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All these arguments are so right on! How could this guy think he's above the military? I mean, doesn't he understand that there are RULES?! He SIGNED UP for it!!!
It's like freaking Rosa Parks. I mean, she knew when she got on that bus that there was a Montgomery city ordinance segregating passengers by race. Just move to the back, or don't ride! You're not special. You're just like everyone else, don't think that your "personal cause" it more important than CITY LAW. You break the law, expect to pay the consequences. Don't cry about being hauled off to jail. I have no sympathy, and I can't believe that anyone would be surprised by the consequences.
(/sarcasm over)
In all seriousness, to all of you saying that the don't ask don't tell policy is irrelevant here and is another debate... seriously. WAKE UP. Stop making the same mistakes that people made 50 years ago. Christ.
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If someone thinks it is wrong to be homosexual, they are wrong automatically. Who made those rules.
I don't know what to tell you, outside of the fact that we're evolving as a nation and rejecting that point of view. We've rejected the notion that blacks are inferior, and we've done the same with women. It's now time to break out of our stupidity regarding homosexuals.
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The problem I see, is people are being forced to accept it.
No one is forcing anyone to accept it.
Those who do not accept it, however, must accept that their view is rapidly declining into the minority.
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It's like freaking Rosa Parks.
I didn't know Rosa Parks enlisted into being African-American.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Ahhhhhhhhh ... your so cute ...  Bro ... he made a calculated move ... THERE IS NO DOUBT .,.. NONE .. what this guy did when he "came out" would be akin to your supposed ex ranger officer taking the cash from one of every 4 or 5 drinks he poors ... getting caught ... and then being suprised he got FIRED FOR IT instead of U guys making an excpetion for him in this case .... so its not like it takes any sort of genius to figure out .. the DUMBEST ASS GRUNT knows this one ..... just like your dumbest bartender knows if he gets caught stealing hes gonzo ... and bro .. he graduated from West Point .. NO DUMMIES get through there ... like I said the dumbest ass grunt knows this one .. so the fact he graduated from West Point is OVERKILL ... he can act however he wants ... HE KNEW THE CONSEQUENCES GOING IN ... it really is that simple in this case .. the military unlike civilian life actually has rules for a reason ... and if u break them .. no matter what your personal views are ... the penalty is well spelled out and U will suffer that penalty .. not sure if u know this .. but the word DISCILPLINE in the military .. actually means sumptin and is not just sumptin to be questioned or toyed with ... If U do A ... B is sure to follow .. I will be interested to see what Obama says this week and if his stance changes on what happend in this case over the course of the week ... when it comes to military things he has changed his views quite a bit on our overseas deployment since he has become the president and is now actually in charge of protecting us as compared to what he was saying publically during the campaign ..... He may or may not be beggining to waffle on the don't ask/ don't tell stance .. I doubt it but his first response was very docile lik ehe had to think about it some more .. the reasons why this policy are in affect have not really been brought out yet in this thread ... I am not sure if I agree with the reasons that policy is really in affect ... but I can tell U that no one in this thread has hit on them yet .. well you've touched on the fact its bigotry .. but no one has really got down to the actuall cause/affect reasons .. I will say this .. there are some cases and instances when an individuals rights are over shadowed by the groups rights and the individuals rights should not be the be all/end all deciding factor in all situations .. I am not sure if that applies here .. but it is true in some circumstances ...
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First, let me start off by saying that I have zero problem with homosexuals. I used to feel differently towards them, growing up in a small community with rather closed minds, but my cousin came out of the closet several years ago. At first it was a little awkward, but I soon realized that she was exactly the same as she was before. I'm truly glad that she came out, otherwise I may have went through life as a homophobe. More likely I would have seen the light as I got away from my community, but it happened much sooner this way.
With that said, I do feel that people have the rights to oppose it. It's called freedom of speech. Violence against gays is obviously unacceptable, but people are allowed to feel how they feel. It's not necessarily right, but it's within their rights.
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Ahhhhhhhhh ... your so cute ...
That's twice now in this thread. I'm sensing that there's some homo-eroticism going on here with you 
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he can act however he wants ... HE KNEW THE CONSEQUENCES GOING IN ... it really is that simple in this case .. the military unlike civilian life actually has rules for a reason ... and if u break them .. no matter what your personal views are ... the penalty is well spelled out and U will suffer that penalty ..
And yet, as I've said before, IMHO, based on how I'm reading his reactions, he wasn't prepared for what's happened.
