|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341 |
Quote:
this guy was a HUGE REASON we won so many games in 07 ... we seemed to start every drive at our 40 or better .. and thats HUGE ... do not UNDERESTIMATE that ...
Yes. I tried pointing that out last night on this thread... how valuable he is on ST. Fielding a kickoff at the goal line and taking it to mid-field is a huge play.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
*Disclaimer* I like Cribbs a lot and I hope he remains with this team. And, I think he is worth more than he is getting paid (how much more, I don't know).
That being said, he did have a great year in 2007. But where was he in 2008? If he is truly this "end all-be all" of special teamers, then why didn't he perform the same way in 2008?
Now, his punt and kickoff coverage is superb. I do not sell him short at all on that. But his returns were way down last year. Now, I know there are other factors that go into his returns that are outside his control, but what did he do when the team was down that makes him worth more money?
Just because he didn't complain doesn't make him automatically eligible for a raise. Heck, with that logic, Andra Davis should be the highest paid player in league history.
When it comes down to it, look at what he truly is. He is a very good ST player, but he hasn't proven he is more than that. He should get paid like a very good ST player, but he hasn't proven he should get paid more than that. The question becomes, what is a very good ST player worth salary-wise?
Heck, what he's making now might be it. Maybe he's worth more, but if he's looking for some ungodly Hester numbers, he's dreaming.
Just because Chicago overpaid for a guy doesn't mean we have to as well.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Quote:
Just because Chicago overpaid for a guy doesn't mean we have to as well.
Bingo......Well said....thats what I've been meaning to say but couldnt find the words......  ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Since we also have to remember there are 10 other guys on the field at the same time, how did we do with him in the line up last year?
In kick return average, we were just that, average. 22.6 yards per return and 19th overall.
In 20+ returns last year we were 24th overall with 36 returns for 20+ yards.
In 40+ we jumped all the way into a tie for 12th with 4 returns netting more than 40 yards. The Bears with Hester garnered the top prize with 11 netting more than 40.
We all love his heart and generally speaking a really good guy but to start with Hester money ideas and demand a trade if we don't give him a new contract, he is easily replaceable.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681 |
I agree. If we expand his role and he takes to it, he does deserve more cash.
To bad not being here is going to hurt his chances.
There are legit times to hold out, and now is about the worst time imaginable as I see it.....shrug
I think the guy is blowing it to be honest.
Show the team you can take the expanded role....THEN hold out...I see that.
Dumb
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
if he was on the open market...he probably gets $5-6mil/year. but, since he took the security of a long term deal, we don't have to pay him that much because he can't go get that from another team.
In reality, he can go get paid by another team. If he holds out we are extremely unlikely to keep him on the 53 man roster all year. Someone will offer a 3rd for him an off he goes to a new contract and team.
It would make more sense to admit that he's outperformed his contract and pay him something fair (somewhere between market and existing contract). Not as much as he wants; but, not so little that he's underpaid.
Fairness can't be undervalued in contract negotiations.
I can't tell you how many times I've diffused a problem simply by being fair. It's how you build customer and team loyalty.
Without Cribbs the field gets 20 yards longer on every kick. Without Cribbs the other team's field gets 20 yards shorter.
If we're going to ask BQ to win games with JL, BE, and two rookie WR's then field possesion is going to be absolutely critical.
And there isn't another player on the team that can shift the momemtum of the game as quick as Cribbs. How many times has the opposition slugged their way down the field on a 10+ play drive only to see Cribbs run the kickoff all the way back to their 30?
Some players you overpay because they bring more than shows up on paper. Cribbs is that guy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
We've seen what happens to a lot of our players when they hold out..they get injured early on..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just because Chicago overpaid for a guy doesn't mean we have to as well.
Bingo......Well said....thats what I've been meaning to say but couldnt find the words...... ..
Actually that is exactly why you have to pay more.....and why the NFL needs to straighten out the pay scales.
Perfect example of this is Derrick Dockery....Guy signs a 7 year 49 mill contract two years ago....even though he is one of the league leaders in false starts year in and year out...and never has made a pro bowl. Now the Steelers have G Alan Faneca going....whats the deal? This guy gets 50mill? and you are offering me what? Thats an insult...I am a much better player...and need to be paid more.....Here comes the Jets....they will pay it....1 year later Dockery is cut...as the Bills don't want to pay a guy of his talent all that money...So even though Dockery never made anywhere close to that 50 mill contract...he had it long enough to mess up every NFL "top" G signing since then.
