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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Private-sector-signs-on-for-cnnm-15194800.htmlPresident Obama will announce Monday that he has secured the commitment of several industry groups to do their part to rein in the growth in health care costs. This pledge from the private sector could reduce the growth in health care spending by 1.5 percentage points a year, for a savings of $2 trillion over 10 years, a letter from the groups will promise, according to a senior administration official. Overall, it could amount to a 20% reduction in the growth of health care spending. Six trade associations representing unions, hospitals, insurers and the drug industry have signed on to the commitment. However, the savings depend in part on Congress passing health care reform this year. And it was not clear how these savings would be accomplished. An official pointed to possible savings from "administrative simplification," smarter care coordination, and changing incentives so providers are rewarded for providing "better" care, as opposed to "more" care. Hospitals are now "financially penalized for providing more efficient care by current law," the official said. The official also said savings could come from the bundling of payments, in which hospitals, doctors, insurers and other health care companies would work together to bill one fee for one treatment. The Obama administration is positioning health care reform as critical for getting the deficit under control; for freeing up resources for other initiatives, such as education; and for reducing the burden on American families. Under the plan to be announced Monday, in five years, the average family of four could be saving $2,500 in health care costs annually, the official said. Given the failed health care reform efforts of the 1990s, the White House's Monday press conference aims to get ahead of potential detractors. "It is a recognition that the fictional television couple, Harry and Louise, who became the iconic faces of those who opposed health care reform in the '90s, desperately need health care reform in 2009. And so does America," Obama is expected to say Monday, according to excerpts of prepared remarks. One official described the participation of the private sector as a "game changer" in the discussion of health care reform. "It makes it even clearer that it's going to happen this year in Congress." A spokesman for AARP responded to news of Monday's planned announcement by saying, "AARP believes the agreement of providers to slow the skyrocketing cost of health care is critical for the health reform we are all working toward. "Reducing the skyrocketing cost of health care is the only way to create a health care system that works for all Americans; after all, what good is access to a system that we can't afford?" said the spokesman, AARP Director of Public Policy John Rother. -- CNN's Kate Bolduan contributed to this report. A couple of good ideas. I'm definately all for paying less for health care, but not having "free" health care.
Go Irish!
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1st String
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Now this doesn't sound bad at all. I'd much rather see a reform of the current practices and policies versus the "free" national health care system that has been speculated for some time now.
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Well all's fine but my insurer sent me a letter 2 wks ago and my insurance is going up $80.00 in Sept. so it looks like they'll get their raise in now before anything in Washington happens..
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Wanna bet that they overseas tax loophole business gets shelved now ? A little tit for tat perhaps ?
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The public has to buy in, and i doubt they will.
People have to stop going to emergency rooms for primary care, and everybody needs to be required to pay something.
A big part of the costs you and I see are associated with the millions and millions of dollars hospitals have to render and write off as uncompensated care.
Trust me....it gets paid for...by you and me in the way of higher health costs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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that's why I still think public free hospitals should be built. New doctors and nurses spend 3-5 years training there before being licensed to hire onto a private/corporate hospital.
The private/corporate hospitals have the right to refuse treatment to non-trauma patients.
let the people who can't or won't pay for the service, sit in lines, while giving those that have coverage or the money to pay for the services the ability to get the treatment they need in a timely manner.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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People have to stop going to emergency rooms for primary care, and everybody needs to be required to pay something.
A big part of the costs you and I see are associated with the millions and millions of dollars hospitals have to render and write off as uncompensated care.
Trust me....it gets paid for...by you and me in the way of higher health costs.
and that right there is the jist of the ruse ... we due have a "national" health care program ... folks that can't afford traditional health care and the cost associated with it .. they just use the ER room like we use our primary physicans ....
and I do not blame them ... its there only choice .... just pointing out that we all ready have a 'default" national health care system ..
and the HC industry deciding to cut 1.5% in rising costs is like putting a finger in the damm .. I'll use myself .. 2 years ago my HC cost me $280/month ... this year its costing me $390/month for the same exact plan ..... thats just shy of a 40% increase in 2 years ... so thats 20% a year ... so instead of my rates being raised 20% the health care industry is now sayng they will reduce it by 1.5% witch means it would only go up 18.% .. LUCKY ME ... 
and actually reading it .. it says there going to cut spending ... wonder what that ACTUALLY means ...
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and actually reading it .. it says there going to cut spending ... wonder what that ACTUALLY means ...
