DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum At This Point - What's the Weakest Part of the Team?

So far now, we've gotten a chance to at least gossip the Draft, and MOST of the Off-Season Pickups, what do you feel is the Weakest Part of the Team?

I'm going to copy a post from another Forums, that we were talking on the Browns Depth.

Offense

Left Tackle
Joe Thomas
Isaac Sowells
Brandon Braxton

Left Guard
Eric Steinbach
Kurt Quarterman
Marlon Davis

Center
Alex Mack
Hank Fraley
Dustin Fry

Right Guard
Floyd Womack
Rex Hadnot

Right Tackle
John St. Clair
Ryan Tucker

Tight End
Robert Royal
Steve Heiden
Martin Rucker
John Madsen
Aaron Walker

Wide Receiver
Braylon Edwards
Josh Cribbs
Mohamed Massaquoi
Syndric Steptoe
Devale Ellis
Mike Furrey
Donte Stallworth
David Patten
Brian Robiskie
Paul Hubbard
Lance Leggett
Jordan Norwood

Quarterback
Brady Quinn
Derek Anderson
Brett Ratliff
Richard Bartel


Fullback
Lawrence Vickers
Charles Ali

Running Back
Jamal Lewis
Jerome Harrison
Noah Herron
James Davis
Marcus Thomas

Defense

R Defensive End
Kenyon Coleman
Robaire Smith
Shaun Smith
Louis Leonard

Nose Tackle
Shaun Rogers
Ahtyba Rubin

L Defensive End
Corey Williams
C.J. Mosley
Santonio Thomas
Melila Purcell
Adam Hoppel

WSO Linebacker
Kamerion Wimbley
David Veikune
David Holloway

WSI Linebacker
D'Qwell Jackson
Bo Ruud
Titus Brown
Marcus Bernard

SSI Linebacker
Eric Barton
Leon Williams
Beau Bell
Jonathan Foster

SSO Linebacker
David Bowens
Alex Hall
Kaluka Maiava
Phillip Hunt

Cornerback
Eric Wright
Brandon McDonald
Corey Ivy
Gerard Lawson
Coye Francies
Hank Poteat
Don Carey
Bryan Williams

Strong Safety
Abram Elam
Mike Adams
Hamza Abdullah
Nate Ness

Free Safety
Brodney Pool
Nick Sorensen
Jason Venson

Special Teams

Punter/Holder
Dave Zastudil

Kicker
Phil Dawson

Long Snapper
Ryan Pontbriand

Punt Returner
Joshua Cribbs
Syndric Steptoe
Gerard Lawson
Bryan Williams

Kick Returner
Joshua Cribbs
Syndric Steptoe
Gerard Lawson
Bryan Williams

Thoughts? I think this includes everyone so far.

I don't like the right side of our line.

IMHO, in this order:

SSO Linebacker
David Bowens
Alex Hall
Kaluka Maiava
Phillip Hunt

Right Guard
Floyd Womack
Rex Hadnot

Right Tackle
John St. Clair
Ryan Tucker

WSO Linebacker
Kamerion Wimbley
David Veikune
David Holloway

And we'll pay for it in losses until these positions are sufficiently retooled.

I couldn't agree more. RG is the weakest link.

sad too say- the weakest link right now is the QB. then the OLB, then the RT and RG, RB and DE. If Braylon is traded, add WR to the list.

We know what we have in Anderson, we have no idea what we have in Quinn. If we don't have a QB, we are in trouble. I think Quinn will get it, but right now the QB is a glaring weak link until proven otherwise.

Pass rush.

Right Guard
Floyd Womack
Rex Hadnot

Personally, I'm not too high on either. Womack is getting to old, and Hadnot is a Backup at best.

L Defensive End
Corey Williams
C.J. Mosley
Santonio Thomas
Melila Purcell
Adam Hoppel

Williams is about the only LDE I like, but most of the other guys have had very limited playing time, but we do not have an elite pass rusher at DE.

WSI Linebacker
D'Qwell Jackson
Bo Ruud
Titus Brown
Marcus Bernard

Again, not an very impressive listh of Weakside Linebackers.

SSO Linebacker
David Bowens
Alex Hall
Kaluka Maiava
Phillip Hunt

It's hard to put them all into the same category, but there is a LOT of Potential in this list.

Right Tackle
John St. Clair
Ryan Tucker

St. Clair is getting too old, but I do like Tucker.

Tight End
Robert Royal
Steve Heiden
Martin Rucker
John Madsen
Aaron Walker

Maybe I'm too used to seeing Winslow there as a BIG Passing Target, but I think Royal and Rucker, and even Heiden should be able to suffice. I was debating on putting TE's in with the weakness, but who knows.

