DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cleveland Cavaliers playoff thread Pt.3

I didn't realize he didn't shake hands either. But both - that and not talking to the media - were not the classy LeBron that we have come to expect. Facing the media is part of the gig, and all the greats have done it in defeat.

Sager reported that he addressed his team then left with his mom and would not be returning home with the team ... instead staying in Orlando. I thought that was a bad move too. He's separating himself from the team and that is very un-LeBron-like.

I believe he should get a mulligan for these actions because he's earned it with being a genuine, humble athlete for most of his professional playing days. But he should have faced the music, and he should be ripped a little for not doing it.

I gotta say...i knew we were goin to lose this series after we dropped 3-1...but i didn't realize it would be this painful....don't think i would be this bummed if the lakers lost....



For the Cavs, LeBron’s silence speaks loud enough
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
7 hours, 9 minutes ago
ORLANDO – Head down and shoulders slumped, LeBron James(notes) headed off the court as the Orlando Magic streamers shot off above him.

Dwight Howard(notes) was hugging Hedo Turkoglu(notes), dreams of Beating L.A. dancing in their heads. James wasn’t bothering to stick around to shake hands, offer congratulations or pretend there was a bright side to the Magic ousting his Cleveland Cavaliers from the East finals with a 103-90 victory in Game 6.

James was off the floor before the confetti could hit his shoulders.

He later dressed in silence in a corner of the locker room then put on some gold, oversized headphones and headed for the door. Normally one of the last to leave, he was now one of the first. With anger and frustration evident in each step, he charged through the back halls of Amway Arena without greeting anyone, got on the team bus and soon was off to the airport.

There was no looking for his mother, Gloria. There was no talking with Nike executives. And forget addressing fans and media – Mo Williams(notes) was left to answer for the defeat.

LeBron was gone. The King was silent.

The fallout from this defeat will echo loudly all summer, though, the pressure mounting on Cavs general manager Danny Ferry.

Whether this was James’ ultra-competitiveness overwhelming his emotions or a sign of his frustration with a front office that in six seasons has failed to give him the supporting cast capable of winning a championship remains to be seen.

LeBron James, 24, is a free agent after next season and while he’s never said he would leave Cleveland, he’s never said he wouldn’t. As such, this move – his every move, actually – will be analyzed as the psyche of a championship-starved city hangs in the balance.

James doesn’t need a bigger market to be a global icon (a now-doomed Nike puppet advertising campaign is proof of that). And he doesn’t seem to possess the personality that covets the bright lights of New York or L.A. (he still lives near Akron and mostly hangs out with high school buddies or his longtime girlfriend and two young children).

He may need to leave to win a championship, though.

“Going into the playoffs we were confident that we were going to be in the NBA Finals and we were confident that we were going to win it,” Williams said. “I can understand [James’] disappointment because I’m feeling the same disappointment.”

There’s little sense in criticizing James for not speaking with the media Saturday – it’s the only thing he didn’t do in this series. He averaged 38.5 points, 8.3 rebounds and 8.0 assists. He offered leadership and defense. He saved Game 2 with an all-timer of a buzzer-beater.

And it wasn’t even close to enough.

Cleveland players said James did speak to them briefly in the stunned locker room and, according to Daniel Gibson(notes), said “we just need to keep working.” It was clear to everyone, however, he was taking this defeat hard.

A 66-win regular season left the Cavs optimistic they had found the parts for a championship, but deep in the playoffs, where intensity is matched and matchups get intense, the limitations are clear.

The Cavs were swept in the 2007 Finals and now have failed to get out of the East the last two seasons.

In this game, from the time the Magic trotted out the booming voice of 7-year-old Gina Marie Incandela for the national anthem to a fourth quarter filled with chants of “MVP” and “Beat L.A.,” it wasn’t so much a contest as a 2½-hour pep rally for the Finals.

All of Cleveland’s recurring problems kept accruing. Howard had 40 points and 14 rebounds as he tore through the not-prime-time frontcourt of Anderson Varejao(notes) and Zydrunas Ilgauskas(notes). Williams had 17 point, but showed in this series he isn’t ready to be this generation’s Scottie Pippen.

The entire bench combined for just 10 points and five rebounds. Other than James, the roster lacked the size and athletic ability to deal with perimeter threats Rashard Lewis(notes) and Rafer Alston(notes).

Cleveland had the best player in this series. Orlando had the next four.

