|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
j/c: Attack.......I will PM you. DawgStyle: It's a bit of both, but of course......my opinions are formulated on what I know to be true instead of what others think is true. To the rest.........this board is becoming like the other board. It was a lot more fun and there was better football talk before so many posters abondoned the other board and came over here. It's back to chest thumping and drawing lines in the sand and the truth be damned.  I wonder what the mob will say when Savage actually cans RAC next year? Let me guess........... Savage gave RAC every chance, even to the point of bringing in new coaches, but RAC just isn't cut out for the job. LOL.......but only a couple of us can see how he Savage is already laying the groundwork for that move....and the rest of you actually will believe that's how it went down.....oh, and conveniently forget this entire conversation. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I wonder what the mob will say when Savage actually cans RAC next year?
That for the sake of continuity, Savage fired him a year too late.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,013
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,013 |
PIT... buy a new HC = buy 1 more year...there's that tomato tomahto thing again... VERS... i know i'll say he was fired too soon...but i'm usually the last to jump ship i guess...i'm closer to your stance than most on the issue of fans and media and their blame-praise cycle, but i think you're inventing something in order to further confirm your previous notions on Savage... and BTW, drawing a line in the sand is about the only way to argue your point around here...if you admit gray areas, people just tell you your position is weak...
Browns fans are born with it...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601 |
Verse, At the risk of being dubbed a tadpole  my beef with RAC have been the things he DOES have control over. 1. NO 2nd half adjustments. 2. ZERO wins in our division and 1-11 since he came here. 3. The handling of Leon. I know that you have some inside dirt on the havoc that Leon caused this season with some of his teamates. These may look like little things in the grand scheme but as a HC, he hasn't progressed and learned his lessons week to week... I don;t expect him to be perfect but again, progression HAS to be shown by this point in his tenure no matter how small it may be. For the record, I don't want him to be fired but truth be told, if he doesn't improve on his mistakes, he is writing his own ticket out of town... As for Savage, he needs ot share the burden for what he has given RAC to work with.... The QB fiasco in itself was boneheaded to say the least... Trading away DP's for "temp" fixes such as Dilfer and then flipping the 4th rd investment for one Ken Dorsey and an extra 7th.. His 1st Draft was lackluster but when you look at the draft class overall, it was VERY weak! Out of the players chosen in the top 10 (and it pains me to say this) Braylon has been a better pick than ALL of the other offensive picks... He then improved on it this year and grabbed us 3 SOLID players and he still doesn't have a final grade due to some of them getting little playing time... He was a BIG player if FA landing us LCB, JJ and Zas... McG and TW will not be so bad in hindsight either providing our young bucks pay attention to what they teach... I could be wrong with this but I have not seen ONE post from you that atleast acknowledges RAC's shortcomings but merely you pointing out the "mob wants to can RAC." In all honesty, I see the Mob coming out in droves for him if he continues the same coaching pattern we have seen from him and to tell you the truth, I would be one of them carrying a preverbial torch... You are hard on Phil for your own reasons but realize that RAC must share the cross at some point as well man... Continuity be damned...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
I could be wrong with this but I have not seen ONE post from you that atleast acknowledges RAC's shortcomings but merely you pointing out the "mob wants to can RAC." In all honesty, I see the Mob coming out in droves for him if he continues the same coaching pattern we have seen from him and to tell you the truth, I would be one of them carrying a preverbial torch...
Let me refresh your memory. I did not want Butch to be fired. He was.
I was as loud as anyone on the board against hiring RAC. I didn't want him and was roundly lambasted for saying so.
I liked the hiring of Savage. He had an impressive resume and came in saying all the right things.
If you know me, you know I try to call things as I see them. You have never once seen me call for any of these guys to be fired. I just think that Savage has done a crappy job of trying to build this team. I disagree w/many of his moves. I still hold out hope that he improves. And I still want him to stay.
