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http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/06/indians_mark_derosa_has_been_t.htmlCLEVELAND -- The Indians have traded Mark DeRosa to the Cardinals for right-hander Chris Perez and a player to be named. DeRosa was batting .270 with 13 homers and 50 RBI. ----------------------------------------------- I really hope the player to be named later is a big time minor leaguer or this was just a huge salary dump.... 
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Just when I started to like him. Well we do need pitching but we cant score any runs so does it matter anyway. 
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Not only do we lose to Reds, We trade Derosa for this guy and a scrub to be named later. We should of waited for a better offer. 
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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That is rock bottom when you can only cash in 3 runs off 7 walks from censored Bailey.
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Legend
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Should have waited for a better offer.....seems very early and very little for a guy like Mark.
So, who's next?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Well we do need pitching but we cant score any runs so does it matter anyway.
It's not like the Indians have scored the third most runs in all of baseball or anything. Try and know what you're talking about next time.
Get_Rowdy
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If some of our bullpen guys hadn't turned into arsonists, we'd be in 1st place easily.
Unfortunately Perez has exploded and Betancourt has been hurt. These 2 guys were huge in our bullpen last year. Woods hasn't been as dominant as he was last year with the Cubs. Add in Carmona's struggles and it's little wonder that the Indians are in the situation they find themselves in.
Overall our pitching has given up the most hits and runs in the majors. That's rather scary.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We went from suck to blow.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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cheap ass dolans.
Seriously, is this a joke? The Indians, more than any team I am a fan of, manage to have some really dumb fans. DeRosa will be a free agent at the end of this year. Jhonny Peralta is making his full time shift to 3rd base to allow Luis Valbuena to take over 2nd base. DeRosa never would have been resigned. Not because of money. How does this trade make Dolan a "cheap ass"? Getting the Cardinals 3rd best prospect, who is widely deemed a future Closer, for someone who would walk away at the end of a season. This is the exact same situation as trading Casey Blake. But God knows you were probably set against that, too. Getting a franchise Catcher or a future Closer for someone who won't be back anyway? Cheap ass Dolans.
Get_Rowdy
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The Indians are going nowhere this year and DeRosa wasn't going to be back next year, making this deal a no brainer, IMO.
The Indians get a back-of-the-bullpen power arm and a player to be named later that is reportedly a top ten prospect of the Cardinals. Here's their top ten prospects, according to Baseball America.com:
1. Colby Rasmus, of
2. Brett Wallace, 3b
3. Chris Perez, rhp
4. Jess Todd, rhp
5. Bryan Anderson, c
6. Clayton Mortensen, rhp
7. Daryl Jones, of
8. Jason Motte, rhp
9. David Freese, 3b
10. Pete Kozma, ss
If anyone subscribes to Baseball America, they could provide scouting reports on these guys. I don't subscribe. Following are the "Best Tools" in the Cardinals minor league system, again per Baseball America.com:
Best Hitter for Average - Brett Wallace
Best Power Hitter - Colby Rasmus
Best Strike-Zone Discipline - Jarrett Hoffpauir
Fastest Baserunner - Daryl Jones
Best Athlete - Daryl Jones
Best Fastball - Jason Motte
Best Curveball - Jaime Garcia
Best Slider - Chris Perez
Best Changeup - P.J. Walters
Best Control - Fernando Salas
Best Defensive Catcher - Nick Derba
Best Defensive Infielder - Pete Kozma
Best Infield Arm - Tyler Greene
Best Defensive Outfielder - Colby Rasmus
Best Outfield Arm - Jon Edwards
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FIRE SHAPIRO.
Him and Wedge are tied at the hip on this. Shapiro's also drafted as poor as Botch did with the Browns.
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I don't know much about the players, so if they are as good as people are claiming, then I'm definately cool with the trade....I was a big fan of the Blake trade, CC trade, etc...
While I think Wedge's time as come and a new voice is needed (i think he's a fine manager and will manage again in the near future), I think Shapiro is not to blame. While his draft record is questionable, I'm not sure I put that on Shaprio as much as the past minor league director. He was fired/re-assigned last year and last year's draftees are playing well.
I think the bigger concern is why would Shapiro want to remain with the Dolans?
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Quote:
Quote:
cheap ass dolans.
