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if enough of us do it, maybe they'll have enough cash to re-sign Grady when his contract is up.
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Keeping Lee, Colon, CC, Sizemore, Thome, Belle, or Manny wouldn't guarantee us a championship. And trading them won't guarantee that either. You go as deep as you can with the players you have, period.
Belle.......went on to win nothing with the White Sox
Thome......won jack with the Phills
Manny.....won two WS (but it was with a team that bought most of its talent)
Colon.....went on to win nothing and became a joke!
Maybe Lee wins another Cy Young award next year.....or maybe he finds himself back in the minors. He's really only had to above average years. I wouldn't call him a savior at all.
CC.......he's pitching well with the Yanks but let's wait to see how he does in the playoffs. You know, that place where he was a complete joke with us.
The Indians will make runs like the Twins, Rays, and Marlins. When we are in position, you have to win. We didn't take advantage in 2005 and 2007......that's not the GM's or the owners fault. The players were right there but choked. We'll be in contention in 2011.....and it will be up to them if they win the whole thing.
Spending cash doesn't guarantee anything. The Mets are proof to that.
You guys are forgetting something....the other small and mid-market teams are all doing the same thing! Twins lost Santana AND Torii Hunter. They're still winning cause they rebuild when they can....and they have as many down years as that have up. It's the same thing we're going through. We're just impatient (maybe if we had won in '97 people would be quicker to understand the plan with this trade).
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'd rather follow a more fun to watch team though.
the good times feel even better when you are a fan through the bad times. older tribe fans know this to be true.
browns fans sorta know this to be true (at least we have a team to complain about...and hopefully an improving one)
i know i'm not going to change your mind though..
WHAT GOOD TIMES? THERE ARE NO GOOD TIMES! When your ownership won't spend the money to put a winning product on the field there are ZERO fun times!
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As for this particular debacle, you can't just give away two Cy Young winners and NOT get ANY MLB-ready pitching in return. We didn't get pitching with the Sabbathia deal. This deal should have been Drabek/Happ or bust. Period. I really don't understand Carrasco's rating because he's struggled at every minor league level except A ball. He's currently something like 6-9 with an ERA of 5-something in AAA. That's not MLB-ready. That's not even MLB-probable at this point.
Exactly...
Ok Dolans, if it's rebuild time yet again then it better be a top to bottom organizational rebuild! Shapiro, Wedge and the whole gang!
John Farrel as Manager or GM? Promote Travis Fryman to the bigs to manage? He's excellent with the young guys, give him a shot here and let them grow together.
The team needs a whole new vision!!!
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CC.......he's pitching well with the Yanks but let's wait to see how he does in the playoffs. You know, that place where he was a complete joke with us.
Agree, he's what 10-7 with a above ERA. I think the Yankee's & thier fan were expecting alot more from CC for what thier paying him, Can you imagion some Indians fans screaming we should have traded him if he would be putting up those types of numbers for us instead of the Yankees.
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I didn't say we didn't have a high payroll. I didn't say we didn't sign high priced free agents. I simply said that under the current rules that we, unlike the Yankees, run our franchise the right way.
You can't win with all high priced free agent signings. You can't win with all homegrown talent. You can't win by trades. You have to have a mixture. Period.
And as far as the 2004 team. Come on, dude. You and I both know that was perhaps the worst team to win a World Series in the past decade.
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WHAT GOOD TIMES? THERE ARE NO GOOD TIMES! When your ownership won't spend the money to put a winning product on the field there are ZERO fun times!
I've had many, many great times watching the Tribe drop 100+ a season at the old Muni...
I've had great times watching the Browns go 4-12 as well.
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WHAT GOOD TIMES? THERE ARE NO GOOD TIMES! When your ownership won't spend the money to put a winning product on the field there are ZERO fun times!
I've had many, many great times watching the Tribe drop 100+ a season at the old Muni...
