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We're the first organization ever to trade Cy Young winners in back to back years.
You know how I was a Yankees fan for awhile then came back? I'm really thinking about jumping ship again because this ownership SUCKS.
You are disgraceful.
you had a good run Hank.
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You know what, I'm done with this. Some people just aren't going to get it. I'll leave you with this. You can't afford to keep up with the big market teams. All you can do is what you've done. There is no other alternative.
Baseball is broken...period. They've destroyed the game I loved as a youth!!!
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It's not that we dont get what you are saying...It's just weve seen it for so long that it get's a lil upseting. It's been going on since Rocky!
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You get what I'm saying, but many don't. And Mutt, baseball isn't broken, but the MLB sure is. The only way for teams like the Indians and Reds to win is by doing what the Tribe have been doing.
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Legend
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You know what, I'm done with this. Some people just aren't going to get it. I'll leave you with this. You can't afford to keep up with the big market teams. All you can do is what you've done. There is no other alternative.
Baseball is broken...period. They've destroyed the game I loved as a youth!!!
I agree the model is broken....but it's the same model they have always used. going all the way back to when the Yankees bought Babe Ruth because the Red Sox were in financial trouble.
#gmstrong
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j/c...
For everyone that is crying about us trading away our good players - would you rather trade for prospects or would you rather let them go and get draft picks as compensation?
Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez and Jim Thome all left as free agents so we got nothing for them except a few draft picks...
Bartolo Colon, C.C. and Cliff Lee were traded for prospects...
Either way we were going to lose the players because we can't afford to sign them - that's life in a small market! Deal with it or go be a front-runner for some other team...
Also, how thrilled were you when we signed Jake Westbrook and Travis Hafner to long-term, $10 million+/yr contracts? I know it's not Westbrook's fault because of the injury, but that's a lot of money sitting on our team that could've been used to sign C.C. or Lee...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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i love the black/white area people try and create.
we want the dolans to spend money. so that automatically means we want to be like the yankees...
and that's where they are wrong.
i want the tribe to spend money, i want them to keep their players. part of that is the fault of mlb and the unfairness of the scale of big city teams vs small and mid teams. part of that is the dolans only caring about the bottom line.
the yankees, every year, throw out the fat bloated contracts at the top free agents. i don't want the tribe to do that, every once in a while i wouldn't mind seeing a splash, but i'd be happy seeing this team keep their own damn players
the remark about cleveland being a bandwagon town is laughable. they fill up cbs every single sunday despite not having a legitimate team in TWENTY years.
the tribe, despite the unfairness i mentioned, have drawn quite well over the past few years despite having some average teams, some bad teams, and one team good enough to make the playoffs.
people wanna compare what happened in the late 90's with everything else, little do they forget that things were different back then, there was no football team in town, the basketball team was pathetic. not to mention cleveland is a town of half a million.
there are more bandwagon fans in chicago, i see it everyday. white sox draw less than the indians, win the world series, and all the sox fans come out of the woodwork, and sell out the following year. my girlfriend and i have attended blackhawk games since the lockout, sometimes going to half-capacity. the hawks make some moves, get good, and now they are the top ticket in town. the cubs only sell out because it's a tourist trap. the bears sell out because it's a city of 4 million with a stadium of 60k 8 times a year. not hard to sell out. it is much more impressive to see cleveland pack 72k every sunday despite being smaller in population and horrible for 20 years.
i am not jumping ship, i am just choosing not to pour another cent into the indians until something changes. i'm tired of watching this team trade their players for prospects, and watching those prospects get dealt years down the line for more. this doesn't work. not in baseball. they are killing their own fanbase. i will continue to follow the team because i like the players and i like eric wedge, but i could care less for what the front office and ownership have done. it's a joke. it's laughable.
i won't be attending a game until it changes.
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Legend
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You know what, I'm done with this. Some people just aren't going to get it. I'll leave you with this. You can't afford to keep up with the big market teams. All you can do is what you've done. There is no other alternative.
I understand what you're trying to say. However you don't understand how the older members on this board feel. It's been a loooong time since the Indians won a world series and it's frustrating as hell to watch them constantly stink and get rid of the few players that make this team fun to watch. Who is to say these prospects will help us win a world series?