It means no more steak sandwich day in the cafeteria. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Pelosi: House taking up health care before recess WASHINGTON – House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday that her chamber would have a sweeping health care bill on the floor by the end of July, an announcement that President Barack Obama hailed. "That's the kind of urgency and determination that we need to achieve what I believe will be historic legislation," the president said at the White House, standing on the south driveway with Pelosi and Democratic leaders of the relevant House committees. "Our health care system is broken," Obama said. "We are not going to rest until we've delivered the kind of health care reform that's going to bring down costs for families, improve quality, affordability, accessibility for all Americans." Pelosi, D-Calif., and other House Democrats had met with Obama and Vice President Joe Biden in the Oval Office just before going outside to make their announcement. No Republicans were present, and neither were any senators. "We promised him that we will have this important legislation on the floor of the House before the August break," Pelosi announced. "Our goal is to have a healthier America." Neither the speaker nor the president offered details of how the legislation will look, the subject of ongoing debate on Capitol Hill. The White House is remaining mostly quiet as proposals emerge for discussion among lawmakers, preferring to let Congress come up with a plan and engage more on the specifics later on. Obama's plan to provide coverage to some 50 million uninsured Americans is the cornerstone of his promise to enact a larger overhaul of the health care system. Independent experts put the costs at about $1.5 trillion over 10 years. But turning that vision into reality remains the biggest challenge for the president and his backers, because hard cash — not just ideas — is required to cover upfront costs of expanding coverage. The final financing package is likely to include a mix of tax increases and spending cuts in federal health programs. Among the possibilities are tax increases on alcoholic beverages, tobacco products and sugary soft drinks, and restrictions on other health care-related tax breaks, such as flexible spending accounts. Senators also are considering limiting — but not eliminating — the tax-free status of employer-provided health benefits. Employer-provided health insurance technically is considered part of workers' compensation, but unlike wages, it is not taxed. The forgone revenue to the federal government amounts to about $250 billion a year. So even if they're lucky enough to avoid going to the doctor or hospital, and never use their job-based health insurance, some Americans may find themselves paying taxes on at least part of its value. Some taxes don't seem to be on the table, such as a federal sales levy to pay for health care or a new payroll tax. On the question of taxing health benefits, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., who chaired a round table of senators on Tuesday, is staking out a position that could put him at odds with Obama. The president adamantly opposed such taxes during the campaign, arguing they would undermine job-based coverage. Obama's aides now say he's open to suggestions from Congress, even if he criticized Republican presidential rival John McCain for proposing a sweeping version of the same basic idea. Baucus said he wants to modify the tax break, not abolish it. "We are not going to repeal it," he said. Baucus suggested that the benefit could be limited by taxing health insurance provided to high-income individuals, although he did not specify at what income levels. He also said that plans offering rich benefits — for example, no co-payments or deductibles — might be taxed once their value exceeded a yet-to-be-determined threshold. Many experts say Congress won't be able to come up with the kind of money needed to provide coverage for all unless limitations on the health care tax break are part of the mix. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_overhaul
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The final financing package is likely to include a mix of tax increases and spending cuts in federal health programs. Among the possibilities are tax increases on alcoholic beverages, tobacco products and sugary soft drinks, and restrictions on other health care-related tax breaks, such as flexible spending accounts.
On an unrelated note the sugar industry took at beating today as their stocks began to plummet. Spin off industry news has Kellogg's speculating laying off Tony the Tiger, Snap, Crackle and Pop as early as June.
#GMSTRONG
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Everyone has their own take on what is best. Me I want national health care, and this is why.
I have my own small business, I make a good living, but I am far from rich. I wanted to buy health care coverage for myself and my wife, after my wife quit her job to have our 2 little girls, and be a stay at home mom. I couldn't find health coverage at any price, due to the fact that my wife has diabetes. I couldn't believe it, my wife manages her diabetes with her diet, and there is a test she has every 3 months to find out how her blood sugars are. But we couldn't get coverage. Oh we could pay the insurance company like 12,000 per year, but the insurance didn't cover anything. Dr. you pay, hospital you pay up to 7,500 and then the insurance kicks in. So we were left with no choice, we had to take cobra, and when that runs out we go into a state run pool that assigns us to an insurer, and bet we can't afford it, or it doesn't really cover us.
The insurance industry and the politicians have painted this picture for us that national health care is a bad thing. I wonder why, when they pad their pockets with money they siphon off the health care benefits we don't enjoy. Same goes for the politicians they take the insurance industries money and refuse to enact meaningful legislation to fix this problem once and for all.
We pay weather we want to or not for the uninsured when they go to the ER for their care. Wouldn't it be better if they went to a Dr, instead? Isn't that cheaper then flipping the bill for them going to the ER? Get real, it's time to do the right thing make health care a right, not what it has become a "privilege". A privilege fewer and fewer of us can afford.
I believe certain things. #1 Everyone should have a safe clean dry warm place to sleep at night. #2 Everyone should have enough food to sustain themselves. #3 NOBODY should have to suffer because then can't afford health care, or have no means by which to pay for it.
It's basic stuff actually, and to have to continue to have this conversation is ridiculous. This has been going on now for 30 years, it's time to end it once and for all. Lets take care of ourselves and our neighbors. Lets make sure we can "ALL" get proper care when we need it regardless of our financial status. To me it is a basic right, a right that is being denied us because of the insurance industry and a political system that feeds on our lost health care dollars.
If Obama ends this travesty like I think he will, then he will have done this country and it's citizens a great and lasting service.
MHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Exactly Diam....let's say conservatively that costs are rising at 10% a year and they pledge to decrease the GROWTH in health care spending by 1.5 percentage points a year that's still an increase of either 8.5% or 9.8% depending on how you read it. If that savings is $2 trillion over 10 years then hold on to your hats.... That means you'll be paying at least $11 trillion more in health care over the next decade. This type of math reminds me of two things: 1. Obama says he's going to cut spending 50% by 2012. But that number is factored off an increase initially of over 400% so that by 2012 that spending will actually be double 2008 hahaha. 2. When my wife tells me she's saving tons of money after going to the Saks Fifth Avenue Outlet Store. Yeah thanks for that. 
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I believe certain things. #1 Everyone should have a safe clean dry warm place to sleep at night. #2 Everyone should have enough food to sustain themselves. #3 NOBODY should have to suffer because then can't afford health care, or have no means by which to pay for it.
I agree 100% .... but heres where we disagree .... and I do not mean to sound harsh ... but I'm gonna come across that way ... i think U mean well and I apologize in advance .. i just do not know of a "gentle" way to say this ..
I do not believe for a second its MY JOB to provide it to EVERYONE ... I believe in PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY ... not in the Gov't playing Robin Hood ...
sorry .. but it should not be up to me to make sure that U or anyone else has health care .. THATS YOUR JOB ... not mine or the govt's ...
and dude .. why u believe the gov't can do this is BEYOND ME ... they are currently in control of medicare .... and thats GONNA BE BROKE IN 8 YEARS ... so currently there in charge of medical for A PORTION OF THE SENIORS in the country .. AND THEY CAN'T DO THAT RIGHT .. yet were going to put them in charge of EVERYONE and there gonna do it better .. how does that work ...
that would ba akin to when your children are old enough to drive .. if they have a problem when they hit 20 in the church parking lot your solution is to take them right out to the expressway and have them go 70 ... what kind of logic is that???
also feel free to tell me ONE they've taken over from the privte sector and DONE IT WELL ...
