DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A pre-pimp look at the draft.

Savage will pick best player available with the 1st pick. Then Oline and Dline.

Since you seem to be directing that at me.. I'll give you a qualified answer..

Yes, If Bentley is okay, we re-sign Fraley and if we think we can draft a quality Guard in the 2nd.

If those 2 conditions do not exist and we have Thomas on the board.. then we take Thomas.

My thoughts exactly, if Thomas is not on the Board, I would take Peterson and get some guards in the later rounds.

From what I have seen of Thomas and Levi Brown, I think Thomas is much more ready to go as a pro.

The more I think onnit, I want to make sure that it's understood I'm answering the question in it's context.. My preference is to replace the Guards in this years draft. The interior of the line is in a lot of trouble. Good guards are available in the 2nd round.. who we take in the 1st round is the big question.

Defensive tackle. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Thomas, Blaylock or Grubbs....one of them will be there where ever we draft in round one. Beyond that...Studdard or Mozes as guards in the second round. Justin Harrell DT in round three.....

1st round best Defensive lineman available
2nd round best guard
3rd best player at O-line or D-line


FA signings

1. Guard
2. CB
3. O-Tackle, shaffer can play right if needed.
4. DEf. Lineman

J/C, I posted this in another thread, but I take Thomas if he's available. This may sound complex, but hear me out. If we take Thomas, he is the LT. We move Schaffer to RT (he is used to protecting the QB's front side). Move Tucker in to RG (he is still a very good OL, but has lost a step to the outside so moving him to guard will lengthen his career...keeping him on the right side allows him an easier transition). Re-sign Fraley and have him and LB cover the C and LG spot (Bentley was a Pro Bowler at guard, so that's easy enough). With one draft pick we solidify the entire line and then add depth in the draft and with a healthy Sowells (hopefully). There isn't that much of a continuity issue because Thomes is in his natural position, Schaffer is back to doing what he's always done in protecting the QB's front side, Tucker has his "lost step" negated by taking away the outside rush responsibilities, Bentley has played at the highest level at guard, and Fraley is a very good center with quality guards beside him.

[color:"orange"]LT, for a myriad of reasons mentioned in this thread.

If Schaffer had played up to snuff this season, this wouldnt be a discussion.

If we grab a Joe Thomas/Sam Baker/Jared Gaither in the first, give me a DLman in the 2nd and an OG in the third.[/color]

On the flip side, if we had been set at center all through training camp and solid at the guard spots... basically had a solidifed & stable middle, then that LT spot might not look as bad. Time alone can fix a lot with a line.

To re-address this thread from the perspective of the Draft.... IF a "premier" LT prospect is sitting at our pick, I think you have to pull the trigger, though my preference right now is for a CB or another OLB. Where we'll be picking, there won't be any Guards worthy of that pick in the 1st round. In the 2nd round though, there should be plenty of Guards and we need to come away with the best damn one we can.... and maybe even repeat in the 3rd round (depending on Sowells).

Keep in mind, Savage likes to draft defence and sign FA Offense, players can contribute quicker on Defence they say ?

[color:"orange"]Right now we are picking 6th...dropping from 8th.

I'm struggling on wanting us to kick butt and win out going to middle of the road draft pick. Or kick butt and just lose...but garnishing that Joe Thomas pick which would do us more good in 07 and beyond than any win in 06.

But the mentality of this young team is fragile...they are at the crossroads of blowing up mentally or sticking with the program and getting better! They need a win or two or 3 to get in that proper frame of mind.

But Joe Thomas <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I've never rooted for us to lose and won't start. But never been this perplexed on what is best for this team right now...Wins for their ego to get better...losses as long as we don't jump ship to get finally the LT that we so need!

What to do <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well you have to draft offense sooner or later...

I don't know if I'd say that "he likes to do that" as much as I would say it's the route he used so far to try to keep us competitive. You can only do so much per year so we would either have young linemen and veteran defense or young defense and veteran linemen. He wanted veteran linemen for the young QB, which means we focused on defense in the Draft.

I would expect a shift in that philosophy this year.

Coach,

Believe it or not, I'm not entirely opposed to your idea. What makes it workable is in theory with a Joe Thomas type, you are locking down a position for (hopefully 8 - 10 years) The next replacement down the road would be Tucker and that would be in the following years draft if I read you correctly.

That sounds like a good plan, especially after watching Shaeffer get blown back on every play on Sunday. The only question is if Bentley makes it back, and when. And that is a BIG if.
Assuming it doesn't look like he'll be back for at least the start of the season, I say draft BPA D-line, RB or corner in round 2 and draft for depth at guard rounds 3-4.

[color:"red"] If we take Thomas, he is the LT. We move Schaffer to RT (he is used to protecting the QB's front side). Move Tucker in to RG (he is still a very good OL, but has lost a step to the outside so moving him to guard will lengthen his career...keeping him on the right side allows him an easier transition). Re-sign Fraley and have him and LB cover the C and LG spot (Bentley was a Pro Bowler at guard, so that's easy enough [/color]

Well I have similar thoughts although I'm not sure they would move Tucker inside.
Anyway..if Thomas is there when we select U do take him..then in the second U look for a interior linemen..like Blalock.
This is the draft for Phil to focus on the line..three first round picks...two need to be Olinemen unless he does soething dramatic in FA.