I am not sure about RAC. I haven't been sure of too many of our coaches that the new regime hired. My point is that it is hard to evaluate any of the coaches because of the talent that is here.
I do think it is easier for the masses to blame the coaches than Savage. Afterall, if Savage is truly a failure, the Browns will be losers for a long, long time. It is much easier to blame RAC and the coaching staff for the poor record, including the 1 and 11 division record. While I understand it, I don't agree w/it and I don't condone it. I will speak my peace, but I understand that RAC is as good as gone. Nothing I can do about it.
My only hope is that someday.....one day........the Browns, the media that covers them, and the fans that follow them......will realize that there are sound ways to build a football team.
---Bring in the right people, from the get-go.
---Develop a plan.
---Stick to the plan and to hell w/what the outsiders say.
---Acquire talent that fits into your plan. Follow this strategy---
+never pass on a franchise QB if you don't have one.
+Build the trenches first and add the perimeter players later.
+Draft offensive linemen every year on the first day. Good ones don't become available in free agency unless you are willing to drastically overpay for them.
+Use FA only as a tool. Do NOT build any unit through FA, but acquire guys to get you to the next level.
+Rid yourself of me-first players. I don't care how much talent they have, they will destroy your team.
---Fine tune things and keep upgrading your talent.
I do know that firing coaches, coordinators, GM's---scapegoats for an unsound plan---and starting all over by getting new players to fit the new system only leads to false optimism and continued losing.
And I hate to tell you this, my friend, but that's all we have seen from the Browns since they came back.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"One more thing. tab , I am still upset w/you, but your last two posts are pretty accurate, at least from what I hear."
well thanks for the good grade  but no matter what happens I ain't going to kiss you either 
Just one thing...I pretty much read about everything written on this board except for about a month of Toad.
I don't remember once you saying Lott was going to go? When was that?
He's been one of my favorites I would have remembered that. I'm waiting for his book to find out what happened. I really would like to know.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,524
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,524 |
The guy was a goofball.  I know you have heard that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
OK ... so u want him fired for the following reasons ... 1. handling of MO ... how should he have handled it then .. when should he have been fired??? 2. Gameday coaching .... thats a pretty sweeping statement .. can u give me some examples to get my teeth into ... and we can discuss it further .. kinda hard to tell u why your wrong on that broad a statement ..  3. he mishandled his players ... witch players are those?? ,,, i'm pretty sure i know witch two .. but before we discuss it i would like to know witch ones .. 4. poor coaching staff selections?? like u said .. hindsights 20/20 .. just a couple questions for u on this one .. 1. WHO WAS AVAILABLE .. he had to be picking from the scrapheap as he wasn't until after the SB so all the other new coaches that were hired anywhere from 2 - 4 weeks before him were taking all the "non" retained guys and all the "bright" up and comers ... WHO WAS LEFT?? witch guys would have been upgrades over what we got??? 2, lets say we got Charlie Wies as O-coordinator .. Dom capers as D Coordinator .. and all the best coaches from around the league .. with oUR TALENT LEVEL how bad of coaches would these guys have become overnight??? 5. is BULLCRAP .... your saying we should have fired the guy to avoid a lame duck status?? *LOL* .. ya .. thats a good reason .. come on bro .. thats HORSE$HIT and u know it .. he has RIGHTFULLY BEEN GIVEN MORE TIME TO PROVE HIMSELF ... so 5 is just a joke ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,850
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,850 |
Quote:
Let me refresh your memory. I did not want Butch to be fired. He was.
enlighten me... that whole thing about Butch having anixiety attack after the thumping given by the Bengals was not the real story behind his resignation ?
if it was not and Butch was in fact being fired ...... Butch was more of a coward than he was for leaving the team in the middle of the season, i.e Botch needed an excuse for his firing...
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
1. handling of MO ... how should he have handled it then .. when should he have been fired???
Before Savage had to step in and do it for him.
