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By HYUNG-JIN KIM, Associated Press Writer Hyung-jin Kim, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 53 mins ago SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea accused Washington of seeking to "provoke a second Korean War" as the regime prepared to hold maritime military exercises off the eastern coast. U.S. and regional authorities were watching closely for signs that North Korea might fire short- or mid-range missiles during the June 25 to July 10 timeframe cited in a no-sail ban for military drills sent to Japan's Coast Guard. North Korea had warned previously it would fire a long-range missile as a response to U.N. Security Council condemnation of an April rocket launch seen as a cover for its ballistic missile technology. An underground nuclear test last month drew more Security Council action: a resolution seeking to clamp down on North Korea's trading of banned arms and weapons-related material by requiring U.N. member states to request inspections of ships carrying suspected cargo. In a first test of the new resolution, a North Korean ship suspected of transporting illicit weapons was sailing off China's coast with a U.S. destroyer close behind. The Kang Nam, which left the North Korean port of Nampo a week ago, is believed bound for Myanmar, South Korean and U.S. officials said. A senior U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was unable to discuss intelligence on the vessel, said Wednesday that the ship had already cleared the Taiwan Strait. He said he didn't know how much range the Kang Nam has — that is, whether or when it may need to stop in some port to refuel — but that the Kang Nam has in the past stopped in Hong Kong's port. North Korea has said it would consider interception a declaration of war, and on Wednesday accused the U.S. of seeking to start another Korean War. "If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," a dispatch from the official Korean Central News Agency said. The warning came on the eve of the 59th anniversary of the outbreak of the Korean War. The brutal fighting ended after three years in a truce in 1953, not a peace treaty, leaving the peninsula divided and in a state of war. The U.S. has 28,500 troops in South Korea to protect against an outbreak of hostilities. On Wednesday, the top U.S. commander in South Korea, Gen. Walter Sharp, praised soldiers from U.S.-led U.N. forces who died fighting the "tyranny" of communist North Korea decades ago. "A North Korean victory in the Korean War would have brought the nightmare of tyranny to this great land, thrusting the citizens of the Republic of Korea into a darkness that their northern counterparts have yet to emerge from," he said a commemoration ceremony Wednesday, referring to South Korea by its official name, the Republic of Korea. Reports about possible missile launches from the North highlighted the state of tension on the Korean peninsula. A senior South Korean government official said the no-sail ban is believed connected to North Korean plans to fire short- or mid-range missiles. He spoke on condition of anonymity, citing department policy. Yonhap reported that the North may fire a Scud missile with a range of up to 310 miles (500 kilometers) or a short-range ground-to-ship missile with a range of 100 miles (160 kilometers) during the no-sail period. U.S. defense and counterproliferation officials in Washington said they also expected the North to launch short- to medium-range missiles. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence. South Korea will expedite the introduction of high-tech unmanned aerial surveillance systems and "bunker-buster" bombs in response to North Korea's provocations, the Chosun Ilbo newspaper said, citing lawmakers. Meanwhile, a flurry of diplomatic efforts were under way to try getting North Korea to return to disarmament talks. Russia's top nuclear envoy, Alexei Borodavkin, said after meeting with his South Korean counterpart that Moscow is open to other formats for discussion since Pyongyang has pulled out of formal six-nation negotiations. In Beijing, top U.S. and Chinese defense officials also discussed North Korea. U.S. Defense Undersecretary Michele Flournoy was heading next to Tokyo and Seoul for talks. South Korea has proposed high-level "consultations" to discuss North Korea with the U.S., Russia, China and Japan. ___ Associated Press writers Jae-soon Chang in Seoul, and Pauline Jelinek, Pamela Hess and Lolita Baldor in Washington contributed to this report. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090624/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_nuclear
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Legend
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As the world turns. Must be a a full moon decade, all the nutjobs are coming out of the woodwork. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Naaa .... we have a Democrat in the white house .. thats a green light to our "enemies" ...
there just 'testing" the waters to see exacty where Obama falls on the scale between doormat - war monger ...
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"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," a dispatch from the official Korean Central News Agency said.
 
There are no sacred cows.
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Legend
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I thought other countries were going to like us so much now.
