"I just want to know what everyone who thinks he's doing the wrong thing believes he should be compensated. You know, since he's "just a special teams player".
Adam...no doubt he's a Special...Special teams player, but his functions in the TEAM concept is not irreplaceable. We just made a concerted effort in bringing in several ST to make the unit strong and take some pressure of Cribbs in Doing it all. Hey, maybe the kid Jerome Harrison can prove his worth and take over return duties, he has better break away speed. In losing Cribbs the team probably would hurt most in the (Flash/Wildcat) Series which I doubt will make or break this team.
With the new Regime he doesn't have a leg to stand on. They can move on and build their thing without him.
Back to the Randy update. Cribbs (or Team Cribbs) made a statement to NFL Network stating that theoretically the statement put out by the Browns was true. But in principle they were wrong In other words RANDY never made any concrete promises. I do believe he made that call and thanked Cribbs for being a good soldier and that he will be attended to.
I'm sure GeorgeK told Cribbs after the draft they will give it the attention "IT DESERVES" - to Cribbs that means one thing to them it means another. It is not high on their list. Right now they took a small break as they were working relentlessly prior to the draft, but that isn't what CRIBB's wants...me, me is showing up too much in this.
Back to your Question Adam. If I'm running the show what would I do regarding compensation?
1. I'd tell Cribbs he is better off to establish himself with one of the Units on "THIS TEAM" the opportunity is there and after the season negotiate a new contract accordingly. Sure its another - we'll take care of it. But you know what Crap happens. The guys who made the promises to keep GOT FIRED!!
2. If it must be done solely on his merits as a Special Teamer. Then what I would do is Make another extention, 2 more years - bringing it out to 2014. More than likely Cribbs won't see the end of the Contract unless he produces as a Position Player. Of course he will then want another contract, but he would not heed the suggestion of establishing that first.
He would get 1.5 in 2013 as base salary n 2 mil in 2014. But as a signing bonus I would give him 4 million. I would add a roster bonus in March 2011 of another 4 mil in the case he does become a position player. If not - He probably shot his wad as a Return Speicalist and would be released.
But again - few return specialists last - the Special Teamers keep getting Bigger and Faster.
Those siting Hester's stats last season, I don't think he had complete return responsibilities, He came in for special occasions - but I say this with minimum certainty as I do not follow the Bears. But I could have sworn there were games I viewed where he simply didn't take on that role.
JMHO - I'm telling you all, be prepared - If Cribbs continues this attitude, HE'S DONE. He will be the perfect example for M/K in their - Team ONLY concept. And as much as I love Cribbs, he is very, very replaceable!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: Since the re-birth of the Browns, can you name one deserving player who had to live with an "unfair" contract?
Since the re-birth of the Browns can you name deserving players besides Cribbs that significantly out performed their contract?
Most of our players have been either overpaid bums (Stalworth / Shaffer) or high draft picks that are already making big bucks (Winslow / Edwards).
Short of DA, (who got paid) what other player has massively out performed his contract??
All this bad mouthing of Cribbs is crazy. His entire deal is worth less than the bonus money paid to Stalworth, Shaffer, Bentley, Wimbley, and all the other bums that have been shuffled though here.
Cribbs has helped this team more than any of those bums - even being limited to ST.
Is he lying about Lerner promising to take care of his contract?? His agent has made it clear they have the phone records to prove the call took place.
This really just begins to stink of Lerner being dishonest and cheap. And if you don't think agents will bring up Cribbs' situation when they are negotiating other players contracts then you're missing the boat.
Browns: "Here's a fair deal. If you significantly outperform then we'll take care of you"
Agent: "Like you did Cribbs? I don't think so. We need more guaranteed money"
Browns: "You can trust us to treat you fairly"
Agent: "Like you did Cribbs?"
Lerner: "As the owner I give you my assurance that we will treat you fairly even if there's an FO change"
Player : "Just like Cribbs?"
Lerner: "Exactly like Cribbs. Now excuse me I have to go mail $5 million to a DUI Manslaughter WR and $3 m to a LB that can't get a sack"
Quote: Statement from the Browns 05.18.2009 The following statement was released by the Cleveland Browns on Monday afternoon:
"Contrary to published reports this morning, no one from the current Browns organization, including Owner Randy Lerner, has ever made any promises to Josh Cribbs with regard to his contract status."
Why, given the tight lipped actions of this regime so far, did the Browns feel compelled to make this announcement.
It's basically saying,,, The Browns, Cribbs or his agent or the reporters reporting it are liars.. One of them is lying.... I have no idea which...