Quote:
2. Gameday coaching .... thats a pretty sweeping statement .. can u give me some examples to get my teeth into ... and we can discuss it further .. kinda hard to tell u why your wrong on that broad a statement ..
Making poor decisions on when to throw the red flag and when not to, when to change how his defense and offense schemed into the 2nd halves and into the 4th quarters (since he had no real part in the offense, that's an indictment itself).
Quote:
4. poor coaching staff selections?? like u said .. hindsights 20/20 .. just a couple questions for u on this one ..
Hindsight is 20/20, but judging is ABOUT looking back and making a judgement. Mo was his boy, and it's clear that he isn't an OC. I won't waste both our time naming a dozen coaches who could have come and played, but here's one for ya: A guy named Chud Gonna be kinda hard to do worse than Mo, who's now a RB's coach, while Chud was a guy the Chargers wanted to keep as the OC.
As far as #5 goes, when we fire RAC this year and bring in a new set of coaches........again.........remember that we had this discussion.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,555
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,555 |
Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. handling of MO ... how should he have handled it then .. when should he have been fired??? I mean I don't remember seeing a report of any kind that clearly indicated that Savage stepped in and made that happen.,.,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before Savage had to step in and do it for him.
Are we actually sure that Savage had to step in or is that speculation?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
It'll take someone who's got the time and desire to dig up the article, but it came out that Savage and Co. had to finally force the issue on MO. Sure, the PR machine said that RAC called Mo into the office and did the deed, but the report that came out PRIOR to that stated RAC was still loyal and that Savage had to force the issue.
Irregardless of that, RAC should have fired Mo after his first season. The bottom line was that Mo wasn't the right guy for the job. The judgement shown that believed in him was flawed.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
Before Savage had to step in and do it for him.
I dont see where thats a big deal for a couple reasons ..
1. after opie stepped in and did it for him ... HOW'D IT WORK OUT TEH REST OF THE SEASON?? i saw NO IMPROVEMENT from the O .. did i miss sumptin???
2. it would have been a bad thing to firs him after last season .. he was a first time OC . u give him a CHANCE TO CORRECT his mistakes ... u dotnj give him one year and can him .. thats CRAP .. unless theres major problems on many fronts .. firing people after 1 year sends out ALL THE SRONG SIGNALS to others ..
Quote:
Making poor decisions on when to throw the red flag and when not to,
that one i ABSOLUTELY 100% AGREE WITH ... he is HORRIBLE at that .. he needs to get new guys int he booth that give him advice on that stuff .. NO DOUBT .. as u well know the HC's rely on the guys in the booth with the replay machines for most of if not all of those calls ..
Quote:
when to change how his defense and offense schemed into the 2nd halves and into the 4th quarters (since he had no real part in the offense, that's an indictment itself).
1. how do u know we didnt; change schemes and they just DIDNT EXCUTE ..
2. how do u know we had the TALENT TO CHANGE SCHEMES .. dotn forget most of our players were NO TRICK PONIES much less 2 or 3 trick ponies
3. WE WERE VERY YOUNG AND INEXPERIENCED .. dont u think that plays alot into what u can and cant do ..
sorry bro .. i see this changing BIG TIME when we have more TALENT and MORE EXPERIENCE ..
RAC never had any problems CHANGING schemes and had no probs with in game adjustemnts at NE .. no reason why he can't do the same here ...
Quote:
Mo was his boy, and it's clear that he isn't an OC.
just like it was clear that billicheck wasnt a HC .. .. he gave mo a chance . he failed .. HES GONE .. what more do u want?? seems like RAC has no chance to fail in his asst. coaching picks ... the guys gonna make mistakes ..
if Mo dont learn from his mistakes here he will never become an OC ... if he does .. who knows .. cause he certainly had NO CHANCE TO SUCEED HERE with the talent we had ..