I've had great times watching the Browns go 4-12 as well.
That's great...
I grew up on the 90's Indians, when they were worth a damn.
The Browns are headed for better days.
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trading players for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects who will turn into players who will be traded for more prospects.
which begs the question, which came first, the prospect, or the trade for the prospect?
Dolan/Shrapnol need to be traded for Front Office prospects..anyone who thinks the Indians got some talent is crazy..and don't know much about how to build a team..they ALWAYS trade their best players for minor league players...thats why the team looks like a minor league team...and thats the only kind of players that Wedge can manage..he can't handle grown adult players with attitudes..
U cannot compete if you continue to trade away players for prospects..it's like the Indians develop talent to trade to contenders..
I already know Shrapnol will try to spin it was the best time to make the deal and the guys they got are going to be their core players..
They are a diaster and a poorly run team...from top to bottom..I have no respect for them ..I had little before but none now.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/29/09 04:15 PM.
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it's gonna be like the old days at the muni where it was "have your own section" night
Those were my favorite times with the Tribe.
The 90's were fun...after they re-tooled I was living in NYC and didn't really keep up...they stopped feeling like my team and haven't ever since.
'95-'99 was amazing. '95 was the most amazing sports year ever for me. i was too young to really understand what happened with the browns in the mid 80's.
i was 14 when the tribe won 100 games out of 144. every night you felt the indians were going to win. down 2 in the 9th? no big deal. we'd come back.
it was unbelievable. the characters, the personalities. and the calm in the storm good guy manager.
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Just clicking...
Some of you guys really crack me up. "I'm done with this team!" They're dead to me, off with their heads, form a posse and fetch the pitchforks!!!
I'm 29 years old and was 12 the last time my team finished .500. .500!!! And I'm more excited today to be a fan of the Pittsburgh Pirates than really at any point in the last decade and a half+. (Exceptions being combined no-no in '97 and the All-Star games of 1994 and 2006).
Since Neal Huntington - your former boy in Cleveland - took over roughly 2 years ago gone are Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, LaChoke, McLouth several others and now Jack Wilson today. Freddie Sanchez will probably be gone by Friday afternoon - at least I hope so. We weren't winning ANYTHING with them, why not ship em out for legitimate prospects? Which is what has been done for the first time in the previously mentioned 17 years. We've actually got some pitching depth, some real power showing up at the big club and now in the minors and seem to be developing a GLUT of very talented outfielders.
Sure later this year we're gonna break the record of futility set by the Phillies of long ago in completing our 17th losing season in a row - and frankly, 2010 may not be much better. But 2011? Look out - very well could be something there.
My personal definition of a "real" fan of anything is that you give your heart to whatever it is in good times and bad. Ammo - you're clearly not a hardcore Tribe fan so don't let it beat you down - just turn on your Yankees. For those that are Tribe fans I know it sucks today and it'll suck for awhile now but you've had a hell of a run for about 15 years and the cycle is now turning over - good times will come again. I hope for you that the wait isn't 17 years to finish above .500, lol.
And as I tell people from time to time - I absolutely LOVE the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Cleveland Browns - no one will ever say I'm a frontrunner lol.
GO BUCS!!!
