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I like you, man, but right now YOU don't know what you're talking about. Marson has played in the majors and is considered by some to be the best catching prospect out there. Knapp, a 19-year-old, who throws over 97, is the only one not in AAA. Odds are, the other three will all be in the majors next year. You clearly don't know much about the guys you got and are speaking with your heart, not your mind.
As far not being a Cleveland fan, you're right. I'm a huge Browns fan, a casual Cavs fan, and a Reds fan. Two out of three. But I follow the Tribe closer than 90% of Indians fans out there. I read all the articles, I read all the threads, I watch them when they're on and the Reds aren't, and I follow their stats. I doubt many out there do all of that, so quite frankly, I take offense to you saying I don't know what I'm talking about, as I clearly know more about the prospects than you.
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Maybe I do have a condescending attitude when I get frustrated with people. I see that as something to improve on, but I don't see many people on here "getting it". I see people renouncing their fanship and ripping their team for making a good move. I really need to stop posting in this thread. I don't like the way I'm coming across.
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Quote:
Maybe I do have a condescending attitude when I get frustrated with people. I see that as something to improve on, but I don't see many people on here "getting it". I see people renouncing their fanship and ripping their team for making a good move. I really need to stop posting in this thread. I don't like the way I'm coming across.
My point is it's not a good move when we gave up solid players for guys who aren't MLB ready.
Matt LaPorta isn't playing up here yet, neither is Brantley. They were part of the CC deal.
We got significantly less in return for Cliff Lee, a guy with a whole year left on his contract. That's pathetic to me. I understood the CC deal last year, I don't understand this one.
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I do. He was gone after next year. The Tribe aren't doing well, and they need to build for the next few years as they aren't going to have success in the mean time. They're building up a solid base to make a run the next few years, and quite frankly, they're doing this the right way. I know I might get ripped on this, but the way they're doing it is almost Patriots reminiscent. They aren't giving their guys big contracts but are instead trading them for young talent to help them in the future. If the Indians were in contention, yes, I would understand the frustration, but as it is now, it makes sense.
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For what???????
Prospects. Prospects that we have NO IDEA whether or not they can play in the majors. Some of these prospects are single freaking A and don't even look impressive. For Christ's sake, you just traded a Cy Young, All Star pitcher. At least give me a solid AAA prospect or someone who has suited up in the freaking bigs.
If I'm not mistaken, only one is a single A prospect...and he's 18.
And if you're going to tell someone that they don't have a clue...what can you tell me about the prospects we received? Or is your reaction knee-jerk?
Today we got 1. We got another for Garko. But a single A prospect with a 6-9 record and a 5+ ERA doesn't impress me. He was supposed to be one of their better pitching prospects, but has been less than stellar this year. Shapiro said he expects him to eventually be a middle rotation kind of guy.
Not even a top end starter.
And when I said he had no clue, I meant he had no clue about being a die hard Cleveland fan, watching the Browns leave, watching the Indians empty out and send away the Colons, the Sabathias, Lees, losing guys like Manny and Thome. And there's people who've been around longer to me to see the heartaches we have. I don't want him to take offense to it. It's something he can't see from his prospective fully.
I understand DT's point of not winning this year, and trying to build up for the future. But don't give me guys who we truly have no idea if they'll help out of not. And they may not help for 2 or 3 years. 2 of the guys have injuries, one is a pitcher with shoulder problems. Bursitis I think. Which could go away and be fine, or could be problemsome. Who knows.
I just think for a guy who just won the Cy Young, you would at least get some of their better prospects. There's guys in that organization with higher potential than these guys. And of all these guys we've traded, we haven't gotten a single guy who has played in the majors. You can say we're going to contend in the future, but there's no certainty in it.
Marte was one of our better guys in the minors, and didn't do squat when called up. Francisco tore it up, and was average at best. Sure, we have tons of prospects, but can we be sure they'll pan out? No.
Which means we could witness the script for Major League 4 unfolding.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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they're doing this the right way.
How do you know this for certain?
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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It's worked well for the Marlins, and quite frankly, there is no other way for them to do it.
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Maybe I do have a condescending attitude when I get frustrated with people. I see that as something to improve on, but I don't see many people on here "getting it". I see people renouncing their fanship and ripping their team for making a good move. I really need to stop posting in this thread. I don't like the way I'm coming across.
Regardless of whether or not you think people "get it" does not mean that you have any right to talk down to anyone. We all know how seriously you take your scouting and your understanding of sports, but that doesn't put you above anyone else here.