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Legend
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Frank does a good Barkley.. 
yebat' Putin
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Dawg Talker
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I thought other countries were going to like us so much now.
Come on now Jules. North Korea hasn't liked anyone in decades. Not a fair criticism.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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I think that is a very fair criticism.
BO made himself to look like the great peace-maker...it is his actions and comments that make this criticism quite appropriate.
Diam hit it on the head.
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Dawg Talker
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And so far he's stretched out his hand instead of pissing people off every time he opens his mouth (other than some folks on this board that is.)
We don't have to be jerks to everyone around the world. We tried that, didn't work to well. He's trying a different tactic, we have yet to see how that works. World wide politics take more than 5 months to see a reaction.
Seeing how N.K has been for the last 40+ years, (4 of those up close in South Korea and the south Pacific) this is no different. He's being a petulant child who's not getting enough attention. Albeit with some very dangerous toys.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Dawg Talker
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Naaa .... we have a Democrat in the white house .. thats a green light to our "enemies" ...
there just 'testing" the waters to see exacty where Obama falls on the scale between doormat - war monger ...
I think you have it exactly backwards. We are now not quite so predictably provokable. It used to be so stupid-simple to rev us up and play us into these things. Now it takes a lot more sabre rattling and whack-job jabbering. I've find it a stubornly resiliant contradiction of the last decade that American "conservatives" are the ones that want to police the world and get into it when anyone lights a red white and blue hankie on fire.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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It's all just a big circle...
The US polices the world......who likes cops? NOBODY....
They tell countries what to do...and when they don't have the big guns(nukes) they have to do what the US says. But once they do they can use it as a leverage.
In a weird ass way i understand what N korea is doing all this for...they want the same power the US has. I don't agree with what they are doing...but i understand. Once u have nukes u are looked upon in a different light in the world.
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Legend
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Quote:
I think that is a very fair criticism.
BO made himself to look like the great peace-maker...it is his actions and comments that make this criticism quite appropriate.
Diam hit it on the head.
B.UH O is finding out the world doesn't much care if he's a "great orater" (which he's not). They don't care if he's black. They don't care about his change (well, many countries are laughing their butts off with all his spending and they are thinking "gees, he's killing the u.s. all by himself")
But, and this may surprise people - I think his reaction to N. Korea is proper. Same with Iran, although that's different from what we're discussing here.
Why do I think so? We're not bending over backwards to appease the midget ruler. That would only serve to embolden lil' kimmy. And we're not threatening anything, either - other than we will take care of our own.
From the reports I have read - articles, that is - we're doing the exact opposite of what lil kim thought we might. The message kim is getting is "the u.s. isn't afraid of me, and they aren't offering billions of barrels of oil, or food, to get me to stop. What's going on?"
So far, with n. korea, I think O is doing okay. I mean, we know, and they know, if they go nuclear on someone there country will cease to exist as it currently is. One thing dictators fear more than anything is losing their lifestyle - their personal lifestyle, and lil kim knows what would happen if he were to attack some country.
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In a weird ass way i understand what N korea is doing all this for...they want the same power the US has. I don't agree with what they are doing...but i understand. Once u have nukes u are looked upon in a different light in the world.
But they still can't feed their citizens. They still can't provide heat for their citizens. They can have 500 nukes - they still can't take care of their people.
Let them toss a few nukes around - then they won't have to worry about begging for aid, cause they won't have citizens - at least, not near as many.
Having a nuke, or nukes, doesn't give you power. But, I can see where Mr. 10 holes in one per round wouldn't understand that.
One thing he does understand, and always will understand, is if he uses a nuke - he loses. And that is all he cares about - himself.
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Legend
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well, many countries are laughing their butts off with all his spending and they are thinking "gees, he's killing the u.s. all by himself"
many aren't laughing - because they have trillions tied up in T Bills and all this inflationary spending is going to devalue the dollar.... ruining their investments in us.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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I mean, we know, and they know, if they go nuclear on someone there country will cease to exist as it currently is. One thing dictators fear more than anything is losing their lifestyle - their personal lifestyle, and lil kim knows what would happen if he were to attack some country.
Pretty much.