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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Think everyone just needs to take a deep breath. We had our chances in 1997 and 2007 and our "horses" BLEW it. In the world of small market teams, you're going to see a valley after a peak. That's just typically how it works. The run we went on in the early 90's is an idiotic barometer for success. It was the perfect storm, a once in a lifetime collection of small market talent. That is NEVER going to happen again, I would honestly wager my life savings on it. It also came at a time when the have's and have nots of baseball were more jumbled together. In 10 years, the game is COMPLETELY different from an economic perspective. Blaming that on a BUSINESS owner (Dolan) is silly....or trying to hold up a franchise, to a bar that was set in the stratosphere, is completely unrealistic. To think this team has had TWO chances to win a WS title in 10+ years and people are whining THIS much is crazy. I mean, think about that. The Indians have had more chances to win a title in the last 15 years (3), then any other team in the city has in the last 60+ years. Now, I realize they lost in the ALCS in 07' but the Rockies were a complete fluke team (as Boston demonstrated). Up 3-1, with only the Rockies to roll through, was essentially blowing a WS title....thus, I count it as such. They've been fairly competitive year in and year out with a few spikes here and there. That's just how it is. Go lineup all the small market teams in baseball and see how many have been deep in the playoffs (LCS or WS) year in and year out. The Indians have performed much better then almost all the small market teams in baseball (save 1 or 2). It sucks to ship off proven players, but that's just how the game has evolved. I suppose people can be upset about it but to stay competitive, you have to reload from time to time. Trading CC and Lee has infused our ailing farm system with a lot of new blood. Wether it pays off or not remains to be seen but give it a chance. Given that this team doesn't have 150 million to spend year in and year out, I'm not sure how else you build a competitive team with limited financial resources? If someone has a viable answer to that, they can make a lot of money as a GM. 
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This makes me totally sick to my stomach. I can't wait to see how many people show up to the home games, shapiro is driving this team straight into the ground. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Why are U even in here? Just because U want to belove a loser team doesn't mean fans with a brain want to belove a team run into a sewer. Don't even try to council anyone and tell them what a fan is..stupid is something I leave for people who don't use logic..and the Pirates/Indians are not what a fan wants to root for..they're a joke of organizations ..
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Legend
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I grew up on the 90's Indians, when they were worth a damn.
And so you're baseball spoiled.
I don't mean that to be insulting...if I was raised on those squads, I'd probably be testy...but I wouldn't root for the Yankees. 
I lived in the city and I couldn't do that.
To be completely honest...I was in Miami when the Marlins first came to exist. I went to a LOT of games...adopted them as my second team. The way I saw it, the Marlins were in the NL and would never play us save for the World Series, which wasn't going to happen with an expansion team whose #1 was a geriatic Charlie Hough. 
That World Series was complicated for me.
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The Browns are headed for better days.
That motto was est. 1986.
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Everything you're saying is ifs and buts. What we know is that Lee is a top-flight pitcher. What we don't know is if any of the guys we traded him for will ever set foot on the grass of Progressive Field without taking their kids to family fun night. You simply cannot continue to trade known commodities for question marks. There is no reason we should not have gotten one player in this deal that we know can come in and compete as early as the start of 2010. If there was no deal to be had, we should have kept Lee and exercised his option. But the Dolans told Shapiro to dump payroll.
And the Rays? Did you forget that they had their first ever winning season in franchise history last year? The Marlins have won two WS titles, but aside from those two seasons, they have three winning seasons in their 15-year existence (5 total). The Twins have had a couple playoff appearances but have been largely irrelevant for the better part of the past two decades. They have "success" now because they have a great farm system.
Call me crazy, but I don't call more losing seasons than winning ones, with a playoff appearance every 7 or 8 years, successful. But that is the fate of the small-market team.
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preds for indians, straight up?
Now you're talking! Screw MLB... Let's get a REAL sport in here.  
i honestly think, and god forbid, if lebron left town, the cavs would probably fold or move a few years afterward...
and if that happened, and like i said, i hope not and i don't think it'd happen, that could open the door for an nhl squad.
i think cleveland would be a prime spot for an nhl team.
i don't see it happening because i think lbj stays longterm. i'm not 100% on it but i am really leaning that way.
and a team would have to leave, c-town would be the smallest (by far) city to house a team in the big 4.
but i really think clevelanders would get into it. hockey players aren't like baseball, basketball, or football players. most of the guys are down to earth, hard working, humble guys.
i think the people of cleveland could really appreciate it.
plus cleveland has great crowds. probably the loudest in sports, and hockey is the most exciting sport to watch in person, by far.