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I don't argue with that, and totally agree. I don't mean to come off in that light, and apologize for it. It is unacceptable.
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they're doing this the right way.
How do you know this for certain?
The right way? Maybe trading for prospects but not in the handling of them!
They bring Marte up, having an awesome season playing full time at 3rd base. What's Wedge do? "Nah, play him at first and he doesn't need to play every day". What! I'd heard Wedge say a million times throughout the last 2 seasons that Marte does not seem comfortable! So you bring him up now, play him out of the position he's thrived in all season?
LaPorta had a real chance early on playing a night then off 2 or 3? C'mon!!
It's audition time Eric!!! Put them in and let them show you what they have over a period of time.
Heck, bring the whole AAA pitching staff up. I just heard Shapiro state that Carmona was returning and he'd most likely be the #1!!!! Guy has gone Rick Ankiel on us!!!
Wedge has next year left and Dolan won't pay him to sit at home. If a change is made it will come in 2011.
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I said not to take offense to it in case you misinterpreted me. I don't mean you don't know what you're talking about as far as the players go. What I'm saying is, you aren't a die hard like I am. We both bleed Brown and Orange, but you root for the Reds. And like you said, just casually like the Cavs. You're half my age, which means you have witnessed only half the heartache I have, if that since you aren't a Tribe fan. And I have witnessed at 32 probably only half of the heartache others on this board have. So saying some people on here are being babies about it I think is something you can't fully understand. You couldn't from your perspective, which isn't your fault at all. You haven't seen it. You haven't felt it. You haven't been there, which isn't your fault. You can't be older than you are.  You can read some of my response to Phil and see some of what I meant. As Cleveland fans, we've seen this all before. We got some prospects who may be able to help, but we can't guarantee that. The Phillies had other guys we could have gotten for a Cy Young winner. This is just frustration coming out. I'm tired of the ''next year" approach we always get. Like I said, I hope you didn't get offended by what I said. You may see some of the stuff we have seen, but you haven't felt it.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Today we got 1. We got another for Garko. But a single A prospect with a 6-9 record and a 5+ ERA doesn't impress me.\
First of all, there is no more laughable stat in baseball than a W-L record of a pitcher. Second, Carrasco is in AAA. Now with that said:
Carlos Carrasco has some of the better K numbers around. He's got a 92 MPH fastball and the best change up in our system. He's a power arm that will not pitch to contact, but rather attacking hitters. Carrasco this year is averaging 8.8 K/9 and 3 BB/9, resulting in 2.95 BB/K ratio, which many will tell you, is quite good. He has a decent WHIP, 1.360 and has a .262 BAA...now, may seem rather high, however it looks to me that while he has electric stuff, he also has good command to go with it.
Jason Knapp, however, is the real jewel of this crown. Instead of telling you what he has done this year, I'm just going to give you his career averages, since he's only pitched 116 innings so far.
In those innings, he averages 11.5 K/9 and 3.9 BB/9, resulting in a pretty good 2.92 SO/BB average. However, the real sweetness is that he has a 1.203 WHIP, which means that he does not give up a lot of hits, as his 0.3 HR/9 will indicate. His fastball tops at 100 and he is developing a change and a slider. In short, he's the best power arm we've had since CC.
That's not to say that Knapp will develop, far from it, but those peripherals are some of the most impressive I've seen. 149 K's in 116 innings is just...it's unbelievable, and the fact that he's so young enhances and can make a quick rise makes him a very attractive prospect. He is the guy to watch, because if he develops, he's the ace of the staff...unfortunately, it'll take at bare minimum, about 2 years to develop.
Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 07/29/09 09:46 PM.
you had a good run Hank.
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This is pretty much my feeling as well.
I also want to lay out there that I'm neither of the "we shouldn't have traded Cliff Lee" nor the "we need to spend tons" mindsets. I would love to see Lee stay with the Indians, but I knew that it was a long shot.
Where my beef with this trade lies is in the fact that we did not get anyone from Philly who will be able to step in and contribute from the get-go next year. I don't care how hard he throws, an 18-year-old kid who can't go more than 5 games in Single-A without needing to rest his hurt shoulder is not going to help us next year. A shortstop when we already have a very good shortstep in Cabrera is not going to help us. A 6-9 record with a 5+ ERA is hardly impressive, and another reliever who isn't ready for the big time is the last thing this organization needs. And we already have a catching prospect who's been in our system in Santana. In short, none of these guys are going to contribute anything in the near future. Cliff Lee is one of the best pitchers in the AL, and still has another year on his deal. That's serious leverage, and we didn't use it in the least.