Quote:
As far as #5 goes, when we fire RAC this year and bring in a new set of coaches........again.........remember that we had this discussion.
why?? it stil wont change my opinion .... he DESERVES AT LEAST THIS YEAR .... and firing him now because hes a "lame duck" would be moronic .. if hes a Lame Duck they should just fire him now .. if thats true then Opie is a JACK ASS ..
unless he thinks he has Cowher locked up for some dumb reason he'd be stupid to keep RAC on for one more year when doom is impending ..
if he gets fired after next year this convo means nuttin ..
PS. what abouth those mishandled players???
ssssssssssssssssssssorry bro .. even if your right on your 5 points .. those 5 things added up aren't enough to get him fired IMO ..
Quote:
I won't waste both our time naming a dozen coaches who could have come and played, but here's one for ya: A guy named Chud Gonna be kinda hard to do worse than Mo, who's now a RB's coach, while Chud was a guy the Chargers wanted to keep as the OC.
1. please waste my time with the dozen or so "names" cause i have no clue who they would be .... hence why i asked the ???
2. so we were suppose to make chud our OC back then .. what did he have 1 or 2 years total experience int he NFL as a TE coach?? OK ... that would have been a good move .. *LOL* ..
and PS. .. if Sd wanted him as OC as u suggest .. how'd we get him????
i mean who'd u rather coach .... Darth/Gates/Rivers or Droughans/KW/Frye .. pretty easy choice there ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,524
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,524 |
The deal with schemes is this.....it is one thing to change schemes to throw off an opponent. It is entirely different if you are changing schemes to mask a flaw.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I dont see where thats a big deal for a couple reasons ..
1. after opie stepped in and did it for him ... HOW'D IT WORK OUT TEH REST OF THE SEASON??
That doesn't mean a thing.
Maybe we should have kept Couch, I mean, how'd it work out for the past few years?
It doesn't matter what happened afterwards. If there's a problem, you FIX THE PROBLEM. RAC couldn't/wouldn't fix the problem, so his bosses had to come do it for him.
The FACT is that RAC couldn't pull the trigger on an obvious move, and as the shot-caller, it was HIS JOB to do what had to be done. By NOT being able to do it, he proved that he wasn't up to the task.
Pointing to what's happened since doesn't change the fact that MO had to go and that RAC couldn't do it.
When the GM has to step in and fix a problem...........IT'S A PROBLEM.
Quote:
RAC never had any problems CHANGING schemes and had no probs with in game adjustemnts at NE .. no reason why he can't do the same here ...
Who's to say he called all the shots in NE? We had some leads going into the 2nd half of games and lost most of them. Most of those times it was because the other team made adjustments and we didn't. Maybe it was the asst. coaches and maybe it wasn't, but it's up to RAC, the master of the 3-4, to come up with something to stop the other team.
Quote:
sorry bro .. i see this changing BIG TIME when we have more TALENT and MORE EXPERIENCE ..
Perhaps, but in-game adjustments are important, and I didn't see any adjustments by our team. The HC is responsible for that. Note I'm not talking about players here, I'm talking about calling formations and schemes. In the 2nd half of most of those games we lost, our defense was sniffed out.
Quote:
just like it was clear that billicheck wasnt a HC .. .. he gave mo a chance . he failed .. HES GONE .. what more do u want??
Accountability, not excuses
Forget the players and the win's and losses. I want RAC held accountable for his blown decisions, and it appears that Opie has done that by having a much stronger hand in this next set of coaches.
You asked why I think RAC isn't a good HC. Mo is an example. I want nothing more than to answer your question
Quote:
why?? it stil wont change my opinion .... he DESERVES AT LEAST THIS YEAR .... and firing him now because hes a "lame duck" would be moronic .. if hes a Lame Duck they should just fire him now .. if thats true then Opie is a JACK ASS ..
Er.......I'm sure you had a point there, but my mind has lost the flow of that one, hehe.