Seriously, is this a joke? The Indians, more than any team I am a fan of, manage to have some really dumb fans. DeRosa will be a free agent at the end of this year. Jhonny Peralta is making his full time shift to 3rd base to allow Luis Valbuena to take over 2nd base. DeRosa never would have been resigned. Not because of money. How does this trade make Dolan a "cheap ass"? Getting the Cardinals 3rd best prospect, who is widely deemed a future Closer, for someone who would walk away at the end of a season. This is the exact same situation as trading Casey Blake. But God knows you were probably set against that, too. Getting a franchise Catcher or a future Closer for someone who won't be back anyway? Cheap ass Dolans.
because i am tired of watching our only good players get traded for prospects.
hm, i dunno, how about actually keeping a guy for once? i don't care about the "best" prospect at whatever position in whomever's system.
if they trade cliff lee, i am not following them until they start treating their fans better.
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What I should of said is we cant score enough runs cause or pitching blows. Better? 
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Not only do we lose to Reds, We trade Derosa for this guy and a scrub to be named later. We should of waited for a better offer.
I'm indifferent to whatever "scrub" we get later, but I've seen this guy pitch, and he's got electric stuff.
For a team that's going nowhere this year, this is a good trade.
Now, if we can just get past the injury bug, the bullpen that can't figure it out, and an owner who's too damned cheap to get us good players in free agency....................
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I might have been a little harsh last night after watching the Tribe lose again. I didn't know anything about this pitcher we got. It does look like he is a decent pitcher and will probably help our bullpen, it certainly can't hurt it. I still think we should of waited for a better offer that was sure to turn up closer to the All Star break.
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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I would be happy enough if we could just keep our own good players (which I never really considered DeRosa to be - our own, that is). It's hard to keep watching the Belle's, Thome's, Ramirez's, Sabathia's, etc, leave or get traded after the team loses control of them. I think the time to try signing Cliff Lee long-term is now, while you still have a little leverage because he's under contract for 2010. Tear up the 2010 contract and sign Lee to the deal you offered Sabathia - he's better than CC anyway.
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This is a great trade by Shapiro.
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I would be happy enough if we could just keep our own good players (which I never really considered DeRosa to be - our own, that is). It's hard to keep watching the Belle's, Thome's, Ramirez's, Sabathia's, etc, leave or get traded after the team loses control of them. I think the time to try signing Cliff Lee long-term is now, while you still have a little leverage because he's under contract for 2010. Tear up the 2010 contract and sign Lee to the deal you offered Sabathia - he's better than CC anyway.
yup.
but i have zero faith in this organization to really make an effort to sign cliff lee.
it made me sick when they offered sabathia that contract 2 springs ago. they knew he'd turn it down, but they wanted people to think they were actually trying.
cheap ass dolans.
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The Yankees signed Sabathia to the largest ever conrtract for a pitcher. He signed for $161 over 7 years. That averages out to $23 million per year.
There's simply no way that a mid market team can afford to do a contract like that for 1 player. If he were to get hurt, or suddenly slide .... they'd be done for the better part of a decade.
When the Yankees bring in almost 3/4 of a billion in annual revenue, and the Indians bring in less than half that much, it's hard to be that upset at an owner willing to spend $17-18 million ...... but who is unable to go higher than that for 1 guy. (IMESHO)
Calling Dolan cheal is like calling a corporate mid manager cheap because he doesn't spend like Donald Trump.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Calling Dolan cheal is like calling a corporate mid manager cheap because he doesn't spend like Donald Trump.
Quoted for truth. 
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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because i am tired of watching our only good players get traded for prospects.
hm, i dunno, how about actually keeping a guy for once? i don't care about the "best" prospect at whatever position in whomever's system.
if they trade cliff lee, i am not following them until they start treating their fans better.
Get it through your head: DeRosa would not come back. He plays five positions and is a plus defender. He has always been a very good bat. He is a plus clubhouse guy. He is a veteran with experience. He is what every team wants. EVERY TEAM. The Indians got him for the same reason the Cardinals got him, to make a big run and have a guy in DeRosa to help. The Indians' season fell apart. The Indians have their future shortstop and 2nd baseman right now. This leaves Peralta under contract at a good 4.6 million for next year at third base.