Why isn't LaPorta being used at all? When they traded for him he was touted as a guy who could've possibly come out of AAA at the end of last year, and he's barely been able to sniff a spot in the year when he was expected to make the active roster.
The problem isn't that we have to make trades. The problem is that what we trade for isn't doing anything for the team.
That and we have 8-figure salaries in guys that aren't even playing.
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I don't know what to make of Dolan. - On one hand, I see the way he gave Sizemore, Peralta, Hafner, and Carmona a couple years to develop, liked what he saw and gave them good deals. - I think this is this right way to run a team. Unfortunately for us all, Sizemore was the only one that panned out. - Not Dolan's fault.
On the other hand, I look at how great this team looked when Dolan inherited it, and how terrible it looks now. - He is the owner after all.
Bottom line in all this - The lack of a salary cap in baseball means that owners and general managers of middle and small market teams have a very small margin for error when judging talent.
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Legend
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Not saying that Dolan is a GREAT owner but he takes way too much flack. Can someone explain to me why we SHOULDN'T be dumping salaries right now?
nobody would be jumping out of their seat at this allleged salary dump if they knew the dolans would add salary next year.
is there a person on this board, or anywhere, that thinks the indians are going to add anything next year to show that they care about 2010?
giving up lee, and probably martinez shows that they don't care about 2010. the tribe just threw the towel in on 2010, 2011, and who knows, maybe even 2012.
and for everyone who keeps saying "well the marlins are doing it well, it's working for them" realize the marlins did spend a little bit of money with both titles, and actually quite a bit on the team that beat the tribe.
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On the other hand, I look at how great this team looked when Dolan inherited it, and how terrible it looks now. - He is the owner after all.
WHOA NELLY!
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=2001&t=CLE
2001 team ^
Now, let's see here, CC stayed on, Bartolo got traded...Alomar got traded, and subsequently fell off, and Thome rejected a contract offer. Fryman was on the verge of retiring, Juan Gonzalez left after an MVP season got hurt and never was the same, leaving Omar and...um...CC
Other than that...what was so great about that team, considering Hart gutted the minors for one last WS push?
Make no mistake, the Dolans inherited a hell hole, and Jacobs knew to get the hell out.
you had a good run Hank.
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NRTU
You know something is wrong with baseball when a team has to trade two Cy Young winners one year after winning the award. Considering that if baseball had a fair salary cap system we would have been a Dynasty over the past 15 years, This is why I'm starting to hate MLB and why I haven't watch a whole game all year when I used to watch all their games.
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Lee was never staying in cleveland.IMO, Plus who knows how he'll do long term. He could collapse. I always wondered when the wheels would fall off w/him....I thought that when he was with the tribe and still do. While I love baseball, and follow the tribe.........they are not the same as the Browns to me. Still while I want the tribe to win, I can live w/whatever. Sunshine, smell of the field, beer, the sounds of bat and glove......batter vs hitter........Any one game can give me that. One of the reasons I like baseball as a sport more than any other. So I can live with this trade. Young exciting prospects are the drug of baseball. All the prospect where in the top 10 of that system.
Who would the Phillies have thrown in? They are trying to get to the world series again. Why would they trade ANYONE who would help them (or us) right away? Any player ready for the bigs next year is someone a world champion contender MUST keep on the team. Also throw in the idea that since we didn't do any other trade.........none were there, or they were not as good. What I'm trying to say is no other team but the Phillies valued Lee that much.........maybe the Indians got the better deal.
I liked the Indians back in the Muni days....and always will. Someone brought up Major league. I went to Indians games then. I ran around as much as I watched baseball, but still loverd being there I went to that fake game before a game to get filmed. Most people I'd ever seen at a game back then. Baseball has been the way it is for a long time. Yankees have always sucked in paying more, and messing up salary for every other team. Just the way it is.
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They are trying to get to the world series again. Why would they trade ANYONE who would help them (or us) right away? Any player ready for the bigs next year is someone a world champion contender MUST keep on the team.
This makes no sense whatsoever. So you're saying that because the Phillies are trying to make a push for the championship, then they shouldn't have to give up pieces of value in order to obtain a piece of value?