Remember when we gave Butch that last season, even though he was seriously on the hot seat? He walked in as a lame-duck coach and the team folded under him. My point to firing RAC has more to do with speeding up a process based on the odds that he won't do well this season.
Look at it like this. I'm not asking you sway your opinion, but I AM asking you to see mine. I wanted MO to get another year. You probably remember that. BUT after a few games I wanted him fired, AND after it all came out just how bad he was for this team, I was wrong about giving him another year and admit he should have been fired after the first one. Now, how does that equate to RAC? I see a head coach who's been rapped on the knuckles for choosing poorly in his coaches, hasn't kept his players under wraps when he should have, hasn't done a good job of game-day coaching, and is now on the hot-seat. I'm of the opinion that this past season would have been the right time to fire a guy who's AT BEST very iffy as a HC because the odds are against him being better than he's shown his first two years.
There is a theory, and I will ephasize IT'S JUST THEORY, that having a coach who's more likely to be fired causes a big problem with the confidence of the team and the organization, as well as creating a situation where outside coaches may shy away from us because of the stability issue. If RAC is fired it will most likely cause more coaching changes, and we've created a revolving door where we're shifting coaches in and out, pretty much like we're doing now.
I'd rather have done the deed early and brought in a set of coaches who are all in unison here. Maybe RAC was a good guy by telling Chud he should explore other opportunities because he didn't know how it'd turn out in Cleveland, but the bottom line is that such a statement is the same as saying "I don't know that you're the guy to be our OC." So now Chud is back and to me, the situation is dicey. I also would have rather had a new coach in place who's going to be here for a couple of seasons who could bring in players that he wants.
All I'm doing now is rehashing what I've said a bunch of times allready, and I don't know this is something I want to keep doing. Suffice it to say in the past few years we've kept Butch and Mo too long, and I think the odds are that we're doing the same thing here with RAC.
Maybe he deserves the 3rd year, but ask yourself this honest question: If RAC is fired, do you see a guy who's going to get another shot as the HC, or do you see a guy like Butch or Mo who are destined for lower jobs? I've asked myself that question, and I see a guy who's going to make a great DC for some team, but he won't get another HC shot, and that tells me he isn't the right guy for us.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
Maybe we should have kept Couch, I mean, how'd it work out for the past few years?
if he can throw lefthanded it couldnt have been much worse .. *L* .. apples and oranges bro ..
Quote:
It doesn't matter what happened afterwards. If there's a problem, you FIX THE PROBLEM.
I agree .. problem is we DIDNT FIX THE PROBLEM by firing him mid season now did we??? ... if RAC wouldn't let him go after the season .. then there'd have been a problem .. and i'd be on board with U ....
i'm not big on firing guys mid season unless u have a VIABLE OPTION or they do sumptin outrageous .. theres a reason why there are so FEW FIRINGS or coaching changes at all mid season in trhe NFL .. and thats cause most of the time they cause more harm than good ..
and ours MADE NO DIFFERENCE .. and IMO if it isnt going to make a difference .. WHY THE HELL ROCK THE BOAT???
Quote:
The FACT is that RAC couldn't pull the trigger on an obvious move, and as the shot-caller, it was HIS JOB to do what had to be done. By NOT being able to do it, he proved that he wasn't up to the task.
and since the season ended for whatever reason he PULLED THE TRIGGER on many more ... regardless of weather Opie forced the moves or not .. RAC did it .. so appearantly hes LEARNED that lesson .... no???
Quote:
Who's to say he called all the shots in NE?
not me thats for sure ... Billicheck is the best defensive mind we've had in this game for a long time .. possibly ever .. why wouldn't he have MAJOR INPUT .. but i also HIGHLY DOUBT RAC just sat there with his thumb up his ass and just patted Bill on the back .. he had ALOT OF INPUT ...
never said he called all the shots .. just know he had to have been more than a figurehead looking all pretty and stuff ...
hes been a WELL RESPECTED DEFENSIVE MIND FOR ALOT OF YEARS BRO ..
