DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns adjusting to disciplinarian Mangini in offseason of change

I liked this read and thought it should be shared. Also I like what Joe Thomas has to say about practicing in the rain.

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BEREA, Ohio -- Under a slate-gray sky and a steady rain, the Cleveland Browns on Thursday went about the business of trying to put back the shattered pieces of the tremendous hope that they had on the very same practice field 12 months earlier.

There's nothing pretty or fun about such a process, just as there was nothing pretty or fun about all that had taken place since the end of last offseason.

Back then, the Browns were the darlings of the NFL. They offered the promise that they were, finally, going to escape from their perpetual malaise. A 10-6 finish in 2007, plus a batch of Pro Bowl performances, gave the distinct notion that, for the first time in a long while, they were about to become relevant.

Browns' offseason moves
It's been an offseason of turnover for the Browns. Here are the additions to the roster since the arrival of new coach Eric Mangini:

Free agents:
LB Eric Barton (from Jets)
LB David Bowens (from Jets)
OT George Foster (from Lions)
WR Mike Furrey (from Lions)
RB Noah Herron (from Bucs)
CB Roderick Hood (from Cardinals)
CB Corey Ivy (from Ravens)
DT C.J. Mosley (from Jets)
WR David Patten (from Saints)
DB Hank Poteat (from Jets)
TE Robert Royal (from Bills)
OT John St. Clair (from Bears)
OT Floyd Womack (from Seahawks)

Trade:
DE Kenyon Coleman (from Jets)
DB Abram Elam (from Jets)
QB Brett Ratliff (from Jets)


Draft:
C Alex Mack
WR Brian Robiskie
WR Mohamed Massaquoi
DE David Veikune
LB Kaluka Maiava
CB Don Carey
CB Coye Francies
RB James Davis

» Free agency: Browns' moves
» 2009 draft: Browns' selections After going 4-12 and firing coach Romeo Crennel and general manager Phil Savage, the Browns are trying to reinvent themselves. They have a new coach, Eric Mangini, who brought a sea of change to the team's culture with an approach that is far more disciplined than that of his ultra-mellow predecessor. They have yet to pick a starting quarterback, who will run a new offense that players are still trying to learn.

One of their most recognizable players, tight end Kellen Winslow, was traded to Tampa Bay. Another, wide receiver Braylon Edwards, came close to being shipped out as well.

What's a little rain on a minicamp workout for a club already flooded by so much change?

"It's a lot of discipline," running back Jamal Lewis said. "It's just finding out who the players are and who's going to come out here and give hard work and effort because neither one knows the other. The coaching staff doesn't know a lot of the players, the players don't know a lot of the coaching staff.

"On the coaching staff part of it, it's all about trying to get the guys on the same page as the coaching staff, and for the players, it's all about just going out there to let the coaches know that you're ready to work and you're ready to buy into what's going on."

It hasn't been the easiest sell for Mangini, whom Browns owner Randy Lerner was quick to present with Mangini's second NFL head-coaching chance after he was fired by the New York Jets at the end of last season.

Mangini runs a highly structured, precise operation that leaves very little room for anything that doesn't have to do with the chore at hand. Other than adhering to NFL rules that prohibit pads to be worn and contact to be made, his offseason practices are no different than those run during the season. Rain isn't going change the routine, even though there's a perfectly dry indoor facility right next to the outdoor fields.

Not all of the players were happy to be getting soaked in June while running on a slippery surface. Offensive tackle Joe Thomas happened to love it, but he was as surprised as anyone that the session wasn't moved inside.

"All the coaches that I've ever had, from college on, if it's raining, we're inside," Thomas said. "That's something that's different for me. Some guys will say it's good, some guys will say it's bad, but it's just different."

So, too, is having members of the Green Berets, the special forces of the United States Army based in Fort Bragg, N.C., assist with the coaching of each position group during minicamp drills. The idea, according to Mangini, was to give his players a chance to learn all that they can from being around an elite group of men in another profession.