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1st String
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Everyone complaining about all the trades over the past two seasons.... please tell me how you would have kept...
Sabathia
Blake
Lee
Victor
Garko
Francisco
DeRosa
Betancourt
and whoever else we had....
You know whose fault this ultimately is... the players for not performing and I don't want to hear well its Shapiro and Wedge's fault for assembling the team tha way....
Look at our ALCS team from a few years ago...
it was the same team that did terrible last year and its the same team that terrible this year without Sabathia and Blake.
We go out and get DeRosa and Wood to sure up areas of need and look what happens... the team goes in the gutter again and DeRosa is forced to be traded and we can't get the ball into Woods hand (as scary as that is sometimes)
Lee and Martinez have done their part this year and I applaud them for that, but being a small market team.... who is going to want to take the weak parts (our entire bullpen, barfield, shoppach, back end of the rotation) from our team? Therefore, management has to bite the bullet and trade off the strong parts of the team to get a large number of prospects hopefully capable of taking a roster spot from the weak players on our team. If they succeed we can either trade the weak parts for low-end minor leaguers in hopes of finding a gem or designate them for assignment.
Of course the Red Sox and Yankees won't have to trade their stars because for one they are always in the race and two they have the dollar figures! It's what is wrong with baseball. The Red Sox have done a greatjob building their system from within, but their fans don't have to worry about losing Youk, Pedroia, or any others during the trade deadline because their club can always afford to pay these players no matter how good they became and no matter how demanding they get.
Everyone needs to chill and understand that this is the way things work in Cleveland now. It's not the mid/late 90's anymore. We had success in building our system with Ramirez, Belle, Lofton, Thome, Alomar, and others.
4 years from now we may be competing for the World Series with players like LaPorta, Brantley, Santana, Weglarz, Knapp, Carrasco, Sizemore, Chisenhall, White, etc.... then this will all be long forgotten until those players then have to go as well for the fact that everyone's contract will be up around the same time and their salaries jump from $450,000 to 10,000,000. It's impossible to keep them all.
Also... our beloved Grady Sizemore might be traded as well if we don't turn this ship around within the next three years... He is the only player on the team right now that we will have to actually pay some money to keep besides maybe Choo within the coming years...... will we do it? Yes, if we win
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All Pro
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even in the dark shadow that was '91, we were laying the foundation. you could argue that even in '93 we didn't do too bad--76-86 is just below .500....we had some good players even pre-94. The season could've been 85-77 had those pitchers not died or something along those lines and we might have gotten in the playoffs.
Go Browns!
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You know what, I'm done with this. Some people just aren't going to get it. I'll leave you with this. You can't afford to keep up with the big market teams. All you can do is what you've done. There is no other alternative.
There's nothing to get. You're chastising Indians fans for being upset that their mediocre team has been less mediocre than your mediocre Reds team.
There is an alternative. That alternative is when you're in the driver's seat in a trade scenario, don't let the other team walk away the winner. We're the team trading the reigning Cy Young winner with a year left on his deal (for peanuts, in baseball salary terms, I might add) to a team that is trying to pick up another starter to make the playoff push, and we let them walk all over us.
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Either way we were going to lose the players because we can't afford to sign them - that's life in a small market! Deal with it or go be a front-runner for some other team...
I dont think you understand what im getting at?.....I know we were gonna lose those player's, But why not get the best we can for them? Drabeck was there no? We had nothing to lose by holding our groud No? Just a question to you.
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Legend
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It's not that we dont get what you are saying...It's just weve seen it for so long that it get's a lil upseting. It's been going on since Rocky!
Amen. A lot of us grew up with the terrible abominations that were the Tribe's teams in the 70's & 80's... only the Cavs were more of a joke back then.
We still tuned in our fancy portable transistor radios and listened in, and watched when we could.... but the games were FAR from sold out.
The great run of the 90's was the abberration. Dick Jacobs took the team to the promised land and we were one out from having Glory delivered. He sold it and it has been a steady progression back to where he took us from ever since.... and a lot of us are tired of it. Give me something worth paying attention to, and I'll pay attention.
