have set him back a year," said one of Russell's former coaches. Drawing long-term conclusions from a May minicamp is always dangerous, but after watching Russell last weekend it's not a stretch to say the odds are against him becoming a consistent playmaker this year. The strong-armed former LSU product elicited occasional "wows" from onlookers, such as when he found tight end Tony Stewart with a laser pass down the right seam. But mostly he struggled with his accuracy and touch, at one point tossing six consecutive incompletions. None of this should come as a surprise. Young quarterbacks typically struggle when faced with major changes. The Raiders needed only to have looked across the bay, where 2005 No. 1 pick Alex Smith, who has had a disappointing career with San Francisco, is now on his fifth coordinator in as many seasons. At the same time Russell cannot be absolved of blame should he struggle. Elite QBs are usually gym rats who are consumed with the game. No one has ever described Russell in that manner. At the owners meetings in March, coach Tom Cable spoke positively of Russell but added: "If he can accept the responsibility of being an NFL quarterback -- working more, working harder, working longer than everybody else, accepting the responsibility that his teammates look to him as the face of the organization, that he has to go above and beyond almost on a daily basis... (if) he can accept that and become that, he'll be fine. He'll be great." If? IF?! The Raiders can wrap the Russell situation in a positive bow if they like, but the signing of veteran QB Jeff Garcia easily can be construed as a means of protecting themselves "if" Russell doesn't accept the leadership reins. Garcia seemed to echo Cable when he told the Contra Costa Times of Russell: "He has to understand it takes a certain drive and dedication (to be successful), not only how you perform on the field but how teammates follow your lead." Russell seems reluctant to take the lead at times. He skipped some voluntary workouts earlier in the offseason -- some speculated it was due to the death of a close uncle -- but Yahoo! Sports also reported that he blew off scheduled February workouts with a college teammate because he wanted to relax. The good thing for the Raiders is that it's only May. The bad thing? It's already May. Send comments to siwriters@simail.com
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341 |
Quote:
Russell seems reluctant to take the lead at times. He skipped some voluntary workouts earlier in the offseason -- some speculated it was due to the death of a close uncle -- but Yahoo! Sports also reported that he blew off scheduled February workouts with a college teammate because he wanted to relax.
The good thing for the Raiders is that it's only May. The bad thing? It's already May.
wow. I'm glad I'm not a Raiders fan, that's a crazy organization.
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