DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini Not Making Friends?

@ fort and peeping at you with one eye..

Mary Kay Cosmetic updated this last evening.
I added the update from the PD site.

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Another source said the trip most likely violates the rules of what's reasonable.

Profootballtalk.com reported late Friday night that according to a league source, both the NFL and the NFL Players Association are looking into the trip to determine if it violated the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

But an NFL Players Association source said the Browns are not breaking any rules as long as the trip was voluntary and that the players wouldn't suffer any consequences from not going.

"Even the Browns veterans are baffled by it," said one source.

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Mary Kay Cosmetic ---cute--

this entire story is hogwash.

The media must really hate this guy.

Making this team has nothing to do with getting on a bus and doing some volunteer work. Its about what you do on the field, if you can make the plays. If you don't want to go, then don't go.

Sorry. I usually favor what Cabot writes and have told her so. Here, she must have been digging for the DarkSide, Luke. I am ashamed to see this aired. Our BBacker group is small, but we do a bunch of charity stuff and community good. Smearing this effort make the organization look how? I am glad to see the pups doing things as a group. I am glad to see Mangini committed to helping like this; coaches can be a special kind of Father Two and a life's inspiration. If we feel bad about the time spent, think of the money. This was "green" travel for a good cause. And if you would argue that it hurts performance and competition, it is FOR Mangini. He knows where they were, how long, etc. Some folks once upon a time would have found this inspirational and giving back, charitable, and actually reflecting a "proper" sense of priorities as proven by Mangini by his own example. I like it all.
Ms. Cabot, I will give you that it is a Bizarro World kind of "request" for their time, and it may well be "voluntary" only in a technical sense in reality. But please also consider the framework and its message which seems to have been shuffled aside too conveniently: A) This coach leads by example, showing what should be done, not just telling, and they are witness to the proof of his convictions, right or wrong; and 2) Mangini was with them. He shared. He did not ask players to do what he would not do himself as well.
The "opportunity" to force over 20 hours of enforced engagement with new teammates without media and distraction isn't bad in a number of ways. If the brats do not like it, reconsider the career. I see it as a small sacrifice at best. Hardship? Nah. No merit badges for survival camping. I could care less if vets approve, especially the likes of BE. Bigs. Be there or go home.

I really feel the only way to properly restore a sense of respect in this situation if for the League to somehow punish Mangini.

Consider the Month, this is the last week of May! If there is any time of the year a football player can plan in his Adult life to have a life it is this month and last month and next month,

Three days of mandatory travel, a mandated foreign city, and false charity.
I don't know anything about the charity they are doing, but if it is compelled by another like a boss or a coach or a goverment then it is false charity. Even if the players wanted to be charitable to that specific cause Mangini stole the opportunity for that to happen.

A mandated 3 days out of your life, for no football.
6 meals that you cannot eat and no benefit to football experience.

I think the BIGGEST problem I have with the whole idea, is the mandated time spent in a city outside of the local market, unscheduled, and at no players discretion.
How else can you define kidnapping, and inprisonment

hey hey, if ANY PLAYER IS EVEN ALMOST !!!!! doing this against their will !!!!!!! Then this is akin to kidnapping and inprisonment!

The whole situation is disrespectful to the highest degree and if the orchestrators of the event are not punished then the next time this situation happens it will be worse.
The league should step in, Mangini should either be fined or further restricted in the amount of OTA's he can conduct between now and this seasons start, or both. The team owner should also step in, and I would suggest apoligise to the players and their families for allowing this.

Hey hey, this may be an overreaction on my part, but my feeling on this is highly prejudiced by my displeasure of Mangini as a head coach, and everything the team has done since his hiring.

This is the land of the Free, so think of someone other than yourself for once. Also the fact that none of the responses I've read so far have been on this side, but all have been on the side of the players should suck it up sickens me.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death!
Is not give me a chance to bow to the latest appointed official!

Wow. Kidnapping? Imprisonment? Did you miss the part where it was volunteer?

It was freaking VOLUNTARY!!!!!