Quote:
We had some leads going into the 2nd half of games and lost most of them.
yes we did .. AMAZING WE EVER HAD THE LEAD WITH THE LACK OF TALENT AND YOUTH WE HAD .. yet u wanna blame him for losing the leads but give him no credit for GETTING ThE LEAD ..
AS OUR talent level GOES UP i BELIEVE U WILL SEE A CORRELATION INT HE AMOUNT OF leads we have and keep ...
TALENT TALENT TALENT .. thats what wins ..
Quote:
Most of those times it was because the other team made adjustments and we didn't.
sure they did .. well most of the time .. OTHERS OUR O IMPLODED or our D wore down and they just pounded us .... but at the end of the day my friend .. the other team had MORE TALENT TO MAKE ADJUSTMENST WITH ..
face it bro . our hands were tied in what we could do due to LACK OF TALENT AND YOUTH ... what could we do with Ted Washington or Dra or DQ or wimbely .. our hands were tied in more ways than one ..
at the end of the day .. HOW TEAMS BEAT US THAT WE HAD MORE TALENT THAN???? and HOW MANY TEAMS DID WE BEAT THAT HAD MORE TALENT THAN US????
LETS LOOK .. we were the worsed team in our division talent wise ... so theres 6 losses ... NO had more talent than we did ... Carolina had more talent than us .. Atlanta had more talent than us ..
TB was close .. we may have actuallyhad more talent than them .. but it was close either way ... Houston .. close again .. Oakland we had more talent than .. who else did we beat other than Oakland?? *L* ..
SD and denver and KC all had more talent than us .. and we beat KC didn;t we????
see what i mean bro ... u can talk about adjustments but i just dont see it .. HE HAD TO MAKE THEM .. we just didnt have the talent to make them work or he really had to sclae them down so we would have a shot at executing them ...
saying he made no adjustments is like saying the guy that went into the figth with the butter knife should have beaten the guy with the maching gun .. its just not fair to judge who is better ..
Quote:
Note I'm not talking about players here, I'm talking about calling formations and schemes. In the 2nd half of most of those games we lost, our defense was sniffed out.
Quote:
come on bro .. TALENT IS what allows u to run different schemes ... different formations .. WE RAN ALOT OF THOSE .. thats just wrong .. I'd see dra lined up on the line sometimes and not others .. I'd see dQ doing the same thing .. wimbely would rush most of the time (as he should) but drop into coverage on others .. we ran CB and safety and LB blitzes all the time ..
how can u say that??? its just not true ..
and u know TALENT along with EXPERIENCE DICTATES what u can and cant do from a formations and scheme stand point ..
look .. I'll be the last one to stick up for rAC and say he did a good job .. but to say he was a BLAND defensive coach and thats why we lost even one or much less most of our games is just PHOOOY .. not even close to being true ..
Quote:
Accountability, not excuses
ahh .. so get it right the first time or hit the road?? OK ..
i know thats not what your saying .. i just don't see the sum of all the things he did wrong adding up to being lynched ... u may have meant guilliteneability not accountability ....
Quote:
You asked why I think RAC isn't a good HC.
no i asked why u wanted him canned .. not why he isnt a good HC ...
Quote:
Remember when we gave Butch that last season, even though he was seriously on the hot seat? He walked in as a lame-duck coach and the team folded under him.
wow .. guess my memory is really going ... i dont recall that all .. i actually recall the oppossite ... Policy was put out to pasture and bOtch was given COMPLETE CONTROL OVER EVERYTHING .. I saw that as being far from lame Duck status .. actually I see that as more of a dictatorship than Lame duck .. guess we have different ideas of what lame duck is ... *L*
the team folded under him because they all HATED HIM and DISTRUSTED HIM .. all his years of LYING and BACKSTABBING and CRAPPY DECISIONS caught up with him ... i think the only one that liked him was one fo the top 3 LT's int he league ..
we have an entirely different view of what happend there ...
