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Well now that the draft is over, we can focus on the upcoming season.
We pulled of a good trade and brought in Elam, Coleman, and Ratliff from the Jets(Coleman and Elam should be able to come in and contribute right away) We also bought in 2 young wide outs
(I was pimping Robiskie Big time before the draft. This kid is the next Keenan McCardel, don't have top-notch speed but will make big catches when the game is on the line)
We also addressed our OL with a very good Center in Mack.
We didn't do a ton of "big moves" in Free Agency this.
So the question is....we will be able to truly compete in the AFC North Division this year, our 1st year under Mangini?
Remember in Mangini's 1st year with the Jets he beat Bill Bellichik's Patriots squad which is a very good football team.
What kind of record do you think this team can get? 8-8? better? worse?
I think our season hinges on 2 things.
1. How will Quinn fair?
2. Will Jamal Lewis regain is 2007 form?
If both 1 and 2 come to fruition this year, this team could realistically win 11 games.
If Lewis struggles, and Quinn has a rocky year, 6-10 is not out of the question....i think our season hinges on Quinn and Lewis....they will decide our fate.
so what do you folks think...will we be capable of competing this year? or will it be like last year again?
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2007 and 2008 told me one thing.
I have no freaking clue. I think this team will be competitive and I don't think they'll lose 12 games...and they won't win 12 games. That is about as far as I can go with a prognostication.
you had a good run Hank.
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Yep. At this point it's a guessing game... I've got my hopes up every year since our return only to have them deflated. This year I'm going to take it in one game at a time. If we lose I'll look forward to the next game. If we win I'll  then look forward to the next game. 2-14 wouldn't surprise me... 14-2 is unlikely.
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Well i think we are gonna have a lot of new starters this year so it will take some time for the team to gel. On offense we are replacing Winslow at TE, Stallworth at WR, 3/5ths of the Oline C,RG, and RT, plus (my assumption) Quinn will be the starting QB. Defensively we are replacing Davis and McGinest at LB, Jones at S, and possibly Robaire Smith at DE. With that said i think we will be a lot better team by the end of the year then at the beginning. You also have to factor the fact that we have 2 pretty good teams in our division in Pittsburgh and Baltimore plus if Cincy hits on some of their boom or bust picks they could be pretty good to now that Carson is back. As of right now i think we'll win 6 or 7 games this year.
#gmstrong
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8-8,....
Just like everyone else in this league,.....
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The NFL is the the most difficult to predict records of each team before the season starts. I remember last year I thought for sure Atlanta would be the worst, followed by Miami, Kansas City, Cincy, Baltimore, Chicago, and Detroit. I thought at the worst we would go 6-10, even with the tough schedule.I really thought we could compete for the Super Bowl.
At this time of the year everybody looks good on paper. What makes prognosticating so difficult are the injuries. When you have as many injuries as we did, you get records like the one we got last year.
I really do believe that most teams are close to being even as far as talent goes. Just look at all the parity evey year. What seperates the successful teams to the rest is staying healthy, luck, and having a few playmakers that could put you over the top. This time last year many thought we were way better than baltimore. this year it's the exact opposite. that doesn't mean we can't turn it around this year.
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I just watched this James Davis highlight reel from youtube, and I really came away impressed. The guy hustles on every play... He works for that extra yard. Davis and Harrison could do some damage. Not to mention Jamal Lewis, if he can come out swinging as he did in 2007. Our offense really stepped it up. We drafted the best Center in the draft... got two quality WR's with great height, and a thumping RB that can pound the ball, but also make a quick move to get past you. I likes.....  They are setting up this offense pretty nicely. As far as the defense, I'm hoping everything just clicks, and they play like a team, and limit points. Thats all I can ask. Veikune goes 100% every snap. The other LB is going to be more like a leader on the field. Telling everyone where to go.. I like the two corner pick ups too... We definitely needed corner depth. No way I could take another season of Terry Cousins... 
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Considering the changes in personnel, coaching and systems. Factor in the 2009 schedule. Then add those pesky games they have to play every week, and I can't tell you one thing for certain. Nobody knows how we'll do. Nobody.
Will we be capable of competing? Absolutely. Will we? God knows. I won't have many qualms about our defense if our offense comes out and starts clicking right away. If we're dicking around, dropping balls, looking like the keystone Browns, putting up 6-7 points a game, then we're just where we left off at the end of '08 and could be looking forward to picking first in 2010. Or, we could end up being the surprise of the league with a motivated, disciplined, hard working club who shows up every week and takes nothing for granted. In that case, we may actually have a decent season, 8-8, possibly 9-7, IMO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Will we compete this year?