Someone is bound to be ticked off.. Right or wrong, I think this was a PR blunder.... Should have just kept quiet and handled it internally..
Now there is bound to be some animosity... I don't see how there can't be some. The problem for Cribbs is that he's under contract.. unless he just retires, he's really got no choice but to play.. right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
CalDawg, I am with you. Standout incidents on the field, and he is worth more to us and should be compensated reasonably. But some of this agent crap is myopic and bad for the sport IMO. Did some negotiating for years. Give him a salary boost, toss in endorsements, add as many bloody performance and achievement incentives and leave him eager. If your gold will rust, what will your iron do? Get this done and move on now; this is not worth poison in the waterhole for. I also want to say, Cribbs should shape up too. I do not favor obscene amounts of guaranteed for nothing done money outlays. Like a bad employee who demands a Christmas bonus or gripes that it is unfair because it isn't what they think the company can afford. Some lines in the dirt are better uncrossed. This may be one. Hostility kills you slowly.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Cribbs has been nothing but an upstanding citizen and role model for this team since he has been here. He has done whatever has been asked of him by the organization. Who else saw this coming from a mile away once they announced his contract extension a couple years ago? I thought, "Wow, Savage got one over on you Cribbs." I gave it a year or 2 before this blew up in the organization's face. Cribbs politely asked for more money after outperforming his contract, and they told him to wait 1 year longer. He did so while still producing, keeping his mouth shut, and being an outstanding role model for the other players on the team.
Now, I am of the mind that you can't let players get one over on you and the benefit of the doubt should be with the team. Problem with that is this organization is terrible. They have used all the benefits of doubt that I can possibly muster for them. When I step back and take in this situation, I weigh in what we know about this organization since it's inception, it's horribly managed. Therefore, at least with Cribbs who has proven to me that he is a man of his word for the past 2 years, I will side with this particular player.
I would very much like to see the Browns renegotiate his contract with a decent base/bonus with escalaters that kick in with certain production or playing time on offense or defense (his contract should be nowhere like Hester's). However, I do believe this situation has gone too far at this point and Cribbs will want out, being what I believe to be a man of his word and the Browns calling him a liar. Therefore, I see the Browns as having to play the hardball role in order keep up their image.
Nothing alarmingly greater but still a lot more than has been given for us to believe.
Hopefully this has nothing to do with Snyder and the Redskins. Did Cribbs grow up in Redskin Land???
I'm just going to prepare myself for the worst.
Cribbs will be gone to the Redskins for a 2nd or 3rd rounder 2010. Jerome Harrison will take over the Kickoff Return Duties.
Punt Return Duties goes to EW.
Coverage teams blostered by our Rookies, DV, KM, Carey and Francies. We also got some FAs Ruud, Bowden? Barton? don't forget Leon n a healthy Bell as well as Sorenson.
As mentioned...he I love the kid Cribbs. But he is very replaceable, the team will move on. The fact we had to rely on our Return game or else we had nothing. Was testimony of a team going nowhere. Who knows who will step up and carry us after a Cribbs is gone???
JMHO and if all is good...GREAT
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Cribbs signed his contract, he doesn't do much outside of a few gimmick plays and so on..play without complaining to the media and having dumb holdouts...you'll get comp..not like he doesn't get paid anyway..
So how much trade value do you guys think Cribbs has. I'll be very surprised to see him return kicks for us this year after this turn of events. I also don't believe Randy Lerner has anything to gain from lying about this situation. I think Josh misunderstood him, and heard what he wanted to hear.
This stinks, I really like Cribbs too. I hoped to see him play some D this year.
Cribbs has the most memorable play in recent Browns history.... And he ALMOST lead them to a victory over the Steelers... The Browns need him.. He's an asset to the organization... You invest in your assets.
So how much trade value do you guys think Cribbs has. I'll be very surprised to see him return kicks for us this year after this turn of events.
Sorry, but that is an extreme over-reaction. Cribbs wanted a new contract last year, decided not to holdout. That ended up getting him nothing because the old regime was fired. So, he wants to make sure he gets a new contract this year.
Kokinis knows he has value, he just needs to figure out what that value is worth and likely wanted to wait till June since his staff likely was working overdrive for the draft.
If you don't think these things can be reconciled....see Shaun Rogers:
Rogers happy: Another former disgruntled player, nose tackle Shaun Rogers, is apparently happy now.
Rogers, who accepted his award from the Pro Football Writers of America as the Browns Player of the Year at the Akron Browns Backers banquet Monday night, said he and Mangini have resolved their differences. He said he'll participate in the minicamp this week (today through Thursday, with only Thursday being open to the media).