Matt Stafford just got what..6 years 72 mill??? Now if he instantly lights up and becomes the next Peyton Manning....in 2 year...thats one thing.....but if he becomes the next Akili Smith......then you have guys like Derek Anderson going...I have been to the Pro Bowl? Guys like Rex Grossman saying I was a Super Bowl QB??? How can he be making more than me?.
We are not even talking about the ELITE NFL...just average guys who have had some success.
Take Cribbs.....is he Devon Hester...nope....but considering Hester signed what....a 4 year deal worth around 30 mill......How much of Hester is he? is he Half of Hester? 4 years 15 mill? I dont know......But I do know...that even if the Browns are not willing to pay 15 mill for Half a Hester.....there is a team out there that is.....and thats why the Browns will have to eventually pay him...if they want to keep him.
Browns can make him stay in Cleveland for now...but they can't make him happy without that $$$ and as we have seen many times before....an unhappy player...can often be a BIG CANCER behind the scenes.
HACK
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/SteelHack/hackfun.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Quote:
Without Cribbs the field gets 20 yards longer on every kick. Without Cribbs the other team's field gets 20 yards shorter.
If we're going to ask BQ to win games with JL, BE, and two rookie WR's then field possesion is going to be absolutely critical.
So we have to pay Cribbs more, because these guys cant do thier jobs better, arnt they getting pretty if not better money than cribbs ?. Maybe we should tell them hey, Cribbs wants more money & since he saves you guys 20 yards, were taking 20% from you guys and giving it to cribbs. Sorry that argument about field position dosent buy it with me, I understand what your saying and your right, having cribbs does make it easier, but even without him, we pay others players to score, no matter how far.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341 |
Quote:
Maybe he's worth more, but if he's looking for some ungodly Hester numbers, he's dreaming.
I agree totally. And I don't know why he tailed off last year... he still was electric, dangerous every time he touched the ball.
gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
j/c Quote:
The Josh Cribbs drama continues in Cleveland.
With both sides engaged in a high stakes exercise in the phrases “‘fraid not” and “‘fraid so” as to whether owner Randy Lerner promised to adjust Cribbs’ contract, the reality is that the Browns seem to be prepared to squat on the contract.
If so, Cribbs will be asking for his ticket out.
According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Cribbs will request a trade if the team ultimately refuses to re-do his deal.
Of course, requesting a trade and getting one are two different things, as Anquan Boldin could explain.
The bigger problem here is that Cribbs’ previous representative negotiated a long-term deal before Cribbs became one of the best kick returners in the game. And so the player is now stuck with base salaries of $620,000, $635,000, $650,000, and $790,000 over the next four seasons.
One source called the contract “criminally negligent.” Regardless of the label that’s applied, this isn’t a case of a good deal being overcome by contracts paid to other players. Given the base salaries, the deal wasn’t a good one to begin with, providing base salaries that never cross into seven figures.
Still, the Browns can choose not to fix the situation, and to force Cribbs to play for them, or play for no one.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/19/absent-a-new-deal-cribbs-will-request-a-trade/
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Quote:
Without Cribbs the field gets 20 yards longer on every kick. Without Cribbs the other team's field gets 20 yards shorter.
I'd say 2 yards or so would be a lot more accurate, on average. That is still significant.
I think Cribbs is underpaid for what he does. But how do you redo the deal so it makes sense for both sides? That is the question. Just 'giving' him more money without something in return is out of the question, because there is no way the new FO wants to deal like that. And if Hester's contract is truly the starting point, I think Cribbs is going to be miserable for a long time. He has absolutely no leverage seeing as how he is signed for 4 more years, and any act of good faith he might get is going to be lost if he skips any type of camp/workout/activity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
It would make more sense to admit that he's outperformed his contract and pay him something fair (somewhere between market and existing contract).
yes, exactly. i agree with that.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,622
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,622 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
I think they made the statement to reassure the fanbase that they are not a-holes... might have backfired...
Well, in my eyes, it was a knee jerk reaction and it resulted in a PR Blunder..
Truth be told, Cribbs is worth more money... How much,, I really don't know, but more.
I hope they reach some agreement...
Last edited by Damanshot; 05/19/09 05:49 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
Quote:
Quote:
The starting point for Cribbs' side is Devin Hester's four-year, $40 million extension with $15 million guaranteed.