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j/c. Carlos Carrasco will be an ace or a number 2 within 3 years. Lou Marson is an excellent catching prospect. Between those two(who happen to be 2 of the 3 best Phillies' prospects) we got two very talented players. Brown and Donald should be very solid as well. Wouldn't be surprised if he winds up starting for us at 3B in a couple years. Frustrating? yes. However, the Indians got a good deal and until the salary cap in baseball is fixed, this is what teams that don't have the money to compete will have to do.
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The sport's radio out here are making the Dollan's look sooo cheap, and DUMB! Basiclly they do not care!  
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I like the fact that we are building pitching through trades, but I am really baffled by this move...
Shapiro says he wants Major League ready talent.... the prize prospect we got in this deal is 18 years old. Could he be an ace? YES! However, that is likely 4 years from now.... I can't believe Happ wasn't involved in this deal.
Drabek scares me because of the injury issues so I am not disappointed in that, but we should have gotten Happ instead of Carrasco IMO... the least we could have done was get rid of Donald from the deal and throw in Taylor (forget first name, but he is a stud OF)
Also.... Lou Marson being a part of this deal only pushes Victor further out the door.
I wanted C.C. gone and now Lee because I knew we couldn't resign, but Victor wanted to retire here and you don't see too many players like that now days.... He would have given this team a hometown discount and enjoyed the rest of his career here. I have feeling he will be with the Red Sox by this time tomorrow.... likely for Masterson since Buccholz is untouchable.
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Everyone who grew up spoiled on the late '90's Indians are forgetting one thing ... We LOST 105 games in the 1991 season. To take major leaps forward you have to take a few steps back. That's what the Florida Marlins have done twice, and they've won two World Series as well. That's what Arizona and the Rays had to do as well. They all had AWFUL teams, and spent 2-3 years gaining prospects and building through high draft picks. And then it all came together a few years later.
One of the worst things we can do it try and tread-water with core players that just aren't cutting it. We can sign a free agent here or there, but all that's really going to do is MAYBE get us into the playoffs. We need to reload. Do what we did in the early 90's and stock-pile the minors for a major run in another 2,3 or 4 years. These are the long term moves that are going to stink right now, but are going to make us much better in the future.
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make us much better in the future.
I understand what you are saying, But how do you not get better prospect's? they had 2 to 3 more far better!...jmho.
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Regardless I believe Wedge is finished here. Heck, he brings up Marte to see if he can be an everyday player and sits him for a rest today! He's been up what 1-2 games?!
His handling of LaPorta was also idiotic! Sporadic starts for a guy you were rying to evaluate!
I thought Wedge was a great manager for young players!
Again, go after Farrel (why he'd leave Boston I don't know but give it a shot)
or promote Fryman to the bigs to work with these youngsters!
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Again, go after Farrel (why he'd leave Boston I don't know but give it a shot)
or promote Fryman to the bigs to work with these youngsters!
I like this analogy 
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Legend
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Fans show for the Cavs because they have Lebron and they're winning. It has NOTHING to do with Dan Gilbert's willingness to spend. YES, they don't win without his money.....but the hype Lebron brings sells that place out.
No, it has to do with the draft lottery, which is luck. But even with LeBron, without Z and Mo and the supporting cast continuing to get better (the cast that Gilbert pays for), they might still fill seats but the buzz around the Cavs would be significantly less.
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Indians didn't set that sellout streak because of Dick Jacobs....they did it with wins. Cleveland is a town of front-runners.....
Not really. Cleveland is a town with a very weak economy and has been for a long time. If I've got a bunch of money I might go see a movie I doubt is going to be all that good just to go do something... if I've got a very limited entertainment budget, I'm going to make sure it's a good movie before I spend the money. Same with baseball, I'm not going to spend the money to go watch my team very often when they have about a 40% chance of winning and are hemorraging good players.
