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Legend
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How do you all find this stuff? lol...
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That's an interesting comparison !
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All Pro
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I just show an ESPN scroll that said...
Last edited by Referee6; 05/22/09 05:42 PM.
The Mammal
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We need to take care of Phil.....If anybody has earned thier money it's Phil, 10 years on this team, he's been thru the Tim Couch's, Jeff Garcia's, god only knows how many head coachs, ect. Phil has been a steady on a team of wanna be's & losers and yet he's still here winning games for us.
TAKE CARE OF PHIL.
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These are the 2008 cap hits....
Cribbs, Joshua WR 1,045,000
Dawson, Phil K 1,470,000
If we're going to take care of Phil don't you think it would be fair to at least get Josh up to what Phil makes as isn't he another special teamer...
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Well, Phil scored 108 points for us in 2008, Josh scored 18 points for us.
89% of the time Phil had an opportunity to score, he did.
3% of the time Josh had an opportunity to score, he did.
I'm not saying we shouldn't toss the 400 grand at Cribbs as a bone for 2009 but comparing him to our kicker is a bit silly. I certainly wouldn't pay him more than Dawson at this point.
#GMSTRONG
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You ever watch the kick coverage? Cribbs made damn near every tackle last year.
I don't recall seeing Phil anywhere around any of the returners. Both guys are valuable. Pay them.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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That just reinforces the same point, the comparison is silly.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
If we're going to take care of Phil don't you think it would be fair to at least get Josh up to what Phil makes as isn't he another special teamer...
As i've siad in the past..."& I know you guys dont keep track of my opinons"  So I'll give it again
Cribbs needs a new contract, not in the range of a Hester but he deserves more than he's getting nothing against that, I am against holding out, & I sure hope Phil dosent do that.
But from the Browns point of view, they cant give everybody a new contract when the cry or hold out, they have to draw the line somewhere, & I cant blame them either for saying look you signed it you honor it, it was ok 2 years ago, & we didnt take money away when you played poorly so were not giving more when you play better.
Also where in the heck did the Phrase "Out played thier contract " come from that is totally BS from some agent, what exactly does it mean, because if they get more money for out playing their contract do they give up money for underplaying thier contract.
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Maybe they should just change the phrase to "exceeded expectations"? 
#GMSTRONG
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There is no way Dawson should be making more than Cribbs...
PERIOD.
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Quote:
Well, Phil scored 108 points for us in 2008, Josh scored 18 points for us.
89% of the time Phil had an opportunity to score, he did.
3% of the time Josh had an opportunity to score, he did.
I'm not saying we shouldn't toss the 400 grand at Cribbs as a bone for 2009 but comparing him to our kicker is a bit silly. I certainly wouldn't pay him more than Dawson at this point.
that is the point I was trying to make awhile back. Cribbs breaks a long KR maybe 3 or 4 times a year.
Maybe the new FO just wants to make it clear that they are the boss and not the players. If I was the FO I would tell Cribbs that the starting point of any negotiations is fulfilling the obligations of your current contract. After you get onto the practice field then we can bargain.
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Also, what the hell is Dawson going to do at the voluntary minicamps? It isn't like he has to learn a whole new playbook.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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He could aid the coaches by kicking the butts of the players not playing hard.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Well, Phil scored 108 points for us in 2008, Josh scored 18 points for us.
89% of the time Phil had an opportunity to score, he did.
3% of the time Josh had an opportunity to score, he did.
I'm not saying we shouldn't toss the 400 grand at Cribbs as a bone for 2009 but comparing him to our kicker is a bit silly. I certainly wouldn't pay him more than Dawson at this point.
I hope you are joking. What do you expect? Do you believe Cribbs should return a majority of the kicks and punts for touchdowns? You are actually comparing his oppurtunities to score to Dawson's? That is probably the most lopsided, apples-to-oranges, silliest comparison I have ever seen.
Cribbs is, in my opinion, underpaid. Throw him a bone. If anyone deserves a bonus or a new contract on this team, it's him.
On a somewhat unrelated note, here's what Turk said a few pages back:
"Cribbs has the most memorable play in recent Browns history.... And he ALMOST lead them to a victory over the Steelers... The Browns need him.. He's an asset to the organization... You invest in your assets."
I agree that with him that we should pay Cribbs more. But, it disgusts me that the main ammunition for wanting to pay Cribbs is the fact that he ALMOST led the team to a victory in a game against the Steelers.