Ok, I was defending him...but he just lost me (hopefully that is just the agent talking with that and Cribbs is seeking something more reasonable).
And like I said.......
People were upset that some were "bad mouthing?" I wasn't bad mouthing, just expressing my disappointment in the way he was going about it. Now I may up my disappointment to being a bit p'd off.
We knew what was coming, others just think Josh is a good guy and bleeds Brown and Orange. There's no Brown and Orange. The only color he sees is green. Gone are the days were most players do what it's good for the team- it's about what's good for their pocketbooks.
Like I said, I didn't like the way he was handling it, saw where it was going, and now there's talk of him demanding a trade. I like the guy, but don't like him that much.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
That being said, he did have a great year in 2007. But where was he in 2008? If he is truly this "end all-be all" of special teamers, then why didn't he perform the same way in 2008?
He was a stud last year. As great of a KR/PR as he is, he's an even better cover guy on both punts and kicks.
As to why his production modestly dropped off in terms of KR yardage, we lost our special teams coach, Chaun Thompson, and the other really good ST LB we had. Those each went a long way to hurting our return game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Quote:
The only color he sees is green. Gone are the days were most players do what it's good for the team- it's about what's good for their pocketbooks.
And rightfully so... it IS a business afterall, and they have to get what they can while they can, and nobody can fault them for that. Rah rah and loyalty is for the fans and the players that have made their big money.... the rest still have to get their big money because this is their one shot to maximize everything.
But there is also a thing called Perspective, and without the proper perspective, what he *thinks* he's worth is going to be WAY off from what he actually *IS* worth... and this is where egos and feelings get crushed and people start demanding trades... yada, yada yada.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681 |
Quote:
Quote:
if he was on the open market...he probably gets $5-6mil/year. but, since he took the security of a long term deal, we don't have to pay him that much because he can't go get that from another team.
In reality, he can go get paid by another team. If he holds out we are extremely unlikely to keep him on the 53 man roster all year. Someone will offer a 3rd for him an off he goes to a new contract and team.
It would make more sense to admit that he's outperformed his contract and pay him something fair (somewhere between market and existing contract). Not as much as he wants; but, not so little that he's underpaid.
Fairness can't be undervalued in contract negotiations.
I can't tell you how many times I've diffused a problem simply by being fair. It's how you build customer and team loyalty.
Without Cribbs the field gets 20 yards longer on every kick. Without Cribbs the other team's field gets 20 yards shorter.
If we're going to ask BQ to win games with JL, BE, and two rookie WR's then field possesion is going to be absolutely critical.
And there isn't another player on the team that can shift the momemtum of the game as quick as Cribbs. How many times has the opposition slugged their way down the field on a 10+ play drive only to see Cribbs run the kickoff all the way back to their 30?
Some players you overpay because they bring more than shows up on paper. Cribbs is that guy.
I don't know.....you may be right but I think there is a mechanism to keep players who don't report without keeping them on the roster.......maybe somebody knows.....if you don't.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
There are a few players who put the team first, restructure and save the team a little money in order to free up space and help the team get better. Usually, we don't hear much about them, it's guys like Winslow, Boldin, Cribbs, etc. that we hear about. And yeah, this job only will take them so far- they have to retire much sooner than another profession. Some of these guys make more money in a year than I'll see in my lifetime. Which is good for them and all, but when they think they deserve even more, that's where I have a problem. If they can't save money and make it last, it's not my problem. When they start pulling the "I have to feed my family" crap, that's where I draw the line. Guys sitting around in strip clubs throwing hundred dollar bills around in the air- is this what they need bigger contracts for? Hold out so they can "make it rain?" Please. Cribbs doesn't make nearly as much as a lot of these players. I agree that he can probably have a solid argument for a better contract. But the problem I have with it is this: 1. The way he and/or his agent is going about it 2. And what he thinks he's worth. I KNEW where this was going, and anybody who didn't believe it was in denial. Sorry, he is nowhere near Hester money. And the talk of him moving to D and deserving more is fine- IF HE INDEED MAKES IT ON D AND DOES IT WELL. We don't even know what will happen there. I'm not giving him more money because he can POSSIBLY play defense, which he's never done, and then don't even know if he'll do well or let his ST play suffer. Hester's contract is their starting point?  If that's what it's going take, goodbye, Josh.