Yes, I understand that it might have been one of those "strongly recommended" things that Dave mentioned above but we ALL have had to do that at a job at one time or another. This is making a mountain out of a mole hill IMO.

Edit: Do you work for the media Throw? You hate Mangini as much as them. Give him a chance man! If he stinks, then hate him.

This whole thing is being blown out of proportion. This is the media trying to start a fire where there is no smoke. IMO it's the agents that are pissed.

As for the crap about these guys being forced to go is BS too. Sure Mangini will probably look at who decided to "volunteer", but these guys are not children, if they didn't feel like going, nothing forced them to go.

IMO anyone who thinks Mangini would actually cut a guy for not going is a fool. This guy is building a team, if the player is good, he'll make the team whether he went or not.

The agents and the media are making something out of nothing. I bet once the rookies are there and see how the kids look up at them, their egos will be inflated a little. It also might be a good thing showing some of these guys what it really means to give back to the community.

j/c.

It's a luxury bus, they can study their playbooks, relax and do what most normal people need an entire house to do.

As for the title...he's not supposed be their friend. He's their coach. I don't want him to be everyone's buddy, I want rings.

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It's a luxury bus, they can study their playbooks, relax and do what most normal people need an entire house to do.

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Don't know how many rides you boys have had on buses but speaking from experience they are no damned fun . Luxury buses ...lol..try to recline or catch any amount of good rest . If I am a first second or maybe even a third round pick I am staying home to heck with this charity garbage . Couldn't find a closer charity camp to give your time to ..oh say one in NE Ohio ? Mangini is now the H.C. of a team that is not in the New England states so he needs to find a worthy cause closer to home to support.

It seems that every off season this team does something bizarre.
I'm beginning to think this whole org.is a bunch of hillbillies.
This is a reality show just waiting to happen.

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Don't know how many rides you boys have had on buses but speaking from experience they are no damned fun . Luxury buses ...lol..try to recline or catch any amount of good rest . If I am a first second or maybe even a third round pick I am staying home to heck with this charity garbage . Couldn't find a closer charity camp to give your time to ..oh say one in NE Ohio ? Mangini is now the H.C. of a team that is not in the New England states so he needs to find a worthy cause closer to home to support.

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These are 22-24 year old rookies mostly. They can suck it up and ride a luxury bus. That's how I got around, and guess what, with your friends it's not that bad.

It's not like it's my 80 year old grandma taking a bus. It's guys, my age. May be a lot bigger than me. But they're supposed to be tough football players, so yes, I say they can suck it up and go to Hartford (the armpit of CT) and volunteer and Mangini's camp.

May be if the guys learn to hate Mangini together, they'll have something in common. Like that Bear Bryant movie where he beat the heck out of those guys in his first season coaching college (I think it was his first). Or in Remember the Titans where Denzel did the same thing.

So yeah, I really feel no sympathy for them. I don't think it's unfair. Why do we pamper these guys? They're complaining about a 10 hour bus ride. It could be a lot worse, sounds to me like we might need to fly these complainers to Auschwitz and show them the cells which were so small that you couldn't sit down, so you died from exhaustion from standing up. Now that sucks. 10 hour bus ride, piece of cake.

Anyway, I really hate the articles that Mary Kay sometimes writes. I remember when Braylon took Northcutt's spot, and she immediately goes to Northcutt and badgers him with questions to basically force him to say he was pissed off. Now how does that help the team?

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I'm a Browns fan, Mary Kay Cabot is not. It's like the media wants to create controversy with the coach and try and make him fail. I'm tired of losing, she must not be. May be so that she can continue to write her negative articles about our team.

My aunt knows her (I believe Mary Kay lives in Rocky River or Bay Village) and says she's a nice person. I just wish she reported on something else other than the Browns, because she really brings nothing to the table.

can i volunteer to be kidnapped by the ladies at the playboy mansion? and imprisioned there for months on end?

bus travel would be fine...and i'd walk if i had too...

So I have a question about this.... WHO CARES?

Who cares if Mangini makes Friends? I would much rather him make a contender out of my team.