So it comes back to an earlier statement: Either he really didn't think this through, or he isn't as smart as you believe him to be.
Based on what I'm reading here, I think people understand that what he did he did in vain. He wants to be openly gay. Ok, no problem. Unfortunately, he isn't happy with the outcome. Uh-oh, BIG problem. Deal with it.
He's getting his fifteen minutes of fame. It's too damned bad he's hurting our country by doing it, and in the end, his "sacrifice" won't mean a thing. Either Obama meant what he said, or he didn't. In either case, this guy getting poop-canned and getting bent out of shape isn't going to effect change one iota.
You can blue-in-the-face but it's not going to pursuade me that he hasn't suddenly found himself in over his head and reacting as such.
And stop hitting on me 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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IMHO, based on how I'm reading his reactions, he wasn't prepared for what's happened.
Well bro ... if u really believe that he was not prepared for the only viable outcome of his actions ... then U must believe based on his reaction that OJ truely was stunned and shocked in the Chicago hotel room when he found out that Ron and Nicole had beem murdered ...
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I have nothing against gay men and women. Never have. But there are places that even I don't want to be around a gay man. Men's locker room, berthing compartment, open shower/head area where space is at a premium and there generally isn't a lot of space.
I agree completely. The thing is I don't want to be in these places with females either. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I don't want to be in any place like these that are coed. I guess I consider gay men as coed when it comes to this.
The argument about gays and blacks are somewhat valid imo. The disruption to overall readiness is the only reason I can object to any policy. Sometimes (like when it came to integration) things have to change regardless of any argument.
Now gays serving openly? We can't let the idea of fear of some snipes beating on gays being the reason to disallow them from service. Now if we had openly gay men having sex around the tight quarters on a ship then that would be a real problem. The thing is there are rules in the service that makes this a crime.
I still think women serving with men on ships is the biggest threat to security. How many women still become pregnant while serving on cruises? That really does under mind ship readiness.
I guess my convoluted opinion is I'm fine with gays in the Navy. Just have them berth with the women.
#gmstrong
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Now if we had openly gay men having sex around the tight quarters on a ship then that would be a real problem.
Isn't that a rule with hetrosexuals also ?
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I guess my convoluted opinion is I'm fine with gays in the Navy. Just have them berth with the women.
 I am not laughing with you .
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Isn't that a rule with hetrosexuals also ?
Yes it is. That's more of a problem because women get pregnant. I think I covered that.
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I am not laughing with you .
I don't blame you. Most people don't think I make much sense. Most people would probably love to shower with women. I'm just kinda shy.
#gmstrong
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In either case, this guy getting poop-canned and getting bent out of shape isn't going to effect change one iota.
I disagree... I'm sorry this guy chose the path that he did and sacrificed his career and I'm sorry that it appears that the US military lost a fine solider... but each and every time this happens, it will get us just a bit closer to changing the policy, which is what many seem to want...
yebat' Putin
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I highly doubt that it gets them any closer to changes in the policy.......
Until the majority of those serving are okay with it then it will continue to present problems if it ever occurs. We are quite a way from that time as of yet....a very long way.
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I don't know how far away we are, but as brass retires and new brass born of a different generation replaces them, the shift will begin to occur. In the end, congress and the White house will do what the joint chiefs tells them to do... none of them want to be viewed as not supporting the military brass's wishes.
yebat' Putin
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It's not about the brass it is about those who must fight and live together underneath the auspice of the policy.....
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We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Peen, two quick questions for you:
1) How are women being accepted in the military today?
2) How are ethnics being treated as well?
Both of these were thought as big no-no's and yet they have both been accepted over the years. How can you be so sure that they wouldn't mesh right in either?
It's no big secret anyways over in Iraq. I've known several people who have gone over and they mentioned that they knew mostly who was and was not gay. They just couldn't come out and say it to the masses but their friends knew about it and they all had the same agreement....so what? All anyone cared about over there was staying alive, and in order to do that, you had to stay united. One of my friends in fact went into Iraq as a big time homophobe and came out with a new found respect after meeting the people that he met.
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It's not about the brass it is about those who must fight and live together underneath the auspice of the policy.....
I was referring to what it is going to take to get the policy changed.. and that will be an eventual changeover in the people in charge.. it's just going to take time.
yebat' Putin
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He may or may not be beggining to waffle on the don't ask/ don't tell stance ..
I'm thinking it will take some more guys like this cat getting vocal before Obama makes any big shift. I know there was one other already...a woman, I believe, who Obama gave a hand-written response.