Last edited by Dawgpound017; 05/19/09 08:08 PM.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe he's worth more, but if he's looking for some ungodly Hester numbers, he's dreaming.
I agree totally. And I don't know why he tailed off last year... he still was electric, dangerous every time he touched the ball.
Did everyone forget the high ankle sprain he suffered against the Giants in the preseason game (same one Anderson got his concussion in), which he played on all season?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
okay...
so is this Cribbs situation the reason why there are no new videos posted yet of the first day of voluntary OTA's?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
Toad, I agree with almost everything you ever say, except this. Josh's value to this team is more than just "a special teamer." he's the best special teamer we've had, ever. He has had more of an impact on our team the past two years than just about anyone else.
Secondly, you know and I know and everyone knows that contracts in the NFL are not meant to be completed. The team knows it going in and the player knows it going in. If you underperform your contract, you take a cut or you are cut. If you overperform, it gets reworked. That's the system that's in place, whether we like it or not.
Third, the guy has seriously been the ultimate teammate. I know that only goes so far, but he's talented too. Even if it's only as a special teamer. He's the best special teamer in the league. I wouldn't trade him for anyone, hester included, on special teams. You talk about him like he's Kris Griffin.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 42
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 42 |
What I don't understand is why players start holding out before the season starts so much. In my mind it'd be beter to show up to camp and work your butt off to maximize your value - of course you make it clear that you think you deserve a raise, but wait till the season starts to sit out...
By then they'd have their plans set for you, and you'd be completely up to speed as well so that by sitting out you do the most possible damage.
Ruckaholics Anonymous: We can help.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
Maybe b/c it would be a PR nightmare? Even Cribbs, as liked as he is would get raked over the coals if he held our season hostage. I'd rather he do it now I suppose. I think a deal will be done before the seasonn though, just a hunch. My guess is 2 mill per year for 3 years, and 2 million bonus.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
I wouldn't trade him for anyone, hester included, on special teams. You talk about him like he's Kris Griffin.
Well said
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 218
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 218 |
Who did not attend Camp today?
I saw the article on Edwards attending, but I have yet to see anything that confirms Cribbs has Skipped the Camp yet or the Browns even give remotely an idea to what they plan to do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267 |
Maybe FSN Ohio will boost his Josh's Cribbs salary and he can moonlight with the Browns. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
Josh,
We could have finished last without you......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
Agreed, i really like having Cribbs on the team, but i dont think that he deserves a new contract. hell he just signed that extension not too long ago if it was good enough then it should be good enough now. i think he should honor his current deal and work his butt of to show he deserves something better when this on is up...if not bring northcutt back and sign him cheap to return kicks, and punts...at least his hands are better than Cribbs' that he can play WR as well
#brownsgoodkarma
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"Who did not attend Camp today?"
think it was two...Cribbs and Stallworth.
Cribbs didn't show...it would have been splashed everywhere. As for not showing it was ANNOUNCED we don't need confirmation of the announced no show to make it real.
Turk...I'm pretty sure the last day is open to the media and there will be a lot of film of Mini-Camp.
I don't see Cribbs have any bearing on PR videos.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Just clicking
Did anyone notice that the comment by the browns that was up on the site about not promising Cribbs anything has disappeared?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
What I don't understand is why players start holding out before the season starts so much. In my mind it'd be beter to show up to camp and work your butt off to maximize your value - of course you make it clear that you think you deserve a raise, but wait till the season starts to sit out...
By then they'd have their plans set for you, and you'd be completely up to speed as well so that by sitting out you do the most possible damage.
Because U do not get paid until the season starts ... so it would cost u money also ...
that is why so many holdouts always end the week before trhe season starts ... see Jason Peters from the Jills last year as the latest example ...
the teams can do didly for missing OTA's ... they can fine u for missing mandatory stuff like training camp .. but those fines pale in comparision to missing a game check ....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Cleveland kick returner Josh Cribbs is in the news this week over a simmering contract dispute with the Browns. Last summer, Bears Pro Bowl kick return specialist Devin Hester cashed in, but are these two players similar? Today, we discuss the Cribbs situation and decide if he should get a new deal.
The Situation
According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Cribbs wants a new deal or he will ask for a trade.
Sound familiar? It should because we see this every offseason in multiple NFL cities. The player “holdout” usually happens during OTAs — which are non-mandatory sessions — and continues through the summer until one side blinks and everything is resolved.