"For these (soldiers), the selection process to even be considered to be a Green Beret is intense," Mangini said. "They have to distinguish themselves individually and then, once they get into a group, the intense level of teamwork and communication and focus and things they have to do to function as a unit is incredible. The other great lesson is, no matter how hard you may think our practices are or the things we're asking our players to do, it gives you a sense of perspective of what they're asked to do and what they're asked to sacrifice."

The fact Mangini is a stickler for detail is also something new for incumbent Browns players. They were used to Crennel's more casual style.

Now, they must adjust to the fact that there is nothing too small to escape Mangini's attention.

"Something as trivial as maybe picking your tape up at the end of a practice instead of just throwing it on the field," Thomas said. "The little things are very important to him, and I think that's a lot of times the difference between a good team or an average team and a great team."

Edwards, who was the subject of rampant speculation of a trade that would send him to the New York Giants to replace Plaxico Burress, has never been known for being all that big on discipline. Crennel had a high level of tolerance, but even he had his limits when it came to Edwards' free-wheeling tendencies that sometimes ran counter to team rules. Crennel would occasionally pull the receiver aside to set him straight.

Browns' offseason spotlight
What happened to Braylon Edwards in 2008? More to the point, what can the Browns expect from him in '09? Charley Casserly and Solomon Wilcots offer their takes. More ...

» Fantasy: Is Edwards an elite WR? Surprisingly, Edwards has kept himself on the straight and narrow for Mangini. He has not complained about being on the trading block, choosing instead to take it as a compliment that the Browns wanted more than the Giants were willing to offer in a trade.

"If you allow your personal feelings to interfere, especially in a negative way, it's going to hurt the team and it's going to hurt yourself," Edwards said. "So you really have to approach it from a business standpoint. You have to do your job. Be on time; that's not hard to do. Take notes in meetings. Have a positive attitude."

That hasn't always been easy this offseason. For instance, Mangini sent some shockwaves around the league in the final weekend of May when he arranged for his rookies to take a 20-hour bus ride round trip from Cleveland to Hartford, Conn., to take part in his charity football camp for children from low-income families. The trip was billed as "voluntary," although all 19 Browns rookies made it, presumably because they thought failing to do so might jeopardize their standing with Mangini.

None of those who went on the journey complained publicly, but there were some private complaints from veterans as well as from rookies. The Cleveland Plain-Dealer reported that the NFL Players Association was looking into the matter.

"I was happy to have (that) weekend off," Thomas said with a laugh.

By most accounts, everyone has gotten over the flap and has moved on.

But there are other key unresolved issues, the largest of which is who will start at quarterback: Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson.



Regular media observers say that none of the quarterbacks on the roster, including Brett Ratliff and Richard Bartel, has looked particularly impressive through most of the offseason workouts. However, Quinn did throw some of the better passes of the offseason this week.

Quinn and Anderson have been careful about what they say to the media about the competition. They've been down this road before and seem extra cautious not to do anything that might not play well with the new coach.

"It's an opportunity to go out and win or lose the job," Anderson said.

That could apply to many incumbent Browns players who are trying to figure out what to do and what not to do to remain on the right side of Mangini.

It isn't easy.

"It's a change and it's tough for different guys," Thomas said. "But I think, overall, guys have taken it pretty well and they're going to adapt pretty well."

"Everybody starts off with a clean slate, I believe," said Edwards. "If somebody tells you something, you believe it for what it's worth until they give you reason to believe otherwise."

Translation: If the Browns start winning, the new regime will continue to have everyone's undivided attention; if they don't, they won't.

There are two pretty good videos on that link as well. Check them out.

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"If you allow your personal feelings to interfere, especially in a negative way, it's going to hurt the team and it's going to hurt yourself," Edwards said. "So you really have to approach it from a business standpoint. You have to do your job. Be on time; that's not hard to do. Take notes in meetings. Have a positive attitude."

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So why haven't you taken your own advice, Braylon?

I watched this interview with him on the "official" site. At first I was thinking the same thing you are. Then I went back and watched it again. My feelings changed.

I actually was impressed with the way he handled the interview. There was a different feel to the way he was talking. He sounded mature to me, compared to the way he has in the past. This is a contract year for him, I'm sure that has something to do with his attitude, but to me it seemed more sincere.