The ownership has zero grounds to say that they will spend for a better product once more people start paying for it.
It is his purpose for existing to put out a quality product, and if he does, he will be rewarded with droves of people wanting to be a part of it. If he puts out a crappy product, then people will leave him behind, and deservedly so.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You know what, I'm done with this. Some people just aren't going to get it. I'll leave you with this. You can't afford to keep up with the big market teams. All you can do is what you've done. There is no other alternative.
Baseball is broken...period. They've destroyed the game I loved as a youth!!!
I agree the model is broken....but it's the same model they have always used. going all the way back to when the Yankees bought Babe Ruth because the Red Sox were in financial trouble.
Agreed...greed has crept into everything not exclusively baseball.
We really need a new commisioner who is anchored in the past traditions
but a solid eye for the future. Selig is just horrible! How an organization allows an owner to oversee the league is a mystery!
Now, ask me who can lead MLB into the future...don't know.
I liked the Costas idea. I like Steve Lyons also. What I do know...no attorney,
no owner or former owner. I'm looking for a guy who undeniably loves the game and would have only it's best interest at heart. A guy that the game has given him something and he's looking to give back to the game and it's fans!
Kinda fun discussion starter...who to lead MLB!
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Kinda fun discussion starter...who to lead MLB!
How about Pete Rose?... 
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i don't think this model has always been like this.
a lot of things changed when the yankees created the yes network (which basically funds their payroll) and the red sox answered with nesn.
that's how those teams fund. they can do whatever they want because they have their own network with millions of people who will watch because their team is always loaded.
it's unfair.
God bless the NFL. there may be an uncapped year, but the NFL would never allow teams to have their own networks to broadcast games. that is why an uncapped year doesn't scare me that much.
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I don't know why they didn't get Drabek. I also don't know why it's such a big deal whether he was in there or not.
Carrasco was their #1 prospect last year and had a 1.72 ERA in 6 games at AAA last year even though he's not doing quite as well this year.
Knapp is a 19 year old pitcher who's 6'5" and throws 97-mph.
As others have said, Donald and Marson played for Team USA last year so they can't be too bad...
How many people heard of Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips when we got them for Bartolo Colon?
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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Kinda fun discussion starter...who to lead MLB!
How about Pete Rose?...
Honestly? The guy should be immediately reinstated! He's missed countless years of HOF membership. If there was a harder worker in MLB you'd need to point him out! His betting (never affected field play) IMO did less to give the game a black eye than the steroid era which I pin on Buddy boy for the most part!
Bob Feller would be pleased also!
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Talk has begun on reinsttaing Pete Rose... i'd be for it.
Guys: As an expos fan I am well-acquaintedn wih small-mareket doldrums. In 1994, we had the ebst record in baseball in August and led the division by six games when the strike wiped out the season. The next year... we had a spring training fire sale.
The strike cost us lord knows how much money the Expos would have made from the pennant race and what looked like a playoff run. It forced us to sell off our talent, and that started a chain-reaction that did not cease until they moved to Washington after 2004.
Baseball has always had its haves and haven-nots, but the gap is so much wider now...
from 1980 until 1990, every MLB team won at least one divison title (except for the tribe), back when it was a lot harder to do.
Now teams are stuck in a losing rut, and many can't get out of it. Baseball needs fixing, but no one has the balls to do it.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I think it's a big fallacy to believe that Jacobs really paid for the great Tribe teams of the 90's. He sort of walked into a perfect storm. We had terrible teams from the 80's and early '90s which allowed the team to build through the draft as well as trade guys like Joe Carter for good prospects in Alomar and Baerga. He also was fortunate enough to get tax payers to fund a brand new stadium, and had the fortune of Art Modell stealing the Browns and making the Tribe the default #1 team in the city. So he had a low payroll team of up-and-comers, with a brand-new stadium, and fans itching to support a home team. Fans flocked to the games, and generated the income for him. By the time he needed to pay for Free Agents or keep current players, the money was already there for him.