I mean our SS and Education departments are doing just great in this country ...
GOV'T HAS FAILED AT EVERYTHING ... so why will they not fail at this ..
I mean I hear U .. If I thought they could DO IT RIGHT .. it would be a GREAT THING .. but they have DONE NOTHING RIGHT ... so why would we expect them to NAIL THIS ONE ...
and if u want to get at the root of spiraling HC costs .. go right here for the two biggest costs ....
start with the AMA ... they only alow X amount of new docs per year (they do this by limiting the number of med students each year) ... so that leads to a shortage of docs ... witch means HIGHER PRICES cause they can charge more ...
then go to mal Practice Insurance .. its OUT OF CONTROL ...
seemingly no one can do nuttin about those two things .. but letting the Gov't SWOOP IN AND SAVE THE DAY ONCE AGAIN is the answer .. PROBLEM IS ... they've yet to swoop in and save the day on ANYTHING ....
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GOV'T HAS FAILED AT EVERYTHING ... so why will they not fail at this ..
Because of this...
yebat' Putin
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I believe certain things. #1 Everyone should have a safe clean dry warm place to sleep at night. #2 Everyone should have enough food to sustain themselves. #3 NOBODY should have to suffer because then can't afford health care, or have no means by which to pay for it.
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I agree 100% .... but heres where we disagree .... and I do not mean to sound harsh ... but I'm gonna come across that way ... i think U mean well and I apologize in advance .. i just do not know of a "gentle" way to say this ..
Like I said they are my beliefs basic and simple. No need to say your sorry for what you believe.
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I do not believe for a second its MY JOB to provide it to EVERYONE ... I believe in PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY ... not in the Gov't playing Robin Hood ...
I suppose in a way thats what I want the government to do, but if you think it's about personnal accountablity I think your leaving out a lot that slaps that theory in the face. What about the guy that has a job, but no bennies? What about those like myself for instance that do want to pay, but can't afford or can't get decent coverage.
I pay so you know $1,105 per month to keep the coverage from my wifes job. Is that enough? whats enough? I don't think you have a clue when it comes to the cost. If you did you would begin to understand why this topic is and has been so hot.
A Guy that works and makes $20 per hour paying out 70, 80 dollars from his pay every week to maintain his coverage, and still if he goes to the Dr. or needs medication he pays out more. And year after year our bennies cover less and less cost.
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sorry .. but it should not be up to me to make sure that U or anyone else has health care .. THATS YOUR JOB ... not mine or the govt's ...
and dude .. why u believe the gov't can do this is BEYOND ME ... they are currently in control of medicare .... and thats GONNA BE BROKE IN 8 YEARS ... so currently there in charge of medical for A PORTION OF THE SENIORS in the country .. AND THEY CAN'T DO THAT RIGHT .. yet were going to put them in charge of EVERYONE and there gonna do it better .. how does that work ...
And the private sector is in charge of the banking industry, the auto industry, and a slew of other enterprises and guess what if the government doesn't ride in to the rescue we would watch as our entire economy including health care go down the tubes.
And if the private sector where doing a good enough job in the health care area by providing AFFORDABLE coverage there would be no talk of national health care.
let me say this too. I believe that health care is a right. It's not about being Robin Hood, it's about a basic belief that EVERYONE including those that are poor, rich, or in the middle should have decent health care coverage.
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that would ba akin to when your children are old enough to drive .. if they have a problem when they hit 20 in the church parking lot your solution is to take them right out to the expressway and have them go 70 ... what kind of logic is that???
also feel free to tell me ONE they've taken over from the privte sector and DONE IT WELL ...
Better yet tell me about how great the private sector is doing. Better yet tell me are you OK with providing health care via the ER?
It all adds up if you can do the math, our health care industry is failing us, we can turn a blind eye to our nieghbors and friends for as long as we continue to have coverage and they don't, but if you believe that but by the grace of God that could be me, and what if it was? Then your entire perspective changes.
What if you worked full time but had no bennies?
What if you couldn't afford to pay yourself and you lost your job?
And what if it was your KID or your wife or your Mom or Dad, or your brother or sister that was on the outside looking in?
And what if they Die because they don't have coverage? What then?
Do you cover that up by saying I don't want the government to play Robin Hood. Or do you cover it up with the Personnal responsiblity claim? I want to hear you tell someone that worked their ASS off all their life, that they have to take personnal responsiblity for their health care and sorry what you did wasn't enough so you will just have to suffer and die because you lack health care coverage. Because that is what is happening NOW TODAY. And ME I find that unacceptable.
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I mean our SS and Education departments are doing just great in this country ...
GOV'T HAS FAILED AT EVERYTHING ... so why will they not fail at this ..
I mean I hear U .. If I thought they could DO IT RIGHT .. it would be a GREAT THING .. but they have DONE NOTHING RIGHT ... so why would we expect them to NAIL THIS ONE ...
and if u want to get at the root of spiraling HC costs .. go right here for the two biggest costs ....
start with the AMA ... they only alow X amount of new docs per year (they do this by limiting the number of med students each year) ... so that leads to a shortage of docs ... witch means HIGHER PRICES cause they can charge more ...
then go to mal Practice Insurance .. its OUT OF CONTROL ...
seemingly no one can do nuttin about those two things .. but letting the Gov't SWOOP IN AND SAVE THE DAY ONCE AGAIN is the answer .. PROBLEM IS ... they've yet to swoop in and save the day on ANYTHING ....
I hear ya but like I said if the private sector was doing the job then we have nothing to debate.