Realistically...it's a second-term issue for B.O.
Besides the obvious agenda of equal rights...the key to this should be how many Arabic speakers we're expelling over this nonsense. We're shockingly short on those fluent in the language, and we're shooting ourselves in the foot by dismissing them.
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I have nothing against gay men and women. Never have. But there are places that even I don't want to be around a gay man. Men's locker room, berthing compartment, open shower/head area where space is at a premium and there generally isn't a lot of space.
Why not...do they all want you or something? This statement reminds me of how other women react when I tell them I'm gay...it goes something like this...
Me: Btw, I'm gay.
Her: Just don't hit on me, okay?
Me: Don't worry, I'm not interested in you.
Her: What? (looking shocked) You don't find me attractive? Why not?
I mean, really, just because a person is gay does NOT mean they are attracted to every member of the same sex. Just like straight folks...you don't want EVERY member of the opposite sex, do you? 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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you don't want EVERY member of the opposite sex, do you?
Heck no. I'm actually insanely picky. I'm attracted to maybe one of five girls at school.
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One in five? That sounds like a bunch to me. Guess things change as we get older...I forget what I was like back then. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Actually, it probably is high. There are about 35 girls in my grade, and I'm probably attracted to maybe 5 of them, max.
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Those who do not accept it, however, must accept that their view is rapidly declining into the minority.
That's not true, you are repeating the mantra. The majority in actuality, not as being reported by the left wing media, is still on the other side. You can believe whhat you want, but that fact is not true.
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No one is forcing anyone to accept it.
So labeling someone who doesn't accept it as a "homophobe" isn't part of forcing? Portraying it as common as heterosexual sex on TV and in films, when it envolves a less than 10% of the population isn't trying to forcing it to be seen as "normal" behaviour. Try again, that's just absurd.
The majority does not accept as normal behaviour, and if you believe that you are being fooled. Actually, you are succcmbing to the push to amke people believe what is not actually true.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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I have nothing against gay men and women. Never have. But there are places that even I don't want to be around a gay man. Men's locker room, berthing compartment, open shower/head area where space is at a premium and there generally isn't a lot of space.
Why not...do they all want you or something? This statement reminds me of how other women react when I tell them I'm gay...it goes something like this...
Me: Btw, I'm gay.
Her: Just don't hit on me, okay?
Me: Don't worry, I'm not interested in you.
Her: What? (looking shocked) You don't find me attractive? Why not?
I mean, really, just because a person is gay does NOT mean they are attracted to every member of the same sex. Just like straight folks...you don't want EVERY member of the opposite sex, do you?
I can't speak for him but I feel the same way as him. It's not whether or not they think I'm attractive or they want me. I have never felt comfortable showering with anyone to begin with and having to shower with anyone who may possibly be attracted to me makes me very uncomfortable. That would include women as well.
BTW how would you know if gay me are attracted to me or not? Why would you assume all of them wouldn't be? I mean, I haven't met a woman yet that hasn't wanted me, so why would men be any different? Ammo
#gmstrong
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BTW how would you know if gay me are attracted to me or not? Why would you assume all of them wouldn't be? I mean, I haven't met a woman yet that hasn't wanted me, so why would men be any different? Ammo
Uhhh...what???
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Just like straight folks...you don't want EVERY member of the opposite sex, do you?
Only the ones between 18 and 80  We are talking about guys here Michelle, sometimes all the lady needs is a pulse. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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It's funny. I have an aunt (but she's only a couple years older than I am) who's a lesbian. She likes her women girly-girls, you know... looking & acting like feminine women. I joke around with her and tell her we have similar tastes in broads.  But my point is, she's a one-woman type of woman... but she says young gay guys (generally speaking) who aren't in a serious couple thing can be very promiscuous. You know how straight guys are when they're young and single... well imagine two gay guys out for casual meaningless sex. Hello, Perez Hilton!!!!
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Everybody is different. I know both men and woman straight and gay who either fool around every chance they get, or don't even look much. Some who can't pass a chance at something new, and some who would cut off their left arm rather than cheat if they are in a commited relationship. It makes no difference if somebody is straight or gay IMO, it only matters WHO they are. Heck I have been faithful for over 28 years (and plan on staying that way till death do us part) but I flirt, look, and drool 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I mean, really, just because a person is gay does NOT mean they are attracted to every member of the same sex. Just like straight folks...you don't want EVERY member of the opposite sex, do you?
