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Nowhere did I say anything about wishing him dead. I am just saying that now that he is dead I am not going to just ignore the fact that he was a child molestor. Or at least in my view he was. The fact that the guy has passed does not change that.
KING
Imagine if you were suddenly arrested and accused of being a child molester. Imagine if little children, coached by therapists, got on the witness stand and said that you had done horrible things to them. Imagine if nobody believed you when you cried out that you were innocent. Imagine if you were separated from your family and sent to prison for life. Believe it or not this kind of stuff really does happen. 2 people were convicted WITHOUT evidence: Robert Halsey and Nancy Smith are examples. Also if my child was molested I would not accept money from the pedophile I would try to kill the SOB. I'm not saying MJ is completely innocent but their is no way to prove he was guilty.
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I did ALOT of research into the crimes Michael Jackson was accused of. A whole lot of information is out there for you to make up your own minds.
For those interested look up the drug sodium amytal. Then explain why Jordan's father gave him this drug and then only after administering this drug were the allegations made?
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While I don't necessarily endorse King's view, I agree that he should most certainly be allowed to speak it here if he chooses to.
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I haven't cared for his music since he was a very young man... I found him to be eccentric and odd... I don't know whether he molested any kids or not... I know he did dangle a small child very dangerously over a balcony just to prove some kind of point... Regardless, I hope he rests in peace.
yebat' Putin
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RIP Michael Jackson!
I hope you finally have the peace that you seemed to seek here on earth. Regardless of what else has written in this thread.
And the next head coach is ......
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In the great words of 2pac...
Another criminal.... 
Good Lord people, come on......
Every time someone mentions a rapper on this board, the comments come....
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I really don't think there was a bigger Michael Jackson fan here than me.
I would beg to differ 
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That's because half this board is filled with backwards folk who think that great music started and ended with the "hair bands".
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While I don't necessarily endorse King's view, I agree that he should most certainly be allowed to speak it here if he chooses to.
I don't agree with them, either...in fact, when it comes to death I usually bite my tongue, which is a trait that I lack most of the time.
But there's no need to expect or endorse censorship of opinion.
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This amazingly talented entertainer/icon has lost his life....can we please let this thread honor his legacy and not YOUR VIEW of him. Thanks in advance.
This thread, this forum, and this board exists for the expression of ALL views, whether you like them or not.
As you and others have asked for those with a negative opinion to cease, I will politely ask that those folks please stop discouraging dissenting views.
lol
I'm not asking for any kind of censorship on this board. One thread...respect for someone who died. That's it. Whatever...have fun with it.
Later
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Something I've always wondered.....
Does anyone know what goes through people's minds when they see a rock star singing / performing and they go out of body nuts shaking and crying and contorting all which way? Are they having an orgasm? Are they having an emotional breakdown? What is happening?
I've seen some clips of Michael Jackson and Elvis today and it brought it back to mind.
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For the record, I hold no ill will towards Michael Jackson...I mourn the man and feel badly for him...
I'm just saying that we shouldn't tell others how to think. It's a thread, not a funeral procession.
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I don't think anyone is telling other people "how to think" here. What bothers me is how some are convinced MJ did these horrible things he was accused of and won't stop talking about it. Nobody knows a damned thing. Even those that believe him innocent don't know for sure. But only one side is blabbering on and on about it.
Rest In Peace, Michael.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I agree with you completely...but as I told another poster in a PM, there's almost always going to be detractors, especially in this case.
Just give Michael the praise you feel he deserves, share in the memories and influence with other posters, and let them eat their hate cake.
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In the great words of 2pac...
Another criminal....
Good Lord people, come on......
Every time someone mentions a rapper on this board, the comments come....
Excuse me for referring to someone who has been convicted of assault and sexual abuse as a criminal. What word would you prefer that I use????????
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I really don't think there was a bigger Michael Jackson fan here than me.
I would beg to differ
DITTO!!
Anyone remember Captain EO??
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I really don't think there was a bigger Michael Jackson fan here than me.
I would beg to differ
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I really don't think there was a bigger Michael Jackson fan here than me.