He said the two men reconciled "just like two grown men do. You speak about it and go to work. I just feel comfortable being here. I'm happy I have a job."
Asked if he got the wrong first impression of Mangini, Rogers said: "That's in the past. I'm not really worried about impressions. I'm more interested in seeing what we're going to work like and how we're going to jell tomorrow."
Rogers had asked the Browns to release him and not pay his $6 million option bonus in March after two perceived snubs by the coach.
Quote: Cribbs has the most memorable play in recent Browns history.... And he ALMOST lead them to a victory over the Steelers
William Green's 64 yard TD run that secured a VICTORY (not an ALMOST victory...god I hate the fact that you even put stock in an ALMOST victory, LOSING IS LOSING) and a playoff berth was not a bigger play than that one?
Cleveland Browns' Josh Cribbs to ask for trade if Browns won't budge by Mary Kay Cabot / Plain Dealer Reporter Tuesday May 19, 2009, 10:56 AM
Plain Dealer photo Josh Cribbs will seek a trade if the Browns won't re-do his contract, according to sources.CLEVELAND -- Browns receiver Josh Cribbs will definitely ask to be traded if the Browns tell him they won't re-do his contract, multiple sources close to the situation said today. As expected, Cribbs did not show up for the first day of voluntary minicamp Tuesday because there's been no "meaningful dialogue'' yet on a new contract.
Cribbs' agent, J.R. Rickert, said the Browns told him they might be willing to open discussions today.
"We exchanged emails Monday night, but there were no proposals made or numbers discussed,'' said Rickert. "We need to have some substantial talks for Josh to show up.''
Cribbs has four years remaining on the six-year, $6.7 million extension he signed in November of 2006 with his previous agents. His base salaries over the next four years are $620,000, $635,000, $650,000 and $790,000. The starting point for Cribbs' side is Devin Hester's four-year, $40 million extension with $15 million guaranteed.
Rickert said he also has phone records to prove that Browns owner Randy Lerner told Cribbs and his representatives that Cribbs would receive a new deal this offseason. Lerner has said he made no such promise.
A source said Cribbs is upset the Browns are denying such statements were made. Cribbs' absence is significant, because he's slated for key roles at strong safety and nickel corner.
Looks to me it's gone too far..this is agent driven..
Quote: Yeah I'm right ..play out your contract and improve what you do in other phases in the game..now what you said(loaded with sarcasm) is lost on me..
I didn't think my point was difficult to understand... but I guess all of it was lost on you, because it was all sarcasm. Especially the "you're right" part.
Quote: And what kind of phone records do they have proving Lerner made a promise? Were they recording the conversations?
Welcome aboard the Fail Boat Mr. Cribbs, if that is the case. I can think of no way to endear yourself more to your employer than to start playing those games.
I don't blame Cribbs for wanting more money. I will blame him if he's not out there busting his tail trying to get wins. That's what I want, wins. I want more wins.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
Quote: Cribbs has four years remaining on the six-year, $6.7 million extension he signed in November of 2006 with his previous agents.
And
Quote: The starting point for Cribbs' side is Devin Hester's four-year, $40 million extension with $15 million guaranteed.
First,, his NEW agent isn't getting anything until a new deal is struck... At least that's the way we've always heard it is.. So is this Agent driving as AD says? Yeah, I think it is..
And second.. Hester isn't worth that contract.. I know it doesn't matter cause that's what he got.. But I don't think Cribbs is worth 40 Mill either.
The 15 Million Guaranteed isn't beyond reality.. it's probably doable. But the 40 mill,,, Nope.. I don't think so.
I'm afraid that if Cribbs and his agent stick to this demand,, he won't be around very long.
To tell the truth,,, I'm pretty sure Cribbs could net us some decent picks in the next draft.... Exactly what Mangini likes...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Cleveland Browns' Josh Cribbs to ask for trade if Browns won't budge by Mary Kay Cabot / Plain Dealer Reporter Tuesday May 19, 2009, 10:56 AM
Plain Dealer photo Josh Cribbs will seek a trade if the Browns won't re-do his contract, according to sources.CLEVELAND -- Browns receiver Josh Cribbs will definitely ask to be traded if the Browns tell him they won't re-do his contract, multiple sources close to the situation said today. As expected, Cribbs did not show up for the first day of voluntary minicamp Tuesday because there's been no "meaningful dialogue'' yet on a new contract.