So many Indians fans complain nonstop about prospects. Why would you trade for prospects? We aren't the Yankees, so accept it. We can never be the Yankees. For the vast majority of baseball teams, prospects are the life of it. Why don't the Browns trade their 1st round draft picks every year for veterans? This is the way baseball SHOULD be played. Just because it hasn't worked out lately for the team we devote our allegiance to doesn't change said fact.
The fact that you don't care about prospects closes the book on even having a conversation on baseball with you. Cliff Lee has basically stated he is determined to test the market when he becomes a free agent. He will be 32, and he deserves that. And he will be overpaid for his age. It simply isn't smart as a business, which is what the Indians are, to resign him. I don't want to trade him either. But his value is exceptionally high right now. He has a 2.67 ERA in his last 47 starts, and has a year and a half left on his contract at a very, very low price. If the Indians are to part with him, they will cash in for a lot. I like Lee, but I realize his value.
We aren't the Yankees or the Red Sox. We can't be the Yankees or the Red Sox. You should just be a Yankees or a Red Sox fan.
Get_Rowdy
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hey Rowdy.....good to see you around..
Been doing well???
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
because i am tired of watching our only good players get traded for prospects.
hm, i dunno, how about actually keeping a guy for once? i don't care about the "best" prospect at whatever position in whomever's system.
if they trade cliff lee, i am not following them until they start treating their fans better.
Get it through your head: DeRosa would not come back. He plays five positions and is a plus defender. He has always been a very good bat. He is a plus clubhouse guy. He is a veteran with experience. He is what every team wants. EVERY TEAM. The Indians got him for the same reason the Cardinals got him, to make a big run and have a guy in DeRosa to help. The Indians' season fell apart. The Indians have their future shortstop and 2nd baseman right now. This leaves Peralta under contract at a good 4.6 million for next year at third base.
So many Indians fans complain nonstop about prospects. Why would you trade for prospects? We aren't the Yankees, so accept it. We can never be the Yankees. For the vast majority of baseball teams, prospects are the life of it. Why don't the Browns trade their 1st round draft picks every year for veterans? This is the way baseball SHOULD be played. Just because it hasn't worked out lately for the team we devote our allegiance to doesn't change said fact.
The fact that you don't care about prospects closes the book on even having a conversation on baseball with you. Cliff Lee has basically stated he is determined to test the market when he becomes a free agent. He will be 32, and he deserves that. And he will be overpaid for his age. It simply isn't smart as a business, which is what the Indians are, to resign him. I don't want to trade him either. But his value is exceptionally high right now. He has a 2.67 ERA in his last 47 starts, and has a year and a half left on his contract at a very, very low price. If the Indians are to part with him, they will cash in for a lot. I like Lee, but I realize his value.
We aren't the Yankees or the Red Sox. We can't be the Yankees or the Red Sox. You should just be a Yankees or a Red Sox fan.
alright dude. first of all. i never said i didn't care about prospects.
i said i am tired of this team giving up their best players for prospects.
but, hey, thanks for putting words in my mouth.
it closes the book? lolz. book's closed. the minute you start putting words in people's mouths.
who said anything about being the yankees? when and where did i say to completely give up on our own prospects and give every mediocre player a massive contract?
how about trying to keep a team together, and becoming a better team by bringing in proven talent.
you know why we got rid of derosa? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY PROVEN TALENT.
what do tribe fans have to look forward to? being good again in another 2 or 3 years? making a 1-2 half assed run, and then breaking things down and trying to do them again?
sounds like the florida marlins. except for the part where the marlins actually go out and spend money when they feel they are ready to make a run. the dolans won't do it.
this organization is flat-out embarassing.
say it with me again.
cheap-ass-dolans.
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Calling Dolan cheal is like calling a corporate mid manager cheap because he doesn't spend like Donald Trump.
nobody is saying to just throw money around everywhere. but don't people get sick of seeing our best players sent off?
it's embarassing.
it's not all the dolans. but they do have their share.
the economics and structure of baseball are pure crap. and it's evident how the nfl has basically succeeded with them in every category. they are the national pastime.
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Anyone giving this trade a thumbs down is ignorant... Im sorry. I had to say it. DeRosa was one of my favorite Indians. He seemed to fit into what the city likes, but he was a FA at the end of the season and he is 34. So would a 35 year old FA want to sign with the Indians next season? Highly unlikely. Therefore, we trade Derosa to a contender and get that teams #1 pitching prsopect who has been deemed the "closer of the future" in that organization.