No.
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Quote:
2007 and 2008 told me one thing.
I have no freaking clue. I think this team will be competitive and I don't think they'll lose 12 games...and they won't win 12 games. That is about as far as I can go with a prognostication.
That sums up my thoughts. Who the hell knows? We'll be better than we were last year IMO. 2008 was a lost cause from training camp on & we did have a brutal sked. It was a disaster, & hopefully not a harbinger of things to come. We have some good pieces on our team.
On the other hand, all these changes might see growing pains but so far I like Mangini and we have some talent on the roster, Mangini isn't starting from scratch like RAC did.
I don't know about 2009, I guess is what I'm sayin'. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
So the question is....we will be able to truly compete in the AFC North Division this year, our 1st year under Mangini?
Compete to win the division? No
Compete week in week out to win more games than we did last year? Yea, I think we should.
yebat' Putin
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YES
New regime, new locker room. I think they got rid of the trouble makers, Brought depth to our O and D lines. He also brought in a jet in all three layers of our defense. That will help immensely to get the D all on the same page. I think Elam will work out very nicely. And Belle needs to step up this year.
Offensively...I think injuries had a lot to do with it last year and both QB's got unfair shake. Stallworthless out half the season, JJ hurt, Winslow out/attitude, line messed up and no running game. To top it off BE drops lost a few games. Whoever wins the starting job I think will shine this year. Also give BE a shot to redeem himself and with more help at WR maybe it will take some pressure off him and perform better.
Dont take me wrong... I think we will be able to compete this year but we are still a 1 or 2 years away to making a push in the playoffs.
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Yes. We picked smart, strong players.
That guy from Hawaii can contribute right away as a situational rusher...so can Robiskie and Mack. Massaquoi I don't know because I don't watch Georgia.
That's 3 starters on Day One, not counting the Jets we got. That's four or five.
I really like this runningback too.
The rest of the guys are developmental players.
But I really think we got tougher both mentally and physically today and yesterday. I feel good going into this season if the QB plays well.
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Quote:
Will we compete this year?
No.
Care to elaborate?
I think we go 7-9. We will win 2 we shouldn't and lose 3 or 4 we should win.
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/iVP5Po2.png)
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Mangini is continuing to build a soild foundation, He is picking up where Phil & Romeo left off, yes there were a few choices Phil made Mangini dosent agree with but for overall the cubert isnt bare, Phil tried to make one big push last year to make the playoffs and give them a few more years but it didnt work and there gone, I do think we will be a more soild of a team, there's gonna be areas we lack at but I do also believe were gonna be a soild team. I like our draft, I dont comment to much on players on this board, becuase if you disagree with someone who thinks thier the 2nd coming of Mel Kiper than well you all know it ant worth it to me, but we drafted solid, I like it and for me 2 OL in the first round in 2 years......Thats what my Browns are all about...
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Quote:
Will we compete this year?
No.
Care to elaborate?
I think we go 7-9.
Depending on your definition of "compete" aren't you both pretty much saying the same thing? Because I take the word compete to mean compete for something meaningful then 7-9 ain't cuttin' it.
Having said that, at this point I'd be surprised if we sniff 8-8 but God knows I've been wrong before.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I think that our team has all of the makings of the '07 team, except with a worse "D"......we definitely sured up the "O" line.....added a couple of WR's....I think we should be able to put up some points, IMO, it will come down to whether or not our "D" shows up.......we will have ALOT of young players running around like some chickens with their heads cut off...... .......so if they can get lucky from time to time and make some plays...who knows.........I for one was completly pi^&ed off about the draft wre had...I thought that we had left some players on the board that could have made a bigger impact than what we got.....but we have what we have, so I guess I had better just suck it up...........
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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"That guy from Hawaii can contribute right away as a situational rusher...so can Robiskie and Mack. Massaquoi I don't know because I don't watch Georgia."
So you stayed up late on Saturday nights watching Cal & Hawii play football.Odd behavior for a college kid.
The majority of people like the Mack pick,a lesser amount the Robo selection.Only a select few know anything the others,and fewer still have actually seen them play.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I'll just say that my opinion is that, until we play the games, we can't possibly know if we'll be competitive or not. But, that's JMHO.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Just as long as we don;t look like the " looking like the keystone Browns "  Watched the presser at the " OTHER SITE " .. First time I have seen ManKo ... No doubt in my mind who runns the show .. George should have the title of assistant operations Manager ..Not GM ..