The fact that one of the biggest triumphs in the last 10 years of this organization was an "ALMOST" victory in a regular season game against a rival says a lot for the pathetic nature of this team since its revival. I'm tired of the fan base being excited about the team being "one year away", "ALMOST" beating the Steelers, and the draft. It's high time that we only get excited about success instead of the potential for success!!!
Much respect to ya, even if you wish me the opposite...
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Quote:
But, it disgusts me that the main ammunition for wanting to pay Cribbs is the fact that he ALMOST led the team to a victory in a game against the Steelers.
Thats not my "main ammunition"... 
My point in bringing that game up is that it was exciting for everyone... If we can beat the Steelers, we can beat anyone.. Cribbs will be key to beating them.
No one was complaining in 2007 when we started almost every drive at the 50 yard line... Cribbs was the best ever, and a dream come true... The guy asks for a raise, and now he is everything collected on the bottom of a 1st grader's shoe...
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I agree with you. Pay Cribbs more, because he deserves it and he's earned it. His worth to the team, in my opinion, goes far beyond his current salary.
I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I'm was just ranting because I'm tired of always trying to find the silver lining in what has been an abysmal turd of a team for last ten years. As fans, I just wish we had some REAL success to hang our hat on!
Much respect to ya, even if you wish me the opposite...
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It's because every one of these guys should just be happy to be playing a game they love for the most storied of NFL franchises. Money should be a secondary issue.
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Well trading Cribbs won't make things better for our team...
We lucked up and got a UDFA to become a star in the league... and now don't care about him...
Cleveland will remain a tier 2 team at this rate.... Now if there was someone behind Cribbs on the depth chart that could do what Cribbs does on the field... then the FO might have a case... but there is no one on this team that gives his all like Cribbs...
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not saying we shouldn't toss the 400 grand at Cribbs as a bone for 2009 but comparing him to our kicker is a bit silly.
I hope you are joking. What do you expect? Do you believe Cribbs should return a majority of the kicks and punts for touchdowns? You are actually comparing his oppurtunities to score to Dawson's? That is probably the most lopsided, apples-to-oranges, silliest comparison I have ever seen.
Since I was showing how silly the comparison was, you're agreeing with me.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
The guy asks for a raise, and now he is everything collected on the bottom of a 1st grader's shoe...
You are making this waaaaaaay different than it is...no one has a problem with him wanting more money...the problem is with him holding out...especially frustrating given the new regime...new system...new terminology...new attitude...and possibly enhanced role.
He needs to get his butt on the filed...yesterday.
THAT is the problem.
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just clicken...
Phil Dawson btw is holding out just like Cribbs for a new contract. Nobody hears about him - of course he's not taking his case to the media. Another reason why Cribb's case should go on the bottom of the pile.
1. DQ - deemed untouchable and his contract ends this season so we wish to sign him long term now.
2. Phil Dawson - Very Good Kickers are not easy to find. We have seen good playoff teams LOSE because of lousy kickers and their need for a good one is a edge on the Parity in the NFL...Dawson is a good one.
3. Cribbs - Kick Returner and Kick-off demon. Although teams put extra value in a rookie WR or DB who returns as an added ASSET - mostly cause it takes a couple of seasons to become good at their trade but can produce in the return game as a rookie. Its not a hard position to fill and I cannot remember a team very strong entering the playoffs come out of it with their heads down and state how if only they had a Kick off Returner. (As they have done so with their FG kickers)
Cribbs vs. Hester....there is no comparison because Hester was given his contract as the Bears #1 WR - regardless of what he has put up as stats as that #1 the fact is HE IS THE #1 WR and still is as they don't seek another. But his QBs had previously sucked as did their air game.
Cribbs isn't even our #3, 4 or 5 WR now and that was his named position to gain prominence in and that which he spent the most time in learning. There is no comparison. Actually Versatality means two things.
1. You can do a lot of things athletically.
2. You do nothing great.
So far Cribbs has been that for most positions. RB, DB - can only be speculated on his contributions. Just what INCREASE can he possibly hope for in a BIG ???
All they got to go on is Kick-off Return, Punt Return, Kick-off pursuit as well as Punt. And Gadget plays. Cribbs wants a lot more than what he is asking for and he has asked for what his peers get. Well most in his position (peers) would love his contract.
OK...here is the Peer of his I can most compare him to.