People can carry on all they want about how these guys are the Phillies' best prospects or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that they are all unproven, unknown commodities, none of them will contribute anything this year and its unlikely that none of them will contribute anything next year, either. And in exchange for that the Phillies get a pitcher who is one of the best in the business. So for the next 18 months, while these prospects are slogging it out in Akron and Columbus and Lake County, Cliff Lee will be on the mound in Philadelphia winning games at the big league level. And we're supposed to be excited that maybe, just maybe, these questions marks can help us make a playoff push in 2011?
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My point is it's not a good move when we gave up solid players for guys who aren't MLB ready.
Matt LaPorta isn't playing up here yet, neither is Brantley. They were part of the CC deal.
We got significantly less in return for Cliff Lee, a guy with a whole year left on his contract. That's pathetic to me. I understood the CC deal last year, I don't understand this one.
I think we could've got more for Lee too since he has the option year left on his contract, but if we would've just let him or C.C. go and sign somewhere else all we would've got was a few draft picks and we all know how great our drafts have been. By trading them and prospects, we get guys that are already further along in the process and closer to helping the major league team...
I know we didn't get MLB ready guys like the guy we got in the Colon trade (Lee Stevens  ), but we should be better off in the future for it...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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Was over on theclevelandfan boards and it's been brought to my attention someone has been having fun with the wikipedia entry under Larry Dolan. Things like, "As of July 2009, he has become the most hated man in Cleveland next to Art Modell." Wikipedia must have fixed that one, but the one now is almost as good, it says: Quote:
Larry Dolan has made the Cleveland Indians the first MLB franchise to trade the reigning Cy Young Award winner in back-to-back seasons, causing the once proud "Jacobs Field" to resemble its' empty, echoing predecessor, Municipal Stadium.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Legend
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The funniest one on there was about his nephew. I gues bad management is genetics  "His nephew James Dolan owns the New York Knicks of the NBA and the New York Rangers of the NHL. Neither him, nor his nephew, know how to run a professional sports team properly, and should both sell them before its too late."
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Legend
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and you wonder why I call you "Whammo"  *Standing up in my chair* I was born a Tribe fan" I have spent my entire life as a Tribe fan. I will die a Tribe fan.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Why are U even in here?
Just because U want to belove a loser team doesn't mean fans with a brain want to belove a team run into a sewer.
Don't even try to council anyone and tell them what a fan is..stupid is something I leave for people who don't use logic..and the Pirates/Indians are not what a fan wants to root for..they're a joke of organizations ..
Wow dude, classy.
Why am I even in here? Umm - the team I root for has pretty much come to epitomize the trade deadline I guess that's why. And my team also made a trade earlier in the day and now has reportedly dealt Sanchez - didn't know the thread was titled "MLB Trade Deadline: INDIANS ONLY."
I also don't want to "belove" a loser. It sucks and has sucked since late 1992. I guess you didn't understand that I was saying I like what's going on in Pittsburgh right now - tear it down - all the way down and build up like should have been done countless times over the years instead of throwing together a bunch of end of the road vets and hoping for one year of +500 baseball.
Finally, I'm not trying to preach to anyone what a fan is - just throwing out my opinion of what it means. Ammo doesn't fit that bill as a Tribe fan in my opinion so why even get worked up about it? Just go watch the Yankees as he said they were his team before the Tribe. Not a real big deal.
Stay classy, Columbus.
I'm not even gonna comment on Ammo..Elmo..whateva..I watch a lot of teams in every sport I like regardless of my favorite team..Indians haven't been my favorite team throughout the years..thats my focus..the Indians..they're a joke..I hate the way they're being run..run down..
Classy....the sarcasm is lost on a sarcastic person like myself..first cuze I really don't care..second because I've on here since 2000 battled many a poster, and I'm not soft...at all...
I've hammered the Browns...but when it comes to the Indians..I have very little good to say..and oh just so U know...I was a Pirate fan back in the day of "Willie" Stargell and Parker..
Now I'm gonna be logical for U...U can't expect fans to come to the game if year after year U trade away your BEST players/young players who turn out to be solid pros for cheap prospects that you try to ram down your fans throats that one day they're gonna be a core piece..and if they turn out to be core players-see the endless list, they DO get traded away..
No matter how people spin it it's whats happening...
If Lee was not going to return ...fine BUT YOU GET TALENT for him..U get at least one player off their starting ballclub..not 4 minor league players who may never amount to anything..the Indians didn't even get one top player in the Phillies organization..they got guys other than whom they felt were actually the best..
U want to build the team ?Then ADD MAJOR LEAGUE TALENT ...STOP dealing it to other teams..