I said this ad nauseum when everyone was in a frenzy about how Hussein was going to release chemical weapons on the U.S. ( ) ... powerful people generally have one over-arching goal --- maintaining power.
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Dawg Talker
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I think it's about time we just ignore NK and their attention grabbing ways.,.. That might actually work better..
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Legend
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I think it's about time we just ignore NK and their attention grabbing ways.,.. That might actually work better..
And, as I said - or at least alluded to - so far I give the O admin. credit for doing basically just that. Not making a bigger deal of kim than needs to be made.
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Maybe they's just take "Arec Barrwin" and give up the missiles! 
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Legend
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Quote:
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well, many countries are laughing their butts off with all his spending and they are thinking "gees, he's killing the u.s. all by himself"
many aren't laughing - because they have trillions tied up in T Bills and all this inflationary spending is going to devalue the dollar.... ruining their investments in us.
Well, you are correct since you took me in a literal manner - and China is the largest u.s. debt holder in the world, as far as foreign countries are concerned.
Have you noticed what they have been doing lately? Why have u.s. politicians gone to china to try to ease their concerns about our money problems? Why have they cut their purchases of u.s. debt so much?
The answers are enough to scare a thinking person.
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And so far he's stretched out his hand instead of pissing people off every time he opens his mouth (other than some folks on this board that is.)
I am quite certain that his "apologies" to the Muslim world pissed a lot of people off. Our allies just loved that little Obama-ism. That and telling them that "we don't view ourselves as a Christian nation". Nice hand there BO.
He is stretching out his hand to countries that sponsor terrorism...as if he can enlighten them to the error of their ways.
And here was my point (although I was not clear in making it):
BO portrayed himself like some sort of messiah who would make it all make sense for "fill-in-the-blank"...in this case... the crazy bastards who want people to die because all are not like them. (I think such is what Jules was alluding to.)
Well...the crazy bastards are still out there doing the same crap they have always done.
How is the out-stretched hand working out so far?
As Arch said, his "handling" of Iran and N.K. have been good...a little wishy-washy...but good. However, what else could he have done? Bomb 'em?
Of course, Bush would have us at war with Iran and N.K. right now, so BO is doing a fine job.
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We don't have to be jerks to everyone around the world. We tried that, didn't work to well. He's trying a different tactic, we have yet to see how that works.
Jerks to everyone around the world? Exactly which countries have we been jerks to? No one will ever answer this question. Name them.
Those comments are such crap. We are jerks to our enemies...when they are being jerks. It's not a difficult concept.
Did you notice the Iranian protesters with signs written in english asking for the US to support them? Yeah...we are jerks to them.
Yeah...the world hates us.
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World wide politics take more than 5 months to see a reaction.
Seeing how N.K has been for the last 40+ years, (4 of those up close in South Korea and the south Pacific) this is no different. He's being a petulant child who's not getting enough attention. Albeit with some very dangerous toys.
I get your point here and am willing to see this out. However, many of the countries that "hate us" have been like petulant children for decades. Dictators hate us because we have Democracy...they will do whatever they can to keep what they have...even if it means being jerks to their own citizens.
Sometimes ignoring the petulant child works...and sometimes ignoring that petulant child ends with dead Americans.
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Good points, all.
But if those ying-yangs fire off a nuclear weapon, The World is in deep doo-doo.
Doesn't matter if it's Bush or Obama,...it's WHAT happens, and how (now Obama's ball) do we dribble upcourt ??