It is nowhere near what fans expect Dolan to do these days ... which is to charge $40 million in credit on free agents and hope/pray that it attracts fans, wins games and that the guys don't turn into Adrian Beltre clones.
Speaking of which, look at the Mariners as a team that tried to spend money it didn't have on Free Agents (Sexson, Beltre, etc) in hopes that it would automatically win games. They haven't been to the playoffs since.
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Why are U even in here?
Just because U want to belove a loser team doesn't mean fans with a brain want to belove a team run into a sewer.
Don't even try to council anyone and tell them what a fan is..stupid is something I leave for people who don't use logic..and the Pirates/Indians are not what a fan wants to root for..they're a joke of organizations .. 
Wow dude, classy.
Why am I even in here? Umm - the team I root for has pretty much come to epitomize the trade deadline I guess that's why. And my team also made a trade earlier in the day and now has reportedly dealt Sanchez - didn't know the thread was titled "MLB Trade Deadline: INDIANS ONLY."
I also don't want to "belove" a loser. It sucks and has sucked since late 1992. I guess you didn't understand that I was saying I like what's going on in Pittsburgh right now - tear it down - all the way down and build up like should have been done countless times over the years instead of throwing together a bunch of end of the road vets and hoping for one year of +500 baseball.
Finally, I'm not trying to preach to anyone what a fan is - just throwing out my opinion of what it means. Ammo doesn't fit that bill as a Tribe fan in my opinion so why even get worked up about it? Just go watch the Yankees as he said they were his team before the Tribe. Not a real big deal.
Stay classy, Columbus.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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I don't know why they didn't get Drabek. I also don't know why it's such a big deal whether he was in there or not.
Carrasco was their #1 prospect last year and had a 1.72 ERA in 6 games at AAA last year even though he's not doing quite as well this year.
Knapp is a 19 year old pitcher who's 6'5" and throws 97-mph.
As others have said, Donald and Marson played for Team USA last year so they can't be too bad...
How many people heard of Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips when we got them for Bartolo Colon?
Good,... -- no,... -- GREAT point !! 
Hate to give up Lee, but here's to the Phillies winning 2 in a row,....I like the Howard kid.
Baseball is blown,..started with Curt Flood. Then, it's like those firebombs rolling down the hill on "Troy."
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Good points Excl., Plus, the whole spend money now thing is a complete load of crap. Given Cleveland's market size, they're actually overspending. They entered the 09' season with the #14 payroll in baseball at 81+ million. Only 1 million dollars less then the Giants, who play in a market that dwarfs Cleveland.  The bottom line is that it hasn't worked. It was never about spending money, it was about the team underachieving. A team can get stagnate, which the Indians have been the last 2 seasons. Instead of sit on their hands (Dolan and Shapiro) decided to cut some of their losses and obtain some good young talent. I'm trying to figure out how some people perceive this as stupid? Unless some of the fans would prefer we wallow in mediocrity while getting older and less talented? What's the old saying? "What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right." I think the Indians have made some good choices in deciding to tear parts of this team down. It might set us back in the short run but I just don't see how we were set up to be successful in the long term given how these past 2 years have played out. Our farm system is significantly better while our team isn't really significantly worse. We were bad with some of these guys, so I don't see why it matters if we'll be bad without them? At least getting a collection of young prospects gives us a chance to be good in the future (which sitting around and watching this current team flounder would not).
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i love the black/white area people try and create.
we want the dolans to spend money. so that automatically means we want to be like the yankees...
and that's where they are wrong.
i want the tribe to spend money, i want them to keep their players. part of that is the fault of mlb and the unfairness of the scale of big city teams vs small and mid teams. part of that is the dolans only caring about the bottom line.
the yankees, every year, throw out the fat bloated contracts at the top free agents. i don't want the tribe to do that, every once in a while i wouldn't mind seeing a splash, but i'd be happy seeing this team keep their own damn players
the remark about cleveland being a bandwagon town is laughable. they fill up cbs every single sunday despite not having a legitimate team in TWENTY years.
the tribe, despite the unfairness i mentioned, have drawn quite well over the past few years despite having some average teams, some bad teams, and one team good enough to make the playoffs.
