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#394561 07/07/09 11:26 AM
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The Ad Manager said it was moved, but I can't find it as a stand alone or added to some threads someone might have though appropriate.

It was a pretty good breakdown IMO and was wondering what in the world made it worthy of deletion?

It is a pretty slow time of the year with room for lots of less than great stuff to be posted and thought this was a solid football topic more than worthy of a look and discussion..


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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I'm pretty sure it was deleted because it didn't play up Brady Quinn to Diam's liking.


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Peen, I pulled that because it's basically just linking to another board. And the article, while interesting and informative, was written by a blogger/board member who doesn't fit the "credible source" requirement of the rule.

However, instead of deleting it I've just moved it aside for the moment. I'll get back to you on this.

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I figured that was it.

First....all links shove you to something...I am not site pimping if anybody is worried about that.

I think some common sense needs to be used with regard to "blogs". If Mangini started a blog page, would it be denied??

One can read the article and tell it is pretty darn credible in so far as content.

It doesn't appear to be some ballpeen or whoever else just making a post. It was a in depth, well researched piece....better than 90% of the junk the Plain Dealer puts out.

It sounds like you are at least considering the deal, and that is good enough.

Whatever you decide is fine by me, though I know how I would decide.


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Just tossing my 2 cents in here.

Perhaps the rule needs to be looked at for possible revision. When the board started, that rule needed to be there. But since that time, there has been a pretty big explosion of blogging. There are a lot of folks out there now that have blogs for various reasons. Some are very well known and accomplished writers with some pretty good opinion pieces and informational items. Maybe the anti-blog rule can be adjusted to stay with the current times?


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I understand what you're saying, Keys, but the problem is, where do you cut it off? You'd essentially have to make a list of *acceptable* blogs and stick to that. Then, you'd have people who say "well, the one I posted is just as legitimate as the other one!"

It's almost easier, from a moderator's standpoint, to just ban them all than have to pick and choose which ones should stay and which should go.

I know that some blogs are allowed, but those are the ones written by the sportswriters on their sites (for example Canton Repository, Plain Dealer, etc.). I think this is acceptable because these have greatly replaced articles in the paper.

But, some guy who happens to be respected throws something on his own site or something, you start to run into problems.

That's JMHO and someone can correct me if I'm wrong.


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You hit it pretty square.

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Quote:

But, some guy who happens to be respected throws something on his own site or something, you start to run into problems.




You are right......most guys who know something about the game aren't writing for newspapers or magazines.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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I take just the opposite tack on this issue.

I say allow all blogs. The people on here are smart enough to realize that something is crap shortly after they start reading it. I really don't think we need a group of moderators to tell us what we can and cannot read.

I'm a big freedom of speech guy and I've always thought this board is way over-moderated. I mean, really, as much as most of you guys gripe about the Plain Dealer writers you can't tell me at least some of the blogs out there aren't better written or more interesting than some of the beat writers stuff.

I think we could figure out on our own whether someone is blowing smoke up our keisters or not.


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While I can understand the position, I don't understand the reason to exclude sources that are becoming more and more a part of our communications every day. With the newspapers going out of business, we will see a larger number of writers going to the internet on their own blogs to try to make ends meet. To exclude them because the mods don't want to sort through them seems foolish to me.

I understand they are doing the moderating as a non-paid position and in a volunteer manor. But just seems a bit much to exclude something because it may be more work. Let the board members figure out which blogs are sources of good knowledge and which aren't. Most of us are fairly intelligent and can put 2 and 2 together.


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I don't see why board members shouldn't be able to link to their own blogs.

Much of the opinions coincide with what they write on the board, but it also helps promote their site.

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And then you'd have nothing but site pimpers inundating the board with the links to their crappy ass blogs that they have convinced themselves are actually worth reading.

No thanks.

People have plenty of space here to voice their very important and informative opinions.

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And then you'd have nothing but site pimpers inundating the board with the links to their crappy ass blogs that they have convinced themselves are actually worth reading.

No thanks.

People have plenty of space here to voice their very important and informative opinions.




If it coincides with the discussion, I don't see the big deal. As in you should be able to reply to something, but not create your own thread about it.

If it's just a "HEY LOOK AT MY BLOG!" thread, then I see how it can be a problem.

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Quote:

but it also helps promote their site.




This board does not care in the slightest if anyone's blog is promoted or not, nor will it ever.

If you want to post your opinion, then post your opinion, not a link to it.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Maybe Blogs should maybe be allowed if it mentions that the content is from a blog.. like having a [BLOG] flag in the title.


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I got an Idea why don't we just follow the rules of the board


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Indeed. Leave well enough alone, because things are fine the way they are.
I'm not interested in someone's attention seeking blogs; we have Dawgtalkers, which provides more than ample opportunity to post opinions.


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Indeed. Leave well enough alone, because things are fine the way they are.
I'm not interested in someone's attention seeking blogs; we have Dawgtalkers, which provides more than ample opportunity to post opinions.




You call it attention-seeking, I call it "attempting to go legit."

