DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Race still factor in NFL

I know this is a hot button issue....so i hope everyone can be civil about it and give their 2cents...

I agree with the author as far as Smith n Dungy not downplaying the race card....for the simple fact that we all should celebrate our differences not just assimilate into one big blob and pretend we are not different... I know most of the people on the board disagree with this POV...but thats okay...i just wanted to put my 2cents in before hand..


Issue date: 1/31/07 Section: Letters to the Editor:

I think Joshua Lehman has his facts screwed up. Does he truly believe that, in the National Football League, "race ceased to be a factor years ago"? Let me tell you why that is an incorrect statement and why color is still a factor in the NFL. Four short years ago, when I had just begun grad school, I did research regarding racism in the NFL and at that time there were only two black head coaches. Now there are six, which is an improvement, but to go as far to say racism in the NFL has disappeared is simply wrong.

Two of the pipelines into NFL head coaching jobs are NFL Coordinator positions and NCAA Division 1 head coaching positions. While the NFL has also improved in the number of coordinators there are (about 32 percent of assistant coaches are black), the NCAA has six black head coaches out of 117 teams (U of Miami hired an black at the end of the 2006 season). In addition, while the number of black coaches has increased, the number of black presidents, general managers and owners remains embarrassing low.

When the Giants named Jerry Reese their GM a few weeks ago, he became the sixth black GM in NFL history. The sixth! There are no black majority owners and no black CEO/presidents, not one. So to summarize, 65 percent of NFL players are black, 32 percent of assistant coaches are black, 19 percent of head coaches are black and zero percent of owners and CEO/presidents are black. Seems to me the further up the power structure you go, the more lily white it gets. (You should take a look at Richard Lapchick's Racial and Gender Report Card).

I want to address one more of Lehman's assessments. He said Dungy and Smith need to stop thinking of themselves as black coaches. Excuse me, but saying the solution to the race problem is for blacks to stop thinking of themselves as such is ridiculous! How is that a solution? Whether you want to admit it or not, Mr. Lehman, we live in a society that still sees and judges people on the color of their skin, and that includes the NFL. Dungy and Smith are talking about an important milestone; they are the first two black head coaches to reach the Super Bowl. Why should anyone ignore that?

I applaud both Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith, not for just their coaching accomplishments, but for not downplaying their race. Slowly things are improving, but they didn't start improving because people didn't talk about it, in fact just the opposite, people openly discussed and analyzed racism in the NFL. Then, and only then, did the NFL itself address the issue. Dungy and Smith should keep on talking and so should reporters and fans; let's talk about how racism at the head coaching position is starting to subside and continue discussing how we can apply that trend to the GM, president and owner positions.

Trish Kelly
Austin, TX
web page

Oh i guess i shoulda posted this before hand...but here is the original article that someone replied to...

Color not important in NFL
Commentary
Josh Lehman
Issue date: 1/25/07 Section: Sports
Peyton Manning finally got over the hump. The Bears are back in the big game for the first time in my lifetime. Yet neither of these events are the big story heading into Super Sunday on Feb. 4.

With his team's 39-14 win against the Saints on Sunday, Bears coach Lovie Smith became the first black head coach in history to earn a trip to the Super Bowl. Colts coach Tony Dungy joined him a few hours later after his squad beat the Patriots in a 38-34 thriller.

What's the big deal?

Both coaches agree that we'll know true progress has been made when this is no longer a story, but the reason this is a story is because both coaches keep talking about it. After the game, Smith said he wanted black kids to know they can aspire to winning championships not only as players, but also as coaches. Dungy echoed his sentiments in his press conference, adding that he was proud to be representing the African-American people.

The fact of the matter is that in the wild world of the NFL, race ceased to matter years ago. It hasn't always been the case. In fact, Steelers owner Dan Rooney was key in establishing what has come to be known as the Rooney Rule, stating that all NFL teams must interview a minority candidate when conducting a head coaching search.

The Rooney Rule has worked. There are currently six black head coaches in the NFL. Joining Dungy and Smith are Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, Chiefs coach Herman Edwards, Browns coach Romeo Crennel and new Steelers coach Mike Tomlin. Aa closer look, though, reveals the Rooney Rule isn't what's behind the black coaches getting hired in the NFL.

Success and accomplishments are behind the hirings.

Crennel isn't coaching in Cleveland because he's black, he's coaching because he's a defensive mastermind. Similar statements can be made about every other coach in the league, whether they're white, black, green or blue. Perhaps Al Davis said it best with his famous mantra of "Just win, baby!" because that's what drives the coaching carousel in the NFL. This league is all about winning football games, and ultimately, winning championships.

While Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream has certainly not even come close to fruition on the national or world stage, the NFL is a sign that progress is being made one step at a time. Coaches are judged not by the color of their skin, but by the numbers in the "W" column, and that's the way it should be.

Personally, I look forward to the day when Dungy isn't referred to as a black head coach, but simply as a head coach. An important part of making that happen involves Dungy. He has to stop thinking of himself as a black head coach before the rest of us can.

The drive toward true equality doesn't stop at a black man getting the same opportunities as a white man. It can only be achieved when the accomplishments are just that of the man, with no mention of color whatsoever. For us to reach that goal, all men and women have to see things the same way, and that includes whites and blacks as well as, in this case, coaches and media. More specifically, Dungy and Smith need to stop playing the race card, and the media, myself included, have to stop running this as a story.

Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith have now reached the first Super Bowl of their respective head coaching careers. 'Nuff said.

Josh Lehman is a junior in journalism and a staff writer at The Lantern. He can be reached for comment at joshua.lehman@gmail.com.
web page

Quote:

---

Personally, I look forward to the day when Dungy isn't referred to as a black head coach, but simply as a head coach. An important part of making that happen involves Dungy. He has to stop thinking of himself as a black head coach before the rest of us can.

---

This is exactly the kind of statement that i'm talking about....that my friends is ALSO called racisim believe it or not....to ask someone to assimilate to the point where they aren't allowed to be who they are? that is so wrong...i'm not saying we should TREAT anyone diff cuz of their skin color....just not pretend that we are all one color...

I expected these exact replies....i'm not trying to change your minds...just putting it out there.....

Once again...everyone has their own views on the topic...i put mine out...i know lamma agrees with what i have to say...

Quote:

---

Assimilate?? WTH are you talking about? I couldn't care LESS what color someone is. Sorry, that is not racism.

---

Call it what you may...racisim...prejudice? who knows...

Let me put it this way...
You believe in the Melting Pot while i believe in the Salad Bowl lol...i hope you know where i'm goin with this analogy...

I just believe that one day we can judged not by the color of our skin, but by the content of our character.

I have no problem with your feelings on the subject. We just disagree Is my opinion right..... maybe. Is your opinion right.... maybe. Is the truth somewhere is the middle.... maybe. What I think the difference between us is that I have never even once looked into how many owners/GM's/ CEO's/ coaches/ or players are white, black, yellow, red, or green because I don't even think in terms of color.

Me too.
But I just thought I'd throw it out there.

However is they ever come up with a NAAP National Association for the Advancement of People. I'm in

Quote:

---

However is they ever come up with a NAAP National Association for the Advancement of People. I'm in

---

Sounds like the perfect rival for PETA.

How is that related to People Eating Tasty Animals?

Well we can't advance on an empty stomach

Aside from a handful of franchises, most have been in families for decades. And the rest, well apparently it just happens that the white guys bid higher than any black/red/yellow candidates. It has nothing to do with race, just $$$.

CEO and GM's, like everything else, it takes time to assimilate these positions, most of these guys have been in the business for a long time. I'm sure when the pool of candidates balances out with folks of different races, you will see this area also becoming more balance.

In the end, does it matter what color the front office is, or the head coach, or anything? If anything, the NFL is doing alot to help us make progression with the whole racism thing, because as the players and coaches become more notable, and their faces are flashed on our TV screens, and kids begin to look at them as role models, the color will fade and the just become people, regardless of skin tones.

Ever notice that mixed friendships among young children is more prevalent than it was when we were young? These things take generations to overcome as habits are hard to break in people, so you need to count on the next generation to take the next step, and so on, until it's just chapters in a history book.

Whats wrong with that?...This is SB week, its not about Dungy or Lovie...It should and ALWAYS should be about the players....Its about the Colts and Bears...Heck, when I first heard that the colts and bears were going to be playing in the SB, I didn't even think about the fact that Dungy and Lovie were "african-americans"....It wasn't until I turned on ESPN that I realised that....Thats all they were talking about....The media loves conflict and hot-button issues and this is a hot-button issue

IMO, Dungy and Lovie should try and divert all the attention away from themselves and towards the game

Tankful of excuses

Chicago Bears defensive lineman Johnson points the finger at everyone for his multiple run-ins with police and flat-out refuses to apologize

January 31, 2007

MIAMI — One semiautomatic rifle. One loaded .45-caliber handgun. One collection of four other guns. One ammunition stash of 550 rounds.

One police raid of his home. One book thrown at him on multiple weapons charges. One probation violated.

One scene of his two young daughters being carried from his home during the raid. One visit to a club the next night, where someone murdered his bodyguard.