Look at this:
" Amaro acquired Lee without giving up Drabek, rookie left-hander J.A. Happ, who was 7-1 going into his start at Arizona, or highly touted minor league outfielders Michael Taylor and Dominic Brown.
"
How do U not demand and get one of these guys??
Because Mark Shrapnol is weak ...and a FOOL..he's turning out to be Jim Pasxon and Ted Step who managed the Cavs..he's so eager to deal away his talent that he'll SETTLE for whatever a team is willing to dump..they're not even going to miss those players when they get to keep and develop their top players..that's stupid..it's a joke..there's no one who can can remotely reason that the Indians are doing the best thing..
Mark S. thought too much of his own ability after the Indians blew the Red Sox series..he thought he HAD enough talent on the roster for the next season when clearly he didn't..thats what you get when U have a pompus ego..you'll soon crash n burn and he has..but guess what?
He probably saved his job..absolute joke..
"At the root of this deal was balancing the conviction of our ability to compete in 2010 with the opportunity to impact the team's construction for years to come," Indians general manager Mark Shapiro said in a statement.
How many years has Shrapnol said this?
Every freaking year he points to the next year as the year they're going to compete but he BLOWS payroll on ridulous aquisitions, and the good ones he does aquire he deals away..
This team will always be in construction mode.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/30/09 08:20 AM.
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we traded cy young winners in back to back years, and didn't get one major league-ready player. not one.
the red sox traded manny, who was also on rental, who's still good but is past his prime and the sox get jason bay?
fail.
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Just clicking... This thread is really starting to resemble a thread one would find in Pure Football. Here, let me help: You all know more about baseball than the other guy. Better?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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You are not a true Cleveland Fan.
You don't root for the Browns, the Cavs and the Indians. All Cleveland sports. I see your Reds pic.
Sorry, but this is a load of crap. The "Cleveland" thing is lame. Anyone following a team for the majority of their life is going to feel strongly about their team. I'm a Reds fan and have been all my life. Being a Clevelander doesn't give you squat as far as loyalty and getting angry about your team and the things they do.
That being said, Deepthreat is way off base chastising people for being angry. Obviously throwing a temper tantrum and saying you are leaving for another team is pathetic, but consider the source. The fans have every right to be upset over these crappy moves and a lack of success.
I do wish MLB would do something to change the inequities in the game, but I think a lot of teams use this to excuse bad decision making and failure.
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Attack, you're seriously splitting hairs saying "we didn't even get their top prospect." Carrassco was #1 ranked player in their system last year, #2 this year......unless you're telling me you'd prefer a 22 year old pitcher who already had to have Tommy John surgery (Drabek)? Just so we could say we "got their #1 prospect"? A guy that has that serious of an arm problem at 20 should not be the centerpiece of a trade IMO. I suppose if Shapiro had got Drabek everyone would say, "why did we trade a Cy Young winner for a guy who had Tommy John surgery"? We got 3 of their top 4 prospects and a guy that has unlimited potential.....I'll ask again, what more could be possibly have got?
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-jc- Not directed at anyone in paticular but I've read both sides of the argument on the first few pages and I had a few comments. Two years ago we were up 3-1 on the eventuall World Series champs in the ALCS. How far away was that team, we showed up at the end of the season when they started playing better and made thier run. We sold out the playoff games. What did they do in the offseason??? Nothing. So we start out bad and trade CC to the Brewers before the All-Star break because he was a free agent at the end of the year and would be commanding a 20mil ++ contract and you would have to out bid the Yankees. Now what did they do this offseason?? Kerry Wood??? Yeah that is pretty much it. So we are bad again, bullpeen can't hold a 7 run lead and again we trade our Cy Young Starting pitcher for prospects. I can't believe I actually just said that, we traded our Cy Young pitcher for the second year in a row for prospects. We recieved no MLB ready talent in return??? Wow, that is depressing. People can get on me all they want. I have tickets to this Friday's game and I will still go. But it will be the last time I go this year. And I can tell you this is some thing I do with my Father in-law every year and I told him last night next year were going to an Aroes game or a Captains game in stead. At least we will be seeing the same level of talent for half the cost. Dolan is going to have to spend money to pack the place again. If his attitude is us fans need to come down for him to spend money then welcome back to the 1970-1980 tribe teams my fellow fans. We will be back in droves when the team can compete and that will only take Dolan opening up his pocket book, making and investment to get some talent and possibly taking a loss for a year or two to have a winner. You have to spend money to make money. I already bought my tickets for this Friday, but that is it. I'm done for the year and I don't know when I'll be back. If people want to call me a front runner, fine. I don't care. I'm not going to root for another team, but I won't support the Indians untill they start showing me they really want a championship. Baseball is dead to me.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
Quote:
Mark Shrapnol
A little off-topic, but whats with everyone around here calling sports figures (or ppl in the news I guess) they don't like by some made up name that usually doesn't even make sense? I see it all the time here, its usually never funny, I mean, does it pain you that much to use the guys name?