For now, he calls the shots regardless of motivation. If that means he pressures rookies to volunteer... so what!

If he manipulates players and the team as a whole plays better... then he's doing his job. If the team suffers, then he loses his job. All of you, who have no skin in the game but want to run the show from this forum... well I'd rather spend time talking about football, not minutia, wouldn't you?

I was up in arms over the talk about trading Quinn but at the end of the day I will always be a Browns fan. just my two cents worth.

Overall, sounds like it was definitely not worth the bus ride.

Youth camp a success
Zac Jackson, Staff Writer
05.31.2009

HARTFORD, CONN. - Teddy Atlas knows a thing or two about knockouts. But it was Atlas who was floored by what he saw Saturday afternoon.

At Bulkeley High School and adjacent Colt Park were 32 football fields, and all of them were full. Eric Mangini's Football Fundamentals Mini-Camp brought together almost 800 aspiring football players and paired them with some pretty good teachers. Among them were the Browns' entire coaching staff, Browns general manager George Kokinis, Jets head coach Rex Ryan and some of his assistants, the Browns' rookie class, a handful of Jets players and dozens of coaches from local colleges and high schools.

Mangini himself even did a little coaching -- "I just can't help myself," he said -- but this day was about more than teaching football. He started the day by encouraging all the coaches to "make a difference," and all proceeds from the camp will go to the Carmine and Frank Mangini Foundation to benefit under-resourced children.

Mangini said he wanted the high-school aged campers to know "that anything's possible. They control the decisions they make from here. If they make good choices, they can be successful."

Atlas, the longtime boxing trainer and commentator with whom Mangini has struck a friendship, bussed 50 kids to the camp from New York through the Dr. Theodore Atlas Foundation, which benefits kids and families in a variety of ways.

"Eric understands how fortunate he is to be in position to get the attention of kids, to try to make a difference," Atlas said. "It's important to let these kids have a day they can be taught things be good people and aspire to something. Maybe it lights a spark in their minds. Maybe all of them get something out of it, maybe 20 of them do. If it allows them go into a direction they otherwise wouldn't have, this is great.

"Those empty stands over there, that speaks loudly," Atlas continued. "All these kids out here and a not a lot of parents here to watch them. There's a reason these kids need attention. These coaches are working to find a way to give them some attention, and that's important.

"But I think the kids get more than that. They find out someone cares about them. They realize there's a worth to them. Too often they don't have that at home. Today there are a bunch of people telling them they care about them.

"I brought a kid whose father was murdered in the housing project where he lives in New York City. He has a bleak life. The most important thing is today he matters. He knows he matters. People take the time today to talk to him, to explain things to him to even maybe yell at him. And that's good, too. Because he knows he matters."

And that's the goal of Mangini's foundation, which the coach started with his brother, Kyle. The final count from the latest edition of the foundation's signature event: 760 campers from five states, and more than 300 volunteers. This was the camp's eighth year; Mangini said 230 attended the first year, and that this year's turnout was a record.

"It's special to bring kids from all different backgrounds together," Mangini said. "I can't give enough thanks to over 350 coaches and volunteers. These volunteers are tireless. It's well oiled."

The volunteers included some of Mangini's high school teachers and high school teammates; Browns' staffers; local police officers; trainers; and plenty of people who made sure the entire group was well fed. Mangini, Alex Mack, 2008 Jets' first-round pick Dustin Keller and Atlas addressed the group as a whole.

"Teddy is special. His foundation is amazing with the amount of lives he touches," Mangini said. "He's an inspiration and a real asset. It's great to have him here and have the kids he helps get to have a special day getting coached by a Rex Ryan or a Bryan Cox, getting to meet Alex Mack.

"Like Teddy says, you work with caring. When I was in high school here (at Bulkeley) Mike Singletary came in and spoke to us and came to practice with us. I remember thinking that Singletary had a lot going on and he took the time to come talk to us and try to help us along the way. I remember being struck by that and just kind of telling myself that if I was ever in position to give back, I'd try to make the most of it. That's part of the reason this day is so special."

