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Gov't trying to stop home bible study SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, who then threatened them with escalating fines if they continued to hold bible studies in their home, 10News reported. Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center For Law & Policy was shocked with what happened to the pastor and his wife. Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'" The county employee notified the couple that the small bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of county regulations, according to Broyles. Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars. "For churches and religious assemblies there's big parking concerns, there's environmental impact concerns when you have hundreds or thousands of people gathering. But this is a different situation, and we believe that the application of the religious assembly principles to this bible study is certainly misplaced," said Broyles. News of the case has rapidly spread across Internet blogs and has spurred various reactions. Broyles said his clients have asked to stay anonymous until they give the county a demand letter that states by enforcing this regulation the county is violating their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion. Broyles also said this case has broader implications. "If the county thinks they can shut down groups of 10 or 15 Christians meeting in a home, what about people who meet regularly at home for poker night? What about people who meet for Tupperware parties? What about people who are meeting to watch baseball games on a regular basis and support the Chargers?" said Broyles. Broyles and his clients plant to give the county their demand letter this week. If the county refuses to release the pastor and his wife from obtaining the permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court. "California is a wreck,,,,what's next my poker party or even my weekend BBQ with the neighbors. Freakin outrageous!"
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Legend
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I agree it is a shame they are being hassled.
But, with that said, I guess you'd have to read the law. I think the point the official was going with is it was a regular assembly of 15 or more people. Which depending on the law he is referring to, could mean they need a license. You would think they could make an exception for a bible study group unless they believe something else was going on there, but if they want to be sticklers to the law, then they have to hold every group to the same standards.
Sounds like this law being referred to need clarification or modification.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Quote:
a demand letter that states by enforcing this regulation the county is violating their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion.
I thought the first amendment was only about prohibiting religion in public places.. you mean there is another part?  
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Yep ... We should be seeing the ACLU jumping in to help these guys any second now ...
any second now ...
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Dawg Talker
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This is the type of thing that the ACLU does defend.
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Yeah, I think FF has it right. They meet weekly if not more, and parking could be the major problem here which can cause an unforeseen problem for others in the area. The state's not saying they can't practice their religion, just that a gathering of ~15 or so people at least once a week could make the lives of their neighbors, literally, hell for a day/night. I'm sure the state doesn't go looking for these types of informal churches, they just enforce the rule when others complain about it.
There are no sacred cows.
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once a week could make the lives of their neighbors, literally, hell for a day/night
Yeah, I figure Hell will be all about moderate traffic congestion in suburbia.  
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I think you're missing the point. The basis of complaint is that if the ordinance applies striclty to religious assembly, then that's an infringement on their right to practice their religion.
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Legend
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It didn't say the ordinance was strictly for religious assembly, but was "Unlawful use of land", at least that's how I interpreted what was written.
never mind, after re-reading the beginning, where he asks about "did you pray", "did you say amen?", I see where this is most likely a religious assembly law.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 05/28/09 10:59 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I wonder if this is one of those old laws from way back when to stop witches and demons from gathering?  You know the ancient laws that shouldn't be on the books anymore, but it apparently is much harder to remove a law than to enact one.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I didn't say I agreed with it, just that I can see how the county could see it as a problem for other residents.
Also, this is just one side of the story, told from the bible study's perspective. Does anyone actually know the law or are we just speculating at this point?
There are no sacred cows.
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Legend
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I have to wonder if there's more to the story...but this is just ridiculous.
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I would be telling the county to kiss my entire ass.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Oh hell, all this is is an attempt to get the family to pay for the permit..
Sorry folks, but I'll be damned if some state or city official could tell me what I can and cannot do in my home when it comes to worship...
They could kiss my lilly white behind.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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I would be telling the county to kiss my entire ass.
And it would take the entire county.
This story is ridiculous. What southern california police are this bored?!
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Quote:
Yep ... We should be seeing the ACLU jumping in to help these guys any second now ...
any second now ...
Defending which side?
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Legend
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Quote:
They meet weekly if not more, and parking could be the major problem here which can cause an unforeseen problem for others in the area. The state's not saying they can't practice their religion, just that a gathering of ~15 or so people at least once a week could make the lives of their neighbors, literally, hell for a day/night.
15 people, many of them probably couples, equals 8 to 10 cars tops... How does an additional 8-10 cars in your neighborhood once a week equate to "literally, hell for a night"? If the cars are parked illegally, ticket the cars... if not, deal with it.
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I'm sure the state doesn't go looking for these types of informal churches, they just enforce the rule when others complain about it.
How much do you want to bet that if they were meeting weekly to discuss reducing greenhouse gas emissions, we wouldn't be having this conversation? 
yebat' Putin
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How much do you want to bet that if they were meeting weekly to discuss reducing greenhouse gas emissions, we wouldn't be having this conversation?