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When the Cavs and Indians are great......they show up and spend. Spending doesn't create wins, the Mets and Knicks are proof there.
They don't have to be great. Did a quick graph of attendance compared to winning percentage and after '02, when the whole sellout thing died down, it's a perfectly direct correlation.. as winning goes up, so does attendance. If they want to sell 27,000 seats a game instead of 22,000... go .500. Thats what it takes. So, 5,000 extra seats x 81 home games x $40 a person for ticket, beverages, food, etc... dude, that's another $16.2 MILLION a year in revenue, if they can get their winning percentage to .500... I will say this, the bad economy this year is magnifying the effects of the losing season, in a big way.
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Winning brings fans in. This trade may create more wins down the road in 2011-2015. Hey, we ALL bashed the Bartolo Colon trade and that brought in Stevens, Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips. That seemed to work out well.
It may, it may not.. that's the problem. I KNOW that CC was going to pitch good games, I KNOW that Lee was going to pitch good games... now we've gotten rid of proven commodities for a crap shoot.
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get something now and build for 2011-15.
This is why people are cynical... sign them now, then some will turn out to be good and be gone in 2011/2012 when we are under .500 at the all-star break... and the cycle of rebuilding continues.
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MLB sucks....but we can be stronger with this trade.
And there you have it...
yebat' Putin
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j/c
Some of you guys are being babies. What part of 42-59 do you not understand? Cliff Lee obviously wasn't helping you to a championship this year, and it is obvious that with your current team, you aren't going places. But with these prospects, you have a chance to make a run in a few years. You got some great prospects for someone whose contract is up in two years, before you have a chance to make a run.
You complain about not every winning. You almost won a world series two years ago. I, as a Reds fan, don't ever remember my team even making the playoffs. I, as a Browns fan, vaguely remember my team making the playoffs once. Yet, you complain that the Indians suck.
You are being irrational bandwagon riders who threaten to withdraw their support or even switch teams. Never have I been more ashamed of my fellow Browns fans who are supposed to be known for their loyalty.
Again, this is not directed at everyone.
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j/c
Some of you guys are being babies. What part of 42-59 do you not understand? Cliff Lee obviously wasn't helping you to a championship this year, and it is obvious that with your current team, you aren't going places. But with these prospects, you have a chance to make a run in a few years. You got some great prospects for someone whose contract is up in two years, before you have a chance to make a run.
You complain about not every winning. You almost won a world series two years ago. I, as a Reds fan, don't ever remember my team even making the playoffs. I, as a Browns fan, vaguely remember my team making the playoffs once. Yet, you complain that the Indians suck.
You are being irrational bandwagon riders who threaten to withdraw their support or even switch teams. Never have I been more ashamed of my fellow Browns fans who are supposed to be known for their loyalty.
Again, this is not directed at everyone.
I like reading your post's...But on this one you are ?Way of base....It's not that we are being babie's, but for as long as I can remember, We have traided away some verry good player's, for the longest time the Indian's were known as the minor league of MLB.
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but for as long as I can remember, We have traided away some verry good player's, for the longest time the Indian's were known as the minor league of MLB.
It works both ways.
I remember when folks were furious that we traded Joe Carter. Netted us Alomar and Baerga.
Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I have no problem with that practice...my concern is with the judgment of the prospects.
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I've never had confidence in this ownership. I think the younger Dolens is just weird! I'm not gonna go off and call them super cheap but I really can't remember a crucial mid season addition when we were close.
As far as Wedge. I liked him. I still like him as a man. I seriously feel he has done all he can with this team and this organization even with injuries and all
over the years. He's lost them.
It's just time for a new vision.
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my concern is with the judgment of the prospects.
You are so right on that ...have we made some good traide's? yes...But how many bad one's have happened?
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That's what you guys don't get. With the way the MLB is set up, the Tribe has no choice but to trade. They can't afford to keep all these big salaries. So they do the only thing they can. When they aren't succeeding, they trade their big names for prospects who can help them to make a run in a year or two. It's the only way they can compete with the Yankees and the Red Sox.