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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And right on cue a really good article .... it says I'm completely wrong and more docs are not the answer ... I agree with alot of what this guy says .. and he obviously knows ALOT MORE ABOUT IT THAN ME ... but i believe we do need more docs ... but if he can get some of these VERY GOOD IDEAS put in place .. then we will not need near as many more docs ... http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/13/christensen.doctors/index.htmlCommentary: We don't need more doctorsStory Highlights Co-authors: Will the health reform plan truly break with the ways of the past? Some advocate need for more doctors, but that's not necessary, they say They say nurses can provide quality care at low cost in clinics They say that would free up doctors to do more complex work updated 9:12 a.m. EDT, Wed May 13, 2009Next Article in Politics » By Clayton Christensen, Jason Hwang and Vineeta Vijayaraghavan Special to CNN Editor's note: Clayton M. Christensen is the Robert and Jane Cizik Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School, co-founder of Innosight Institute, and the best-selling author of six books. Jason Hwang, M.D., M.B.A. is co-founder and executive director of healthcare at Innosight Institute. They are co-authors of "The Innovator's Prescription: A Disruptive Solution for Health Care" (McGraw-Hill, January 2009). Vineeta Vijayaraghavan, M.B.A. is a Research Fellow at Innosight Institute. Clayton Christensen and his co-authors say it's not clear the health reform plan will be innovative. 1 of 3 (CNN) -- Vowing not to "continue down the same dangerous road" of rising health care costs, President Obama announced on Monday a coalition for reform that included some of health care's most powerful stakeholders. But what is not yet clear is whether this latest attempt to fix the health care system will in fact introduce fundamental change, or simply proceed down another well-trodden road that delivers more of the same. For example, the urgent need for more doctors, particularly primary care providers, has been raised by the president and other administration officials. The Association of American Medical Colleges advocates a 30 percent increase in medical school enrollment to produce 5,000 more doctors a year, and one provision in the White House plan would redistribute payments from specialists to primary care doctors to improve pay equity. On the surface, these seem to be logical steps to circumvent a system of "coverage without care," in which access to health insurance becomes meaningless without comparable access to health care providers. However, we submit that these actions lead us in the wrong direction, and there is, in fact, no doctor shortage -- as long as we accept the fact that health care can work differently, and better than, the current system. There IS a shortage of health care services being provided, but many of them are not best offered by a doctor. All parents know the experience of worrying whether their child has an ear infection -- treatment involves considerable pleading for a standby appointment at the doctor's office, followed by a long wait, a 30-second visit with the doctor, and then a trip to the pharmacy for another long wait. Throw in the half-day of missed work and the stiff bill, and it becomes clear why many advocate the need for more doctors. However, a growing number of visits, incorporating quick and easily interpreted diagnostic tests and algorithm-driven care for conditions such as ear infections, sore throats and minor burns, can be handled better in nurse-run clinics. MinuteClinic, the largest chain of such retail clinics, records average patient satisfaction scores of 4.9 out of 5, while providing care that is 32 to 47 percent below the cost of primary care physicians. While the rest of the health care system only delivers about 55 percent of recommended care, MinuteClinic staff demonstrated 99.15 percent adherence to clinical guidelines in a study involving over 50,000 visits. There are of course thorny medical problems for which we need physician care. However, squeezing payments to specialists will only further diminish access to complex care. Instead, we must equip and empower primary care doctors to do more. Don't Miss Commentary: Grateful Dead on health care Commentary: Obama should think small on health care In Depth: Commentaries Medical school graduates have overwhelmingly chosen specialty fields because of low professional satisfaction with the work primary care providers are expected to do. However, "disruptive" innovations are rapidly changing the scope of their work. Expert systems software can guide generalists through the same decision-making steps that a specialist would take. Point-of-care diagnostics allow for diagnoses to be made promptly in the clinic, and easy-to-deploy devices are creating more options for immediate treatment. These innovations deliver convenience to patients, eliminate the need for referrals to costlier specialists, and improve job satisfaction by enabling primary care doctors to deliver increasingly sophisticated care. There is new technology that makes it easier for non-anesthesiologists to administer conscious sedation, for example, allowing procedures such as colonoscopies to be done under the supervision of just the endoscopist and a nursing team. By removing anesthesiologists from the equation, these procedures can be performed in a clinic setting rather than in hospitals. By moving more complex care from specialists to primary care providers, the payments will follow. These changes would make primary care more fulfilling and financially rewarding, while freeing up specialists to do even more complicated work that merits their additional training. One reason people think there's a shortage of doctors is that health care is unevenly distributed around the nation, with inner cities and rural communities struggling the most to find adequate staff. However, the best solution will not come from increasing the physician supply or introducing salary incentives. Studies of geographical disparities of care have demonstrated that more physicians will likely lead to greater intensity of care -- but not better health outcomes. Instead, we should embrace eHealth initiatives that enable virtual clinic visits and online house calls, similar to services provided by TelaDoc, American Well, and HelloHealth. Offering such convenient and affordable channels to primary and preventive care is vital to relieving our overburdened emergency departments and public health system. The definition of quality care in the past has assumed that more expertise is always preferred -- doctors must be better than nurses, specialists must be better than primary care doctors, and brick-and-mortar must be better than a virtual interaction. But we need to move away from the "guild" mentality that has kept boundaries narrow and created regulatory, licensing and reimbursement obstacles to new models of health care delivery. Patients want correct diagnoses and effective therapies, but they also value accessibility, convenience, transparency, communication and their time and money -- none of which have been priorities of the traditional health care model. Rather than calling for more doctors, which would have been difficult for the government to impact anyway, what the country really needs are policies that pave the way to more avenues of care, which is well within the government's control.
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Like I said they are my beliefs basic and simple. No need to say your sorry for what you believe.
I apologized for coming across as harsh ... not for my beliefs ... and we have the same beliefs ... we just believe in different solutions ....
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What about the guy that has a job, but no bennies?
He pays for the bennies out of his own pocket ... or if he does not make enough to do that .. he either ...