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I thought that "attempting to go legit" was a process, with a learning curve, whereby someone studies a subject until they become at least somewhat of an authority on it, has social and business contacts within that realm, and also understands the specifics and complexities of the subject so that he therefore has a valid, respected and sought after opinion.

If all going "legit" means is starting a blog whether one has any idea what they're talking about or not, then absolutely anyone can do it. Anyone can start a blog.

So if everyone starts a blog then everyone's "legit"?

If only it were that easy.

And if one does start a blog as the first step in following the process to become "legit", that doesn't mean that this board is legally bound to allow such blogs to be posted while the author struggles through the learning curve in his quest of authentically having a clue.

I am a graphic artist. With that skill I can design, print and sign myself a "Certificate of Authorization to Perform Brain Surgery". But it doesn't make me a brain surgeon.


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I thought that "attempting to go legit" was a process, with a learning curve, whereby someone studies a subject until they become at least somewhat of an authority on it, has social and business contacts within that realm, and also understands the specifics and complexities of the subject so that he therefore has a valid, respected and sought after opinion.

If all going "legit" means is starting a blog whether one has any idea what they're talking about or not, then absolutely anyone can do it. Anyone can start a blog.

So if everyone starts a blog then everyone's "legit"?

If only it were that easy.

And if one does start a blog as the first step in following the process to become "legit", that doesn't mean that this board is legally bound to allow such blogs to be posted while the author struggles through the learning curve in his quest of authentically having a clue.

I am a graphic artist. With that skill I can design, print and sign myself a "Certificate of Authorization to Perform Brain Surgery". But it doesn't make me a brain surgeon.




My thought process is this...

Media is changing. Why apply for a job and go the traditional route, working in small newspapers for low pay, tied to AP-style journalistic standards? That would suck. I don't even want that to be my career anyway. My writing is a hobby.

Look at Profootballtalk.com. Florio took his hobby and turned it into an empire. That's something I'd like to achieve.

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Quote:

I thought that "attempting to go legit" was a process, with a learning curve, whereby someone studies a subject until they become at least somewhat of an authority on it, has social and business contacts within that realm, and also understands the specifics and complexities of the subject so that he therefore has a valid, respected and sought after opinion.





See that paragraph? That one right there?
Dubia is bang-on in his assessment.

Ammo, being "tied to AP-style journalistic standards" wouldn't be a bad thing. If more journalists felt it important to maintain standards, people might not despise the media as much as they do these days.


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Quote:

My thought process is this...

Media is changing. Why apply for a job and go the traditional route, working in small newspapers for low pay, tied to AP-style journalistic standards? That would suck. I don't even want that to be my career anyway. My writing is a hobby.

Look at Profootballtalk.com. Florio took his hobby and turned it into an empire. That's something I'd like to achieve.





I guess that, in a nutshell, is where I have a problem with your thought process. Why study brain surgery when I could just start doing it? Eventually someone I operate on will live through it. Is that how someone becomes "legit"?

Regarding blogs: There's a lot more to being authoritative in a field then simply being published. It used to be, going the traditional route, it was a requirement that you be authoritative on a subject just to get published at all. But as you say, media is changing, any Tom, Dick and Ammo can be published on the internet because there are no requirements. The only requirement is the desire to do so. There's not much backing that up.

So in the beginning, some people may read a blog and believe what they read, even if the blogger don't know crap. They'll believe him because he's published. He has a blog. If enough people read that blog and accepts his opinion as a basis for their own then all that's been accomplished is to have watered down the knowledge base. They'll try and talk on the subject with others who gain their information from more accredited sources and arguments will ensue. They won't understand the grief they are getting because they know they got their information from the "internet". What they don't know is that the information was crap from the start. Why? Because the blogger was not authoritative on the subject since he was just starting out. But who knew?

The world is certainly changing. But changing media or not, there is no shortcut to becoming proficient. There is no shortcut to becoming an expert. If that is the goal one wishes to attain then one must practice and study and practice and study and practice and study. And if the goal is to become a virtuoso violinist please excuse me if I choose not to listen to the practicing while it still sounds of the shrieks as the pulling of a cat's tail.

The same goes for blogs. I'll go for the accredited people who are in the know, have plenty of background and inside information and have been working in the field long enough to be authoritative on the subject.

What you are making it sound like, for example, is that you don't like my opinion on football because really, let's face it, I'm only ddubia. What the hell do I know? But were I to publish the same opinion in my blog then you should give it more credence and merit because, after all, it's in a blog.

I'm not suggesting that you don't blog. I'd never discourage anyone from writing as a hobby in hopes that someday they'll both become, and be accepted as, a professional. But in the meantime, especially starting out, you can't expect, for example, this site, (which has a policy of trying to keep the internet links to football talk of a accurate, factual, bona fide, legitimate, official, trustworthy, valid and verifiable nature by linking only to accredited, credible sources), to allow your blog to be posted in the message board.

If that were to happen we'd all start blogs and get them posted on the board. Which, by the way, is what we all do anyway. We post our opinions freely and without limit. We just don't link to them to give them the false appearance of being "legit".


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