Italics are the players that I feel are our weakness

They don't have a super bowl ready team by team togetherness, and that is the weakest link. I have a problem with the talks about trading everyone with team experience. They only have one receiver Edwards who can win in the playoffs and has years on the team. A trade of him even straight up for T. Owens or R . Moss would be a detriment, because the team continuity wouldn't work. They've got about a hundred days to get their act together to get a winning record at the start of the season. The right tackle right guard position are not solid and If I were GM I'd pursue Levi Jones today.
Teams that win championships have characteristics, like being good or above average for a long time, keeping a team together more than one year, being battle tested in the playoffs, and being excellent in all aspects of the game.
Team togetherness, the talks about trading Edwards when they should have done it already or not do it is problem #1.
Being a team that can't keep a roster together more than one year is problem #2, and you can forget about battle tested, except a few players here and there it doesn't apply.
Being excellent in all aspects of the game, ... well it is pretty much impossible when every off season is spent asembling a group that can take the field let alone play a cohesive game. That is non existent.
But that is not problem #3, problem #3 is the affinity for jets players, because It's just like the raiders, once a jet always a jet, and what is a jet. Well the team has a steady history of mediocracy, they are the definition of medium over a 25 yr period. There are stories like " no team that loses to the Jets has ever won a Superbowl" that have been passed on. But I'm pretty sure if you went to any teams fanbase, including the worst teams in the league and asked them do you want your team to sign 7 ex jets.
The concensous answer would be No.
The last 4 months has been another test in a long line of fan loyalty as the team makes head shaking moves day after day after day and gives no reason to think this years opening day will be any better than the last 3.

So the fact the Coach is on par with Jerry Glanvilles history and is throwing his weight around more than an elephant in ... (what's that word) . Is team biggest problem #3.

Olb
Rt (bc tuck should play rg)
ilb
rg
Nickel
TE
Slot

Right tackle and pass rush. Tucker will play right guard, so that is not a concern. But right tackle is. St. Claire is about the same as Shaffer, and he was, well, not very good. Pass rush should be improved with the acquisitions of Veikune, Coleman, Mosely, etc,. But it still is far from a good unit.

It's certainly:

Right Tackle - Tucker is now a Guard and a pretty good one. St. Clair couldn't carry Shaffers liederhosen. We're in BIG trouble here. Hopefully we'll see an unanticipated roster move to fix this before the season starts or we make a trade.

btw...is Jon Runyan out there?

Weakest right now would be db's and lb's. - Running back is sorta weak, Wr's are weak unless Braylon learns how to catch. Qb's might be weak.

I'll give you this - we have a good looking o-line and a good looking d-line.

I agree with you there in saying that the secondary is the weakest link...unless Mangini knows something about Elam that we don't....we are in big trouble there....personally, I think he knows that.....would explain the Ty Law business......Wright can't do it all.....

I think our secondary is fine. Elam and Pool will be a better combo than Pool and Jones. Wright and McDonald are more than capable, and we have multiple nickel back options.

(1) OLB
(2) QB
(3) Safety
(4) WR

I think OLB is obvious, but QB may suprise some people. Some may call it a strength because we have two potential starters. We could also have two potential career back-ups. Unfortunately, we do not have enough evidence to say either one can make it and be a playoff QB, let alone a winning playoff QB. Since it is also the most important position on the team, it supercedes almost everything else.

lb's all.....
right tackle
strong safety depth

Two Words:

Pass Rush

Kicker.

Phil Dawson can't get his kickoffs into the endzone and has a weak leg.


Kidding! Kidding guys, kidding.

IMO, in order

OLB
CB depth
RT


We need a pass rush. Wimbley must show us something more, and the jury is out on Hall. Coming from such a tiny school and transitioning from a DE, he showed us he has potential. But that doesn't mean he's going to make a difference.

Wright and BMac are ok in my opinion. Ivy isn't too bad, but definitely isn't great. I hate Poteat. And we have no idea what 2 sixth round corners can contribute, if anything at all.

I've never personally seen St. Clair play without knowingly watching him. Tucker at this point is a better RG than a RT, so I'm a little worried about the pass rush coming from that side.

Quote:

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I've never personally seen St. Clair play without knowingly watching him. Tucker at this point is a better RG than a RT, so I'm a little worried about the pass rush coming from that side.

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I'm with you, the right side of the line makes me nervous. With a rotation of Tucker (unreliable at this point), and two guys i've never heard of named Pork Chop and St. Clair.

While I have nothing to base this off of by knowing the guys, I bet whoever this Pork Chop is will suck like so many of the RGs we have gotten before him. And I bet this St. Clair guy won't be any good at RT either. They will be as effective as Hadnot, Cosey Coleman, Kelvin Garmon, Seth McKinney (who I prefer over both of those guys), etc.

