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Explain some the bad contracts to players who aren't producing..explain in 07 when they coulda spent to add pieces all they really added was kenny Loften.
It is about the system in baseball but it's a;so about how the Indians have spent their money and they haven't done it wisely.
Teams like the Yankees, Red Soc, Dodgers, etc., can each afford to make mistakes on players. A $10 or $20 million player doesn't pan out, or gets hurt? Well .... it hurts, but it's not fatal.
It's fatal for a team like the Indians.
If a team like the Indians had signed Wright .. Pavano ..... Weaver ..... Neagle ..... to the (then) huge contracts, they would have been handcuffed as far as sopending goes for years to come. The Yankees shrug it off.
The Yankees can buy a guy like Jason Giambi for $120 over 8 years ..... and if he's "OK" or less ... it's OK. For a team like the Indians, a signing like that would make Hafner's deal look like the biggest bargain this side of A-Rod.
Money plays a huge role as far as who makes good decisions and who makes bad ones .... because money allows a team to replace the bad ones without missing a beat .. where the lack of money forces a team to live with their mistakes.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I absolutely LOVE Vic. He's been one of my favorite Indians....but if you can move him for Buchholz, is there any way we wouldn't do that?
It would be pretty painful to trade Victor, he's been a great teammate and player but we don't have a pitching prospect that's even close to Buchholz. If Fausto comes back and fills one of the top 3 spots in the rotation and Buchholz starts to settle in, we could actually have a decent staff, even without Cliff.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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you are absolutely right that when we have spent money, it hasn't always been wise.
however, the Kenny Lofton acquisition was a big part of our playoff push that year...he was great for us for 2 months.
also, the DeRosa and Blake signings were also well placed money, they didn't turn out as expected, but Shapiro was able to flip them for much better prospects than I would have expected.
now, Hafner and Wood obviously didn't pan out and with Westbrook hurt....that's about a 1/3 of our payroll this year not producing. which kills a small market team.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
I absolutely LOVE Vic. He's been one of my favorite Indians....but if you can move him for Buchholz, is there any way we wouldn't do that?
It would be pretty painful to trade Victor, he's been a great teammate and player but we don't have a pitching prospect that's even close to Buchholz. If Fausto comes back and fills one of the top 3 spots in the rotation and Buchholz starts to settle in, we could actually have a decent staff, even without Cliff.
i love vic too, he's been one of my favorite indians since they broke up the old team.
but hey, at least if this trade goes through we get a guy who's actually done something at the mlb level.
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Bucholz is a good prospect, but outside of his no-hitter, he hasn't been spectacular at the MLB level...
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Legend
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Bucholz is a good prospect, but outside of his no-hitter, he hasn't been spectacular at the MLB level...
still has potential, on top of actually pitching at the highest level of baseball.
can't say that about anything we got for lee or sabathia.
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Quote:
Quote:
Bucholz is a good prospect, but outside of his no-hitter, he hasn't been spectacular at the MLB level...
still has potential, on top of actually pitching at the highest level of baseball.
can't say that about anything we got for lee or sabathia.
^^^^^^^^^
This. The guys we got for Sabathia should be playing this year and the guys we got for Lee should be playing next year.
Instead, it couldn't be further from the truth.
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It's a good trade for you if it goes through. I hope that 3rd team involved somehow sends us a pitcher, too if that happens, though. Because our starting pitching has been awful lately. Beckett and Lester have pitched okay, but after that we've had Penny and Smoltz stinkin' it up.
Losing Bucholz without adding another pitcher is dumb to me.
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Rushing prospects is typically how you ruin them. It's a big jump to the MLB level. You have to give guys time to identify their weaknesses (and improve on them) and also allot the coaches time to develop them as players. Plus, who said these guys would be playing this year? Or was that simply your expectation? and if I'm not mistaken, isn't there some 60 games left?  They'll get their feet wet this season and hopefully challenge for roster spots next year. No reason to bring them up before they're ready (See Andy Marte). It can crush a player's confidence and significantly set back his development.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Indians were also scouting two AAA players in Pawtucket this week. One named Michael Bowden, RHP, and the other named Junichi Tazawa, LHP. They are also reportedly interested in an single-A player named Casey Kelly, RHP. I think there may be an opportunity for this trade to expand into a much larger deal involving a 3rd team, and possibly, Kelly Shoppach, Jhonny Peralta, or Jamey Carroll. At his point, if it nets more pitching prospects, I'd be for it.
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You won't get Kelly. He and Daniel Bard are off limits. If we trade either one of those guys for a guy not named Roy Halladay, I might pull an Ammo and switch teams 
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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How about if we throw in Carl Pavano?  Seriously, I think Peralta could be big in Fenway, and the Red Sox are worried about Lowell's shrinking OPS.
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We won't get Peralta to play 3rd if we get V-Mart. The reason we are after V-Mart is because of Lowell's declining health. We'll move Youk to 3rd, V-Mart at 1st, and use Lowell as a utility guy.
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Legend
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You still need a shortstop, IMO.
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Yeah. I wouldn't be opposed to Peralta playing SS.
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Okay, so we get Bucholz, Bowden, Tazawa, Bard, and Kelly and you get Martinez, Peralta, Carroll, and Pavano ... deal?
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Only if that's a 3 way deal that also nets us Halladay 
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