This trade was another smart move by the front office. If you have been watching, and it seems that some of you haven't, then you would know that our bullpen is disgusting. Its hard to keep the TV on when the door opens. Now... we finally have someone in the bullpen who we can at least hope for. Perez, Wood, Lewis, and Betancourt are not big league closers. This kid could actually be one. With Adam Miller's career in jeopardy, Shaprio had to do something. This is just another move along the lines of the CC and Blake trades and IMO a huge thumbs up!
we traded 3 big name players over the last 2 seasons and looke what we received....
LaPorta
Santana
Brantley
Meloan
Bryson
Perez
PTBN...
PTBN are generally pretty strong in a trade of this caliber... We have received Crisp and Brantley through PTBNs
Many of you will cry out they haven't proven anything yet, but this team was in need of young superstars and could possibly have a full roster of them now in a couple years.
Santana
Weglarz
LaPorta
Brantley
Rondon
De La Cruz
Perez
Mills
Chisenhall
Haley
House
Valbuena
Cabrera
Sizemore
BTW, Shapiro should be in jail for the Blake trade last year. That was an absolute robbery on our behalf. We get out catcher of the future in Santana. A big arm behind the plate and a bat they many have compared to a young Manny Ramirez. Plus they threw in Meloan who the Dodgers failed with because of their numerous attempts to switch him from starter to relief and then back again.
Sorry everyone.... had to get it off my chest.
What everyone should be mad about is that the Indians have to keep making these deals. IF YOU WIN GAMES THESE TYPES OF TRADES DO NOT HAPPEN. You become buyers not sellers!!!!! However, that is not happening in Cleveland and something needed to be addressed. We got the relief help and soon Pavano and possibly Francisco will be out the door as well... then Eric Wedge
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Fire sale to follow... so much for this season
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Sry M2B..........
Thats just a load of crap...where is Crisp?? where are all the PTBNL???
Gone.....not here. This team has no chance playing in this market. The money is not here to keep a Sabathia, a Thome, a Ramirez. The best thing to do as a Indians fan is to realize that we are a minor league team grooming players for the big time. We don't have the money, the smarts, and the office to build a winner. All we keep hoping for is the team gets lucky like Tampa or the Marlins and pulls something out of their butt. This team is going nowhere and I think that management is happy...
AHHHH, sorry for venting...Been a fan for 25 years...kills me to see the one or two good players struggling on a crappy team......
Bring on the Fry-Guy...get rid of Wedge and maybe the dynamic changes...IDK........I'm lost
"I don't want to play golf, when I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it"
Rogers Hornsby. St. Louis Cardinals (1915-1926)
Space Coast, Fla.
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Sry M2B..........
Thats just a load of crap...where is Crisp?? where are all the PTBNL???
Gone.....not here. This team has no chance playing in this market. The money is not here to keep a Sabathia, a Thome, a Ramirez. The best thing to do as a Indians fan is to realize that we are a minor league team grooming players for the big time. We don't have the money, the smarts, and the office to build a winner. All we keep hoping for is the team gets lucky like Tampa or the Marlins and pulls something out of their butt. This team is going nowhere and I think that management is happy...
AHHHH, sorry for venting...Been a fan for 25 years...kills me to see the one or two good players struggling on a crappy team......
Bring on the Fry-Guy...get rid of Wedge and maybe the dynamic changes...IDK........I'm lost
Where is crisp?? I think he's with the royals on the DL hitting .230, somewhere in that area.
You seem to forget we were 1 game from the world series 2 years ago. How many division titles have we won in the last 15 years.??? 7 or 8?? 2 world series in that span. you talk to any baseball fan that isn't an indians fan, and they will say the indians have a good organization. Just because we choked in 97, and in 07, doesn't damper this franchise success the past 15 years.
We're not the pirates or nationals by any stretch. Try having 17 losing seasons in a row, and come talk to me about how this franchise sucks.
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You and rowdy seem to know what's going on.
Too many fans are living on the failure of this season. they don't see the big picture, or have an idea how you build a good team when you're a mid-market team. They won't be complaining when those prospects turn into all-stars, and lead us to division titles, and playoff victories.