Quote:
I'm not asking you sway your opinion, but I AM asking you to see mine.
I see yours .. i just dont agree with it .. and i need the nuts and bolts of it so we can talk about it instead of just throw sweeping terms like "he should be gone" or he "should stay" around .. thats two easy and no one learns anything ..
Quote:
I wanted MO to get another year. You probably remember that. BUT after a few games I wanted him fired, AND after it all came out just how bad he was for this team, I was wrong about giving him another year and admit he should have been fired after the first one.
i just see it different .. he should ahve been given a chance to CHANGE .. obviously he didnt .. and as a general rule i am against mid season change ... and this one served no purpose .. but thats getting off point .. i dotn think that RAC not letting him go is a VALID REASON to fire RAC ..
Quote:
All I'm doing now is rehashing what I've said a bunch of times allready,
first time u done it with me though .. and although i dont agree with U on this .. one of the reasons i even started the discussion with u was to generate some dialogue .. and that we did .. and that was my point ...
RAC may very well be gone after this season ... but IMO he is no wheres near the LAME DUCK guys like U and Vers think he is .. cause if u guys are right ... then Opie is an ass .. and he should have axed him because he doesn;t believe that RAC is the man ..
and if he gets fired after net season ... it best be for the fact he didnt IMPROVE in the areas hes lacking in .. many of witch u pointed out .. u just think there much worse than i do ... i dotn believe the sum of all his mistakes warrants a firing ..
Quote:
If RAC is fired, do you see a guy who's going to get another shot as the HC, or do you see a guy like Butch or Mo who are destined for lower jobs?
I have to see how he handles the next couple years .. well i mean if he were YOUNGER ... its not a fair question .. bOtch and Mo are and were much younger when they left here ... RAC very well may never coach again after he leaves here .. if he were younger .. i have no clue . alot depends on what happens in the net eyar or two ...if bOtch left a year earlier he may very well have been given another shot before his MELTDOWN ... u never know ..
oh and one more thing ..... u said MIshandling players ... well u were WRONG .. he handled KW eactly the way he should have .. he towed the company line after being talked to .. isnt that what we wanted?? and we disagree on Brey .. he hasnt' mishandled it yet ... IMO anyhow ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Hehehe.........Gonna tighten this up as it's nearing the end here.
Quote:
if he can throw lefthanded it couldnt have been much worse .. *L* .. apples and oranges bro ..
Nah, same principal applies. The point was that judging after the fact is how you judge. At least that's the point I THINK I was trying to make. You know how these threads get and how tough it is to keep coherent flow going *L*
Quote:
I agree .. problem is we DIDNT FIX THE PROBLEM by firing him mid season now did we??? ...
Actually, we did.
Consider that had Mo lasted the season only to be fired after it was over, we had a good chance of Davidson being kept as the OC. He got his audition early, the FO didn't like what they saw, and have moved on to the next guy. Had Davidson started out this next year as the OC only to have the FO decide they don't like him, we'd have drug this thing out longer.
In essence, we sped up the process by firing Mo at midseason (problem #1 solved) and in so doing found out that Davidson wasn't the right guy (problem #2 solved) without wasting a year to find that out.
Quote:
and since the season ended for whatever reason he PULLED THE TRIGGER on many more ... regardless of weather Opie forced the moves or not .. RAC did it .. so appearantly hes LEARNED that lesson .... no???
On one hand, you'd think the answer would be yes, he did learn it.
But did he? It was his decision to bring those guys in first place, so you'll forgive me if I don't hold much faith that after 20+ years in the league that he's figured it out now Besides, he waited too long on Mo. If Opie had to come to his rescue, I mean honestly, that's a concern.
Quote:
hes been a WELL RESPECTED DEFENSIVE MIND FOR ALOT OF YEARS BRO ..