people wanna compare what happened in the late 90's with everything else, little do they forget that things were different back then, there was no football team in town, the basketball team was pathetic. not to mention cleveland is a town of half a million.
there are more bandwagon fans in chicago, i see it everyday. white sox draw less than the indians, win the world series, and all the sox fans come out of the woodwork, and sell out the following year. my girlfriend and i have attended blackhawk games since the lockout, sometimes going to half-capacity. the hawks make some moves, get good, and now they are the top ticket in town. the cubs only sell out because it's a tourist trap. the bears sell out because it's a city of 4 million with a stadium of 60k 8 times a year. not hard to sell out. it is much more impressive to see cleveland pack 72k every sunday despite being smaller in population and horrible for 20 years.
i am not jumping ship, i am just choosing not to pour another cent into the indians until something changes. i'm tired of watching this team trade their players for prospects, and watching those prospects get dealt years down the line for more. this doesn't work. not in baseball. they are killing their own fanbase. i will continue to follow the team because i like the players and i like eric wedge, but i could care less for what the front office and ownership have done. it's a joke. it's laughable.
i won't be attending a game until it changes.
Couple points.....I think you and I are on very close sides, we just choose to look at it differently.
I think we can blame MLB and the Dolans. The Dolans tried....they signed Hafner/Sizemore/Peralta and extended CC a while back and it bite them hard. So I wouldn't expect them to be jumping at the idea to overspend for CC and Lee (so we got what we could and moved on).
Lee was leaving, we all know that. He even said so much, he was taking the best offer he can get. We can't afford to risk a gigantic contract on a guy that was fighting through control issues in the minors as early as two years ago. He may be a one-hit wonder....and may be great for years to come. A small market team can't make that wager. That's MLB's fault.
Most of the people angry in this thread are bashing the Tribe owner and GM.....it's baseball that puts them in this situation. If they do extend players and they tank, it haunts the team for years (Hafner).
And I was the one that mentioned Cleveland being a front-runner town (except the Browns). The Cavs and Indians draw nothing when they're losing and draw gangbusters when they're winning. The Browns, they sell out no matter what (as we know all too well).
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'm sorry Nas, but that sounds like the same old crap with the same result -- no World Series Championship since 1948,....when the money DIDN'T matter. I am not saying you're incorrect--just saying that's the way baseball is, and it is a complete astronomical abberation.
I would have liked to have seen Cliff Lee "grow old" as you called it,...assuming he would have been good for another 5-7 seven years. With a salary cap and/or a flat rate pay scale, baseball could be fun again.
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My take....
I was not against trading Lee as there is NO WAY he would have signed with the Indians in 2011. My thing with this trade is that we did not get either their best position nor best pitching prospect! You traded away a Cy Young winner having another great year (look at his ERA) and you get three guys coming off the disabled list? WOW....why not wait a few days?
Last edited by Referee2; 07/30/09 06:14 AM.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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And I was the one that mentioned Cleveland being a front-runner town (except the Browns). The Cavs and Indians draw nothing when they're losing and draw gangbusters when they're winning. The Browns, they sell out no matter what (as we know all too well).
the indians haven't sold out since that streak ended, but they've had decent attendance for a smaller market.
the cavs didn't draw anything, but again, small market combined with nba tickets being extremely expensive.
i'll be the first to admit that between the price years and the lebron years, i maybe went to 2 games, didn't mean that i didn't follow them.
every city has casual fans. every town has bandwagon fans, you know damn well chicago fans are just as bad and are arguably worse.
i think the thing with the cavs is that lebron has generated interest. the cavs weren't immediately good when lebronw as drafted, and you can argue it took until mike brown's second year, but again, they drew well, and now despite taking a dump in the playoffs, it seems as if they are anticipating a season wide sell out.
i think the thing that makes me mad the most with the dolans and the tribe is these garbage 1-2 year deals where players come to prove themselves and audition for another team's big contract. i can't stand that.
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I really hope EVERY fan boycotts the current ownership. If you have tickets, don't go to the game, don't support the dolan ownership in any way. I shudder to think what the hell the rotation is going to be like next year........ Oh, I just remember pavano is currently our number 1 starter. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
I really hope EVERY fan boycotts the current ownership. If you have tickets, don't go to the game, don't support the dolan ownership in any way.