One game suspension by his team. One home confinement ordered. One judge in Bear's clothing allowing him to attend the Super Bowl.

One apology?

I asked Tank Johnson if he was sorry.

"Sorry to who?" he said.

Sorry to society?

He turned his broad back to me. He shook his head. He laughed. He said nothing more.

There are many legendarily dumb questions asked at the Super Bowl's annual media day.

On Tuesday, asking a criminal defensive lineman to show remorse was apparently the dumbest.

As it usually happens on media day, the Super Bowl players from the Chicago Bears and Indianapolis Colts swaggered the sidelines as if in their own world.

Tight jerseys stretched across massive frames. Tattoos covering the bulging arms. Eyes hidden in expensive sunglasses. Diamonds studding the ears.

Many are young, huge, hip and appear to exist in their own reality.

Tank Johnson opened his mouth and proved it.

In an hourlong defense of the indefensible, the Bears' embattled star blamed his troubles on everything from racism to poverty to unnamed demons.

Not once did he say he was sorry.

And not once did he say that he was going to play it safe on the wild streets here during Super Bowl week.

"I never hurt nobody," he said.

You decide.

In November 2005, he was sentenced to 18 months' probation after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor gun charge. Three months later, he allegedly scuffled with police outside a Chicago nightclub, but charges were dropped. Then, last December, police raided his suburban Chicago home and found more unregistered guns — resulting in a probation violation and his third arrest in 19 months.

The day after the raid, the Bears publicly warned the players to avoid off-field problems.

That same night, Johnson hit the clubs again along with his bodyguard, who was shot and killed.

His legal problems prompted the Bears to suspend him — for all of one game. They need him to win.

The court took it more seriously, ordering him confined to his home unless he's working. He is here this week only after a judge allowed him released.

In a year when the NFL was nearly as violent on the streets as in the stadiums, it is only fitting that one of its Super Bowl stars could be headed not to Disneyland, but to jail.

And, by the way, has he stayed out of those troublesome clubs since coming here? Of course not.

"Let's just say I've had a very nice time here," Johnson said.

He smiled, as he did frequently during a session in which he wasn't nasty or angry, which was really scary.

"I got caught up in the whole thing of being a normal guy," he said.

Normal? By whose standards?

Judging by the way his teammates openly supported him and his team barely disciplined him, Tank Johnson is apparently normal in today's NFL culture.

The game has clearly changed. The rules are clearly different. The Tank Johnson interview says more about Sunday's game than the thousands of sound bites spewed during it.

]b]Today's players live in a different world. The average American will think they understand what they are watching. The average American will have no idea.

Just listen.

OK, Tank, so why does a 6-foot-3, 300-pound man need so many guns?

"I'm from Arizona, I live in the desert," he said.

So, why keep loaded guns in the house with two young children?

"People have the liberty to ask that question but, if you have kids, you know how it is," he said.

Are you worried about the trauma to the children, who are 3 and 1?

"I don't think my kids had trauma," he said. "They just had a tough day."

Do you really think you have been treated unfairly?


"Of course I would say that," he said, later adding, "I've never felt racism in my life before, but now … I look at it like, is this because I'm a certain thing?"

Racism?

"I'm young, I'm black, I have tattoos, I'm easy to stereotype," he said. "I don't look like you, I don't walk like you, I don't talk like you."

So this means you should be allowed to keep weapons and break team rules and violate probation?

"I learned a lot about people," Johnson said. "A lot of people are demons, man. A lot of people are out there to hurt people."

Are those demons the people who would question your lifestyle?

"Where I grew up, you'll never know, you'll never understand," he said. "It's white America. It is what it is."

It is an insult to all races to blame a probation violation on skin color.

It is an insult to all gun owners to blame illegally owned firearms on a lack of cultural understanding.

It is an insult to all parents to imply that children can be defended only with guns.

Yet, for an hour Tuesday, Tank Johnson would have had you believe that it was America that was insulting him.

I understand the complications of the inner workings of today's NFL locker rooms. I know it's a violent game, and we must be sensitive to the violent backgrounds and natures of the gladiators who play it. Living underneath helmets and visors and anger, the players are indeed from a different world, and there's no reason we cannot celebrate those differences.

But couldn't he have just said he was sorry?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-plaschke31jan31,1,2957491.column?page=1&coll=la-headlines-sports-nfl

Yes,race still is a factor,just ask Tank.

Quote:

---

Yes,race still is a factor,just ask Tank.

---

Okay...by saying this i am NOT supporting tank or anything he stands for...

But...have you ever thought that you sound the same by saying there is no such thing as racism in this day and age?