Last year was hard for him and the fans. The comments he made after the season made it worse. The immaturity of him and some of the fans, like those hassling him and his family. The whole Michigan thing, again by both him and some simple minded fans. And the most important thing, his lack of concentration, IMO that was his problem with the drops. All these things could easily mess up a young man's mind, especially one with an ego like his.
What I saw, or think I saw in that interview, was a guy that was humbled by his actions, and by a new regime that many were convinced would throw him to the curb for his attitude. Mangini, has done the opposite it appears. He saw a guy with talent, and an immatured attitude, and let him know that the past means nothing. I believe, no way to prove it, but it just seems to me, that Mangini pushed the right buttons. Just like the difference with Rogers after he met with him. Their egos were stroked, and the reality of what their talent means to the team and their careers was brought into focus.

I am looking for Edwards to be a beast this year. You can see how he loved the way the rookies are looking up to him. Guys with big egos love that stuff. Maybe he has grown up a little. Maybe the comment that he felt the staff thought he was worth more than the nice offers we had for him, made him feel better about the situation. Either way, to me, the situation looks good.

Many talk bad about Mangini, mostly the press, but just like the drill sergeant that all recruits despise at first because of their disipline and routine, I am starting to believe that once a player sees who the guy is for real, they see that his ways are for a reason. A reason that could benefit them and the team.

It's early, I know, but this is what this team has needed. A direction. Maybe it will prove to be the wrong direction, who knows, but it is a definite plan. And I have to believe that that is what most of us have been looking for since '99.

Nice read,....I really like the attitude that Mangini's bringing to practice, but for some reason this whole "Green Beret" thing seems alittle odd.

I understand the connection to the mindset of a Green Beret and how that can translate to teamwork for a football team, but for the life of me I can't see how they can mesh together on football field.

What does a Green Beret know about football? Are these practices part football and part basic training?......ughh,....where's KW2 when you need him.

Your mastery of the obvious is impressive.

A new style of studying but it is not test day yet.

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'Bout damned time our coach actually runs the team instead of the other way around.

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Of course, we had a coach like that before Crennel and most of you guys hated him. But please continue your fawning........

Yeah, all those Jets he brought over.....no favorites there.

An on going philosophy of ManG in his camp (considering its been painted all over the place!)

Has been:
COMMUNICATION
TRUST
FINISH

Who better to administer that leadership then a Special Op - Green Beret (or any other special op branch) If football is a sport best to exemplify those characters noted as necessary for team work. Why not, also who on that field would not respect the ULTIMATE sacrifice these MEN make (don't think women are in special op forces yet??? ) and makes the sacrifice of simply hard work pale in comparison and easy to dig deep down and give their all.

Are teams damned if they do not follow this example....no way.

But it sure can't hurt and it does give these patriots a sense of worth and appreciation to teach what team work and leadership is all about!

Crazyotto - Butch was no where consistent with his discipline...horrible example of a disciplinarian coach as it was selective.

As for the Jets brought in...show me one instance where he has shown favoritism - possibly they don't run laps cause they understand the do's and don'ts about ManG's practices. Actually they were brought in here to exemplify and lead by example in their hustle and no-nonsense across the board discipline.

ManG makes BQ run a lap just like he would a UDFA. Just cause the Jets brought in have not earned a punishment does not signify favoritism. No comparison to Butch and ManG as far as the discipline being asked. I have seen nothing but respect from the players regarding it. From Rogers to BE.

JMHO

I think that 3 seasons as a head coach is a pretty decent basis, and you have to admit a hell of a lot more than we had on any of our previous Expansion Era coaches.

I'm sure there was swooning over RAC and Butch as well. It was also their first stint as NFL head coaches.

We do know that Mangini has had 3 seasons. Two of which were winning and one of which was a playoff berth with a bad team. The other season was 4-12 which was pretty bad, but did include a victory over Pittsburgh I might add.