I would beg to differ
DITTO!!
Anyone remember Captain EO??
Yes!!! Was priviledged enough to see it.
Saw the Victory tour with he and his brothers at Municipal stadium...unfortunately I was right behind one those damn poles. Still was one of my most cherished experiences.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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In the great words of 2pac...
Another criminal....
Good Lord people, come on......
Every time someone mentions a rapper on this board, the comments come....
Excuse me for referring to someone who has been convicted of assault and sexual abuse as a criminal. What word would you prefer that I use????????
What word?
How about none?
He quoted the guy, so you had to just couldn't resist throwing that comment out there, even though it had nothing to do with the topic.
You don't even know the story, and this ain't the thread for it.
If he would have quoted Ice Cube, I'm sure another comment would have been thrown out. Let's just keep the discussion on Michael Jackson.
Last edited by Dawgpound017; 06/26/09 10:36 PM.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I'm not saying MJ is completely innocent but their is no way to prove he was guilty.
The clincher for me revolves around the witness describing a certain detail on a certain part of MJ's body that no child should ever be able to describe. So while I cannot say I 100% know Jackson was a pedophile, I can say I sure believe he was.
In many ways, it's like the steroid era in baseball. There's not much pure proof, but there's a mountain of evidence, and in most cases, that evidence has eventually led to someone being proven of taking PED's.
100% bullet-proof that he was a pedophile? No. A mountain of evidence that says he was? Yes.
And I am actually sorry that this discussion taints some people's view of Jackson in their minds. That isn't my intent. However, he was such a freakin' weirdo that to ask for those topics to not be discussed is unrealistic and unreasonable. Like it or not, this is Jackson's legacy. The good........and the bad.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I really don't think there was a bigger Michael Jackson fan here than me.
I would beg to differ
Michael Jackson, regardless of the allegations (which he was never convicted of), is one of the top 3 most influential musicians/bands of all time. The only two you can even begin to argue ahead of MJ are The Beatles and Elvis.
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If MJ really did molest your child, would you settle for a measley couple million dollars and shut up?
If your MJ, would you settle for a measley couple million dollars?
If I were worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and I KNEW I was innocent, I wouldn't settle at all. I'd see the thing all the way through, then counter-sue to prove myself.
That example goes both ways man.
Too many people fall back on the "he wasn't proven guilty in a court of law" arguement.
It's wrong to convict a person without absolute proof. However, to believe something was wrong doesn't require absolute proof. Civil law proves that.
As talented as he was, if he were just a regular Joe on the street, he'd have probably ended up in a nut-house.
As the old saying goes, if you're rich your just eccentric, but if your poor, you're freakin' crazy. Jackson was crazy, and while that isn't a crime, it isn't a stretch at all to believe he was attracted to kids.
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With Los Angeles Police Department detectives weighing his claims, Chandler gave them a roadmap to Jackson's below-the-waist geography, which, he said, includes distinctive "splotches" on his buttocks and one on his penis, "which is a light color similar to the color of his face." The boy's information was so precise, he even pinpointed where the splotch fell while Jackson's penis was erect, the length of the performer's pubic hair, and that he was circumcised.
It wasn't long after law enforcement's photo session that Jackson agreed to settle Chandler's civil claim for north of $20 million.
This question is for anyone:
Give me one example...........just one..............to explain how this kid would know about the splotches on Jackson, and why that'd be OK. If I can get a legitimate reason that I didn't consider, I may change my mind about Jackson. Everything I've ever read can be disputed......except for this one, vital piece of evidence.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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With Los Angeles Police Department detectives weighing his claims, Chandler gave them a roadmap to Jackson's below-the-waist geography, which, he said, includes distinctive "splotches" on his buttocks and one on his penis, "which is a light color similar to the color of his face." The boy's information was so precise, he even pinpointed where the splotch fell while Jackson's penis was erect, the length of the performer's pubic hair, and that he was circumcised.