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looks like indians are dangling lee also web page
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Quote:
Quote:
Calling Dolan cheal is like calling a corporate mid manager cheap because he doesn't spend like Donald Trump.
nobody is saying to just throw money around everywhere. but don't people get sick of seeing our best players sent off?
it's embarassing.
it's not all the dolans. but they do have their share.
the economics and structure of baseball are pure crap. and it's evident how the nfl has basically succeeded with them in every category. they are the national pastime.
I agree that the economics of MLB are crap. I wish they had some sort of cap/revenue sharing in place ala the NFL. I think it would make for a much better product in many more markets, and would help MLB overall in restoring some semblance of being a national game. (and pastime)
Kids today don't play baseball because they don't see baseball. Football and basketball are on television all the time. Baseball? Well ..... if you get the right package you can see games. Short term good for a team because of the revenue generated ... but overall bad for national exposure and building fan interest beyond a team's local market. Further, people who might become fans aren't exposed to the game like they are football and basletball. There is very little chance of building your market if no one sees your product ..... and if your product can't compete.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have a feeling Cliff Lee is next on the trade block.
I'm so tired of prospects...everyone's fascinated by them. Well guess what? When they get to the bigs they SUCK! Unless their names are Victor Martinez and Grady Sizemore.
Remember drooling over Andy Marte? What an All-Star he turned out to be.
I'm with LBJ...cheap ass Dolans. And guess what? The Tribe fanbase is APATHETIC now. They don't wanna build us a team until attendance turns around? Well it's not gonna happen because we don't believe in ownership.
Dolans: SELL THE TEAM.
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Yeah! Let's find a really rich owner .... one who won't care about losing millions and millions of dollars every year .......
Baseball's problems go much deeper than one owner's perceived "cheapness".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
For every Andy Marte, we've had the likes of Hafner, Lee, Cabrera, Choo, Sizemore, Westbrook. Plus as Mercer has stated plenty of those guys in the minors like Laporta, Brantley, Rondon, Santana will be up here sooner than later.
If I lived closer to the jake, I would attend plenty of games. You can't beat going to the game for $10 bucks a seat.
As I've stated earlier too many fans let their emotions show because of a down year. In a year or two, if these prospects work out, none will be complaining, and will be praising shipiro for the great moves he made. It's happened before.
Honestly I've been more disappointed in the browns ineptness, than any other team. Their futility the past 10 years is right up there with the pirates, lions, and clippers, as far as I'm concerned.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
As I've stated many times, I'm all for a firsale. It's been no secret Lee, and the indians front office have developed a rift the past few years. many have speculated it on the indians sending Lee down to triple-a, in 07, and leaving him off the playoff roster. I would love to keep him, but if he wants to test the market, he's as good as gone in my opinion. I don't think you could offer him more than 4 years, $64 million. JUst becuase of his age. I think $16-18 is the type of contract Lee will get. If we received a good deal for him, I would do it this year. If not, I would wait until the off-season.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306 |
For those calling Dolan a cheap ass (not you Trella) How many of you would pay 6,000 a month in bills when you make 4,000 a month?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Quote:
For those calling Dolan a cheap ass (not you Trella) How many of you would pay 6,000 a month in bills when you make 4,000 a month?
I agree.
The bottom line is the guys we have aren't good enough or simply not playing well.
The first move you try is a new manager unless you are sitting on a Bobby Cox or Tony LaRussa...then you can eliminate the leadership factor......but Eric Wedge is no Bobby Cox.
If things still don't click...you start over...that is the way it has always been and always will be.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
I'm more upset that we've stuck with the same damn philosophy that hasn't worked.
Reghi went on a rant about this yesterday and I completely agree. We've been to the playoffs once in seven seasons and we stick to the same formula? Our drafts have been terrible yet Shapiro's still very stable in his job? The Indians have been one of the worst fundamental baseball teams in the game, CONSISTENTLY, and Wedge's job is still safe?
Something's VERY wrong with that, and it all falls on ownership.
Many criticize Randy Lerner for firing coaches too quickly and not settling on stability...well screw that, I've seen stability out of the Indians...too much of it, and it makes me sick.
Keep in mind I was raised on the 90's Indians...this team couldn't be further from it. Many people my age agree and are sick of it. We're becoming apathetic and just not caring anymore. When you lose the passion of the fan base, you've lost the city.
I wish Dan Gilbert could somehow buy the Indians...
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Indians' DeRosa traded
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