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Overall, sounds like it was definitely not worth the bus ride.

so how did you arrive at this conclusion from reading the article?? it was record attendence, represented 5 states, over 300 volunteers including some Jets. Sounds positive to me.

I think he was being sarcastic. It needed a

THROW LONG - yup sounds like quite a farce of a charity. What a horrible, horrible thing Mangini did I can't believe that the hatred of Managini before he has done anything.

This article, to me, throws some egg on the face of agents and Mary Kay.

"Anyone with a brain knows there will be a price to pay if you choose not to "participate".

Sorry I find it hard to believe that with the NFL scrutiny as well as the NFLPA and Mangini himself with his STAFF (are they taking the trip - I think not). That a player's chance to start or make the team will be compromised because of this.

By Law he had to make this very clear. This is Voluntary - He knows the Law cause its not like he didn't do it from NY to Conn. a 4 hour Bus ride (Hofstra training camp).

If there is any disadvantage on not going - it would be the 20 hours of a Bus ride with MGini and possibly getting some one on one time with him. But then that was their decision no to go.

maybe a couple felt they had to go and complained to their agents...who are like MOMMY calling the principle on the teach!

Actually I have to say those who would think there IS A PRICE TO PAY...would be the ones without a BRAIN

JMHO

Well, feel free to disagree, but I have a brain and I think there would have been a price to pay. I have seen it happen in my own career over the years. Does that mean its necessarily the case for sure, all the time? No. But it is in this case, in my opinion.

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Mangini definitely put the doubt in the players' heads

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What BS. So I'm to believe that Mangini is making the rookies think that if they didn't "volunteer" they would have trouble making the team..
If what you say is true, they are some seriously weak minded individuals.

Some of the conspiracy crap that I read on these boards is mind numbing.

I want Mary Kay to go back and interview these disgruntled players now after they went. I bet their attitude has changed.

If you can play, you'll make the team. If you are on the bubble and didn't take part in "voluntary" extra-curricular activities, it may very well become part of the decision-making process if your competition for that one spot did "volunteer". I think that's the whole point ... it shouldn't matter, but I think it might and I'm guessing some of the rookies think so too.

If its between player A and player B... and both are close as far as talent.. both have made plays.. both have shown progress learning the system in the NFL...

One went to the voluntary camp.. the other didn't... It could give that certain player an advantage... so why even risk that being a decision factor? Just go.

I don't disagree. I'm saying that makes it not voluntary.

No it doesn't... It just shows that one player is commited to doing whatever it takes to have a spot on a 53 man roster..

Well, here's a mind numbing exercise for you then. Answer the following questions.

1. If you were one of these rookies, what would you do and why?

2. If you were providing advice to one of the rookies, what would you advise them to do and why?

If you're honest with yourself and either of these answers contains even just a hint of "it may look good if you do this" ... then that's what I'm talking about. Put yourself in their shoes.



I don't think what I said was funny, but if I can try to make you look bad by using the graemlins, then I'll get a big ego boost out of it.

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I want Mary Kay to go back and interview these disgruntled players now after they went. I bet their attitude has changed.

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Who cares? It's time to move on to move on to the next piece of dirt. That's the sad state of today's media.

What Dave is saying is correct. This decision was not truely "voluntary". I'm sure the rookies felt pressured to participate. Add that to the fact that the other rookies were going and then there was the possiblity of being an outlier. So no it wasn't voluntary in the purest sense of the word.

But that doesn't mean the fact that it wasn't completely voluntary means that the charity wasn't an excellent use of time for these rookies and a great cause for the kids served by it.

It sounds like a great program and I always got the sense watching Teddy Atlas over the years that he's a great guy. I think the rookies were very well served....to have the bonding experience with the coaches and other rooks....to see these kids that are having it rough....and to help out.

But anyone who thinks this was voluntary isn't really paying attention. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. And I think it's great that everyone went!

"By the way....the rookies took the bus.
Mangini flew private. Nice. "

"but I have a brain and I think there would have been a price to pay."

Just remember that was not exactly my choice of words - having a brain

"Put yourself in their shoes ... what would you think?"