Yeah ... that should help them spend money. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
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So we get 4 of a teams top 10 prospects and it was simply a "salary dump"? 3 of which were already in AAA and the lone single A prospect being a 6'5'' pitcher who tops out near 100 MPH? What do you think we should have got? Jimmy Rollins? Not saying that Dolan is a GREAT owner but he takes way too much flack. Can someone explain to me why we SHOULDN'T be dumping salaries right now? We stink, the team has horrible attendance, our farm system isn't that strong and the player(s) we traded weren't in our long terms plans (Francisco) or weren't going to resign with us (Lee). I fail to see why this even matters that they were traded? Or how it severely handicaps a team that could end this week 20 games under .500.
Last edited by Referee2; 07/30/09 06:18 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
I don't get it either Nas ... I think some people just want us to hold on to our "name" players even if we can't play remotely close to .500 ball ... give them monsterous contracts when Free Agency comes up ... and then hope they somehow get sprinkled with magic fairy dust, and we don't continue with the mediocrity we are currently seeing. We can't get good prospects unless we trade something of value ... we can't hand out monsterous free agent deals like the Sox and Yankees can (unless people are already selling out games) ... What exactly is the Tribe supposed to do?? ... and your answer can't use the phrase "look at the Red Sox/Yankees".
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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j/c
Some of you guys are being babies. What part of 42-59 do you not understand? Cliff Lee obviously wasn't helping you to a championship this year, and it is obvious that with your current team, you aren't going places. But with these prospects, you have a chance to make a run in a few years. You got some great prospects for someone whose contract is up in two years, before you have a chance to make a run.
You complain about not every winning. You almost won a world series two years ago. I, as a Reds fan, don't ever remember my team even making the playoffs. I, as a Browns fan, vaguely remember my team making the playoffs once. Yet, you complain that the Indians suck.
You are being irrational bandwagon riders who threaten to withdraw their support or even switch teams. Never have I been more ashamed of my fellow Browns fans who are supposed to be known for their loyalty.
Again, this is not directed at everyone.
I don't want you to take offense to this, but you have no clue what you're talking about.
You are not a true Cleveland Fan.
You don't root for the Browns, the Cavs and the Indians. All Cleveland sports. I see your Reds pic.
I've rooted for these teams my ENTIRE LIFE.
And it's the same crap every year. "There's always next year." Bullcrap!
Look at my sig. I am so tired of it. It's always, oh we're building for the future. You know how many times we've heard that, and STILL haven't seen a championship???
We were an out away from winning the World Series 2 seasons ago. We had the Sox 3 games to 1, and more than probable would have beaten the Rockies. We made a great run last year after a bad start, and end up with the best record in baseball the second half. And we trade away these guys.We tore it all down when we were that close. The window of opportunity was there, but we missed it. Who knows when it will open again.
We traded these guys? And Victor probably is next?
For what???????
Prospects. Prospects that we have NO IDEA whether or not they can play in the majors. Some of these prospects are single freaking A and don't even look impressive. For Christ's sake, you just traded a Cy Young, All Star pitcher. At least give me a solid AAA prospect or someone who has suited up in the freaking bigs.
We just traded away Betancourt, Francisco, Garko, and Lee the last week, and haven't gotten a single player who has ever played in the majors.
I understand we aren't playing well and we aren't going to win this year, but give me SOMEONE who can help us next year. They way it looks now, we may not have enough big league players to fill the damn roster. It's a joke. I want someone who can help us soon. Like ASAP/
Not MAYBE can help us in 2 or 3 years. That is complete horse crap.
I will never stop rooting for my teams, but they sure lost fans today other than me. That park will be empty. They are digging their own graves.
You're younger than a lot here. I am younger than a lot as well, but even I have endured a lot in Cleveland sports through my 32 years. I basically lost a team to watch for the next 2 or 3 years, because I'm not watching 162 games of minor league baseball. I can drive 20 minutes to watch the Scrappers for less money, why would I watch another minor league team an hour+ away for $60-100?