Cribbs' agent, J.R. Rickert, said the Browns told him they might be willing to open discussions today.
"We exchanged emails Monday night, but there were no proposals made or numbers discussed,'' said Rickert. "We need to have some substantial talks for Josh to show up.''
Cribbs has four years remaining on the six-year, $6.7 million extension he signed in November of 2006 with his previous agents. His base salaries over the next four years are $620,000, $635,000, $650,000 and $790,000. The starting point for Cribbs' side is Devin Hester's four-year, $40 million extension with $15 million guaranteed.
Rickert said he also has phone records to prove that Browns owner Randy Lerner told Cribbs and his representatives that Cribbs would receive a new deal this offseason. Lerner has said he made no such promise.
A source said Cribbs is upset the Browns are denying such statements were made. Cribbs' absence is significant, because he's slated for key roles at strong safety and nickel corner.
Looks to me it's gone too far..this is agent driven..
Personally, I think the Browns should just stand still. His contract as of now isn't backbreaking and we have him wrapped up for a few years. When he holds out and the money is no longer rolling in, I have a strange feeling he'll come crawling back.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
this is a catch 22 IMO ... and its way to early to get your balls in an uproar over this one ..
Cribbs does deserve more money IMO ... especially if they see an expanded role for him on D or as a "wildcat" on O ..
he does not deserve anywhere near what Hester got ... thats just STUPID ... BUT if I was his agent ... thats what I'd be using as my STARTING POINT ... why wouldn't he use it as a STARTING POINT?? .. noting else makes sense ..
I would like to see him here now and saying he will not be showing up at TC w/o the new contract .... thats what i would like .. but thats dangerous also .. cause if he was going to miss one of the two ... I;d rather have him at TC ..
BUT HE NEEDS TO LEARN HIS NEW ROLE(S) ...
I will wait and see how it plays out before LAMBASTING EITHER SIDE .. at this point .. its all just rhetoric and i am sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle as it usually does ..
this whole thing is very frustrating. i get that contracts are typically in the club's favor, so a player needs to grab all the cash he can because of issues like injuries, but cribbs signed a long extension and he was very happy to do so before. he may have outperformed it but simply put, there are others (d'qwell jackson and the rookies) who need to be addressed ahead of him. honestly, i don't even know if cribbs outperformed the contract. he got it for being a great special teams player right? that's still what he is right now.
cribbs is hurting himself because he doesn't see that mangini is trying to HELP him drive up his value by giving him new opportunities. under the old staff, he was pigeon-holed into special teams with the occasional wide receiver. if it weren't for miami's success, i doubt he would've seen many snaps in a flash/wildcat situation. mangini is giving cribbs the opportunity to be a playmaker on defense as well and by missing the time, he's screwing himself. no regime comes in and starts handing extensions to hold-over players, let alone ones with 4 years left on his contract.
like others said, this is all agent-driven and unfortunately, a good agent would be telling cribbs exactly what we've been saying, in short: "look, it sucks the last group made a promise that won't happen but no new staff is going to come in and just give you an extension. your best bet is to play hard this season, carve out roles on ST, offense, and defense. they'll take care of you and probably give you more than what you expect right now because they'll know that you're one of 'their' guys."
I agree, he probably does deserve more money, but this isn't the best way to go about doing that....at least at this point.
In the end I would be surprised if he sat out the season,, and that is what he would have to do if I was in charge.
I would issue a statement that he is free to do what he wants, but for the next 4 years, he is the PROPERTY(just to rub it in a bit) of the Cleveland Browns and that isn't going to change.
If I really wanted to rub it in, I would issue a statement saying that as far as we are concerned, Cribbs can hold out all 4 years because with as little as we had invested in him, we already got our money's worth.
( I wouldn't really do that....that would hurt if I wanted to go ahead and give him a little more)
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: Cribbs has the most memorable play in recent Browns history.... And he ALMOST lead them to a victory over the Steelers
William Green's 64 yard TD run that secured a VICTORY (not an ALMOST victory...god I hate the fact that you even put stock in an ALMOST victory, LOSING IS LOSING) and a playoff berth was not a bigger play than that one?
I guess Steelers games are not important... not exciting.. not meaningful to true Browns fans... YES I PUT STOCK IN THAT!!! I'm not comparing plays by the way... You decided to do that..
This is a Cribbs thread... and He made an amazing play... One that I will remember for a very long time.. It put the Browns up.. but unfortunately the Steelers scored again..
Quote: Ditto. No special teamer deserves that much.