[color:"orange"]That sounds great, if only it could work out that way.

I've argued in the past that Schaffer would be a better fit at RT [/color]

When I first saw the topic I was going to respond by saying the same thing you did Coach. The one thing that might change all of that is how healthy LCB comes back. Either way you still take Thomas and get the guard in the 2nd or 3rd round (hopefully a d-lineman in the other). If LCB comes back healthy than your right you've upgraded the line with one pick and you can use one of your first day picks on a CB.

[color:"white"]Here's how you beat that one Eo. Take it from someone that has rooted for the draft pick <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Root for the developement of the youngsters. That's it. As long as the kids are turning into good players, we'll develop where it's important. If they play hard and lose close games, that isn't the end of the world.

We weren't going to be a .500 team this year, so rooting for the developement while simultaneously hoping for Thomas doesn't make you a bad fan.

Now if we can just hope for a Cardinals winning streak we'll be in business.[/color]

Barring them catching late fire... We can kiss our Wet Joe Thomas Dream goodbye... He WILL be a Cardinal in April.. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]The silver lining is that we'll end up with the #1 rated NT, CB, DE, or rush OLB in the draft. We'll also have our choice of guards.

I want Thomas, but the alternatives aren't bad. [/color]

LOL...The only thing that catches fire in Arizona is the underbrush.....Bye, Bye Joe

O really???????????

The ONLY spot they won't take is a QB...

If Peterson is there I'd bet he's a Card...

Don't think they won't slip Ross over to LT to replace the departing Leonard Davis...Denny Green's all about O...And James is diminishing quick-like...

Houston is the Thomas team at 4 right now...Dare I say LOSE to them...lol...

Thomas
Peterson
Branch

CANNOT LOSE if we stay top 5...

Would we take a DE to convert to OLB at 7 or 8>>>Gaines???

[color:"white"]With what they gave James and with the obvious faults of the line, I can't see them taking a back.

Then again, Green is pretty much a lame duck coach, so anything is possible. Still......[/color]

Gotta disagree with ya bubba... Az has invested 3 yes 3 1st Rd. DP's on WR and each of them is studding out... (wish we could have that problem)

RB?? GMAFB man!! They just inked Edge to a HUGE contract in the offseason and his skills didn't diminish on the flight from Indy into Phoenix... Yes AZ's O-Line is THAT bad but I know that you see that...

So, IMHO and yes it is an opinion... Calvin Johnson is outta the equation, Adrian Peterson will most likely go to Houston and they just got Leinhert and he looks to be a stud so yes, I truly see Az snagging Joe Thomas...

Who says Denny will be there at seasons end, There calling for his head

Just my .02

Well.........Joe Thomas is probably out of the equation at this point. Unless Arizona miraculously beats 2 of their 5 remaining opponents ( St. Louis, Seattle, Denver, San Fran and San Diego), we're not going to have a shot at him. I don't see one win on that remaining schedule IMO.

Also, they've invested a lot of DP's and money in WR, QB and RB.......... all player positions that will be top 5 selections (other then Thomas). For us to have a chance at Thomas, Arizona has to pass on him and with a struggling OL and a young franchise QB, I don't see how that's even possible. Not only that but we would have to lose out, which I really just don't see that happening.

At this point, I actually have to root against Michigan and hope that Alan Branch doesn't return for his senior season. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Branch would plug a hole on the DL for the next 10-12 years and is the protoype 3-4 DT/DL. 6'6'', 330 LBS........big, strong and tough enough to stop the run and athletic enough to play DE untill big Ted is finished. IMO he's the ideal pick if Thomas is gone. We obviously need to address the OL but I don't think you reach on an OT when a DT like Branch is sitting there, especially given how important the position is to a 3-4 defense.

The other option is DE/Rush LB or CB. I like Gaines Adams but there really isn't a corner that I think is worthy of a top 5 pick. For that matter, I'm not sure if Adams is either. I know Leon Hall is the top rated CB but he didn't look great against OSU. He's been very good all year, so I'm not sure i should put too much stock in one so-so game but it's just something to think about. I'll be curious to see what he puts up in the 40. If it's not 4.4 or better I think he's going to slide. . If we're looking somewhere other then DT (and Thomas is gone), we might as well trade down. We could add a pick and target the #2 or #3 tackle or the #1 OG.

Whether Thomas is there or not..we still have to address both sides of the ball..even if THOMAS is gone..there are other linemen and other picks..
If Branch comes out , where will he be ranked?
Don't know , but if he's a top twenty pick..and we don't have a Oline to draft with the first pick..better look his way.
Second round..go for a olinemen...they will slot themselves someway for one to be there..it happens every freaking year and there is ALWAYS(go check each draft from 99) a quality OG sitting there in the second round..and we have always passed for one reason or another...think if Phil had taken McNeil or Andrew Whitworth in the second?
Would we even need Butler ?Nope.