“I think this team is right there,” Williams said. “We just have to do a little bit more.”

What they have to do is get a little bit more. Despite boasting one of the highest payrolls in the league and having a half-dozen years to put together the roster, the Cavs are still a player or two away. Where Ferry finds them is the question.

He has only the midlevel salary-cap exception to spend on free agents. The Cavs discussed acquiring Shaquille O’Neal(notes) at the trade deadline, but the Phoenix Suns balked at taking back Ben Wallace(notes). The Cavs have some pieces, but no margin for error on anything less than the perfect move.

It begins with the need for a big man because it’s not like the 23-year-old Howard is going anywhere. The Magic are no fluke, they’re more than capable of beating the Lakers.


“How many games could [Cleveland] win without LeBron James?” Jerry West asked rhetorically to Reuters. By way of comparison, when Michael Jordan skipped the 1993-94 season to play baseball, the remaining Chicago Bulls won 55. West likely doubts the non-LeBron Cavs would get to 40.

In the same interview, West declared James a superior player to Kobe Bryant(notes).

Yet it is Kobe’s team, rebuilt on the fly after a stretch of mediocrity from 2005-07 that will host Game 1 of the Finals on Thursday. The Lakers will meet the Magic, who have surrounded their young star, Howard, with the perfect complimentary parts.


Meanwhile LeBron waits. He’s never publicly criticized a teammate, coach or front-office decision. And he didn’t Saturday.

Maybe Gloria James taught him that if you don’t have anything nice to say, then it’s best to say nothing at all. Just head for the bus, the booming beats of the headphones droning out the questions about the immediate past and the long-term future.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Au...o&type=lgns

I'm not a hoops fan, but just speaking in general, I don't like seeing my team's guys laughing with and hugging opposing players after a game - especially a game of that magnitude. I like that James was pissed.

Even though Artest has a checkered past, I wouldn't mind giving him a look.

The guy always seems to play rough and go all out on opposing defenses, he didn't do that bad against Bryant.

I watched all the games... but something bothered me the entire series..

Why wasn't Lebron guarding Turkoglu??

Turk controlled the Magic's offense.. And Lebron was the only one that had the size and athleticism to play one on one w/ Turk..

If the Cavs managed to trade for Chris Bosh and sign Ron Artest there will be NO reason why this team shouldn't win an NBA championship.

Also I'm going to enjoy watching LA's 7 footers punk Dwight Howard

I don't care that Lebron didn't congratulate the Magic on their victory. They did nothing but physically abuse him on the court and badmouth him to the media off it.

Quote:

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I do think you line up after the series and make that walk.

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I agree. I remember when the Pistons wouldn't shake the Bulls' hands after Chicago swept them in '90 or '91.
It's not a classy way to act in defeat.

I didn't see it happen- I ended up shutting it off when it got under a minute. Couldn't take seeing it anymore.

I agree, though that if he did rush out of there, he should have thought about it before rushing off. I understand that he's upset, but he needed to at least see a couple guys, say congrats and good luck, pat 'em on the butt, before heading out.

I don't know if anyone else saw, but James gave Howard a barely noticeable low-five towards the game's end after wrapping him up for a foul.

I would've walked off in silence, too...not saying that's the right course of action, but I'd have done the same.

Also...props to Delonte West.

I never thought I'd see it...but the ENTIRE team QUIT after halftime except him...and he was in pain.

Well if they cried about Lebron.. they haven't seen ANYTHING yet when they play Kobe...

That's why I can't stand watching the Lakers... Kobe and even other Lakers get so many ghost calls...

Quote:

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It's the NBA, not the YMCA summer league. They don't need to line up and slap hands.

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No, it's not, and they don't need to line up like in little league.

But I think it's shows some good sportsmanship to at least acknowledge a few players and/or Ron Jeremy, errrr Stan Van Gundy.

Wow...you're calling that "badmouthing"? Since I started following the NBA 20 years ago, that's part of playoff basketball ... every team trying to get an edge ... plant a seed in the refs minds. Badmouthing ... that's a reach at best.

YMCA? When you reach a certain level, does that mean sportsmanship and class are no longer important?

I disagree, but hey, what else is new?

Orlando doesn't need Lebron's congratulations and well-wishes, and I highly doubt they care that he walked off the court. I'm sure being happy that they won, and looking forward to meeting the Lakers in the Finals were occupying most of their thoughts.