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090625/wl_nm/us_iran_electionAhmadinejad compares Obama to Bush Buzz Up Send Email IM Share Delicious Digg Facebook Fark Newsvine Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print Play Video Australia 7 News – Reports of 'massacre' in latest Iran protest Slideshow:Iran Election Play Video Video:Witnesses: Clashes around Iran's parliament AP Play Video Video:West condemns Iran crackdown but Khamenei 'will not back down' AFP AFP – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad smiles during a meeting in Tehran. A top Iranian dissident cleric … By Parisa Hafezi and Fredrik Dahl Parisa Hafezi And Fredrik Dahl – 2 hrs 1 min ago TEHRAN (Reuters) – President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad accused Barack Obama on Thursday of behaving like his predecessor toward Iran and said there was not much point in talking to Washington unless the U.S. president apologized. EDITORS' NOTE: Reuters and other foreign media are subject to Iranian restrictions on their ability to report, film or take pictures in Tehran. Obama said on Tuesday he was "appalled and outraged" by a post-election crackdown and Washington withdrew invitations to Iranian diplomats to attend U.S. Independence Day celebrations on July 4 -- stalling efforts to improve ties with Tehran. "Mr Obama made a mistake to say those things ... our question is why he fell into this trap and said things that previously (former U.S. President George W.) Bush used to say," the semi-official Fars News Agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying. "Do you want to speak with this tone? If that is your stance then what is left to talk about ... I hope you avoid interfering in Iran's affairs and express your regret in a way that the Iranian nation is informed of it," he said. About 20 people have died in demonstrations following the disputed June 12 election. Police and militia have flooded Tehran's streets since Saturday, quelling the most widespread anti-government protests since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Analysts say the battle has now moved off the street into a protracted behind-the-scenes struggle within Iran's clerical establishment, facing an unprecedented public rift. Opposition leader Mirhossein Mousavi, who says he won the poll, has the backing of such powerful figures as former presidents Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and Mohammad Khatami, and senior cleric Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who normally stays above the political fray, has sided strongly with Ahmadinejad. "My personal judgment is that this is a country deeply split and emotionalized," a Western diplomat in the region said. Khamenei has upheld the result and Iran's top legislative body, the Guardian Council, has refused to annul the elections. State Press TV quoted a spokesman for the council as saying they were "among the healthiest elections ever held in the country". MOUSAVI SAYS TO KEEP FIGHTING Mousavi said on Thursday he was determined to keep challenging the election results despite pressure to stop. "A major rigging has happened," his website reported him as saying. "I am prepared to prove that those behind the rigging are responsible for the bloodshed." He called on his supporters to continue "legal" protests and said restrictions on the opposition could lead to more violence. Mousavi supporters said they would release thousands of balloons on Friday imprinted with the message "Neda you will always remain in our hearts" -- a reference to the young woman killed last week who has become an icon of the protests. Obama had previously been muted in his criticism. But on Tuesday he said that, "the United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, the beatings, and imprisonments of the last few days." Before the election, Obama had tried to improve ties with Iran -- branded by Bush as part of an "axis of evil". Washington had been hoping to convince Tehran to drop what it suspects are plans to develop nuclear bombs, while also seeking its help in stabilising Afghanistan. It had invited Iranian diplomats to attend Independence Day celebrations for the first time since Washington cut diplomatic ties with Tehran in 1980. The move to withdraw the invites was largely symbolic as no Iranians had even responded. Mohammad Marandi, who is the head of North American Studies at Tehran University, said mistrust of the United States and Britain was rife. "In the short term relations will definitely get worse, but in the long term the U.S. really has to re-think its policy and to recognize that regime change is not possible in Iran." British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said the problems came from within Iran rather than from the outside. "I think the truth is that there is a crisis of credibility between the Iranian government and their own people. It's not a crisis between Iran and America or Iran and Britain, however much the Iranian government wants to suggest that," he said. (Additional reporting by Zahra Hosseinian and Hossein Jaseb; Writing by Myra MacDonald; Editing by Jon Hemming) ______________________________________________________________ Thought this would fit in here since the talk added Muslims. Looks like we're doing poorly in peace talks everywhere
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Dawg Talker
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I am quite certain that his "apologies" to the Muslim world pissed a lot of people off. Our allies just loved that little Obama-ism. That and telling them that "we don't view ourselves as a Christian nation". Nice hand there BO.
I don't view us a Christian nation anymore either. Sure, we have a lot of Christians (myself included). But we guarantee our citizens the unique ability to worship as they see fit. Even if that means not worshiping at all. We have a very large Jewish population, a ever increasing Muslim population, along with pretty much every other religion on the planet here. Yes, the majority is Christian, but that is not how we should define ourselves IMHO.
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He is stretching out his hand to countries that sponsor terrorism...as if he can enlighten them to the error of their ways.
Cause just going to war with folks worked out right? What are we going to do? Go Nation-building in every country in the world that we don't agree with? No thanks. Personally, I'd rather get the hell out of it, and focus all those $ going overseas on our domestic problems. I'd rather throw the billions we give to other countries at our own issues, it will never happen, but that would be my preferred option.