Did this statement prove to be true? I'm not saying the boy might have been a liar or not but whose to say he wasn't coached by one of Michael Jacksons personal doctors that *might* have know about this? You can create a whole bunch of controversy and rumours. Sorry Toad I just need more cold-hard evidence then just this boys testimony. As I stated before, 2 innocent people were convicted of Child molestation just because of testimonies.
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Give me one example...........just one..............to explain how this kid would know about the splotches on Jackson, and why that'd be OK.
Well the kid could have accidently walked into the bathroom while Michael Jackson was doing his business.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Was he ever found GUILTY in the court of law for child molestation?
Whatever...OJ wasn't either. Why is it that the justice system makes mistakes in convictions but never on acquittals? 20 Million will buy a lot of innocence.
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am not sure whether or not he was---and if he wasn't---then you can't, with 100% certainty, call him a pedophile.
Pull the head out of the sand.
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Some things that I am certain of.........
He was the KING of pop.
Ever hear of the Beatles? The catalog of music he bought?
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He didn't really have a childhood.
Neither did Dahmer
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He loved kids, and acted as though he himself was still a child.
He put himself in many situations with children that left him with serious legal problems. Whether he molested anyone--with 100% certainty---no one really knows but Michael Jackson---and possibly the victim.
See" head in sand".
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I think it is quite foul the way people are branding him a child molester---when in fact, to my knowledge, there is no real truth beyond the accusations of a confused young boy or young boys.
You apologist are too much. If his last name was Bob Smith who was a janitor from Cleveland, you would pee on his grave.
I'm not saying he was not a musical talent. $20 million dollar payoff and admitted boys in his bed speak for itself. If he is talentless, you wouldn't think twice about molestation.
"My signature line goes here."
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Whatever...OJ wasn't either. Why is it that the justice system makes mistakes in convictions but never on acquittals? 20 Million will buy a lot of innocence.
For every guilty man that goes free their might be an innocent person that goes to jail.
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Pull the head out of the sand..
Why? It's true their is no way you can prove with 100% certainty that he was a pedophile. It's just pure speculation and opinon.
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Ever hear of the Beatles? The catalog of music he bought?
I will agree with you on this 
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See" head in sand".
See "no way you can prove with 100%"
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You apologist are too much. If his last name was Bob Smith who was a janitor from Cleveland, you would pee on his grave.
I'm not saying he was not a musical talent. $20 million dollar payoff and admitted boys in his bed speak for itself. If he is talentless, you wouldn't think twice about molestation.
I never really listened to his music to be honest with you. Talent has nothing to do with it IMO. If it did then why would so many people think OJ was guilty?
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if he were just a regular Joe on the street, he'd have probably ended up in a nut-house.
If he were just a regular Joe on the street, I doubt any of this would've ever happened.
If he was Michael Jackson, car mechanic, born in Gary, Indiana in 1958...I can't say if he would've wanted to touch kids or want to surgically thin his nose. But my unsubstantiated opinion is no.
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In the great words of 2pac...
Another criminal....
Good Lord people, come on......
Every time someone mentions a rapper on this board, the comments come....
Excuse me for referring to someone who has been convicted of assault and sexual abuse as a criminal. What word would you prefer that I use????????
What word?
How about none?
He quoted the guy, so you had to just couldn't resist throwing that comment out there, even though it had nothing to do with the topic.
You don't even know the story, and this ain't the thread for it.
If he would have quoted Ice Cube, I'm sure another comment would have been thrown out. Let's just keep the discussion on Michael Jackson.
I threw out my opinion, which is my privilege to do so.
Just as it is your privilege to berate me for doing so.
Neat how it works, huh???
I don't even know the story..... 
Tupac was a criminal, and if I want to refer to him as such when someone brings up his name, I WILL DO SO. Michael Jackson was a freak, and if I want to refer to him as such, I WILL DO SO.
Neat how it works huh???
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Two days later... and I'm still watching nothing but MJ Videos....
RIP!!
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One thing we can all agree on is no one knows for sure if MJ did anything unlawful. To judge him either way without knowing is ignorant.
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I threw out my opinion, which is my privilege to do so.
Just as it is your privilege to berate me for doing so.