I have and I know if I had another commitment or priorities for the weekend. I would have told him - another time another place possibly but I cannot make it. I'm sure he would respect.

Come on folks - we are talking about football, as much as Mangini believes in this charity he more believes that he is the HC of the Browns and nothing would take priority over that.

Surely you don't think if Mack, Robiskie, MoMas, DV or AAA declined to go their service for the Browns would be in jeopardy?

I can see the 3 6th rounders and all the UDFA thinking - I better go cause I don't want anybody to get a leg up on me.

But give me a break...you got all the position coaches first in line with evaluations to be given to Mangini regarding final cuts. Not one of those position coaches are going are they??? Why would any of them compromise themselves in such a manner to put a kid into a dog house.

The only way anybody with a "brain" can by into this retaliation bit is if they thought Mangini was a Dirt Bag as far as character goes. I know some of the media portray him like that cause he told on the Pats as if they are honorable and live by the code...

But Mangini is a pretty good guy.

JMHO

"By the way....the rookies took the bus.
Mangini flew private. Nice. "

Can you share...where did you read that???

Would have been nice if he took the bus too but he also might have stuff like that in his contract???

JMHO

It was also in Bud Shaw's column in today's Plain Dealer:


Eric Mangini takes Browns' rookies for a ride

Cleveland Plain Dealer
Bud Shaw
May 31, 2009

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Some players and agents are said to be upset with the Browns' head coach for piling his rookie class in a bus bound for Hartford, Conn. (10 hours away), so they could work his Saturday football camp.

One objection is that while Mangini categorized the trip to his one-day camp as voluntary, at least some of the rooks felt it wouldn't be in their best interest to decline since they're fighting for jobs and playing time.

In the same week Mangini told Josh Cribbs the team would move on without him if he kept pressing for a new contract, which first-year player wanted to stand up and say, "Hartford on a bus? No can do."


The Browns answered the criticism in an email from spokesman Neal Gulkis, who admitted Mangini had some reservations about the trip before determining that it was "a good opportunity to be exposed to this type of event" and that working the camp could "improve them professionally, build team unity and also help serve the community."

Connecticut? Community?

There's closer community here, no? Russia was nearer Sarah Palin's porch than Hartford is to Cleveland.

All in all, this isn't something that should be used to define Mangini or his coaching philosophy, but it does seem a rather extreme way to build team unity.

Couldn't he have spared his rookies 20 hours on a bus in between last week's minicamp and the organized training activities that begin Monday? Maybe just let them build all that unity through sack races at the Berea Fairgrounds?

Mangini flew to Hartford for the camp while the rookies rode the bus. He planned on joining them for the bus ride home, though, which one can only imagine lifted their spirits.

Free transportation!

With a chaperone!

And, what, a 20-hour continuous loop of "Rudy" as entertainment? Good times.

What more could they want? Airfare?

Oh, that.

The NFL Players Association says the Browns are not breaking any rules as long as the trip was voluntary and players faced no repercussions for declining the "invitation."

The Browns say no one complained directly to the team or the head coach.

Hey, what part of "voluntary" don't these critics understand?

Any one of these guys could've said, 'sorry, would love to go, coach, but I reserve Saturdays for rotating my shoe trees.'

It was their call, no strings attached.

In the same way you're given a clear-cut choice when your wife tells you she really doesn't want anything for her birthday.

Seriously, she insists, a card would be fine.

Go ahead. Make her day.

How many have been roped into or volunteered to do something that your heart wasn't quite into? Normally, something happens on a trip or event like that that sticks with you forever. Some anticdote or something that always comes
up in a "remember when" type conversation.

I'd bet the farm there will be something similar on the trip up or back or both.

Most likely some friendships were made or bonds strengthened among these guys that we may never hear about.

Load the boys on the bus for a 10hr.ride,bid them farewell with "maybe I'll catch a ride home with you cats" then take a nap before your plane leaves.
Nothing at all wrong with that behavior.

Not like they could say no.

So he's an assbag for taking a plane while the players take the bus, but if he rides home with them it would ruin their trip.