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I've been reading everything I can about the team lately. I have seen all the sports sites opinions about them, and also what the fans think. The one thing I've noticed is noone thinks we will have a effective passing game, mainly due to the recievers we have.
I've mulled this over many times and come to the conclusion that IMO it's not going to be as bad as many think. Sure there is the questions about Braylon's hands, but the guy is a legitimate threat, no matter what the fickle fans believe. He does garner double teams and a lot of attention from the opposite teams defense. If his confidence returns, he can be a big time threat to score at any moment.
Now to the rest of the bunch.Many feel that Robiske will be the number two guy, which is great. Many also say rookie WRs rarely contribute much their rookie season. This being said many feel this to be a weakness (#2WR). Enter Patten. Sure he's getting up there in age, but as a number two guy, I think he could be effective. He knows how to get open, and runs good routes. Teams can't look at him as if he's a guy like Steptoe. Patten can play, and can't be overlooked. He isn't going to be a major threat, but he is a legitimate #2 reciever. If defenses overlook him, it would be a mistake. Now team him with Robo at the #2 spot, and I can't see how that can be looked at as a weak spot.
Now think about Furrey. He was not brought in to be a deep threat or a #2 option. He is very well suited for the slot. He is tough, runs good routes, and can go over the middle. He also is a seasoned veteran who knows how to get open. Again, match him with the possibility of sharing time with Robo, and the #3 spot is covered.
The TE position also needs to be looked at here also. Heiden is a key here. If he is healthy, he can do it all. His blocking is good and his hands are also. Royal is also known as a good blocker, and put up some decent numbers catching the ball also. Rucker is the ace in the hole. Coming into the league, he was known for his recieving skills and speed. To me this is a solid group that will add a lot to the passing game in terms of blocking and being that outlet on third down and in the redzone.
Massaquoi is just an added option. If he develops, he could also contribute as a #2 option. He has the speed to stretch the feild, and hopefully his hands continue to improve as they did in his final year in college.
All in all, I don't see a weak recieving core, but one with potential. Furrey and Patten are the keys. If they can produce and mentor the young guys, we will be fine.
#gmstrong
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Robiskie has the background to break that notion that rookie WR's don't do well their first year... Seems that he is well prepared for the NFL. Hope I am right...
And having MoMass as the 3rd option is good... Not to mention throwing Cribbs in there as well..
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Quote:
Robiskie has the background to break that notion that rookie WR's don't do well their first year... Seems that he is well prepared for the NFL. Hope I am right...
And having MoMass as the 3rd option is good... Not to mention throwing Cribbs in there as well..
Marques Colston, Anquan Boldin, etc all had success in their first years. Hell, Braylon did before he got derailed as well.
One thing I do know about Robiskie: He's been working his ass off all summer to be prepared to make a splash.
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I see no reason why this WR core shouldn't be able to suffice. BE doesn't need his confidence back - he needs his concentration. He's his own worst enemy when he let's his ego run wild. I think EM will keep him in check and focus in the right direction.
Furrey as the #3 is solid. He has talent and has put up good numbers in worse offenses.
Our #2 is a bit weak with either Patten or rookie Robo and I don't expect great things from either - but they shouldn't be bad enough to drag us down.
Heiden is an under rated TE and I hope we throw him the ball enough. Every time he's "filled in" good things have happened.
This group of WR's is better than many that have made it to the Superbowl (see the Troy Brown lead Patriots).
I'm much more concered about RB than WR.
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Legend
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This group of WR's is better than many that have made it to the Superbowl (see the Troy Brown lead Patriots).
Yeah but I heard they had a pretty good QB 
I really hope Mo Mass can stud out because I hate that we drafted him over LeSean Mccoy 
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This group of WR's is better than many that have made it to the Superbowl (see the Troy Brown lead Patriots).
Yeah but I heard they had a pretty good QB
I really hope Mo Mass can stud out because I hate that we drafted him over LeSean Mccoy
They also had a pretty good coach  Maybe we finally have one, too.
Can't argue with you about drafting a WR in the second. WR's are a dime a dozen and very good ones are FA's every year.
I'd have been thrilled if we had taken Mauluagaua auauaulauga with the Robo pick. I realize he's a bigger "boom or bust" risk but most 2nd rounders are a gamble anyway.
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I guess the biggest question mark for me with the WRs is Massaquoi...I didn't really understand the pick when it happened, and I still don't get it now. Now, i don't know much about him as a player, but it appeared to me like he had good physical skills but lacked break away speed and didn't have the best hands.