I don't know anything outside of this article, but if it is like it reads...someone around town with some power in the county offices probably has a personal gripe with this pastor and/or his wife .
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just another reason why the gov't needs to downsize....
these idiots would be the first in line for budget cuts in my book...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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My thought was that they probably blocked some neighbors driveway once or something equally bad... that person complained and then the authorities are obligated to follow up....
Unless some new and much more severe evidence comes forth showing where the Bible study folks did something wrong, public opinion will come down strong on their side.
yebat' Putin
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hmmmm you mean I should call the cops on my neighbors who have 10 to 20 cars parked on our street every nice night that it's warm, and they are all under 25 year old kids playing....gulp basketball till 10 or 11 PM on the lighted basketball court. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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"The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"
If she wanted the ACLU's help, she should have said, "No, we're having our weekly gay illegal immigrant orgy and flag burning".
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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UPDATE- The 2 sides met and the meetings will be allowed to continue without fines or whatnot until the issue is resolved--- web page
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UPDATE- The 2 sides met and the meetings will be allowed to continue without fines or whatnot until the issue is resolved---
web page
I wonder if that meeting between the 2 side was also against the law ......... you know .... if it was held in their home with the understanding that a follow up meeting might be held ....... ?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hmmmm....good question! 
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With all screaming of policemen getting laid off and the shortage of policemen it seems like they'd have better things to do with thier time than hassell people who read the bible in thier house. How about arresting the guy selling crack on the street corner...incredible...  California....I blame Al davis
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Legend
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How much do you want to bet that if they were meeting weekly to discuss reducing greenhouse gas emissions, we wouldn't be having this conversation?
So that questioning would have been something like this...
"The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Gore?' 'Yes.' Okay carry on."
#GMSTRONG
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"California is a wreck,,,,what's next my poker party or even my weekend BBQ with the neighbors. Freakin outrageous!"
You mean San Diego County.... not California... San Diego County is the one that sent officials in.. and yes they will send people to stop your poker party if there is money being gambled away.. Gambling in the state of California is illegal except for the lottery..  and maybe a few other things here and there.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Legend
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hmmmm you mean I should call the cops on my neighbors who have 10 to 20 cars parked on our street every nice night that it's warm, and they are all under 25 year old kids playing...
No, if half of them are girls, you should call ME.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Nope all guys 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Never mind. 
yebat' Putin
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Let's take another look at this.
The person is a pastor.
If they were going to have a bible study meeting, why did they not have the bible study at the church, instead of a private residence?
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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Quote:
Let's take another look at this.
The person is a pastor.
If they were going to have a bible study meeting, why did they not have the bible study at the church, instead of a private residence?
Why should they have to?
I know many, many people that belong to "small groups" that meet weekly in someone's home. That's a bad thing?
This kills me honestly. Attacking people that attack no one. Attempting to take a constitutional right away from people......and there are some dolts that are fine with it? Fine with taking away a constitutional right? Sorry folks, not even San Diego Co. is above the constitution.
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Does this law violate the 1st amendment of the Constitution? Let's see ........
Prohibiting the free expression of religion? Check.
Prohibiting freedom of speech? Check.
Limiting the right of people to assemble peaceably? Check.
Last time I checked, the 14th amendment (the famous due process clause) applied 1st Amendment limitations of powers to state and local governments as well.
If i were a Constitutional attorney, I'd love to tackle this as a case. It seems to me that it would be a slam dunk.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I can just hear the folk lore being told in a few years to our new comers in the renegade bible group about the good pastor facing down the armed marshals surrounding their home with sniper rifles and helicopters and how he stood up to their gayness and the abortioness for the grand honor of his chaste, angelic daughters and good lord JC, hallelujah! Good times. 
Last edited by 10YrOvernightSuccess; 05/30/09 12:07 AM.
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's take another look at this.
The person is a pastor.
If they were going to have a bible study meeting, why did they not have the bible study at the church, instead of a private residence?
Why should they have to?
I know many, many people that belong to "small groups" that meet weekly in someone's home. That's a bad thing?
This kills me honestly. Attacking people that attack no one. Attempting to take a constitutional right away from people......and there are some dolts that are fine with it? Fine with taking away a constitutional right? Sorry folks, not even San Diego Co. is above the constitution.
They were in violation of county regulations. It's against the law. Everyone must follow the law no matter what or accept their consequences if they don't.
See how it works when there is a law you don't agree with?
For what it's worth I agree this seems pretty ridiculous, but the quotes were also attributed to the pastor's lawyer. So hearing both sides of the story would be better, but then it probably would be a non-story.
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