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And here was my point (although I was not clear in making it):
BO portrayed himself like some sort of messiah who would make it all make sense for "fill-in-the-blank"...in this case... the crazy bastards who want people to die because all are not like them. (I think such is what Jules was alluding to.)
Well...the crazy bastards are still out there doing the same crap they have always done.
I understand what you're saying. But this type of change isn't going to happen in 5 months. Mr. Bush put us significantly behind the 8 ball in world politics with his handling (or bumbling) of the Iraq / Afgan wars. Yes the Crazy bastards are still out there. And they always will be. But instead of just running in and trying to take over, he's trying a more diplomatic route. And when that doesn't work (it probably won't), he'll be able to turn to the world community and say "look, we tried everything. You wanted us to talk, I tried, they still are crazy bastards and need to be removed". And at least then we will have a bit more bargaining power and won't necessarily be viewed as being a "bomb first" country.
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How is the out-stretched hand working out so far?
Still too early. Need more data and more time to see how it plays out. Ask me this in 3 more years.
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As Arch said, his "handling" of Iran and N.K. have been good...a little wishy-washy...but good. However, what else could he have done? Bomb 'em?
Of course, Bush would have us at war with Iran and N.K. right now, so BO is doing a fine job.
We agree.
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We don't have to be jerks to everyone around the world. We tried that, didn't work to well. He's trying a different tactic, we have yet to see how that works.
Jerks to everyone around the world? Exactly which countries have we been jerks to? No one will ever answer this question. Name them.
Those comments are such crap. We are jerks to our enemies...when they are being jerks. It's not a difficult concept.
Did you notice the Iranian protesters with signs written in english asking for the US to support them? Yeah...we are jerks to them.
Yeah...the world hates us.
I didn't say the world hates us. I said we don't have to be jerks. Perhaps I should have used a different word. How does bully sound?
Look, I don't think our system is perfect, but I've seen enough in my travels around the world to know we have it pretty damn good. A whole lot better than most other places that I've been. I don't think we need to be involved in Nation building. I would rather let us stand on our principals and lead by example and let other countries come to their own conclusion. I don't see why we have to "expand democracy" around the world. Other countries want to have a dicatator, fine. Emperor? Dandy. I don't really care. The U.N (which admittedly has lost it's luster in the last 2 decades or more) should be the international standard as far as babysitting these countries. Not us.
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World wide politics take more than 5 months to see a reaction.
Seeing how N.K has been for the last 40+ years, (4 of those up close in South Korea and the south Pacific) this is no different. He's being a petulant child who's not getting enough attention. Albeit with some very dangerous toys.
I get your point here and am willing to see this out. However, many of the countries that "hate us" have been like petulant children for decades. Dictators hate us because we have Democracy...they will do whatever they can to keep what they have...even if it means being jerks to their own citizens.
Sometimes ignoring the petulant child works...and sometimes ignoring that petulant child ends with dead Americans.
Again, we agree.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Maybe they's just take "Arec Barrwin" and give up the missiles!
Yeshh, he ish sho lonely.
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Quote:
I think it's about time we just ignore NK and their attention grabbing ways.,.. That might actually work better..
Right, and when they sell a Nuke to Al Quida thats used to blow up NY we'll just ignore that too. I don't think BO has the stones to stand up to that sawed off runt. This ship we are following will tell us a lot about BO and how he is going to protect us or just run around the world apoligizing and kissing butt.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I think it's about time we just ignore NK and their attention grabbing ways.,.. That might actually work better..
Right, and when they sell a Nuke to Al Quida thats used to blow up NY we'll just ignore that too. I don't think BO has the stones to stand up to that sawed off runt. This ship we are following will tell us a lot about BO and how he is going to protect us or just run around the world apoligizing and kissing butt.
Somebody blows up NYC with a nuke, we should eliminate whatever country/group did it, the country it came from, and perhaps another country or 2 that may have played a part in it.
Having a nuke and using it are 2 totally seperate things.
I don't like uh O - mainly for his policies here at home - he's driving a stake in the heart of this country, while at the same time slicing our wrists, all while tightening the noose around our necks.