Ok, sorry for the interruption, back to your 
Eat it Phil...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
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J/c...
I understand the frustration, but you guys have to look at it logically. With how baseball is set up, like it or not, this is a move you had to make. Lee's contract was up after next year, correct?
You were not going to compete this year or next. Why keep a guy that you are going to lose at the end of next year anyway, when you have no chance of competing?
You got some very good prospects in return, so you can groom them this year and next year, which you weren't going to compete in anyway, then be ready to compete in 2011.
If you don't make this trade, you have a Cy Young winner on a last place team. What good does that do you?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
J/c...
I understand the frustration, but you guys have to look at it logically. With how baseball is set up, like it or not, this is a move you had to make. Lee's contract was up after next year, correct?
You were not going to compete this year or next. Why keep a guy that you are going to lose at the end of next year anyway, when you have no chance of competing?
You got some very good prospects in return, so you can groom them this year and next year, which you weren't going to compete in anyway, then be ready to compete in 2011.
If you don't make this trade, you have a Cy Young winner on a last place team. What good does that do you?
the tribe doing this move just told their entire fanbase that they have thrown the towel in for the next 3, even 4 years.
it might even be longer than that.
fausto carmona is now our #1 pitcher.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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Let me ask you this though. Do you believe you guys were competing this year or next year?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Let me ask you this though. Do you believe you guys were competing this year or next year?
probably not, but now we know for sure that this team is done for the next 3-5 years.
it's a fact now. it was spec before. now it's fact.
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Hall of Famer
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If you guys aren't going to compete for the next two years. You keep Cliff Lee, then two years he bolts, which he would have. Where are you then?
At least now, you have a solid group of young prospects to build around.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
If you guys aren't going to compete for the next two years. You keep Cliff Lee, then two years he bolts, which he would have. Where are you then?
At least now, you have a solid group of young prospects to build around.
build?
lolz.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Splitting hairs??? Are U serious?? U just traded away your second CY Young pitcher in two seasons...let that sink in.. Did you read whom the Phillies kept? THE ones they were allowed to keep are their BEST prospects.. Did you see these guys ERA's??? If I'm getting prospects their production better show they're worth it.. Have the Indians recieved any immediate starters to move into their lineup? Have they actually recieved any MLB vets to put into their lineup? No..just young guys who may never make it.. Please don't even try to sell me on this..MLB is quite different than football/basketball...the premise is equal..its a gamble..but I want U to tell me how are the Indians supposed to COMPETE as your lame GM said when you don't have any talent? U see every team competes..they compete to win a game.. this team isn't going to contend for a championship the way it's being run. This organization will compete to see what games they can win ..not if they can actually win on a competitive level. Nas the bottom line is the Indians will groom good players untl it's time they recieve a pay raise, then it's time to deal them for the next set of prospects and say they are the new core players..Shrapnol is a Jim Paxson in disguise..and Dolens..are a joke also..it's a cycle and a dead end. Your owner and GM stressed it would take pitching to win..they said they wanted titles..so why are they trading their best pitchers AWAY Nas????
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/30/09 10:41 AM.
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Posts: 17,027
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
love the economy excuse that shapiro spat out in his presser.
sure, economic reasons. guess we can see that
and it'll be economic reasons when 2,000 fans show up on average to games next year.
the dolans won't care though, they'll be in the black. and that's all that matters.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Why he continues to be allowed to use the word compete and not challenged on it is beyond me...if I'm a reporter I ask him to explain what he means by compete and how does he expect to compete for a WS ring if this cycle keeps going on??
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
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j/c...
I keep reading that the Red Sox are trying to pull off something big.
Still talking to the Jays about Halladay, and the Padres about Adrian Gonzalez.
I really don't know who I would want more. Either one helps us A LOT. We need another bat, and we know A-Gon is a great bat.
But, on the other side. Once we get to the post-season, your rotation only has to be about 3-4 deep. Could anyone compete with Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, and Halladay in the post-season?
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