We know that he's a very smart head coach, has some questionable game day decisions and advocates discipline. We also know that he's capable of putting together a playoff team and that he can put together a functional scheme against some of the NFL's best teams (Titans).

j/k

For all his faults Butch is the only HC to get the Browns to the playoffs in the expansion era. Problem was he scewed the pooch when it comes to the salary cap and the next year we had to purge a ton of solid veterans.

Yes, that was my point. Thanks for making it better than I did.

As I said when all of our coaches were first hired..... "How's about we wait until we've played a couple games that mean something before we start pouring the bust for the HOF?"

Now, back to the lovefest......

I think there's a difference between making a bust for a coach and liking what the coach is currently doing.

I don't see anyone here talking about how we're going to win the Super Bowl with this squad, but I think it's fair for people to say how they like the things that Mangini is currently doing.

" I bet the optimism was overflowing before he even coached a game."

And Butch for that matter.

Difference is - Mangini has coached a game already...48 of them

I understand what you're saying and I agree.

Problem is I think we're debating different topics...

I think the reason people like me are thrilled, besides the fact that it's the offseason and I'd take any morsel of Browns news right now to satisfy my complete addiction, is that we finally did hire someone who has had prior coaching experience which is a first in the expansion era, and we're thrilled about how he is running a disciplined camp.

So I think I am thrilled because:
1. I like what we did to get Mangini.
2. I like what we're doing now with Mangini as head coach.

Based on the lack of sufficient information, I am not thrilled with:
Where we are headed, although I remain hopeful based off of points 1 and 2 above.

So I don't think that we even really differ with the points we're making. You also have to remember that it's the offseason and we're all anxious as hell.

Ain't it funny how everything becomes a love or hate thing. You can't comment on liking the guy's approach, without being accused of crowning him the next best thing.

I've read so many comments by others just expressing that it is refreshing the way he is handling things, only to be twisted into sounding like they are saying he's taking us to the big game.

Brown likes what he sees from Mangini


By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff report
Posted Jun 13, 2009 @ 08:11 PM
BEREA —

Once upon a time in Berea, Phil Savage and Eric Mangini squeezed into the kind of offices young underlings live with.

Bill Belichick was their boss. Mangini’s office happened to be just down the hall from Jim Brown’s.

The world has turned quite a bit for Savage, Mangini and Belichick.

Not so much for Brown. He still has an office in Berea, not far from the captain’s chair now commanded by Mangini.

Jim Brown is still Jim Brown. He never stopped being a dynamo from the past with a deep voice in the present.

As things have evolved, many new Browns are ultrasensitive about saying anything that might get them in trouble with Mangini.

Brown isn’t one of them. It was more than brown-nosing when he heaped praise on the new head coach Saturday at the end of minicamp.

“I see a man that runs the show,” Brown said as players left the field. “What you have is a man with a plan, and it’s about football.”

The Savage-Romeo Crennel relationship cracked early on. The expanding canyon between them showed up in last year’s 4-12 finish.

Savage the general manager had more power than Crennel the head coach.

“When you understand the concept of team — and football is a team sport — then you get certain kind of result,” Brown said. “But when you’re allowing individuality to take over your organization ...

“You can’t have one or two guys with more influence than the coach.”

Two guys? Brown declined to use names, but he did answer a question about the difference between the last regime and the new one.

“You’ve got one boss,” Brown said, “and you know who he is. And the boss knows what he’s doing.

“He’s emphasizing intelligence and understanding more than just ‘your job.’ Those are all the things we did with the ’64 team.”

Brown was the biggest name on the 1964 Browns team that beat the Baltimore Colts, 27-0, in the NFL title game that still stands as Cleveland’s last pro sports championship.

Brown said a theme of mutual respect pervaded. Players’ opinions counted with the brass.

“We didn’t make the kind of mistakes you make when you don’t know what you’re doing,” Brown said.

It remains to be seen if Mangini knows how to extract the Browns from a six-year funk. Brown likes that Mangini is bringing in the players he wants, in consort with General Manager George Kokinis, rather than accepting what the GM insists is best.

“Toughness comes from being confident in what you’re doing and having players with that attitude,” Brown said. “So, if Mangini goes and gets the players he wants, you may not understand it, but he understands it.