A. gets a 2nd job ...
B. lives without them ... but GOES TO the Docs of to the EMERGENCY room when he needs to ... its not like people are dying because they can't go get HC .. they just do not have the type of "HC" U want them to have ... and I know .. IT STINKS .. I have MANY FRIENDS with no beni's .. and when they get sick ... they SUFFER ... and if it doesn't go away they go to the Docs and get billed ... and pay for it when they can ..
I know two primary care physicans .. and they both take new patients with NO CREDIT CHECK and get stuck sometimes ..
U all act like U can't go to the docs and get help w/o beni's .... WELL U CAN ... it just costs a hell of alot more ..
and when u need a specialist .. u go to the Emergency room ...
C. RE-PRIOTIZES and makes his bennies #3 on his list of priorities ...
Look .. our system is NOT FLAWLESS ... and it does need to be "tweaked" ... but Gov't is not going to make it better .. U know how I know .. CAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER ONCE HELPED ANYTING ELSE ... they get involved .. throw money at it for a few years .. and then it GOES SOUTH QUICK ..
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What about those like myself for instance that do want to pay, but can't afford or can't get decent coverage.
I pay so you know $1,105 per month to keep the coverage from my wifes job.
witch is it .... first u say U can't afford it .. then U say u are paying ... if i'm reading correctly ... your paying but the coverage does not meet your expectations ... but before I give u a response .. i want to make sure I understand what your saying ... so please clear things up for me and i will get back to U ..
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I don't think you have a clue when it comes to the cost. If you did you would begin to understand why this topic is and has been so hot.
Well appearantly u did not read my post (and thats OK ... theres lots of postsand that happens al the time) .. where I used my personal situation as an example ..
today i am paying $400/month FOR MYSELF ... now I have what I consider decent coverage ... but what everyone considers decent coverage is subject to there own definitions ...
and $400 is a nice chunk of change for a single guy that does not make that much money .... thats a nice chunk of my monthly income .... and trust me when i tell U .. it is a HUGE FINANCIAL burden for me to pay it .. but I choose to make that a PRIORITY ... I SACRIFICE to pay that ... and next year as I suspect I will see my annual 20% or so raise in cost I can expect to pay almost $500/month .. at witch point I will have to find another source of income to pay it ... and i will deal with it ACCORDINGLY ... why?? BECAUSE I HAVE TO ... for me, its that simple ..
I will be presented with a set of circumstances and i will have CHOICES TO MAKE ... and i will make them based on MY PRIORITIES ...
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A Guy that works and makes $20 per hour paying out 70, 80 dollars from his pay every week to maintain his coverage, and still if he goes to the Dr. or needs medication he pays out more. And year after year our bennies cover less and less cost.
IF this guys having problems .. I HAVE NO PITY FOR HIM .. NONE, ZILCH, NADA ....
20 x 40 = 800 (gross weekly income) ..... lets then say 30% coming out in taxes .... 800 x .30 = 560 (take home) ..... 560 - 100 (HC) = 460 ... that leaves him 1800 a month for food, shelter, transportation and clothing ..
NAAAA ... i have NO PITY FOR HIM ..... there are alot of folks I feel pity for when it comes to HC .. this guy is NOT ONE OF THEM ...
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And the private sector is in charge of the banking industry, the auto industry, and a slew of other enterprises and guess what if the government doesn't ride in to the rescue we would watch as our entire economy including health care go down the tubes.
Pssst .. the auto industry is going down the tubes anyhow bro .. ITS GONE .. it will be a SHELL OF ITSELF in about 5 years ... and this was COMING FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS ...
All gov't did was prolong its agony .... they did MORE TO HARM IT THAN HURT IT over the last 20 years ...
The banking industry and the economy would not have collapsed if the gov't did not coming riding in to save it .. there would have been a few bleak times .. but we would have RECOVERED JUST FINE and would actually be STRONGER, QUICKER if the gov't kept there damm noses out of it and LET MARKET FORCES ADJUST THEMSELVES ..
all the gov't did was FIRE UP THE PRINTING PRESSES and go to China and the Middle east with there hands out and asses exposed (cause thats whats happening everytime we borrow money from them .. and GIVE MONEY TO "SAVE" THE DAY ...
they do what they always do .. SHORT TERM GAIN FOR LONG TERM PAIN ... they been "massaging" the economy for 20 years now .. and it just keeps making it "better" in the short term but SERIOUSLY HURTING US LONG TERM ..
Look .. LET BAD BUSINESS'S DIE ...
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I believe that health care is a right. It's not about being Robin Hood, it's about a basic belief that EVERYONE including those that are poor, rich, or in the middle should have decent health care coverage.
and thats one of the major problems in todays society ... people think we have to many rights .... in a fair and just world i would agree with U .. and i WISH EVERYONE HAD GREAT HC .. but unfortunately thats not how it works ..
and dude . U can "massage" it any way u want ... EVERY TIME THE GOV'T SPENDS MONEY there playing Robin Hood .. they have ONE REVENUE STREAM .. they GENERATE NO REVENUE other than through TAXES ... thats it .. well now they fire up the printing presses but that just DE-VALUES ARE CURRENCY witch means I have to pay more for everything including MORE TAXES cause now they need more cause the dollar i give them is also worth less ..
U can talk and argue and color it any way U want .. but its always going to lead back to them PLAYING ROBIN HOOD ... cause every penny they spend comes from u and I ... ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ....
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Better yet tell me are you OK with providing health care via the ER?
Nope .. I like the ideas those guys had in there article .. but the POWERFUL LOBBYISTS OF THE AMA will never let OUR POLITICIANS do that .. have u learned nuttin watching how OUR GOV'T broke the bankruptcy laws to protect the UAW (MAJOR CONTRIBUTORS) just a week ago?? ..
I would LOVE LESS EXPENSIVE HC ... and i would love for folks not to be able to use ER like a primary care physican .. but i also KNOW THE GOV'T IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM ...
they have not SUCEEDED ONCE ... NOT ONCE ...
how about medicaid ... HOW IS THAT GOING??? .. and thats covering what .. about 30% of the population??? ...