Fitz and Bryant Johnson were 1st rounders...Boldin was a 2nd.


and it seems like Denny Green may be done....so its just gonna be up to the new regime.

HACK

[color:"white"]Is Gabe Watson still available? *poke* <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I haven't done enough research on Adams to determine if he can transition to OLB. I see his name brought up a bunch, but nothing about shifting positions. [/color]

So Arizona has draft WR, QB, signed a top RB and have somewhat neglected thier O-Line and they cant win a game...hummmm sound framilur...Maybe the saying win the line battle win the game is true... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Just talkin' out loud here.

While I brought up the same point about a new regime, that won't change the fundamental holes on that team, and right now, the line is what's keeping that team from being any good. Just ask James <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

With Davis looking as though left tackle isn't his best position as well as his impending free agency, it's hard to see them not eyeing Thomas. The one ray of light is that Berriand went down with a serious injury.[/color]

[color:"orange"]Branch is an entirely different player, the only thing those two share in common is size...Branch is a better prospect than Ngata was/is IMO.

Think Richard Seymour, only bigger. [/color]

[color:"orange"]Has anyone here actually watched a Zona game.

I've seen 3 - starting with the Bears game.

I have keyed on Leonard Davis for two reasons...

1. I pimped him in the 01 draft and now he is in his 2nd season at LT.
2. He looks to be a FA in 07 unless Zona becomes another of many who franchise their LT.

But my perception of the current regime not knowing of course if and how much that will change in the off season.

But my perception is that they don't want to make that "$$$" big time investment into the rare and coveted LT position simply because they have a Lefty QB who's blind side is the RT and lesser expensive of the two Tackle positions.

Because of this they have sort of made it known that they were not going to pursue Davis much...

Well a funny thing happened on the way to the Forum...I've watched Davis and in those 3 games he has played...not good but great!

On pass plays he's got his man engulfed and he was playing against some premier talent.

On running plays he is blocking his man 5,6,7 yds downfield while all hell breaks loose behind the void he creates and it goes for naught. I mean I've been very impressed by his play.

Now just cause I pimped a guy 5,6 years ago doesn't mean I'm going to be swayed by that and just imagine all this great play. Either it is real or I'm a friggen idiot (don't all answer that in haste...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ). Now why would they let one bonafide LT stud walk and then invest in another. How do they get better? They would waste an overall #1 draft pick or #2 where ever they land just to stay right where they were. They would Franchise Davis...if they let him walk its not cause they are dissatisfied with him they would take the approach the Falcons take...Stud LT is not as valuable to them as others teams its a gem they don't need to fill. In mega Cap money or Draft pick.

It would be a contradiction...let Leonard walk - then draft Thomas. Don't make sense to me.

Texans cant' see them passing up on Thomas.
Zona
Lions got Backus
Raiders have Gallery
Tampa Anthony Davis (remember Butch was hot on him as a UDFA???) maybe but somewhere they got to go Defense and they went OL on 1st n 2nd round last year.
Texans - I don't see Thomas getting past here.

That will suck unless we move up with the Bucs to get him???

[color:"white"]Ok. Enough allready Eo. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Forget all the pimpin'. You're wrong. Dead wrong. I mean honestly take a look at what you're basing you're entire premise on when it comes to Davis: That the Cardinals are going to actually do something that may be construed as being based on common sense <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

[color:"orange"] U're a friggen idiot!! [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

The question is ..if they let Davis go, what would they do for LT?
Now they could draft Thomas and put him at RT..NO I'M not crazy <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]With that being said, I have seen Davis looking slow against speed rushers this year. Think led-footed like Shelton. The other thing to consider with Davis is that he's not really found a home. He's gone from both tackle positions to guard. Hard to figure why.

We can say the Cards didn't know what they had in him, or we can say they knew what they were doing. I think the best way to answer this question is bittorrent <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Any volunteers? I'll take a gander at him and see what I can see.[/color]

[color:"red"]"The other thing to consider with Davis is that he's not really found a home. He's gone from both tackle positions to guard. Hard to figure why."

[color:"orange"]Very misleading the way that is phrased.

Zona actually had a wealth of talent at OTs when Davis came on board...there was no rush and they let him learn his way.

04, 05 and 06 have been at LT. He was switched to LT in the 04 pre-season.

Prior to that he was primarily the RG...in 2002 Clement got injured and he played RT that year in his place and then went back to his RG position in 03.

But he's been the LT since 04 no bouncing around...he played the one season at RT due to OL injuries.

I have read bad things on him in Pre-season stuff but that what was so curious as I saw that Bears game and I'm like - wow Davis looks good and then watched some more specifically just keying on him. Their OL unit Sucks!!! But Davis many times by himself without chip blockers is the only entity on that OL doing something. I was very impressed with him.

Yes I understand this would assume Zona's organization would have to be sensible in thier thought process. I'm thinking they are....owners are still cheap but aren't calling the shots with personnell???

JMHO

[color:"white"]What, like I was being serious with the comment about their common sense? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't want to put the jink on him, but he can't be any worse than Shaffer <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> [/color]