I don't think I can bring myself to root for either team in the Finals. They're both chock-full of over-hyped players that I can't stand, plus a rapist.

not shaking the hands after a series is not uncommon.

it's not a tradition like hockey...

guys don't shake hands in baseball? some don't really even in football.

lebron didn't shake hands after the boston series, after the san antonio series, and even the detroit series the year prior.

doesn't mean that he didn't congratulate them at some point.

after they lost the detroit series, he congratuled chauncey billups later on that night after they had showered and dealt with the media.

they can make a big deal about it, because it's lebron, and at this point the media will run with any negative thing they can "oh my god he was so upset he didn't shake hands and went off the court, that obviously means he's going to nyc!"

only in hockey is it an absolute must. only in hockey is it traditon, and only in hockey do you look like a d-bag if you don't line up.

It is classy to acknowledge that another team outplayed you and give them props for their effort. It may not be required, but it shows that you are a good loser and have respect for your opponent. It is called good sportsmanship. It may be a bitter pill to take, but it is better than stomping off the court like a sour primadonna. Lebron doesn't generally act like a primadonna. but he did in that instance. He made himself bigger than the game, which is not classy at all.

I'm honestly questioning the existence of God right now...

ron artest is 6'7" and can handle anyone on orlando's starting 5 with the exception of probably dwight howard (although i think he could probably body him up at times during a game)

if we add him, i still think we'd have some problems with orlando. we need a big body down low...

the problem is, those don't exactly grow on trees.

Here's the top 10 FAs of this summer(some are restricted) Also, the link has other players if you wanan check out a more in depth look at the FAs.

1) Kobe Bryant – Los Angeles Lakers
Early Termination Option: owed $47.8 million thru 2011
You may have heard of this guy, he's pretty good. However, attempting to predict what Kobe might be thinking or which way he might be leaning 11 months from now is an exercise in futility. A year ago at this time, after all the public posturing and trade demands, most everyone assumed Kobe would choose to bolt once he had the opportunity to leave LA freely, but now he is coming off his first MVP award and a (albeit disappointing) trip to the NBA Finals. With a huge, potentially dominating frontline of Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum, the future seems very promising in La La Land. Thus, you have to believe Kobe would be content finishing his career in LA, but as we have learned with Kobe, nothing can be taken for granted. There will be some added pressure on the rest of his teammates and the organization as a whole to build off and improve upon the success they experienced last season. If the Lakers were to take a step backwards in '08-'09, things could get dramatic in Hollywood. The most likely scenario is him opting out of his current contract and, and after some harmless flirting with Chicago and a few other teams, eventually agreeing to another long-term max-money contract with the Lakers. Either way, it should be interesting to see this drama unfold. As we saw with Baron Davis and Elton Brand last month, shocking decisions can be made in the 11th hour.

2) Carlos Boozer – Utah Jazz
Player Option: owed $12.6 million for 2009-2010 season
He's just 26-years-old and has already proven himself an elite NBA talent, worthy of max-money, after averaging 21 points and 11 boards per game over the last two seasons. Thus, with the amount of coin he could collect by signing a long-term contract for the maximum allowable salary, it is all but certain that Boozer will opt out of the final year of his current contract. The question is where Boozer will choose to spend the prime of his career. Each and every team with cap space will make a run at him, and even many of those without room will look to finesse a sign-and-trade. The most prevalent rumors associated with Boozer has him landing in South Beach with D Wade and the Miami HEAT. Boozer, who lives in Miami, has stated he would like to return to Utah but will keep his options open.

3) Shawn Marion – Miami HEAT
Unrestricted
If you study the statistics, The Matrix has been one of the NBA's most productive and efficient players this decade. His well-rounded game stuffs the stats sheet like very few others. He can defend, rebound, shoot the three, block shots, score in transition, etc. Still, he will be 31 at the start of the 09-10 campaign, and his production has tailed off slightly the last two seasons. It will be interesting to see how he fares in Miami next year. Some believe his production was a byproduct of the Suns high-octane offense and style of play. This was something that clearly bothered Marion, and as a result, last February he welcomed a mid-season trade from a championship contender (at the time) to a last place team with no playoff aspirations. Assuming he is 100% healthy, he will have a full season to prove the naysayers wrong. Expect him to be super-motivated by the allure of a hefty, long-term contract waiting in the wings.