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It all adds up if you can do the math, our health care industry is failing us, we can turn a blind eye to our nieghbors and friends for as long as we continue to have coverage and they don't, but if you believe that but by the grace of God that could be me, and what if it was? Then your entire perspective changes.
U do not know me at all .. so please SPARE ME the BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL CRAP ... I do have a heart .. I also have a brain ..
ITS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY .. and maybe if after doing that the GOV'T LEFT ME WITH ENOUGH .. I'D HELP MY FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS ... how about that .. *L* ...
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What if you worked full time but had no bennies?
I don't work full time .. I don't have bennies .. and i don't get ONE PENNY OF GOV'T ASSISTANCE .... yet i STILL HAVE VERY VERY EXPENSIVE HC ... that eats up ALOT OF MY MONEY ...
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What if you couldn't afford to pay yourself and you lost your job?
BEEN THERE .... DONE THAT ....
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And what if it was your KID or your wife or your Mom or Dad, or your brother or sister that was on the outside looking in?
WOULD NEVER HAPPEN ... I would find a way to get it done ... PERIOD ... I would go beg, plead and borrow until i found someone with the means to help ... PERIOD ... If I got in touch with 10,000 people and had no help .. i;d be in touch with 10,001 ....
I would NEVER ASK anyone for anything for me .. but for a family member .. I HAVE NO SHAME ....
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And what if they Die because they don't have coverage? What then?
I would be very sad ... and BLAME MYSELF because i FAILED THEM ... i was raised to look in the MIRROR ... not to point my finger ...
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Do you cover that up by saying I don't want the government to play Robin Hood.
i would not blame the gov't .. ITS MY JOB to take care of mine .. again .. one of the biggest problems today is that PEOPLE RELY WAY TO MUCH ON THE GOV'T ..
ITS THERE CRUTCH .. and it SHOULD NOT BE ..
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Or do you cover it up with the Personnal responsiblity claim?
No need to cover it up ... but i would BLAME MYSELF .. i all ready said that ..
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I want to hear you tell someone that worked their ASS off all their life, that they have to take personnal responsiblity for their health care and sorry what you did wasn't enough so you will just have to suffer and die because you lack health care coverage. Because that is what is happening NOW TODAY. And ME I find that unacceptable.
I would tell them that ... AND if they did work there asses off and did not MAKE DUMB ASS MISTAKES AND WEREN'T FINANCIALLY IRRESPONSIBLE ... then i would tell them .. sorry ... there is nuttin i can do for u ...
then i would go do WHATEVER i could to get them some help .. but my guess is .. the guy that ACTUALLY WORKED HIS ASS OFF and LIVED IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER ... would completely understand ...
and i HATE IT AS MUCH AS U DO ... I just do not believe the GOVERMENT TAKING IT OVER IS THE WAY TO GO ...
and u know what .. to be fair .. i have no seen any of the reform coming (well no one has yet .. *L*) ... so MAYBE ... i HIGHLY DOUBT IT .. but maybe .. it will actually be REFORM and NOT MORE GOV'T SUBSIDIES ...
U see all Ive heard about it so far .. is that its going to cost us 2 Trillion dollars more a year .. AND THAT SCARES ME ....
REFORM HC and KEEP GOV'T OUT OF IT ... thats REFORM ..
when i see the Gov't SPENDING MORE MONEY ... thats NOT REFORM .. thats just more GOVERMENT SUBSIDIES with a KINDER WORD ..
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I am so sick and tired of this "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" society that I could puke.
For the record, I don't have health insurance -- haven't for almost 10 years -- and I don't want any part of across the board coverage, thank you. I don't want the government telling me what is and isn't important for my health. It's bad enough that insurance companies do it, but I most certainly don't want Obama involved with my body.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Can you spare a dollar Michelle
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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There is a distinct lack of pride for some people in this country. They have absolutely no shame anymore. They'll gladly take money out of your pocket to pay for themselves and their family. Because it's their right to have anything they desire. 
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I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I want 50% of that dollar!
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
but I most certainly don't want Obama involved with my body.
Thanks Chelle ... could uthink of no GROSSER way to phrase that ..... the image was bad enough when I thought of Obama and your body .. then I thought about Obama and my body ....
I believe that part should be edited ... for the sake of those that have not yet been exposed to it ...
Thanks Again ... hopefully I'll be able to sleep by this time next week ...  ..
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#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I can't believe that people believe it is their right to have anything like housing, food, and health care.
You have a right to remain silent, you have a right to a speedy trial by a jury of your peers, you have a right to freedom of religion. You have no right to housing, food, or medicine.
I may have an obligation to help others, but they do not have a right to take anything from me for this assistance.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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j/c
I've gotta agree with Diam, Michelle, Jules et al. You HAVE to have personal responsibility. I've been out of work, hell I was on Unemployment, yet I still found a way to insure myself. I knew I needed to, I have too many continuing issues (alleriges, cholesterol etc). I scrimped and saved and managed to pay for private insurance for myself. Even on Unemployment it can be done. I went from making $32K/year to Unemployment making less than half that, still had all of my other expenses, rent, car etc and I still found ways to pay for insurance. It's not impossible, you just have to spend your money wisely. I had to choose between a social life (while I was single) and insurance. I chose insurance. I made it my priority.
It is not my responsibility to pay for someone else's lack of prior planning or prioritizing.
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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Really interesting reading this thread and how health care works in your Country.
In England we have the National Health Service, If I were ill I could go to the Hospital or Doctor and be looked after immediately. If I needed an operation I would join a waiting list but eventually that operation would be done and I would pay nothing as it is all covered in our taxes.
There is a two tier system as many choose not to rely on the 'Free' NHS and have private medical cover. Depending on the plan you select it would see you diagnosed and operated on immediately.