A RT is definitely on our list of needs, I forget sometimes that Schaffer is gone..........did we get anything for him?

I'm worried about the defense. When teams had to score on us last year, they did and easily (for example, see Denver game).

I think some people expect Rob Ryan to come in here and work miracles like his brother did in Baltimore. Unfortunately, the Ravens D (just like the Steelers D) just has superior talent.

Rex Ryan parlayed unbelievable talent on the Ravens D into a head coaching job, just like Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan did before him, and Greg Mattison very well may in the future.

I hate to come off as a downer but I just think it's reality. How many guys on our D would an NFL offensive coordinator legitimately have to game plan around-- Rogers and perhaps DQ?

Another way to look at it is this.. would any of our players be clear upgrades (or even starters) on either the Steelers or Ravens D? What about vise versa?

Crennel did wonders in NE with superior talent (3 stud first rounders on the D-line, for starters) and couldn't do jack here.

I'd have to agree the linebacker and RG/RT positions are big questions.
The QB position would count in my opinion as well. Not necessarily due to a lack of talent per se' but more a lack of clarity. It's hard enough installing a new offense without the added confusion of a QB derby.
Perhaps one or two of the LB pickups will step up. I have my fingers crossed Beau Bell might be turned into a mad dog ILB. Hey if you're going to wish, you might as well wish big right?

Nothing in return for Shaffer. He wouldn't restructure so we released him.

IMHO, our biggest concerns are:

OLB
Right side of OL

Just typing because I do not know the raft of new faces. Right tackle is huge, and durability at RG is suspect.
The defensive backfield, esp. corners. The anemic output of dropsy and company at wideout is horrible (and I believe that opinion or concern is shared by the herd of bodies we have and thru draft to address it). I really feel less than good about the quebee situation as well; one or more should go to kill the controversy and trade for some help in other positions. Part of the weakness is also the lack of veteran QB to bring them along and shepherd them on the field during games and film crushing. Blind leading the blind for too long. Depth is nice but is in the backseat to performance and achievement IMO. If you admit there will be learning curves after learning curves this year for the QBs, then everything you do to diminish those get us closer to wins. They touch it every O down, and along with the center are vital to scoring.

I would have thought DV would be placed at the SOLB position not weak and eventually move in for Bowens sometime in the season, possibly even by the start of the season pending how fast he develops.

I thought they might move Hall over to the WOLB side and be Wimbley's back up. He did line up there on occasion last season. (not often)

But OLB is the big question mark cause Bowens is ok for some reps but not an impact player. DV and Hall are both young and learning, who knows how they will progress by the start of the season. We view them as what they are...a raw prospect and a rookie. Both ??? relative unknowns. And Wimbley - much promise but has turned out as an underachiever. Will he prosper with the new Staff?

The depth on the Right side of the OL is a big ???
I think the combo of Womack n Tucker or Tucker and St Clair - will be solid (feel more secure with the Womack RG n Tucker RT situation) but if Tucker cannot give us a full season we will be hurting. Also I keep seeing in print about Womack being a RT candidate...that might be interesting...Tucker at RG and Womack at RT???

Most other positions we got pretty good depth.

JMHO

I would say, for me, no doubt.

Right side of the o-line, Linebackers (Inside and out)*, and d-line.

If we had studs in those positions, we'd be talking. This would be a very good team.

*We have guys that could be really good. We just don't know yet.

I personally think that we need to stop signing reciever depth and start signing defensive line depth(that isn't coming up on their 37th birthday).

I wouldn't make any type of depth chart right now..TC hasn't even opened yet..

But right now IMO the weaknesses are:
Offense-
OG
RT
WR is still uncertain but not the bottom of the dumps it was.

Defense- first I need to see who's starting at what position...
OLB-both sides
CB

I'd have to say:

OLB - can we generate enough of a pass rush so that our DBs don't have to cover a guy for eternity?

RT - can St.Clair handle the pass rushers to give Quinn or Anderson enough time?

RB - does Jamal have enough left in the tank to give us at least a solid year running the ball?

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A RT is definitely on our list of needs, I forget sometimes that Schaffer is gone..........did we get anything for him?

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Nope, just released him.

If Ryan Tucker is healthy, right guard can be one of our biggest strengths.

Linebacker is clearly the weakest part of the team. No pass rush, no head hunters, the only guy who might be a difference maker is D'Qwell, and he's limited due to his size/strength. The plan appears to be D'Qwell/Veinuke at the ILB spots for the future, so there is actually some promise there...but outside we have absolutely nothing at LOLB and then Wimbley at ROLB who was truly a one year wonder, and is still a one trick pony.