But, he's not kowtowing to lil kim. He's not begging and pleading - he's not offering more aid - oil, food. He's basically saying "okay, you have a nuke or 2, maybe 10. Big deal. We have thousands, and we can push a button and drop one on your head if we need to".
I think uh O is doing just fine in regards to n. korea. (Iran as well, actually - I mean, we wouldn't allow other countries to meddle in our elections - so even if the election in Iran was rigged - it is NOT our job to take care of it)
Back to korea - lil kim has shown over the years he's a petty thug that wants attention. I myself ignore petty thugs that do things for attention - especially when I know I can whip their ass in a heartbeat. Even more so when I know that a petty thug can't make it without me giving him food or money.
uh O has done some terrible things to this country - things we'll probably never recover from. Ignoring a jerk like lil kim is one thing I think he's doing right.
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uh O has done some terrible things to this country - things we'll probably never recover from.
I happen to think that thus far he's done a terribly poor job -- he's Reagan on steroids -- but I do really enjoy watching those who defended eight years of complete disaster in the White House suddenly acting like the sky is falling.
In regards to N. Korea and Iran...I'm on board with Obama there. He never should've ramped up in Afghanistan, and it irks me that people talk about him 'getting us out' of Iraq...he's following Bush's policy there rather closely...
Currently, I'm watching him discuss the massive subsidy he's handing out to GE (among others) under the guise of 'clean energy'.
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uh O has done some terrible things to this country - things we'll probably never recover from.
I happen to think that thus far he's done a terribly poor job -- he's Reagan on steroids -- but I do really enjoy watching those who defended eight years of complete disaster in the White House suddenly acting like the sky is falling.
You just don't get it, do you? It's not "that" the sky is falling for this country. It's "Obama is doing everything he can to make the sky fall faster".
Check out the spending. uh O has spent more in 5-6 months than Bush did in 8 years!!! (check that - the projected uh O deficit for the first year is $1,800,000,000.00 - that's projected so we know it will be much higher.. when Bush left office, it was 1.2 trillion - with 2 wars doing most of the financial damage. Just think...with 3 1/2 years to go - where uh O is going to put us)
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You just don't get it, do you? It's not "that" the sky is falling for this country. It's "Obama is doing everything he can to make the sky fall faster".
He's basically doing the same things that we've been doing for decades...he's just doing it at a faster pace because we're sinking at a faster pace.
And he's absolutely not making the sky fall faster -- he's doing the exact opposite...delaying the fall. If he really wanted to speed up the process he would've let the banks fail (which he should've done). He's prolonging the inevitable...at a hefty price tag.
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Well, you see it one way, I see it another - he's delaying the drop, but in the process, he's making the drop much harder.
If I was in a plane that was going to crash land - would I want the plane to crash land sooner, in, say, a river (ala captain Sullenberger), or later - into the side of a cliff?
Sooner or later - it's going to happen. Would I rather have a chance, or would I rather smack the mountain with certain death the outcome?
Look at it in those terms and I think you'll agree.
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I don't disagree with you...but we're hitting the cliff however you want to look at it...
The only way we get the 'soft' landing you speak of is for us to subsidize private industry to health, which is what Reagan did (and Obama is trying to emulate...he's just doing it overtly whereas for the most part Reagan/Bush did it through the military). Even if it works, it's still a delay of the mountain crash.
The problem we speak of is a simple one -- fake wealth that doesn't exist. The problem is, no American -- president, senator or average Joe -- wants to abandon that system. Every time you hear someone talk it's about 'getting back to where we were'...we're essentially repeatedly putting our hand over a hot stove in hopes that maybe this time we won't get burned.
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Off topic, but Arch I like the "uh O" tagline.