4) Steve Nash – Phoenix Suns
Team Option: owed $13.1 million for the 2009-2010 season
Very safe to assume that the Suns will pick up the relatively affordable $13 million dollar option and keep the former MVP in the Valley of the Sun for at least one more season. Nash would then become and unrestricted FA following the '09-'10 season, joining the unbelievable free-agent class of 2010.

5) Mehmet Okur – Utah Jazz
Early Termination Option – owed $9 million for the 2009-2010 season
It was considered somewhat of a gamble when the Jazz offered Okur a big contract after he served as a role player in Detroit during the early stages of his career, but that gamble has paid off handsomely for Utah as Okur has developed into a versatile and productive big man. With Boozer, Okur, and Kyle Korver all possibly opting out of their contracts next summer, Utah will have some very tough financial decisions to make.

6) Allen Iverson – Denver Nuggets
Unrestricted
Iverson has been a warrior and an absolute offensive force throughout his entire 13-year NBA career, but the fact of the matter is the diminutive playmaker will turn 34 next June - and there are a lot of miles on those resilient bones. Still The Answer continues to perform at an elite level; you would expect him to lose a step a some point, but he keep chugging along. It will be interesting to see what kind of offers he receives on the open market. He would be extremely appealing to a team that feels that they are one big scorer away from a championship. How about this intriguing scenario: Iverson, content with the multi-millions he has already deposited in his savings account, agrees to give Philly a hometown discount in order to team up with Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, et al. It would have the makings of a fairy-tale homecoming, and would have the city of Philadelphia absolutely buzzing...

7) Ron Artest – Sacramento Kings
Unrestricted
It was assumed that Artest would opt out of the final year of his current contract and become a free-agent this summer, as he had claimed many times he would do just that. But he surprisingly choose to play out the '08-'09 season in Sac-Town, and then stated he immediately regretted that decision… Artest is an enigma on so many levels. Yes, he has been injury-prone and is a bit unpredictable, but when he steps in between those lines, Ron Artest is great basketball player. Not only is he arguably the most feared defender in the entire league, Ron-Ron is also an terrific scorer and a solid rebounder. In the 57 games he played for the Kings last season, he averaged 20.5 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.5 assists, and 2.3 steals. Combine those stats with All-NBA defense and it's easy to see why Artest is such an intriguing player despite all the baggage he carries. Somebody will roll the dice and offer him a hefty contract.

8) Lamar Odom – Los Angeles Lakers
Unrestricted
Odom seemed to really find his niche towards the end of last season as the third option behind Kobe and Pau Gasol. This is a role that Lamar seems perfectly suited for, but with the drama in LA, it remains unclear how this situation will play itself out. There has even talk of a swap sending Odom to Sacramento in exchange for Artest. Nonetheless, if the (luxury-tax weary) Lakers are unwilling to pay Odom what he wants, he will find many other suitors.

9) Hedo Turkoglu – Orlando Magic
Early Termination Option: owed $7.4 million for the 2008-2009 season
Turkoglu is fresh off a career season which netted him the league's Most Improved Player award. Just how good was Hedo last season? Let's put it this way – he was one of only five players in the NBA to average at least 19.5 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists per game. The other four players were Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James. Not bad company to keep. However, Turkoglu had never averaged over 14 points or three assists in a season prior to last year, so it remains to be seen whether he can come close to duplicating those numbers next season. If he can, he'll opt-opt out and cash in. This is an instance where the Magic overpaying for Rashard Lewis could really come back to bite them.

10) Andrew Bynum – Los Angeles Lakers
Restricted
Placing him in the Top-10, above many extremely established and well-respected veterans, is a speculative selection. However, over the first few months of the '07-'08 season, Bynum's emergence, and at times dominance, was startling. He averaged nearly 15 points and 11 rebounds (while shooting 65.6% from the floor and blocking 2.3 shots per contest!) in the 25 games he started prior to injuring his left knee in January. Any time a 20-year-old center can post those kind of numbers, the league will take notice. The fact that Bynum wasn't able to make it back to the court at all last season is evidence enough that the injury to his kneecap was severe. However, if he can come back and display the form he exhibited last season, teams will be lining up to spend big money to try and snatch the young, promising big man away from LA. There is also a chance the Lakers lock him long-term this summer, if they can do it an agreeable price.


Get on it Ferry.

Another guy not on that list is Rip Hamilton. I think having him at the 2 spot would be a huge upgrade over West who would be a quality guy coming off the bench.