Does anyone know how he has been doing thus far? Any updates?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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All Pro
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Quinn, behind an improved offensive line, will be picking secondarys apart all day no matter who he has catching the ball. Next year Quinn will be a top 20 pick in fantasy!!
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"no matter who he has catching the ball"
See that is the big question we know Quinn can get it there can someone catch it?
Joe Thomas #73
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Quote:
The one thing I've noticed is noone thinks we will have a effective passing game,
What do we care what Noone thinks? Wasn't he the the guy that said we were a contender last year?
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Sure there is the questions about Braylon's hands
As Braylon's hands go, our offense goes. - It's as simple as that. You gotta be able to throw deep in order to set up the run. If you can run effectively you will open up the intermediate passing game with play-action.
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I guarantee Braylon will not drop nearly as many balls this year. Last year he tried to do too much sometimes. He is one player I am not worried about at all. This is a contract year and he will be focused.
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I don't think the recieveing group is weak. It would have been if Edwards was traded, that did not happen. We have BE who the defense has to account for. I really like the Furry addition- the slot is solid. The number two will be fine with Patten early and Robiskie getting more time as the season progresses. I will be curious to see how many WR's the team keeps- some good players are going to get cut- the project from Wisconsin (name escapes me right now) better have a huge camp and even Steptoe could be in trouble.
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Honestly, on PAPER, we have a pretty weak receiving corps. However, given all the changes we're likely to see in our offense going into 2009, I think it is too early to really tell if this group of wideouts will end up being productive or not this season. A lot depends on how much and in what manner they are used. Obviously, a lot also depends on who ends up as our starter at QB. I'd be surprised if it wasn't BQ, but we'll see.
Too many question marks in the offense to really say at this point. Perhaps we'll have a little better idea once we get through TC and see what unfolds during the pre-season games.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Honestly, on PAPER, we have a pretty weak receiving corps
On paper you have a #1 WR in BE that is just a season removed from the ProBowl, has put up generally solid numbers through his career, and is a better #1 than at least 16 other teams have (you could argue more).
At #3 you have Furrey who, if he is past his injury, is a "top ten #3", especially when you recognize how bad most #3's are.
So you must be putting a lot of weight on the #2 WR position with Patten/Robo. While Patten is unlikely to be dynamic, he's experienced, has good hands, and a better than average "game knowledge".
While there are a few teams that have "Houzmenzada's" at the #2 WR position, there aren't many. The media gets it in there head that a team lacks something and then just runs on like it's a fact - with few of them bothering to even evaluate it.
This WR corp is decent compared to most the league.
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Let's take a look at a few teams in the AFC:
Jets: Cotchery, Stuckey, Clowney
Dolphins: Ginn, Camarillo, Wilford, Hartline
Bills: Owens, Evens, Reed
Ravens: Clayton, Washington, Williams
Jags: Holt, Williams, and I can't even guess which no name is their 3rd
Titans: Gage, Nate Washington, Britt
Broncos: Marshall, Gafney, Royal, & CJ Jones (of Browns roster cut fame)
Chiefs: Bowe, Bradley, Engram
Raiders: Javon Old Man Walker, Heyward-bey, and ???
Chargers: Chambers, Jackson, Byrd
Which of these WR corps make you say "WOW!, we are outgunned!"??
And before you jump on the Buffalo TO/Evans tandem - keep in mind real life.... Do you REALLY want a TO? I don't.
Maybe the Chargers have a nicer WR set.... But Chambers is fragile and Jackson disappears for weeks at a time.
IMO the current Browns WR corp is as good - or better - and in some cases MUCH better - than the teams listed above.
Only the elite passing teams have better (patriots, Colts, Steelers, and each of those teams are expected to win their Division).
The Texans have WR talent, as well.
The Bengals have 85 & Coles. Is Coles a ton better than Patten? Maybe.
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I think the key with Buffalo is that TO is in his first year there. He always does well in his first year. Also, a guy like Lee Evans is perhaps good enough to push their WR corps up by himself.
But, I get what you're saying.
And, let's not forget that we took a big step in solidifying our offensive line this year (assuming Mack plays as well as we all hope he does).