But who should blink in this situation? The Plain Dealer reports that Cribbs and his agent want a deal similar to the one given to Chicago’s Hester, which is four years, $40 million and $15 million is guarantees.
Am I missing something here?
Yes, they’re both electric when they get the ball in their hands on special teams, but the reason the Bears paid Hester that big coin is obvious. He’s their No. 1 wide receiver — no questions asked. Sure, he was a “gadget guy” just like Cribbs, a player you could use sparingly on offense in creative formations to get the ball in favorable match-ups. Not much different than the wildcat attack that has taken the league by storm.
But you don’t pay “gadget guys” $40 million, and that’s why Hester is now the Bears’ main target for new quarterback Jay Cutler.
Cribbs, on the other hand, is not. Let’s examine it.
Cribbs’ Role
According to reports out of Cleveland, the Browns see Cribbs — in addition to his role on special teams — as an extra defensive back, a player they can use in nickel situations and maybe occasionally at safety, although we have no idea of how that will transpire. Production as a defensive back? Maybe, but we don’t know.
I’m sorry, folks, but safeties, nickel corners and kick returners don’t earn $40 million.
That’s just a fact of the league. I can see the Browns paying Cribbs to be a guy who can play both ways — and return kicks — but to actually believe that he deserves the type of money that Hester does is ludicrous. And that’s something we should all agree on.
I almost always take the players’ side when it comes to negotiations, and I believe that players can “outplay” their current contracts, but I still have a reasonable sense of what positions make the most cash. Wide receiver is one of them, and yes, we can argue that Hester is overpaid for his production at wide receiver. But that doesn’t hide the fact that he’s still the No. 1 guy in Chicago — and Cribbs is still a guy without a position on the football field.
Cribbs is a valuable member of the Browns and a guy they might not be able to afford to lose in the grand scheme of the 2009 season. But to expect to get Hester-type money after catching two passes for 18 yards in the ’08 season?
That isn’t going to get it done.
What Should the Browns Do?
Nothing really because they’ve been down this road before.
In 2006, the Browns did Cribbs a favor by signing him to a six-year extension for $6.7 million.
Why should they do it again? That type of money for a special teams guy is a pretty fair deal in my mind. In fact, they’re overpaying for a special teams guy.
I know I will hear it because Cribbs is special, he’s multi-talented and he’s now going to play some defense (which is a leap of faith), but it still doesn’t ignore the fact that he doesn’t play an actual position on the Browns.
Players like Cribbs are hard to get on the field outside of the kicking game. Trust me, if the Browns thought Cribbs had the ability to play a No. 1 or even a No.2 wide receiver, they would have done exactly what Chicago did — announce publicly that he’s their main option on offense.
But they didn’t. They drafted WRs Brian Robiskie of Ohio State and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia on the first day of the NFL Draft. The Browns knew then that Cribbs wasn’t the answer at WR, and now they’re scrambling to find a position for him.
And that’s why this entire situation has me scratching my head. Why Cribbs and his agent suddenly think he should earn top dollar in this league is beyond me, and if I were the Browns, I wouldn’t budge.
They already gave Cribbs a deal to return kicks in 2006. Has he done anything to change that?
I don’t see it.
National Football Post
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Thanks for the read. Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Quote:
In 2006, the Browns did Cribbs a favor by signing him to a six-year extension for $6.7 million.
Why should they do it again? That type of money for a special teams guy is a pretty fair deal in my mind. In fact, they’re overpaying for a special teams guy.
They did him a favor? Or did they want to keep the guy that has done pretty well for them as a UDFA? Favor is the WRONG word. If they didn't give him an extension, they would have lost out on a great player.
Quote:
Players like Cribbs are hard to get on the field outside of the kicking game. Trust me, if the Browns thought Cribbs had the ability to play a No. 1 or even a No.2 wide receiver, they would have done exactly what Chicago did — announce publicly that he’s their main option on offense.
But they didn’t. They drafted WRs Brian Robiskie of Ohio State and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia on the first day of the NFL Draft. The Browns knew then that Cribbs wasn’t the answer at WR, and now they’re scrambling to find a position for him.
And that’s why this entire situation has me scratching my head. Why Cribbs and his agent suddenly think he should earn top dollar in this league is beyond me, and if I were the Browns, I wouldn’t budge.
They already gave Cribbs a deal to return kicks in 2006. Has he done anything to change that?