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That's what you guys don't get. With the way the MLB is set up, the Tribe has no choice but to trade. They can't afford to keep all these big salaries. So they do the only thing they can. When they aren't succeeding, they trade their big names for prospects who can help them to make a run in a year or two. It's the only way they can compete with the Yankees and the Red Sox.
No! I do get it But when it happen's as much as it doe's...There is somthing wrong, you get prospect's, 3 year's latter they are gone!
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Some of you guys are being babies. What part of 42-59 do you not understand? Cliff Lee obviously wasn't helping you to a championship this year, and it is obvious that with your current team, you aren't going places.
All personal insults aside.. if the Yankees have a bad year, do they get rid of Jeter and A-Rod and Posada for 15 great prospects? No.. they KEEP the good parts and try to upgrade the weak parts.. the Indians (and other small market teams) are constantly getting rid of the GOOD PARTS in hopes of finding other good parts... it's a losing philosophy that fails far more often than it succeeds. I suppose if the Vikings underperform this year and are under .500 at the midpoint, maybe they should trade Adrian Peterson for a few draft picks... that's what you're saying.
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You are being irrational bandwagon riders who threaten to withdraw their support or even switch teams.
I am neither irrational or a bandwagon rider... I've just become somewhat disinterested with the whole sport of MLB because of the salary disparity... As a Browns fans, I can point fingers and place blame because the field in the NFL, when it comes to building a winner, is pretty darn level. It depends on the right personnel from top to bottom.... the Indians could have all of the right people from top to bottom and STILL be at a huge disadvantage to half a dozen other teams that could just spend them into oblivion.... I'm an Indians fan, always will be an Indians fan, if they have a good year I'll root like hell for them, but I can't say I'm going to lose any sleep waiting for it to happen...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
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This is why people are cynical... sign them now, then some will turn out to be good and be gone in 2011/2012 when we are under .500 at the all-star break... and the cycle of rebuilding continues.
Well the alternative is to stay with the status-quo, and pretty much guarantee that we'll be sub-500 and have everyone leaving the team come free-agency. At least with prospects coming in, there's a much better chance that things will pan out and we'll have a team like the 1995-1998 Indians, or 1997/2003 Marlins, or 2001 Diamondbacks, or 2002 Angels, or 2007 Rockies, or 2008 Rays ... you know, teams that decided to pack it in, suck for a couple of years while restocking their prospects and actually building a team that could get to a World Series.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276 |
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All personal insults aside.. if the Yankees have a bad year, do they get rid of Jeter and A-Rod and Posada for 15 great prospects? No.. they KEEP the good parts and try to upgrade the weak parts.. the Indians (and other small market teams) are constantly getting rid of the GOOD PARTS in hopes of finding other good parts... it's a losing philosophy that fails far more often than it succeeds. I suppose if the Vikings underperform this year and are under .500 at the midpoint, maybe they should trade Adrian Peterson for a few draft picks... that's what you're saying.
Verry good response Guess I wasnt making my self clear
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
I can understand the frustration, but you have some people who are overreacting, acting like this is a terrible move. Quite frankly, I'd be happy with it as a Tribe fan. You can't tell me that threatening to become a Yankees fan isn't being a baby.
And it's not like the Tribe goes around trading all their studs. They only do it when it makes sense. With CC, they had no other choice, and they delayed it as long as possible. With Lee, it was their best option. If they had traded Grady, I would've understood. But they didn't, and they won't, unless it becomes absolutely necessary..
And won't it be worth it if you win a world series?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
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All personal insults aside.. if the Yankees have a bad year, do they get rid of Jeter and A-Rod and Posada for 15 great prospects? No.. they KEEP the good parts and try to upgrade the weak parts.