I find it almost funny how many of you stick to the same ol cliches and pretend life is all happy and great and we are all living life like god intended us to live.....sorry to break it to ya.....as far as we have moved forward in this day and age it's not done yet....just because it's not common for someone to experience raciam doesn't mean it doesnt' exist.....please stop being at one end of the specturm....try to undersand where the minority population is comming from and stop telling everyone "we are all human beings and thats all we r" cuz we aren't.....we are different....i don't know why it's sucha big deal for everyone to see that...


I wish i had lot of time to get into this stuff....i just hope i don't offend anyone while trying to get my point across....last thing i want to do is come off like i'm spewing off bunch of racial slurs....

I just want you to understand there are
"two ends" of a spectrum.

It's not a one sided issue. That's my point. Racism exists in "all races" towards "other" races.

Of course....i know that...

Heck i agree with 90% of the thigns in here...only 1 big thing i don't agree with is that we should ignore someones skin color....not so we can treat them diff...but because i believe in diversity not assimilation.....and as much as some of you don't want to believe there is no such thing as assimilation in american society today there is.....there are lot of factors in our everyday life that we never notice that force us to become something we aren't to get where we want to go....and the best examples of this comes at higher end jobs where people should fall under certain standards to reach new heights....some of them are reasonable...some aren't...i'm talking about in general of course.....

The same theory can also be applied to sexism....does anyone want to argue there is no more sexism??? sure there is LESS than there use to be....but there is plenty out there still......there are still plenty jobs that are dominated by males alone.....if you understand this then why don't u understand that is where a minority person is comming from as well....

In short...while we are moving in the right direction...we are NOT there yet....

Quote:

---

CEO and GM's, like everything else, it takes time to assimilate these positions, most of these guys have been in the business for a long time. I'm sure when the pool of candidates balances out with folks of different races, you will see this area also becoming more balance.

---

Yep...i agree that it will take time....of course it does...that is not what i was saying....i'm saying that it still is a factor.....a black coach let alone 2 going to the super bowl is a big deal...it is bigger than the game....that is just my opinion of course....

Most of us are biased towards football and will say that nothing is more than the game itself....but sometimes we have to step back and put on our non-football fan hats and reflect on the situation....if you told someone back in the 50s that in 2006 the superbowl will be coached by 2 black coaches...would u have believed it???? Why not take some time out and give respect where it's due? whats wrong with that? it's amazing feat for them...they have come a long ways......

Your right, it's a step forward, and a good thing for them in general. But if it was me, I wouldn't want it to be the focus.

I mean for pete's sake (not sure why we give a damn about pete, but go with me ) It's the frikken Superbowl, 2 out 32 teams get there each year, in the last 40 years, only about 50 or so coaches have been there. even fewer have won it. Why focus on a social and civic issue, when we should be focusing on what a great achievement this is for the men in general, regardless of their race.

There's 600 million people in the USA, 2 of them are coaching teams in the Superbowl, talk about elite status.

I'm appalled at the lack of women coaches in the NFL...

Yes,we do differ there. And my "opinion" of that has some validity if you will hear me out. You see the word "white" is a HUGE oversimplification. It's far more complicated than that.

Irish,German,Italian,French,Sweedish,British,Polish,Russian and God knows how many other nationalities are wrapped into one simplistic term and all labeled as "white".

When in fact,those nationalities have had bitter conflicts and racial divides amongst themselves. The same holds true about the blacks in our nation. They come from several nationalties and backgrounds. Often from black nations that have major conflicts among themselves as well.

So IMO,the fact of the matter is,we are ALL one big melting pot. Differing people from different nationalties all trying to form a union. You seem to indicate you see it from a color perspective,where I see it as a nationality perspective.

Because we are all,for the most part,a hodge podge of different nationalties without regard for other considerations. If we purposfully seperate ourselves along color lines,it serves no purpose than to lose the fact that we aren't simply "two seperate colors" but rather a multitude of nationalities meshing together to form one nation.

I look at it as a much broader picture. I don't think people from Jamaica,Uganda and South Africa have all that much in common from their background other than the fact they are black,do you? Just like I don't feel a person from Russia has much in common in their background as someone from Great Britan.

So we simply see it on quite different terms I guess.

lol GM i kno you have thick skin....thats a good thing on the board

Well we should not make a BIG DEAL out of the skin color...but we should not ignore it completey because of what it means.....it can mean several things.....culture, nationality, religion tons of other things....one could even go out as far as language but that is a ify subject(should eveyone learn english or should everyone who knows english learn another popular language like spanish)..but the big ones being cultural and religion...

I just hope you guys know there are 2 schools of thought here...there are LOT of people who believe we should celebrate our differences rather than ignore them...