“I can see it just looking at certain drills.”

Brown loves a tackling drill that simulates full-speed collisions. It promises to produce some of the juicier moments of training camp, when full contact will be allowed.

“A tackling drill exposes you,” Brown said. “That requires a mental toughness you’ve got to deal with.”

Brown has been a top adviser to team owner Randy Lerner in recent years. Savage seemed to feel an uneasy tension as he coexisted with the Hall of Fame running back. It was harder to gauge Crennel’s thoughts about Brown.

Mangini, on the other hand, wasn’t hard to read Saturday. He beamed when asked about Brown.

“I’m a pretty giant fan of Jim Brown,” Mangini said. “When he spoke to the rookies (at a minicamp) ... it was powerful.

“I’ve known him for a while. I’ve respected him forever.”

I like it.

It has been a long time since I felt we were on a good track pointed in the proper direction.

We may not get there, but it won't be because we got stalled at the station.

With the proper talent, Mangini's plan and method can take us there.

"I just notice we as a fanbase tend to get a little overexicted."

Of course...we are after all FANs! As long as our enthusiasm does not turn into disgust if things don't work out as planned. I get as positive as anyone but I know everything will not happen perfectly. What I do like is that it seems as those imperfections happen we are building a team with good depth to overcome them

Some forget that Kokinis actually is good at what he does.

JMHO - oh and I'd like to add many who have seemed pessimistic over the years are showing excitement over our new regime. This to me is another sign we actually are close. But guys like Peen n Diam have always been very cautious in their praising of the teams future season. When they gush about our prospects...I feel the time is near

j/c

Obviously, we as fans are going to be excited whenever we see a change in the organization after a very disappointing prior regime. But here's where I see a difference: When we came back, we had Chris Palmer - a first time head coach. After he failed, we hired Butch Davis - a first time NFL head coach. After he failed we hired Romeo Crennel - a first time head coach.

See the pattern? Now we have Mangini, who just spent three years as a head coach and compiled a record of 23-25, just below .500, with a team that wasn't very talented when he took over. He would have made the playoffs this year if not for a late season collapse by future hall of famer, Brett Favre.

Mangini has already proven that he can be an NFL head coach. I don't know about you, but I'd say .500 would be a nice change around here.

I'm just so used to being disappointed. It's easier to hold back a little and be surprised than to go in with high expectations. I really like Mangini a lot, and I have a good feel that maybe we got it right this time. But feelings and actuality are two different things. Plus, I think a little bit of luck is needed as well. Will we get the right mixture of leadership, talent, and luck? Man, I hope so. We are due.

our schedule will be a huge help... Kind of like in 2007.

The problem with many many posters having very high expectations and proclaiming that "we're close", is the fact that we're not close and to expect better than .500 is not realistic this year.

Then when we're out the gate at 1-3 people want to burn the stadium down.

I am pleased with about all of Mangini has done. I am glad to see that he has broken out of the casual "popular" coach as pal framework. He seems to have these guys focused. He has shed some problems, confronted some people problems that are attitudinal, and seems to prepare well, and sweat details. More than that, discipline is expected, it is practiced, and it is long overdue IMO. If you have read Lombardi and Brown and others, discipline and desire to win are one in the successful player who will win, the champions. Can't split it, like WB Yeats asking "how can we separate the dancer from the dance." If you fail to focus and prepare, you get horrible seasons like Edwards had. The bad year angered me; the reaction to leading the entire NFL, every other bloody player had fewer drops, and he was casual, and wanted fans listen to his explaining it away. I need him to be better, to arrive, to lead, to achieve. I am done listening to any bilge he can put on paper; catch the ball and score! Period. The you will have something to talk about that I may want to read. Clamp it till then.

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proclaiming that "we're close", is the fact that we're not close and to expect better than .500 is not realistic this year.

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why??? ... this team is BETTER than the 07 team ... and the schedule is favorable ... IF we stay HEALTHY .....

look at our teams .. this one is BETTER ... so why is expecting us to compete not realistic??? ..

and personally ... I think we have a better shot of starting 4 - 0 then we do 1 - 3 ...