I have a feeling we may look to go after Charlie Villenueva via trade...

We need someone in our starting frontcourt who demands attention...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4218786

By Chris Broussard
ESPN.com
Archive
ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Cleveland Cavaliers' crushing defeat at the hands of the Orlando Magic Saturday may not have been their only loss. Ben Wallace, their enforcer and starting center for most of the season, said after the game that he may retire.

"I'm going to sit down and talk with my family, weigh my options and come up with a decision," the 34-year-old Wallace said after Cleveland's 103-90 loss. "Nothing's definite, but there's a strong possibility that this was my last season."


Wallace
Wallace has one year and $14 million left on his contract. He has not yet spoken with Cavaliers management about retirement or a buyout.

"I haven't talked to Ben at all about his future," said general manager Danny Ferry, who was surprised to hear about Wallace's comments.

Wallace, a veteran of 13 seasons, sighted his declining health as a major reason he may hang up his sneakers. He missed 25 games due to injury this season, sitting out with a right forearm laceration, a fractured right fibula, a bruised left knee and a strained left patella tendon.

"It's tough being on the sidelines when you're banged up," he said. "Then you've got to put in all that work to get back in the rotation. It's becoming a young man's game."

If Wallace chooses to retire, he will almost certainly seek a buyout since retiring outright would cost him next season's salary. But he said money will not be the determining factor in his decision.

"I think I deserve [a buyout]," Wallace said. "But if I don't get one and I've just got to give it up, that's what I'll do."

Despite Wallace's declining production, losing him would be a big blow to the Cavaliers. With Anderson Varejao, who replaced Wallace in the starting lineup during the playoffs, and Joe Smith both becoming free agents, the only returning big man in their rotation would be Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who will turn 34 next week.

A Wallace retirement would also give Varejao added leverage in contract negotiations this summer. As a restricted free agent last year, Varejao sat out nearly half the season due to a contract dispute. He's unrestricted this year and his agent, Dan Fegan, is likely to seek a long-term deal worth about $10 million annually.

But re-signing Varejao at that type of number could hinder the Cavaliers' ability to sign a star free agent such as Chris Bosh in the summer of 2010.

Wallace, who was nicknamed "Body" by his teammates because of his imposing physique, has been one of the most inspiring stories in the NBA. Undrafted out of Virginia Union, he became a star in his fifth season.

Traded from Orlando to Detroit in 2000 as part of a package for Grant Hill, he became the league's premier rebounder and shot blocker. A four-time all-star and four-time Defensive Player of the Year, he anchored the Pistons' championship team that upset the Los Angeles Lakers in 2004.

After signing a four-year, $60 million deal with Chicago as a free agent in 2006, Wallace was traded to Cleveland last season.

He's averaged 10.3 rebounds and 2.2 blocks for his career, including a career-high 15.4 rebounds in 2002-03. Wallace averaged just 6.5 rebounds and 1.3 blocks for the Cavs this season. Coming off the bench against the Magic, he averaged 2.7 rebounds in 12 minutes this series.

Wallace, who is less than a year's worth of credits away from graduating from Virginia Union, said he plans to earn his bachelor's degree and then attend law school once he retires.

Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

that's quite a bit of money coming off the books if wallace goes.

ron artest has said several times he would love to play with lebron james in cleveland.

charlie villanueva is an interesting piece. he has versatility, would have been a good guy to counter with in the orlando series. they have lewis, villanueva is a bit similiar...

i have faith in this front office that danny ferry can make this team better.

ron artest will always be considered a gamble, but he was a pretty good teammate this year outside of saying a few stupid things.

and with as tight-knit as the cavs are, he'd be welcomed in like family, it would be good for him. and the cavs need a guy like that.

we could have battier/artest like combo with defense in james and artest...

still gotta get bigger down low... i really think you can only start z if you have a power forward who can body up.

tyson chandler/z would be a good fit too. i know he has been mentioned several times.

i have no worries. this team will fix whatever flaws they have and be better next year.

that would be great if wallce retired. WE could save a lot of money on the cap this year. No way would I sign Varejo to a 50-60 million deal worth 10 million a year. He just doesn't have the offensive game to warrant that kind of money. In fact I believe he should be coming off the bench. Similar to Bird man from Denver.

The only downside if wallace retires, is we lose his expiring contract which is appealing to teams that want to slash payroll.