Neat how it works, huh???
I don't even know the story.....
Tupac was a criminal, and if I want to refer to him as such when someone brings up his name, I WILL DO SO. Michael Jackson was a freak, and if I want to refer to him as such, I WILL DO SO.
Neat how it works huh???
Of course it's your right to say what you want. I already knew your were going to use that as soon as I was posting my reply. People are so predictable around here.
It basically had nothing to do with the topic, and wasn't needed. I don't know how many times I would throw a comment out unrelated and have it chopped off by a ref....
My point is that if someone quoted a guy like Scott Stapp from Creed or some other rocker from the 80's, for example, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have said a word.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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j/c my whole issue with this things is since mj was musically talented he gets off scott free and people make excuses about his childhood as the reason he is wacko.  if some 50 year old guy had all this evidence against him with no music talent and no one had heard of... people would have the torches and pitchforks out. Since he had a talent people liked... he becomes this icon who is an amazing man, who is so caring, and did so much for the world. He did more for people than this whole board combined.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Since he had a talent people liked... he becomes this icon who is an amazing man, who is so caring, and did so much for the world. He did more for people than this whole board combined.
I can't speak for others, but his talent isn't what made him an amazing man. It's what made him a great performer, but not a great man.
It was his ability to rally others to his causes, like in the 80's where he co-wrote We are the world with Lionel Ritchie to bring attention to the starvation in Africa.
His Heal the World Foundation that has (and btw still is) helping millions around the world.
His performances after 9/11 where ALL the money went to help the victims and families of victims.
In 1984 when he was filming a video that caught his hair on fire and burned him horribly. PepsiCo settled with him out of court, and he gave his entire $1.5 million to the Michael Jackson Burn center.
His Man in the Mirror album where the proceeds when to charity.
His working with leaders around the world from Presidents to Popes, Mother Theresa to Ghandi, all to try to make the world a better place.
That is what makes him a great man.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Of course it's your right to say what you want. I already knew your were going to use that as soon as I was posting my reply. People are so predictable around here.
Of course it was predictable....there have been many instances within this thread where people have tried to tell others how and how not to post, and that aint the way it works.
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It basically had nothing to do with the topic, and wasn't needed.
It was a comment based upon another post. It's not like I suddenly inserted a random name within the thread....."betty crocker is a criminal"
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I don't know how many times I would throw a comment out unrelated and have it chopped off by a ref....
I think you do know how many times.
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My point is that if someone quoted a guy like Scott Stapp from Creed or some other rocker from the 80's, for example, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have said a word.
Nope, because I don't know that Scott Stapp is a criminal. Is he???
I know Tupac Shakur is. Was.
I believe Michael Jackson was.
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Since he had a talent people liked... he becomes this icon who is an amazing man, who is so caring, and did so much for the world. He did more for people than this whole board combined.
Rather bold of you.
Just because his generousity/stunts/tax break tricks (take your pick) were public doesn't neccesarily mean they did more or meant more to say...the member here who may be a nurse, or the member who continually goes out of their way to help a neighbor.
I'm not saying he didn't do anything of any value....but don't devalue the common mans deeds!
Last edited by 1oldMutt; 06/27/09 12:42 PM.
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Nope, because I don't know that Scott Stapp is a criminal. Is he???
It was an example.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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In the great words of 2pac...
Another criminal....
Good Lord people, come on......
Every time someone mentions a rapper on this board, the comments come....
call me racist if you want to...but it's cuz majority of this board is old white ppl who dont' know any better.
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Since he had a talent people liked... he becomes this icon who is an amazing man, who is so caring, and did so much for the world. He did more for people than this whole board combined.
Rather bold of you.
Just because his generousity/stunts/tax break tricks (take your pick) were public doesn't neccesarily mean they did more or meant more to say...the member here who may be a nurse, or the member who continually goes out of their way to help a neighbor.
I'm not saying he didn't do anything of any value....but don't devalue the common mans deeds!
I know? that is what I was trying to say...
i can't believe people are saying this stuff.
you should probably read my post again...
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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