I don’t see it.
The guy is a Pro Bowler.... and if this writer knew anything about Cribbs... The regime who was here before thought it would be too much to throw Cribbs in as a primary wideout. As a result, he got limited time at WR.
Cribbs is smart... As soon as Mangini came in, Cribbs came to him to see what type of role they would have for him... PR, KR, Safety, DB, WR.... So he says to himself, "Man... I'm going to be on the field a lot. And be given more of an opportunity to help my team than before. I wanted a new contract last year, and I was only doing PR, KR, and WR... I still want a new contract.. And now I'm going to be playing defense too... That should be equal to even more money right?"
He wanted to see what he would be doing... Mangini told him.. And he wants to get negotiate a contract now b/c of all that is going to be asked of him. I can't really blame him... If he is on the field a majority of the game.. He risks his health. And we all know how teams treat you when you get hurt.... Like dung...
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
Quote:
They did him a favor? Or did they want to keep the guy that has done pretty well for them as a UDFA? Favor is the WRONG word. If they didn't give him an extension, they would have lost out on a great player.
i'd argue that they did him a favor when they offered the contract extension but i'd also argue they probably took advantage of cribb's situation. the extension happened before the pro bowl so the guy was glad he was sticking to the team and the team used that to lock him up for 7 years, which is crazy. the number of years is more than the number of millions in his deal!
Quote:
The guy is a Pro Bowler.... and if this writer knew anything about Cribbs... The regime who was here before thought it would be too much to throw Cribbs in as a primary wideout. As a result, he got limited time at WR.
hester was a pro bowler his rookie year. it wasn't until the bears decided to change him from cb to wr and then to make him their premiere wr that he got his extension.
Quote:
Cribbs is smart... As soon as Mangini came in, Cribbs came to him to see what type of role they would have for him... PR, KR, Safety, DB, WR.... So he says to himself, "Man... I'm going to be on the field a lot. And be given more of an opportunity to help my team than before. I wanted a new contract last year, and I was only doing PR, KR, and WR... I still want a new contract.. And now I'm going to be playing defense too... That should be equal to even more money right?"
that's the right way to think BUT, he hasn't done anything as a safety or db yet. like i said in my previous post, mangini is helping cribbs because he's opening new doors of opportunities for him. cribbs is closing them by holding out. he needs to get to work, play well, and get a bigger extension this year. you don't get the raise until you prove you can do the work, that's life.
Quote:
He wanted to see what he would be doing... Mangini told him.. And he wants to get negotiate a contract now b/c of all that is going to be asked of him. I can't really blame him... If he is on the field a majority of the game.. He risks his health. And we all know how teams treat you when you get hurt.... Like dung...
it seems to me the best solution, a good common ground, will be to guarantee most or all of his current contract. then, should cribbs have a good year, give him a new contract. i'd think both should sides would be happy with that, with exception to the new agents who probably wouldn't see any money from that. who knows, maybe it was proposed and rejected for that reason.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Yup. There is talk of safety and a bigger role on offense, but he needs to show what he can do before getting the big contract. Getting a chance to play safety and being a good safety are 2 different things. Don't get paid on what you are going to try, get paid for what you can do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Does anyone have any doubt that Cribbs cannot do well at these new positions that he is being introduced too?
I think he can do well...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
It's pretty sad to me to see how Browns fans turn on our best players.
As most people know from my previous stances on various issues I'm usually in the corner with the players and this case is no exception.
Cribbs made a SIZEABLE blunder signing that contract that his agent and Phil Savage put together. I remember Savage almost chuckling about it when he announced it during a press conference.
Now he's in the prime of his career and he ideally would be maximizing his income in these next 3-5 years. What he's looking at is a bottom 30% of the roster deal when he's an integral player.
Do I believe that Lerner promised to take care of him? I do.
There's no reason to bring it up and tell the press you have the phone records to prove it if you don't.
Unfortunately we're stuck with Lerner, an absentee owner who was willed the franchise, who seems to care far more about Aston Villa than the Browns. Until ownership changes we're probably going to have major issues on and off until we have ownership that is fully committed to this endeavor.
Ultimately I hope we redo Cribbs contract in a fair manner. It only helps us. We have 20M in cap room. But we shall see.
I am on Cribbs side of the fence here.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cribbs To Skip First 'Voluntary'
Minicamp
|
|