The problem I have is that because our health service is free we get thousands of immigrants coming here simply to benefit from our 'Free' health service, and all the other benefits (council housing, income support, child benefit) our system almost encourages you to not take personal responsibility but to rely on the state.
I am amazed at the cost of your cover Diam $400 per month!!?? that is some serious money. Just so I can understand ..... if you dont have any medical insurance in the US and you get ill and need an operation unless you, family or friends can get the money you go without?
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In England we have the National Health Service, If I were ill I could go to the Hospital or Doctor and be looked after immediately. If I needed an operation I would join a waiting list but eventually that operation would be done and I would pay nothing as it is all covered in our taxes.
We have that in Canada. On the plus side, it's nice to not have to worry about health care costs if something happens. On the minus side, we are taxed silly here and a large poriton goes to HC costs (so they say).
I hardly ever use the health care system but pay a lot of taxes, & sometimes I feel like I'm getting ripped off. But if something were to happen, I have a safety net....
I was talking to an American health care professional when I was in Cleveland at a hotel bar near Hopkins (bar was named Amelia's IIRC) anyway, ... he knew about Canada's health care system and I asked him: what's the difference.. say I'm an American and have to pay for health insurance, or I'm Canadian and don't have to, but get taxed up the wazoo. He basically said it's six of one, half dozen of the other... either way, it isn't really "free".
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The problem I have is that because our health service is free we get thousands of immigrants coming here simply to benefit from our 'Free' health service, and all the other benefits (council housing, income support, child benefit) our system almost encourages you to not take personal responsibility but to rely on the state.
Same here. It's partly I think, why Jules calls Canada the 'nanny' state. hahaha
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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if you dont have any medical insurance in the US and you get ill and need an operation unless you, family or friends can get the money you go without?
No, thats not true ... HOSPITALS/EMERGENCY Rooms can not turn U away ... its the law ..
I just had a friend of mine have QUADRUPLE BY PASS surgery and he had no HC ...
our system is in dissaray .. its OUTRAGEOWUS AND WAY TO EXPENSIVE .. but people can get care ... and i said it in one of my first posts ..
WE DO HAVE a NATIONAL HEALTH CARE system ... cause when folks w/o coverage get sick they just go to the emergency rooms ...
the folks like Brown to the Bone and the other liberals have a VALID POINT .. our system has a MAJOR FLAW .. its just not near as bad as they want to make it seem to be ...
they want people to have MEDICAL ON DEMAND .. they get the sniffles .. they should be able to go to the docs .. (and i'm over simplyfing here) ..
like I said .. our system has gotten way to expensive .. and needs fixing .. problem is the Gov't does not want to REFORM IT ... they want to SUBSIDIZE IT ...
HUGE DIFFERENCE THERE ..
Reforming it would be doing what those guys said in that article i posted .... and allowing more students into med school .. and doing sumptin about the mal practice insurance ..
all the gov't is going to do is THROW MONEY AT IT AND MAKE IT WORSE ..
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I am so sick and tired of this "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" society that I could puke.
Ditto.
The only thing I would add is that it has changed from "gimme gimme gimme" to "I have a right......"
B.S.
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I am amazed at the cost of your cover Diam $400 per month!!??
I'd love to only pay 400 a month....Between my insurance and deductable i pay around 12000 a yr...and my insurance is going up $ 80 a month in Sept...right now 20% of my income is going to healthcare....
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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I am amazed at the cost of your cover Diam $400 per month!!??
I'd love to only pay 400 a month....Between my insurance and deductable i pay around 12000 a yr...and my insurance is going up $ 80 a month in Sept...right now 20% of my income is going to healthcare....
nordawg
Phew! And I thought my costs were high. I pay roughly $650/month, but I cover 3 people with that. And that includes a $50/month fee to cover the hubby since he's able to get coverage at his employer but we elect to put it all on mine.. (with that $50 fee, it's still cheaper for us to have me cover the 3 of us than for us to do it separately...and I have better coverage)
We're doing a pre-emptive coverage on the hubby since he may be seeking a new job soon (maybe). Besides, his employer just raised his costs by $75/month earlier this year.
#gmstrong
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That coverage is for me and my wife....but still 20%....Now i'm covered under medicare but i still pay for Part B+D plus i carry suplimental insurance to pay the 20% medicare doesn't..and then i carry my wifes insurance through my union.. and then you have the deductibles...
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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It all becomes so classical, if your pro people your a liberal automatically. BS to that.
Like it don't like it, we pay thru the whazzoo for health care for everyone, like it or not but we do it on the high priced side, that's what I mean. And yes compassion for those less fortunate or not equipped to handle their personal lives better then they do is something I refuse to ignore. It would be very easy for me to turn my back, like I said I pay thru the ass to maintain benefits for myself and my family.
But here is the deal as is the BEST I could do to self insure myself is to get a policy that would send me to bankruptcy. When you pay $400 a month for health insurance, you are showing your ass all over town. The benefits kick in when you hit deductibles that run into the THOUSANDS of dollars. For me with my wife and kids we would have no health care coverage until we reached deductibles' that run in the teens in terms of thousands of dollars, and if it were me that were sick my family would be in bankruptcy if my medical expenses reached that level. Not to mention the fact that on top of these huge deductibles the coverage for any hospital visit would also reach into the hundreds of thousands of dollars before the benefits kick in.
With the coverage I currently have I pay the 1st 2500 for any hospital visit, and I have so called great insurance. But I want to tell you something Diam I don't think your aware of I CANNOT get that level of coverage as a person that wishes to self insure myself at any price. I can only get a policy that covers me when I can no longer pay my bills let alone the deductibles. In other words I would be bankrupt. And let me tell you something else I can honestly say I have enough money to cover all my bills for 6 months, yet if I were to become ill under what the insurance companies are willing to offer me I would be broke in a matter of weeks, and in bankrupt within months.
And you and others don't get that part at ALL.