I totally agree. I also didn't say he was just window dressing (need a damned big window *L* ) for the defense, but that Bellyache the dictator probably had far more shot-calling rsponsibilities than RAC. However, while I do agree his options become greater with better talent, the lack of even attempted adjustment was a concern to me. I believe that I saw the same defense in the 2nd half that I did in the first, and that the other teams exploited tendancies.
Quote:
AS OUR talent level GOES UP i BELIEVE U WILL SEE A CORRELATION INT HE AMOUNT OF leads we have and keep ...
Well, it better, eh? *L*
Quote:
saying he made no adjustments is like saying the guy that went into the figth with the butter knife should have beaten the guy with the maching gun .. its just not fair to judge who is better ..
Like winning, I'm not judging the final result, just the perceived lack of attempt to adjust. I saw no blitzing, no chances, no gambling, and teams ate us up.
Quote:
come on bro .. TALENT IS what allows u to run different schemes ... different formations .. WE RAN ALOT OF THOSE .. thats just wrong .. I'd see dra lined up on the line sometimes and not others .. I'd see dQ doing the same thing .. wimbely would rush most of the time (as he should) but drop into coverage on others .. we ran CB and safety and LB blitzes all the time ..
If you'd learn how to burn CD's right I might have an avenue to agree with you
No, seriously, I saw far less blitzing and well-timed disguised coverages than I see teams like Pittsburgh and the Jets use. Sadly, I knew where the blitzers were coming from. That means the other teams did as well. Now I know you'll say that's because of talent, but these guys are in the NFL, it doesn't take a pro-bowler to know how to disguise his blitz, or to get the timing right.
Quote:
wow .. guess my memory is really going ... i dont recall that all .. i actually recall the oppossite ... Policy was put out to pasture and bOtch was given COMPLETE CONTROL OVER EVERYTHING .. I saw that as being far from lame Duck status .. actually I see that as more of a dictatorship than Lame duck ..
Ok, I'll meet you half-way: It was a Lame-Dictatorship
Let me see if I can jog your memory. Lerner gave Butch the highy-questionable extension. Remember that? It was a thinly-veiled attempt to give the impression of stability, but everyone knew Butch had to win or he was done.
Quote:
RAC may very well be gone after this season ... but IMO he is no wheres near the LAME DUCK guys like U and Vers think he is .. cause if u guys are right ... then Opie is an ass .. and he should have axed him because he doesn;t believe that RAC is the man ..
I gotta go with the grey-shaded area here (like that's not where I live allready *L*). I believe that Opie still has some faith in RAC. I believe that faith has wavered, but despite that, Opie (and probably Lerner) wants to keep some sembelence of continuity going, just like Lerner did when he gave Butch that extension. That's what's led me to say "wrong move for the right reason." I applaud the effort, though I think we're walking into a Couch/Butch/Mo situation, in that making the move sooner or later does more good than draggin' things out. I'd again note this is strictly opinion on my part, but an opinion that I firmly believe in.
My guy going into the new coach search was Nolan. I pimped him hard. I didn't mind RAC because I wanted a switch to the 3-4, but in retrospect, I don't think he's truly HC material. I think he's just another Dick Lebeau/Dick Jauron/Bud Carson situation where a really great DC makes a very underwhelming HC.
Should Opie have fired RAC? I think so, but he didn't because of belief (he has to still believe in him or he's truly an idiot, and SAvage ain't no idiot) and because of continuity. So it's not cut and dry, which is why they had to talk about things.
This isn't totally the same as Mo, in that I don't see it as cut and dry. I knew Mo had to be fired because mid-season. I don't know that RAC has to. I just believe the odds are greater than he can't get any better as a HC, and that a move sooner is better than draggin' out a bad move and making it more damaging.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum ABJ article: Skilled coaches lost
in staffing shakeups
|
|