The military doesn't allow good looking guys to shower with ugly women just because they probably won't be attracted to them....
yebat' Putin
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. Heck I have been faithful for over 28 years (and plan on staying that way till death do us part) but I flirt, look, and drool
Yeah that describes me, too, lol. Except not early as long as 28 years but you're way older than me.
I look and sometimes drool too, but essentially I'm a one-woman guy. Besides, why bother?... the odds of two women being attracted to me at the same time are astronomical.
gmstrong -----------------
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Eryze, when you get done arguing politics, perhaps you could finally answer the more important question. From what authority do you make the claim that homosexuality is immoral?
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It is a moral decision. Liberals use "fear" to justify their position. Since some people have a moral problem with homosexuality, they are portray as if something is wrong with them.
I'm not a Liberal but I do think fear plays a big role in people's feelings over this subject. I realize there are other components besides fear. I may not agree with pretty much anything you've said on this subject but I don't think there is something wrong with you or that you have some sort of "phobia"
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Homosexuality is not a "normal" behaviour. Sexual organs are for reproduction, it is society that portrays "sex" as entertainment, for lack of a better word.
Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time. Just because there are less homosexuals than there are heterosexuals does not necessarily mean they are not "normal" or somehow "not right". Homosexuality is also not based totally on sex and heterosexuals have sex all the time without it being about reproduction. I never get that argument.
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I have gay friends and don't have any problem with them, but I've even talked to them about it and even they feel it is not actually a normal condition. It is a choice for them, not a necessity.
I love the I have gay friends so I know all there is to know about the subject. There are MANY gay people who will tell you this was not a choice for them. And I have a hard time believing they see themselves as abnormal. LOL. Although, their friends and family may be the reason they've been made to feel that way. 
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When using the term "homophobic", I feel it is derogatory statement. Namecalling if you will. Just because someones upbringing or moral basis does not agree with you, you call them a name. What difference is that to someone calling a gay man a "fag? To me, they are just as demeaning.
Agreed.
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I find it funny how these "minority groups" can namecall and bash people who don't agree or even maybe understand them, but if they recieve the same treatment, it is "hate".
Agreed again.
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Would you look at that. I'm a synonym of gay
Synonyms:
1. gleeful, jovial, glad, joyous, happy, cheerful, sprightly, blithe, airy, light-hearted; vivacious, frolicsome, sportive, hilarious. Gay, jolly, joyful, merry describe a happy or light-hearted mood. Gay suggests a lightness of heart or liveliness of mood that is openly manifested: when hearts were young and gay. Jolly indicates a good-humored, natural, expansive gaiety of mood or disposition: a jolly crowd at a party. Joyful suggests gladness, happiness, rejoicing: joyful over the good news. Merry is often interchangeable with gay: a merry disposition; a merry party; it suggests, even more than the latter, convivial animated enjoyment. 2. brilliant.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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2. brilliant.
Um.....
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Mom said I was
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Heck I have been faithful for over 28 years (and plan on staying that way till death do us part) but I flirt, look, and drool
Is ok to order an appetizer though?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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As long as you don't touch it
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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That's not true, you are repeating the mantra. The majority in actuality, not as being reported by the left wing media, is still on the other side. You can believe whhat you want, but that fact is not true.
The majority is dwindling. More and more Americans are realizing that the bias against homosexuality was one based in bigotry and ignorance.
More and more states will continue to allow it, and soon we will look upon the anti-gay movement the same way we looked at our actions and attitudes involving blacks.
It will take awhile for the enlightenment, but it's happening slowly.
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That's not true, you are repeating the mantra. The majority in actuality, not as being reported by the left wing media, is still on the other side. You can believe whhat you want, but that fact is not true.
The majority is dwindling. More and more Americans are realizing that the bias against homosexuality was one based in bigotry and ignorance.
More and more states will continue to allow it, and soon we will look upon the anti-gay movement the same way we looked at our actions and attitudes involving blacks.
It will take awhile for the enlightenment, but it's happening slowly.
I think Phil's right on.
I used to be prejudiced and bigoted, but I think a lot of that comes with the territory of growing up (you follow the crowd in school...it's just a given). As I've grown I've learned that if it's not my business then I really shouldn't care. What people do in their own homes is none of my business. Who am I to judge? They could judge the women I talk to/date just as easily.
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(/sarcasm continued)
Yeah, what is it with these folks who go to war for us and then when they come back, begin acting like they don't belong in the back of the bus?
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