WE AREN'T THE FREAKING YANKEES!! Nobody is. If the Yankees have a bad year ... they spend $200 million in free agent acquisitions and hope that solves the problem. Incidentally, they haven't won a World Series since 2000 anyway.
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the Indians (and other small market teams) are constantly getting rid of the GOOD PARTS in hopes of finding other good parts
Because it's the best way to get BETTER parts. You can spend $20 million on a guy like Bartolo Colon in Free Agency, and if he turns into a bloated tub of lard ... you are financially strapped. If you trade for 3 decent prospects ... and none of them pan out ... you still have money available for any last minute upgrades if we happen to need one.
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... it's a losing philosophy that fails far more often than it succeeds.
Bullcrap! It's about the only philosophy that DOES work if you're a small market team.
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I suppose if the Vikings ...
You can't compare MLB to NFL ... there's no salary cap in baseball, and that has huge ramifications. The Vikings don't have to worry about AP leaving in a few years because the Giants through a $60 million a year deal at him. There's also no farm system in football, where you can build your team for the future. Horrible comparison.
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I am neither irrational or a bandwagon rider... I've just become somewhat disinterested with the whole sport of MLB because of the salary disparity... As a Browns fans, I can point fingers and place blame because the field in the NFL, when it comes to building a winner, is pretty darn level. It depends on the right personnel from top to bottom.... the Indians could have all of the right people from top to bottom and STILL be at a huge disadvantage to half a dozen other teams that could just spend them into oblivion.... I'm an Indians fan, always will be an Indians fan, if they have a good year I'll root like hell for them, but I can't say I'm going to lose any sleep waiting for it to happen...
Then be mad at MLB not the Indians ... the FO is doing what they need to do to make noise a few years down the road.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276 |
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I can understand the frustration, but you have some people who are overreacting, acting like this is a terrible move. Quite frankly, I'd be happy with it as a Tribe fan. You can't tell me that threatening to become a Yankees fan isn't being a baby.
And it's not like the Tribe goes around trading all their studs. They only do it when it makes sense. With CC, they had no other choice, and they delayed it as long as possible. With Lee, it was their best option. If they had traded Grady, I would've understood. But they didn't, and they won't, unless it becomes absolutely necessary..
And won't it be worth it if you win a world series?
Im not over the top on this! But know what you are saying...Maybe im not making my self clear? As an older fan, I have seen this more then once, and am hopping it work's out, as for Grady...wouldnt bother me as much as this, he is a good player but not a gret one..imo.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
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This is why people are cynical... sign them now, then some will turn out to be good and be gone in 2011/2012 when we are under .500 at the all-star break... and the cycle of rebuilding continues.
Well the alternative is to stay with the status-quo, and pretty much guarantee that we'll be sub-500 and have everyone leaving the team come free-agency. At least with prospects coming in, there's a much better chance that things will pan out and we'll have a team like the 1995-1998 Indians, or 1997/2003 Marlins, or 2001 Diamondbacks, or 2002 Angels, or 2007 Rockies, or 2008 Rays ... you know, teams that decided to pack it in, suck for a couple of years while restocking their prospects and actually building a team that could get to a World Series.
Rockies? Rays? These teams are perennial losers. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, but to compare their situations to ours is absurd. The Rays had their first ever .500+ season last year. The Rockies have finished 2nd or better in their division exactly twice in their existence. The D'Backs have done exactly nothing since their WS title (which featured a $13 mil a year - one of the largest FA contracts of the time - 5 time Cy Young winner in Randy Johnson). The Angels are not a small market team.
Deep, the only reason Grady has not been traded is because he's signed through 2012. This team has always sold off or refused to re-sign its studs since you were in diapers. Martinez will be gone by Friday, and Sizemore will be gone in his FA year.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
You know what, I'm done with this. Some people just aren't going to get it. I'll leave you with this. You can't afford to keep up with the big market teams. All you can do is what you've done. There is no other alternative.
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