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Who knows? I'm kind of waiting for camp to see where we stand. Maybe a pre-season game or two might tell us something, or not.
8-8 would be very nice. I don't know if they can do that but I'm not going to go nuts as long as everyone is pulling hard and playing football.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Quote:
"That guy from Hawaii can contribute right away as a situational rusher...so can Robiskie and Mack. Massaquoi I don't know because I don't watch Georgia."
So you stayed up late on Saturday nights watching Cal & Hawii play football.Odd behavior for a college kid.
The majority of people like the Mack pick,a lesser amount the Robo selection.Only a select few know anything the others,and fewer still have actually seen them play.
No...I just know the nature of the position Veikune plays. Yes he has some coaching up to do to learn the OLB position, but he can come in right now, put his hand down and get after the QB on 3rd down. Kam did it his rookie year. A guy like LaMarr Woodley did it his rookie year before earning the starting gig in year two...I expect him to play on 3rd and long and get after it. There's not much tape of him on the internet...but keep an eye on his motor...damn man.
I've seen some Cal games...Mack is a big, strong first round center. Of course he can fit in right now. You draft first rounders to play now. While he's a rookie, he'll be better than Fraley right off the bat. He's a very safe pick with low bust potential, meaning the Browns will be a better team DAY ONE because of him.
I've seen enough of Robiskie over the years to know what he is, and I respect the hell out of the opinion of Mike Mayock, who thinks he can catch 60-70 balls as a rookie. Plus, while he wasn't a West G killer...he was a Michigan killer and expect him to be a Pittsburgh killer. I like that. McShay says he's doesn't have much upside because he's as close to a finished product as you'll find...I say screw that, his body's going to continue to develop and he's going to continue to learn tricks against NFL defenses that he didn't have to use in college. I'm well aware that all the crap I've talked about him is gonna come back to bite me in the ass in a big way...and I'm gonna love every second of it because the Browns will be a better team because of it.
James Davis...I know that runningbacks can contribute right away regardless of where they're drafted, if they're any good (in terms of running the ball, not nuances like pass protection). Usually late round backs are a great value.
Maivia and the DB's are probably special teams guys to start off...but the rest, I think, could play a sizeable role in our team this season.
I have no idea about Massaquoi because receivers do have high bust potential and he's not as polished as Robiskie. I like knowing that he likes to block though. I'm not counting on him like I am Robiskie for THIS year...in the future, who knows?
All our guys have SMARTS in common, meaning they're gonna learn the system quick. We walked away from Day One with two starters and two players with potential to fill key situational roles this season. Day two we got a special teams linebacker, two special teams DB's and a runningback who can possibly fill a key role for us.
That doesn't even factor in Elam and Coleman...I don't know how good Elam will be but I do know that at the very least our DL depth will not suffer this year like it did last year every time Shaun Rogers had to take a breather. (Rogers and S. Smith at nose, Williams, R. Smith, Coleman and Mosely at end...that's a pretty solid group right there)
This team has some serious potential if Quinn can emerge. I never thought I'd be saying this today, but getting all those Jets and the four first day picks was HUGE for this team...add in the fact that the top two picks have very low bust potential and you HAVE to feel good about it.
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Allow me to go more into detail about what I said earlier.
I think there are a couple of key players who will determine how we do next season:
1)Whoever the QB is. This is the biggest thing, no matter who the QB is, if he has a good season, we will not be losing 12 games. In fact, if we get good, smart QB play, there is a good chance we are 7-9,8-8,9-7.
2)How does JL respond? The regime has pretty much given him a vote of confidence this next year without drafting a running back high. He has been given an offensive line where he will be able to run anywhere, hopefully we won't see pitter patter everywhere again this year.
3)Can BE catch he ball? If he can catch the ball and we get quality QB play...I could see us putting a scare into Ratbirds/Steelers.
4)Can we FINALLY stop the run? We picked up one of the best 3-4 run stopping DE's in the NFL with Coleman, now can we get quality LB play from everyone? That is the question.
5)A mythical pass rush. Rob Ryan believes he can get to Wimbley, we also have Hall who has shown the ability to get to the QB before. We drafted a possible opposite side rush linebacker in Veikune, if he pans out. Can Bowens provide quality pass rushing as well? If we can be average in the NFL at rushing the passer, that will go a long way.
I know, these are pretty well known but I really don't think anyone could give us a solid answer on any of these things right now. If I absolutely had to pick a record this year, I'd probably pick 6-10 or MAYBE 7-9.
you had a good run Hank.