Keep in mind that if Romeo Crennel had been calling the shots Dion Sanders would have been limited to ST and Ladanian Tomlinson would be backing up Jamal Lewis.
We've all seen what he can do. He's improved year after year. Our new FO plans to use him on defense, offense, wildcat, and ST.
If he was a free agent what would a player be worth that is:
1) Simply the #1 kick / punt returner in the NFL 2) A defensive ST Hawk that is ALWAYS making great plays 3) Ideal for the wildcat 4) Able to play defense 5) Able to line up at WR 6) A great #3 / emergency QB
Crennel's inability to get the ball to his talented players is hardly a reason to ignore the talent that Cribbs has.
Labeling him "just a ST player" isn't just unfair, it's tremendously short sighted.
I love Cribbs....but that was definitely way too much on him.
First, he's not a great punt returner (though certainly above average)...his best attributes are kick returns and kick coverage.
noone knows if he is able to play defense...he hasn't done it yet.
if he was a great #3QB, then we wouldn't have had such troubles scoring the last few game last year (and remember that the #3 QB isn't even on the active roster on gamedays).
if he was on the open market...he probably gets $5-6mil/year. but, since he took the security of a long term deal, we don't have to pay him that much because he can't go get that from another team.
Quote: Labeling him "just a ST player" isn't just unfair, it's tremendously short sighted.
No, until he PROVES that he can do those things on the field, he is still JUST a Special Teamer. Granted, he is an Elite Special Teamer, but that is all he is, still.
He is NOT a WR, and from what I've seen, he won't be. They PLAN to TRY him on Defense.... and I think we all know a half dozen sayings about the folly of counting heavily on "plans". It means absolutely NOTHING for his negotiations because that is precisely what he has done on Defense until he actually gets out there and can show that he can do it at a high level.... which he can't do if he isn't showing up.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Quote: No, until he PROVES that he can do those things on the field, he is still JUST a Special Teamer. Granted, he is an Elite Special Teamer, but that is all he is, still.
He is NOT a WR, and from what I've seen, he won't be. They PLAN to TRY him on Defense.... and I think we all know a half dozen sayings about the folly of counting heavily on "plans". It means absolutely NOTHING for his negotiations because that is precisely what he has done on Defense until he actually gets out there and can show that he can do it at a high level.... which he can't do if he isn't showing up.
I felt it necessary to quote this whole thing in case anyone missed it. Right on PPE.
I would issue a statement that he is free to do what he wants, but for the next 4 years, he is the PROPERTY(just to rub it in a bit) of the Cleveland Browns and that isn't going to change.
If I really wanted to rub it in, I would issue a statement saying that as far as we are concerned, Cribbs can hold out all 4 years because with as little as we had invested in him, we already got our money's worth.
I agree with this sentiment. If the idiot agent wants to start with Hester money, then we start with this approach. He's proven nothing outside of ST play to this point and the changes coming in the ST rules work against him being as good as he's been up to now.
If Cribbs would just wait until next year to get cocky he might have an argument, today, he can be replaced and watch the NFL on Sunday ticket this season.
I'm very comfie on the fence ... when its the right place to be ....
I'm all for an "enhanced" contract this year ... based on snaps on O and D and any achievements he may garner ...
IF the part about him having a "key" role at SS and Nickle corner is true .. he should get more money than his ST's contact is paying him now ...
this guy was a HUGE REASON we won so many games in 07 ... we seemed to start every drive at our 40 or better .. and thats HUGE ... do not UNDERESTIMATE that ...
PLUS he is a GREAT PLAYER ON OUR COVERAGE UNITS ...
he deserves more money ... or at least a shot at it depending on how big his ROLE ON O or D expands ....
If our face of the franchise or best player is our kick & returner who touches the ball when the other team scores & kicks off, whats that saying about the rest of our team. ...just a thought. Most Kick returners who recieved big money or were considered one of the best players on the team also played DB or WR. I know not all but what 85% were.
Not saying he shouldn't get a raise, but also saying we shouldnt break the bank on him. I like Cribbs and I hope everything works itself out, but nobody is bigger than the team, we need everybody to understand thier role, where they fit on this team and play as a team, play thier part. nobody is bigger than the Cleveland Browns...nobody, players who thought they were something have been long gone and some forgotten, some even went on to find out the grass isnt always greener.
In other words RANDY never made any concrete promises. I do believe he made that call and thanked Cribbs for being a good soldier and that he will be attended to.
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YES I PUT STOCK IN THAT!!! I'm not comparing plays by the way... You decided to do that.. 
You have been going to the Roger Brown school of journalism as of late 