Next offseason we gotta bring in some dynamite at OLB to infuse a pass rush.

i know he hasn't taken a snap in the pros....

But Veikune is a head hunter....

Linebacker

DQ and Wembly are starters. Where the other 2 come from who knows.

The Browns have been terrible against the run and can't pressure the QB. They did not significantly address the situation with free agency or the draft. Until it can be demonstrated that they have improved, concern will remain.

if you look at the roster, currently there are:

15 linebackers, 13 offensive linemen and 16 defensive backs.

There are alot of UDFA's and young UDFA vets i.e. practice squad dwellers from ours and other teams practice squad getting a try out.

Who knows? Maybe the pieces are in place and the cream will rise to the top.Maybe we get lucky with an UDFA or two. Right about now we could use some good luck.....

"The plan appears to be D'Qwell/Veinuke at the ILB spots for the future, so there is actually some promise there.."

I wouldn't read into the Rookie Camp too much...He first was OLB and then switched to ILB. In his presser he stated only the ILB term regarding DV...but I think its an Assumption that is where our future plans are for him.

It could very well be. But remember Mangini's camp is an School to the extreme and what he apparently likes to do in progressing with a College DE to LB is get him furthest away from that DE position and have him learn the ILB position. Total different mental concept and understanding. Of course with the Intelligent crew he'd love to have as many parts interchangeable as possible. This way a team can cope with injuries. Also if we get a stud OLB in a future draft it won't be overkill DV could indeed step inside???

But I think Mangini n Staff do this so that as a rookie especially a Hands down DE converting to OLB can Understand the LB mindset and team discipline with each other...Communication...Trust.

He also stated this better with the DBs Corners and Safeties. He'll have Carey playing Safety as well as Corner and stated he will have them adept at all four positions. To understand their primary position better but also to improve on In Season adjustments due to injuries.

I just think its more the way Mangini is thorough in the way he teaches.

JMHO

I agree Eo.

Mangini and crew may have an idea where they would like a guy to play, but at this point they know these guy will evolve in to something, but they just don't know for sure.

I find it refreshing the staff is flexible enough and smart enough to know they can't totally guide the process. They are going to have to do some following and see where the process leads.

About the Right side of the offensive line. Womack, apparently was a signing overshadowed to replace Schaefer, the only problem is he has a history of after a year of starts, another year of not starting, and repeat. What can you make of that.
St Clair has more games played than games started, by like 40 so that doesn't show well for him.
Tucker is coming off a year late in his career when He was healthy for one start, halfway through the schedule and got injured during that start for the rest of the season, so anyone counting on him, keep that in mind.

Seriously, If you go by games started, as being a sign of ability to get the job done, unfortunately Hank Fraley, who the #1 pick evidently was made in hopes to replace him, is the Senior member and most experienced to move over to guard or tackle.

... Remember how Fraley joined the team, when Bentley never played a snap, and IN LATE AUGUST the Browns grasped straws for 3 or 4 centers after having drafted Jeff Faine, and Melvin Fowler, in the three years earlier.
That is how he joined the team, and he is the most experienced by starting percentage vs non starting percentage of the games hes played of the 4 prospects at the right side of the line. I"m not including Tucker, and though I"m still hopeful Sowells could be an answer, he's played once in 3 seasons.

So there is ST, Clair, and Womack, and Fraley and Hadnut, and Sowells and Tucker, and perhaps Mack playing guard not center, to decide the right side of the offensive line.
I'd like to see them sign Levi Jones who would probably start, and let all the ????? be fighting for back up roles not starting roles that
What dya know get the offense killed like the last two home games vs pitt.

About Mangini, We've seen this before, the Jets joining the team, Butch Davis did it with Miami University players yet fewer in numbers, and that worked out not so well.

until robo and massaquoi prove themselves, it's the wide receiver core.

The problem Botch had was he thought too highly of his own evaluations and disregarded his scouts..
As far as the college players he brought in..he overvalued speed and other physical traits and disregarded if these were actually football players..plus he hardly brought in the best of his Hurricanes..he targeted players his team played against..

The whole right side of the "O" is weak. The fullback position is weak. The WR corps are weak, but has potential. The OLB corps are weak but has potential. The QB position is weak but has potential in one player.

Mangini needs to coach the hell out of the potential here, or we'll be having a long season, again.




Can't really see much of a difference between Butch and Mangini to date.....Butch made the playoffs once and Mangini has made the playoffs once. FYI Butch went deeper into the playoffs then Mangini.

But it's good to know with Mangini, camp cupcake is dead! ....I Hope.