I'm not asking for much I want to be protected against my wife and family being forced into bankruptcy because I become ill. That don't make me a bleeding heart it makes me practical and responsible. I'm doing my what if's and paying what I can, and I have done the best I can to insure my families security, yet it isn't enough. And trust me I make more money then most people and yet I can't protect myself. So I say to myself, what's it like for all the other people that are less well off? Their in the dumper for sure they are especially if they have ANY pre-existing condition.
And here is another little tid bit for you. More people end up declaring bankruptcy because of medical bills then for any other reason. Yet we pay and pay and pay for insurance. And the more you need it the less accessible it is. Why ? The whole purpose of insurance is to protect yourself, yet your not protected when you need it the most. The private insurance industry picks and choose who they insure, and now for ME because my wife is diabetic they don't want anything to do with us, so what are we left with, coverage options that don't cover us or protect us.
I know this, because I tried when my wife left her job and I tried to replace her insurance with insurance of our own it just wasn't available. DO YOU HEAR what I'm saying not available means not AVAILABLE. I was stuck with cobra and when it runs out I will be cast into a state program that will assign us to a carrier, but there is no guarantee of the level of coverage or it's price. That to me isn't coverage it's highway robbery where there is no competition and no insurance benefits that protect me and my family. That's what I'm talking about, but I don't think you hear that part or understand that part.
My message isn't getting thru to you, because you don't want to hear it. I am more then willing to be personally responsible, but pick up the phone and start calling insurance companies and tell them you have diabetes, or a heart condition or have had cancer, and you will soon find out that insurance for you is not available in a meaningful way, a way in which your protected, truly protected.
So it's not about being personally responsible, it's about there isn't any way to be personally responsible. What about that ??
How do you think it's OK for that to be the case. If it is then you got me, I can go to hell. I can watch everything I worked for, and everything I ever dreamed about disappear because I can't get health care coverage that protects me. And you wonder why I have the opinion that the health care system is a failure.
And yes, worrying about how it is for others is a part of that, and it should be. Call me a bleeding heart liberal all you want, I wear the title with pride, I care, so I'm a bleeding heart liberal. What the hell has happened to our society that makes it a bad thing to care about other people, in a meaningful way that makes a difference. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but I hope someday the lights do come on for you, and you and others wake up and realize caring is OK.
JMHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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I wanted to buy health care coverage for myself and my wife, after my wife quit her job to have our 2 little girls, and be a stay at home mom.
mistake #1 ... your wife had diabates and she quit her job BEFORE U CHECKED INTO THE HEALTH CARE ... not real intelligent ... u ever heard the saying .. DUCKS IN A ROW ... if not, let me know and I;ll explain it to U ..
U MADE A CHOICE ... your wife was going to be a stay at home mom ... GOOD FOR U .. thats a good, noble choice ... WITH CONSEQUENCES ...
U can only grab one end of the stick .. U chose the stay at home mom route .. now appearantly u want your cake and u want to eat it too ...
U are suffering them now ... your wife unfortunatley has diabetes ... and that STINKS ... what are the insurance companies suppose to give u plan where THEY LOSE MONEY?? ... is that all U want ..
OH NO .. not u .. Mr. i care for others .. U WANT ME AND EVERYONE ELSE TO PAY FOR IT ...
thats what it boils down to ...
let me guess .. BEING A STAY AT HOME MOM IS A RIGHT ALSO ...
U have gotten through to me QUITE CLEARLY ... EVERYOME ELSE SHOULD PAY FOR YOUR HI SO YOUR WIFE CAN BE A STAY AT HOME MOM ..
at least now i know where your coming from and we understand each other ..
Good luck dude ... thats an unfortunate situation with your wife and the diabetes .. hopefully it never becomes an issue ...
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It still baffles me that so many people are against national health care. Thank God we have a president that cares about the LOWER class. A lot of people work their tails off and still don't make enough to pay these outrageous costs. Some of you can, and that's great, but some of us can't. This issue right here is the reason I voted for Obama. I am elated to see how quickly he is moving on it. 
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So, because you can't afford to pay for something, you want someone else to pay for it for you. Got it.
The problem is, the country.........all of us combined, all 15 or 30 million people that actually pay taxes......we can't afford it. But, as long as we take from those that have in order to give to those that think they deserve, everything is okay, huh?
Actually, it might be closer to 50 million people that actually pay in taxes and don't get back more than they pay.
So you want 50 million people to cover not only the current bills the gov't. creates, but you want those 50 million to pay for everyone's healthcare as well?
Why the hell do I work?
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Sorry Arch, but we have progressed so far down the slope of "what has the government done for you lately" that there really isn't any turning back.
We can bandage it and try to slow the bleeding... that's about all we can do.
yebat' Putin
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All i know is a lot of people are suffering w/o health care. So what happens is they get sick, don't pay their medical bills, and the costs just keep escalating. Making it even harder for them (and you) to afford coverage.
I don't have the answers. I work 6 days a week. A lot of Americans work and still can't afford coverage or can't get it because of pre-existing conditions. Its BS. Plain and simple. If you was ever on this side of the problem, you'd have a different view.
Last edited by Rikdawgg; 05/15/09 12:45 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Health care is a tricky subject, and for the most part, the debate has been narrowed down to hollow arguments for either side -- it's essentially become a debate over which corrupt bureaucracy is going to screw it. In my mind, ideally we should have a system that is OK with and designed to run at a loss -- health care should not be a profit game. However, *our* government running the show wouldn't really be a much better solution. Don't doubt for a second that there will still be all sorts of heartache stories about procedures not deemed viable by the gov't. I don't have the answers, but I don't think either side of the debate does either. One thing that's killing me though is these pro-privatization ads they run everywhere that say "Do you really want the government telling you what doctor you can see and what you can have done?" Nah, I'll let the insurance company dictate instead. All in all, I'd rather have a shoddy government program compared to what we have now. What we have now is borderline extortion. But it's a nuanced debate.
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