Miles Austin - Dallas Cowboys, Injured somewhat in the past but has become a very good return specialist for the Cowboys.
Also his WR duties and skills have escalated to that he is the favorite to become the #2 WR opposite of Roy Williams.
He has a ONE YEAR CONTRACT of 1.5 mil. Add his signing bonus and incentives Cribbs is about a 100 grand short of that.
I agree with Cribbs in that he needs to be paid more - but not much more at all.
Not unless he positions himself better in an every down position on O or D.
If not the most he could seek is a million more per season. He doesn't deserve more than that on what he does.
JMHO - but to compare him to Hester for contract is rediculous. Hester is the #1 WR of the BEARS!!!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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First I heard about Dawson...where did you get that tidbit?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Hester was the #1 receiver on the Bears last season because they had no other receivers that were worthy of being on an NFL practice squad, let alone a roster. Probably a big reason they used 3 of their 9 draft picks on WRs this year.
And Miles Austin? That's who you want to compare to Cribbs? Cribbs has as many return yards in a season as Austin has for his career. Not to mention Austin DOES NOT return punts, DOES NOT cover on kickoffs, and is a 4th receiver option behind Williams, Crayton, and Witten. He also has two more career receptions than Cribbs.
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Quote:
Actually Versatality means two things.
1. You can do a lot of things athletically.
2. You do nothing great.
That's where I stopped reading 
Dion Sanders was versital. He wasn't great at anything?
Adalius Thomas was coveted and signed by Belicheck because he was so versital. Ed Reed is described by every DC they have as versital.
None of these guys were/are great????
Just because Bone-Head Crennel didn't have sense enough to use the talent on his roster doesn't mean that Cribbs performance ceiling has been seen.
If Crennel was any good at the jopb he's still be here. He couldn't even get more touches for Harrison when all the kid did was run for touchdowns.
Seriously, an offense that hadn't scored in weeks and weeks - and had lost it's #1 & #2 QB - and determined that the #3 QB was worthless - STILL couldn't find away to get the ball to the few playmakers on the team.
I've never seen a TERRIBLE NFL coach so kindly spoken of and his oppinions held in such esteem by the team that fired him for bombing.
We don't know what Cribbs is capable of. We do know that everything he's tried he's gotten better at through hard work. He wasn't always a top tier ST'er. He worked to become one.
He may be capable of much more. With a coach that's willing to challenge and grow his potential he could become a special player in the league.
If you want to be a playoff team you need playmakers. Cribbs is a playmaker. If the Browns treat him fairly players will notice. If they keep cheaping out players will notice, too.
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We can trade Cribbs... No fear.. We have the guy from Penn St. now.. Norwood..
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Let's just put it all in perspective. Let's say you are Josh Cribbs - all around stud player, you lay it on the line EVERY play w/o regard for your well being...
And you look around at the locker room of guys making more $ than you:
9 Brady Quinn $4,323,040 - has not played a snap as an NFL caliber starting QB.
10 Rex Hadnot $3,950,000 - who? lol
17 David Bowens $2,000,000 - huh?
21 Mike Furrey $1,806,240 - really?
26 John St. Clair $1,375,000 - ok...
27 Dave Zastudil $1,356,720 - the PUNTER???
30 Nick Sorensen $1,009,320 - sure, why not
32 Beau Bell $790,620 - at least this guy who doesn't play is near my salary.
After seeing that, I'd be rather upset that my salary was lower than these guys.
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CDawg, don't know realize that those guys play REAL positions? They're not just special teamers who contribute nothing like Cribbs does.
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Cribbs' most-important role is probably KR. His close second-most important role is kickoff coverage! Then punt coverage! Then punt returner. He is an ACE at the first three and better-than-average at the fourth. His distant, next-most-important role is trick-play-guy, and then pulling up the rear is #47 WR.
Who cares what # WO he is?! If we lost Cribbs, all phases of our ST would suffer except field goals. Our field position would drastically suffer. Sure, good kickers are certainly not a dime a dozen but there is NO player in special teams that means more to their team IN THIS LEAGUE than Cribbs does with us. Sure, Larry Izzo goes to the PB every year, but Cribbs does more for us than he does for the Pats!
Anyway, my point is the discussion of Cribbs' value to the team should have nothing to do with where he is on the WR depth chart (or "rep chart," for that matter,) but his impact to our team's field position... and that is something that should not be undervalued. Don't you guys remember talking about Cribbs after 2006 and 2007 as should be considered for team MVP? Yet we pay him a bologne sandwich above the vet-minimum? Come ON! This pee-pee contest is way out of place here. He deserves more $$$. A lot more.