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Everybody has said enough about the additions and losses among the players. I don't need to add anything.
I'm saying yes just based on the new regime and philosophy. I think we will see Mangini and staff be tougher and coach much more discipline and consistency out of our guys. Romeo was a nice guy, but unfortunately too much of a NICE guy.
However, considering how good the Steelers & Ravens already were, along w/ their offseason moves and the Bengals getting Palmer back, along w/ their offseason moves, who knows how it will all play out?
But yes, I think we will, at least, COMPETE.
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Anyone else listen to the Mangini press conference?
Love the way we were so thorough going through the draft process.
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Another thing that maybe some should consider.
Bell was hurt most of the yr. last yr. so essentially he is like an extra 4th round pick this yr.
He comes into camp healthy and with a full offseason under his belt and he may be able to contribute?
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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I'm predicting 9-7. Last year, our defense was no worst than the year before, but what killed us was our lack of offense. Our problem was simple: O-Line play. DA does great when he has a little time to throw, but when under pressure, he struggles. Our line got very little push in the run game. Having Mack and Tucker in the middle is going to make all the difference in the world. I consider Shaffer and St. Claire a wash, but Tucker is one of the best right guards in the league, and Mack will be the best center. Not to mention, Steinbach should actually be healthy. We have Womack, Hank, and Hadnot as depth.
I also think Quinn will be a big upgrade over DA at quarterback. He is more accurate with better smarts, and he can read defenses much better. All that DA has over Quinn is arm strength, which I feel is very overrated.
Jamal still has some left. He struggled playing behind a weak offensive line last year. He will be much better this year. Harrison and Davis will be productive in spelling him off, and Vickers is a great lead blocker. Our run game will be much better this year.
Braylon should be better this year. He can't be any worst, and he has all the talent in the world. Rucker, Heiden, and Royal can replace Winslow sufficiently. Robo will make a big impact from day one, and hopefully Massaquoi can contribute, but I'm not holding out there. It is possible Stallworth could contribute, if not hurt, suspended, or otherwise off the field.
Defensively, we have made improvements. Rogers will dominate just like last year and Williams should be great. He played well being hurt all of last year. Robaire and Coleman will double team the end spot, and it will be solid. Sean Smith, Rubin, and Mosely as depth sounds pretty good.
Barton is an upgrade over Davis, and he will help out our run defense. Bowens can provide a pass rush on the outside. Veikune should be stout against the run and get after the quarterback a little. Hall was pretty good last year, and he has a lot of potential. We know D'Qwell is good. Wimbley has athleticism, he just needs to learn some more moves. I've pretty much given up on him.
Pool is very athletic and made strides last year. He is finally starting to live up to his potential. I see the combination of Elam and Pool being better than Pool and Jones. Pool can finally play his actual position and go up close to the line to enforce the run. Elam is much better in pass coverage than either Pool or Jones. Adams as depth is pretty good there.
Wright and McDonald are both good enough to be solid starters. McDonald is much better than advertised, and Wright is good. I see Francies stepping in right away and making an impact, maybe as a nickel. The guy is loaded with talent. Carey can contribute as well. Ivy and Poteat are far from good, but they aren't overly terrible. Both are better than Cousin was.
With Cribbs, Dawson, Zastadil, and Pontbriand, we know we have a good special teams.
We can win some games. Mangini is a good coach and we do have talent. Now we just need to live up to our potential.
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Competing for what???
Super Bowl? No
Division? Not likely
Playoffs? Sure, I think we can be in a position to have a shot in mid-December. In other words, be playing games that matter near the end of the season.
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Quote:
Competing for what???
I took it as just competing. As in not getting absolutely destroyed. As in giving everybody a good to hard fought game.
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Quote:
As in not getting absolutely destroyed. As in giving everybody a good to hard fought game.
Isn't that kinda the basic (lowest) standard for any NFL team? Not holding the Browns to a very high standard are we?
Last edited by crazyotto55; 04/27/09 10:56 AM.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
Competing for what???
Super Bowl? No
Division? Not likely
Playoffs? Sure, I think we can be in a position to have a shot in mid-December. In other words, be playing games that matter near the end of the season.
If you aren't at least in position for the playoffs come December, then you aren't competing.... and I don't think we will be.
I see us as 7-9 or 8-8, and that just ain't gonna get it done in the AFC.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
If you aren't at least in position for the playoffs come December, then you aren't competing.... and I don't think we will be.
I see us as 7-9 or 8-8, and that just ain't gonna get it done in the AFC.