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 292
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 292 |
j/c
I have read many good, logical comments for and against the current Tribe situation here. But for me, this is an emotional argument. I'm afraid that logic gets in the way. I became an Indians fan when I was 6 years old. I received an Indians uniform for that birthday from a girl whose dad owned a sporting goods store. That was 51 years ago and I still have a picture of me in that uni on my fridge.
As a teenager, I would hitchhike or take the bus to 30 or more Indians games every year. I was at Eck's no hitter and consider that to be the best moment of my sports viewing life.
I've been to Arizona in the early 90's when the Tribe was spring training in Tucson, to Winter Haven, and to Goodyear this last March. I took vacation days in '95 for the World Series games and flew to Cleveland for game 7 of the '97 World Series.
Mine is a love affair with a team. I am not about to abandon them, even after another slap in the face by the organization. But it hurts deep in my gut to see them dismantle this team, with little or no hope of contending for at least a couple more years. I'm emotionally spent...again.
What's a Tribe fan to do?
[color:"red"]"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
---Leonardo daVinci
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
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j/c Quote:
The Indians have done extensive studies of deals like this and found that teams which concentrate on "big league-ready" prospects as the centerpieces of these trades often make out the worst. Cleveland aims for upside -- and it ranked 18-year-old smokeballer Jason Knapp as having the highest ceiling of any arm in the Phillies' system, including Drabek's.
One scout we surveyed Wednesday compared Knapp to a young Jonathan Papelbon. Another said: "If his medicals check out, they may have gotten a young Roy Halladay."
Meanwhile, Baseball America ranked the other three players in the deal -- right-hander Carlos Carrasco, catcher Lou Marson and shortstop Jason Donald -- as the Nos. 2, 3 and 4 best prospects in the Phillies' system entering the season.
"Carrasco is a power arm with three plus pitches, and he's 22 years old," said one scout who covers the Phillies system. "I think Donald will be a very good player. I know some people think he'll have to change positions. But I still wouldn't rule out shortstop. My comparison for him has always been Rich Aurilia, a guy you look at from afar and say, 'He's not a shortstop.' Then you watch him play and say, 'Yeah, he is.' I see him as a guy who can hit 20 homers, hit .275 or .280, and play real good shortstop.
"And I really like Marson. I think he'll be a good player and a regular catcher in the big leagues. And what is he -- 23 years old? So I think both sides did well. Just because the Phillies have a good big league club and didn't fast-track these guys to the big leagues doesn't mean they're not good players. I think they are."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4364642
Eat it Phil...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
For what???????
Prospects. Prospects that we have NO IDEA whether or not they can play in the majors. Some of these prospects are single freaking A and don't even look impressive. For Christ's sake, you just traded a Cy Young, All Star pitcher. At least give me a solid AAA prospect or someone who has suited up in the freaking bigs.
If I'm not mistaken, only one is a single A prospect...and he's 18.
And if you're going to tell someone that they don't have a clue...what can you tell me about the prospects we received? Or is your reaction knee-jerk?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Yeah, I suppose it just struck an emotional chord with some? Who knows....but people need to take a step back and look at the big picture. What I find somewhat funny in regard to the "spend money" crowd is that the worst move we've made in the last few years was actually resigning one of our players to a big extension (Hafner). Now, I'm not advocating letting everyone walk but spending money just to spend money isn't going to guarantee anything. It's not the cure all that some are trying to make it out to be. The Indians had the highest payroll, out of all the small market teams, entering the 2009 season. Where did that get us? Plus, as both you and I have said, we have spent money when we thought we had a contender, so why can't we cut salary when we know we don't?  Isn't that just being smart? i.e. shedding salary when revenue is down? Instead it's being called stupid, cheap, desperate, etc, etc, etc. Who would have thought.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
You get what I'm saying, but many don't. And Mutt, baseball isn't broken, but the MLB sure is. The only way for teams like the Indians and Reds to win is by doing what the Tribe have been doing.
No, I get what you're saying but I don't like your condescending attitude. You have a tendency to talk down to people.
We've been through this before and I don't think we're going to get anywhere doing the same crap over and over.
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