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Quote:
I agree with Cribbs in that he needs to be paid more - but not much more at all.
I mirror your thought.
BUT, he's wrong on two fronts.
First, he signed a NEW contract just two seasons ago. TWO. How many players agree to a SIX-YEAR DEAL then turn around, hold-out, make public statements questioning the integrity of the organization, and ask to be traded ONLY TWO YEARS into that new deal? 
Obviously he's wrong for demanding a trade. That's just stupid.
Here's the essence of what's happening here:
Cribbs took the long-term SAFE deal two seasons ago. Now he feels that he's underpaid, so he wants a do-over.
It's BS and he's wrong.
We don't have to compare his salaries to other players or try to compare his value to a kicker. All we have to do is realize that he signed a new contract two years ago but wants a new deal only two years into a six-year deal.
He signed a new deal. Players rarely deserve a new deal this quickly into an old one that's six freakin' years long.
Maybe next year Cribbs, but not this year. You agreed to the deal, you live with it for another season.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
First I heard about Dawson...where did you get that tidbit?
It's been in several articles... not sure how true it is that he's looking for a new contract as the articles have stated.. but he is NOT at camp.. that part is accurate.
This from Mary Kay Cabot is but one mention of it:
Quote:
Cleveland Browns' Dawson a voluntary camp no-show
by By Mary Kay Cabot Thursday May 21, 2009, 5:47 PM
Browns 11th-year kicker Phil Dawson was a no-show at Browns voluntary minicamp this week in what could be a statement about wanting a new contract.
Neither Dawson nor his agent Neil Cornrich could be reached for comment.
Perhaps in anticipation of Dawson's absence, the Browns signed South Dakota State rookie kicker Parker Douglass to a two-year contract on Monday. He handled the placekicking chores in practice all week.
Dawson's representatives approached the Browns about a new contract last season, sources said.
In 2005, Dawson signed a five-year, $7.1 million extension that pays him $1 million this season and next season. He's one of the most accurate kickers in league history with an 82.8% field goal percentage. In 2007, he scored a career-high 120 points, tied for second-best in team history.
I got that from http://www.cleveland.com/browns/
Just scroll down to it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Steptoe can do what Cribbs does...
so can Jordan Norwood...
he's replaceable...
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Quote:
Steptoe can do what Cribbs does...
so can Jordan Norwood...
he's replaceable...
I don't know Norwood,, But steptoe can't do what Cribbs does..
Cribbs can play the following positions to one degree or the other: RB, WR, KR, PR and QB.
I know of nobody else in the league that can do that.. do you?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Exactly...  Kokinis!!! Give Cribbs his money!!
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Well, Phil scored 108 points for us in 2008, Josh scored 18 points for us.
89% of the time Phil had an opportunity to score, he did.
3% of the time Josh had an opportunity to score, he did.
I'm not saying we shouldn't toss the 400 grand at Cribbs as a bone for 2009 but comparing him to our kicker is a bit silly. I certainly wouldn't pay him more than Dawson at this point.
That's a bit of a silly analogy, Tulsa.
Phil is a lot more tenured. He's a vet, and vets typically make more money.
I just hope that when it comes to the mandatory stuff, these 2 guys are there.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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j/c
Can someone answer me this:
Who is the next highest paid KR/PR after Hester?
you had a good run Hank.
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j/c
Can someone answer me this:
Who is the next highest paid KR/PR after Hester?
The problem is that few KR/PR are pure returners. Most have other functions on the team. Leon Washington for example.
Dante Hall was probably the closest example to Cribbs...except he didn't kick-cover like Cribbs, so Josh has added value.
Unfortunately, though many sites I found list that Hall signed a 5 year deal in 2003 (height of his value), I could not find a site that listed the $$$
#gmstrong
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Isn't that the point .. Josh is " One of a Kind " , yes ????
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Ask Parcells, Belicheck, even Woody Hayes.....
Football is many things....but one of those things is a battle of field position.
It could be said that no one effects that battle more in the NFL than Cribbs. The guy seems to make half the ST tackles each game and is as dynamic a returner as they come.
Ask successful coaches how important a guy like Cribbs is and I'd bet you'd get the same response.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cribbs To Skip First 'Voluntary'
Minicamp
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