From one season to the next, we never know what the "standard" for the playoffs will be. Who would have foreseen the dominance of the Steelers and Ravens in 2008? However, it is more likely than not for a team with a .500 record in December to have a reasonable shot at the playoffs. Things may have to fall the right way - but the games are still meaningful. Teams that finish 7-9 or 8-8 are only two games out of the playoffs. Given the parity of the NFL, any team that finishes .500 will probably have been in the playoff hunt near the end of the season.
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I believe there'll be a bigger learning curve if Quinn is the starter because of his lack of experience, and when we honestly look at the talent level of this team compared to the others in our division, can we really say we're better than the Rats or the Steelers?
No, we can't.
So can we compete for the playoffs this year? In a league where anything can happen, we're probably forced to admit we're a longer shot than the Steelers or the Rats.
Yeah, we've upgraded our center and our MLB, but we're in essentially the same place at OLB. Health gets us a little stronger on the defensive line. We've drafted receivers but as most acknowledge and understand, receiver is one of the slowest positions to develop. Those were investments in the future as much as the present.
Will we be "capable" of competing? Sure. Are we "likely" to be competing? No, we're not, which is why I wasn't really happy that the organization took the position that it'd be smarter to do some rebuilding. Once we started in that direction, I'm happy with the moves that were made based on that premise, but because of that direction, our goals became long-term instead of short-term.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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j/c...
Define 'compete'...
If you believe win=compete...we will win a few.
If what you mean by compete, will the Browns play hard and keep the games close, I would say they would play every game hard and keep most games close.
I dream of a Browns team that surprises many of our opponents this season and wins games no one expected them to win....then reality sets in.
Mangini is installing a new offense and defense that will take time and reps to perfect.
I expect the Browns to be a better team in the second half of the season as everything will be new to most of our players now. When teams bring in a new coaching staff, the offense usually takes longer to establish than the offense.
How quickly the offense gels could determine how quickly the team begins to win.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 344
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 344 |
Quote:
Just as long as we don;t look like the " looking like the keystone Browns
We have some Smart guys with Good motors that Won't Quit! Stallworthless & KW2 are gone. If BE doesn't Shut Up and Catch the ball, he will be joining 'em! IMO Competing and winning are not exactly the same. I consider competing as playing to the Best of your ability and not taking plays off, or staying on the sidelines for a hang-nail.  I truly feel that if we have the talent, Mangini will get these guys to play! IMO Also just a lil personal rant here, All the Pundants have been praising Flacco's play from last season, but I believe that he had 14TD & 12Int's. Brady should be a Super-Star with those stats being the benchmark! JMHO Go Brownies!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I think just having Mangini instead of Romeo should get us 2-3 wins. Add that to an improved coaching staff and roster. And who knows....
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
we're in essentially the same place at OLB.
Except without the monster run stuffing veteran. McG may have lost a step on pass coverage and pass rush, but he was a beast against the run. Unless Veikune or Hall REALLY step up, we are going to miss him on 1st & 2nd downs, IMHO.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
That guy from Hawaii can contribute right away as a situational rusher...so can Robiskie and Mack.
Sorry Ammo, Robiski and Mack will never contribute as situational pass rushers.
Had to do it. Your ENG 101 professor would be very disappointed in you.  
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
It's always hard to predict the NFL season in April. Crazy things happen every year. I'd say if everything goes right, we might be able to be a lower-tier playoff team ala Atlanta and Miami last year. If everything goes wrong, we'll be back picking in the top 5 again. I think the Ravens and Steelers were probably the 2 best teams in the NFL last year, at least down the stretch. So thats always tough being in a division like that. Again though, things change very quickly in the NFL. My initial hunch as far as a prediction goes was to say 7-9. Vegas odds seem to back that up with a vegas line of 6.5 over -140, not that I'm a betting man or anything. 
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,639
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,639 |
I think 10-6 and is about the best we would do. I say this largely because of our strength of schedule, ours being relatively easy this year. I think 7-9 is most likely. I look forward to watching a team with discipline. It seems like we have a brighter group not only on the field but upstairs as well. That doesn't always translate into winning football teams but I look forward to seeing the difference. This is the first year where I really really just don't know. With Savage and RAC I felt like I could sorta see what kind of year we had coming. I even predicted that we'd struggle least year.
Reality is the playoffs are not likely if the Rats continue on the upward trajectory again this year. It's going to be Pitt and Balt racing to the finish. I just want to take one gmae from each of them. Seriously, that alone would be a great feat and something wonderful to build on.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum So will we becapable of competing
this year?
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