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get into it when anyone lights a red white and blue hankie on fire.
judging by statements like that U and Phil must get along splendidly ....
in my world .. flying airplanes into our buildings is a little more than lighting a hanlie on fire .. but thats just me ..
and this situation .. I'm not ready to go to war YET .. but dude .. if U don't see whats coming .. NO MATTER WHAT ... well unless Obama acts like the doormat he may be ... its ONLY A MATTER OF TIME before theres a war in Korea ...
there testing us ... we need to answer the test .. we have got to find out what is on that ship .. if we can do it without boarding it .. GREAT ... but we have to know what is on that ship .. cause if we don't ... were setting a bad precedent ..
do u know that his last missile went 2400 miles ... thats 1/2 of how far Hawaii is .. so if he doubles that and amny believe his next launch a mere 2 months after his last one .. will at least half the distant left ... so at this rate before football starts he will have the capability to send a nuke to Hawaii ..
Bush clearly dropped the ball here .. one of many spots .. and Obama and Phil can whine al they like about him... but it doesnlt change the fact ..
HERE WE ARE ... and its OBAMA'S ISSUE TO SOLVE NOW .. that is all that really matters ..
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You used my name twice in that post...neither time really approximating anything close to my stance on the issue. It's not much different than saying something like 'or you could be like Diam, who wants to kill everyone with dark skin who doesn't like America'... just really juvenile discussion tactics. That aside... And a war is bound to happen, you are correct. At the moment, the best thing to do is be cool...Il claims if we stop the ship it's a declaration of war...well, to that I say go ahead, cowboy. Your move. He's a little loopy, so I wouldn't bet on him...but I figure he wouldn't do much. 
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More than in the past, there is a world consensus that North Korea is out of line and needs to be diplomatically, if not militarily, constrained.
I think what everybody is missing here, is that due to international consensus, Obama doesn't need to be a war mongerer. This isn't the US vs. NK. This isn't even US+SK vs. NK anymore. China and Russia have every bit as much, if not more, reason to be worried than we do.
I've been a huge fan of Obama's foreign policy on pretty much every issue that's come up. We basically are in a wait and see posture, and we'll find out what NK does next. We're on high alert, and are very prepared for any attack that would come, simultaneously, we're looking for diplomatic alternatives if this is simply more sabre rattling (as has consistently been the case for over 40 years)
There's no reason to push this towards war, because it's very possible than any battle will be avoided because North Korea knows it will be crushed. The right move is to continue isolating North Korea and building international consensus against it. If North Korea does something stupid, and decided to attack, they will get almost no advantage from a first strike, as compared to an initial US invasion, our technical superiority is just too great, and we will be able to respond too quickly.
Now, Obama's economic policy is a different story, but I'm not sure how we are doing anything wrong in this situation.
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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ratchet the rhetoric up another notch.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_koreas_nuclear NKorea vows nuke attack if provoked by US SEOUL, South Korea - Punching their fists into the air and shouting "Let's crush them!" some 100,000 North Koreans packed Pyongyang's main square Thursday for an anti-U.S. rally as the communist regime promised a "fire shower of nuclear retaliation" for any American-led attack. Several demonstrators held up a placard depicting a pair of hands smashing a missile with "U.S." written on it, according to footage taken by APTN in Pyongyang on the anniversary of the day North Korean troops charged southward, sparking the three-year Korean War in 1950. North Korean troops will respond to any sanctions or U.S. provocations with "an annihilating blow," one senior official vowed - a pointed threat as an American destroyer shadowed a North Korean freighter sailing off China's coast, possibly with banned goods on board. A new U.N. Security Council resolution passed recently to punish North Korea for conducting an underground nuclear test in May requires U.N. member states to request inspections of ships suspected of carrying arms or nuclear weapons-related material. In response to the sanctions, the North pulled out of nuclear talks and has ramped up already strident anti-American rhetoric. And the isolated regime may now be moving to openly flout the resolution by dispatching a ship suspected of carrying arms to Myanmar. While it was not clear what was on board the North Korean-flagged Kang Nam 1, officials have mentioned artillery and other conventional weaponry. One intelligence expert suspected missiles. The U.S. and its allies have made no decision on whether to request inspection of the ship, Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said Wednesday in Washington, but North Korea has said it would consider any interception an act of war. If permission for inspection is refused, the ship must dock at a port of its choosing so local authorities can check its cargo. Vessels suspected of carrying banned goods must not be offered bunkering services at port, such as fuel, the resolution says. A senior U.S. defense official said the ship had cleared the Taiwan Strait. He said he didn't know whether or when the Kang Nam may need to stop in some port to refuel, but that the Kang Nam has in the past stopped in Hong Kong's port. Another U.S. defense official said he tended to doubt reports that the Kang Nam was carrying nuclear-related equipment, saying information seems to indicate the cargo is banned conventional munitions. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity in order to talk about intelligence. North Korea is suspected to have transported banned goods to Myanmar before on the Kang Nam, said Bertil Lintner, a Bangkok-based North Korea expert who has written a book about leader Kim Jong Il. Pyongyang also has been helping the junta in Yangon build up its weapons arsenal, a South Korean intelligence expert said. He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. The two countries have not always been on good terms. Ties were severed in 1983 after a fatal bombing during the South Korean president's visit to Myanmar blamed on North Korean commandoes. They held secret talks in Bangkok in the 1990s to discuss the lone survivor among the three North Korean commandos involved in the bombing, and since have forged close relations. The two regimes, among Asia's most repressive, restored diplomatic ties in 2007. Not long after that, in April 2007, the Kang Nam docked at Thilawa port saying it needed shelter from bad weather. But one expert said reports show the weather was clear then, and two local journalists working for a foreign news agency who went to write about the unusual docking were arrested. "The Kang Nam unloaded a lot of heavy equipment in 2007," Lintner said. "Obviously, the ship was carrying something very sensitive at that time as well." North Korea has also helped Myanmar dig tunnels in recent years, said Lintner, adding that the cash-strapped North may have received rice, rubber and minerals in return for its military and other assistance. "North Korea appears to have exported conventional weapons to Myanmar in exchange for food," another expert said. Pyongyang is believed to have transported digging equipment to Myanmar, which is seeking to make its new capital a fortress with vast underground facilities, he said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence. North Korea has been locked in a tense standoff with Washington and other regional powers over its nuclear program. In April, the regime launched a rocket widely seen as a cover for a test of long-range missile technology - a move that drew U.N. Security Council condemnation. The North responded by abandoning six-nation disarmament talks and threatening to carry out nuclear tests and fire intercontinental ballistic missiles. The North is believed to be developing a long-range missile designed to strike the U.S. but experts say it has not figured out how to mount a bomb onto the missile. On Thursday, Pyongyang vowed to enlarge its atomic arsenal and warned of a "fire shower of nuclear retaliation" if provoked by the U.S. North Korea's "armed forces will deal an annihilating blow that is unpredictable and unavoidable, to any 'sanctions' or provocations by the US," Pak Pyong Jong, first vice chairman of the Pyongyang City People's Committee, told the crowd gathered for the Korean War anniversary rally. In Seoul, some 5,000 people - mostly American and South Korean veterans and war widows - also commemorated the anniversary at a ceremony. South Korean President Lee Myung-bak said the nation is prepared to counter any type of threat or provocation. "The South Korean government is firmly determined to defend the lives and wealth of its people and will do its utmost to find the remains of troops killed in the Korean War," he said at the ceremony. The two Koreas technically remain in a state of war because the conflict ended in a truce, not a peace treaty. Associated Press writers Hyung-jin Kim and Jae-soon Chang in Seoul, and Pauline Jelinek in Washington, contributed to this report.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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If Li'l Kim was smart.. the Kang Nam 1 would be loaded up with Rice and chop sticks and whatever else they have in North Korea to export... then you leak the intel that it's weapons and you dare anybody to come on board... then when they do, you make a big stink about how oppressed you are.... that's what I would do.
I mean if he really wants to rally the support of his own people and probably get some support from other sympathetic nations, that would be the best way to do it.
yebat' Putin
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I mean if he really wants to rally the support of his own people and probably get some support from other sympathetic nations, that would be the best way to do it.
Which sympathetic nations would those be? Certainly not China or Russia. Maybe Iran, but that's not going to get you that far, especially now. Maybe Venezuela?
~Lyuokdea
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 06/25/09 05:35 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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Naaa .... we have a Democrat in the white house .. thats a green light to our "enemies" ...
there just 'testing" the waters to see exacty where Obama falls on the scale between doormat - war monger ...
I agree.
I would tell N. Korea if the ship sails more than 200 miles from it's current position other than back to port, it will be found on the bottom.
I am tired of punks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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