It's pretty darn easy to be a QB when you have 7 or 8 seconds to throw. Someone is going to get open eventually. Hell, we've witnessed that from the other side all too often.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Hmm, you could be right if you are only speaking of Edwards, Patton and Furrey.. and if that turns out to be accurate, then wouldn't it follow that we only improve if Robo or Mass win the jobs from Patton and Furrey? Maybe we aren't as bad as it first appears.. Come on Robo... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It is a subjective argument, to be sure... Forget who is considered a "#1", "#2" or "#3" wideout. It would not be difficult to come up with more than 16 WRs who are better all around receivers than BE. Don't get me wrong, I've always liked BE, but he is what he is: a talented but inconsistent wideout who will amaze you with an insane catch on one play and stun you with a dropped ball that hit him right in the hands on the next. ::shrug:: There are a fair number of better, more consistent wideouts in the league (some of who are their team's "#2" WR -- for whatever those labels are worth). Quote:
At #3 you have Furrey who, if he is past his injury, is a "top ten #3", especially when you recognize how bad most #3's are.
Ok... so what you're saying is that, in Furrey, we have among the best of the bottom of the barrel of guys who've seen the field at WR.  Look Furrey and Patten are career #3 guys who have enjoyed SOME spotty success here and there. They are stop-gap players with some experience, but there were reasons why they were available for us to pick up: at this point in their careers they just aren't all that good.
As for Robo and Massaquoi, they are rookies. I hope one or both develop into bonafide NFL starters as the season goes along. Maybe they will. Most likely, however, their contribution THIS year won't amount to a whole lot. History is NOT on their side when it comes to projecting a breakout rookie season for either player. I don't say that because I think they just suck altogether. I don't feel that way at all. I'm just not going to get all that excited about the prospect of either of these guys putting it all together THIS season. It just doesn't happen too often.
So, in summary, ANOTHER way to look at the Browns WR corps ON PAPER is that we have a talented, but inconsistent #1 in BE followed by some NFL flotsam, a couple of rookies, a super special teamer( but not much of a receiver) and some TC fodder to round things out.
Like I said in my original post, we'll see how things turn out. Heck, we don't even really know what our offense is going to look like scheme-wise. Alot could change come Week 1. However, IMO, this WR corps looks kind of weak ON PAPER.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Here's the quick and dirty version of the NFC:
Giants: Smith, Hixon (who I'm a big fan of), Sinorice Moss, Nicks
Eagles: Brown, Baskett, K Curtis, Jackson, Maclin (no star, but lots of nice depth)
Redskins: Santana Moss, Randle El, Williams
Bears: Hester  , Rideau, and ??
Lions: Johnson, Bryant, Northcutt (this may be the best WR corp I've listed)
Viking: Berian, Rice, Harvin
Falcons: White, jenkins, finneran
Bucs: Bryant, Clayton, Jackson
Rams: Avery, and ?? and ??
49rs: Bruce, Crabtree, Morgan
Seahawks: Branch (I've fallen and I ccan't get up) TJ Houz, Burlson (aka Invisible man)
Same as the AFC in that there are a few teams loaded such as Arizona, Carolina, Green Bay, Saints.
Dallas has R Williams & Crayton.... Not sure if that's good or not (and neither are they).
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It is a subjective argument, to be sure...
Yep
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a talented but inconsistent wideout who will amaze you with an insane catch on one play and stun you with a dropped ball that hit him right in the hands on the next. ::shrug::
IMO that's coaching / focus. I expect that to improve this year.
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Ok... so what you're saying is that, in Furrey, we have among the best of the bottom of the barrel of guys who've seen the field at WR.
the same was said about the Pats acquiring Welker cheaply.
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As for Robo and Massaquoi, they are rookies. I hope one or both develop into bonafide NFL starters as the season goes along. Maybe they will. Most likely, however, their contribution THIS year won't amount to a whole lot.
Couln't agree more - Never trust a rookie WR. I expect very little from MoMo all year and am only hopeful that Robo can contribute in the second half of the season.
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I think Furrey can match the 17 catches and 170 yards that the much more expensive Stallworth did, in just half a season. On top of that, I dont think Furreys going to have the time to be spiking any of the star players ankles now that the Browns have a real training camp. Plus the 2 rookies will be an upgrade over Steptoe and Cribbs. Edwards is out a huge payday if he matches what he did last year but even Northcutt suprised me with the contract he recieved from JAX.
Not a great WR core, but I think its an upgrade from last years underachievers.
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These articals dont mean sqwat, They rated our O-line one of the top in Football last year, than it all fell apart. Lets see how they play and then rate them.
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Ok... so what you're saying is that, in Furrey, we have among the best of the bottom of the barrel of guys who've seen the field at WR. Look Furrey and Patten are career #3 guys who have enjoyed SOME spotty success here and there.
Do you see what I mean now about Furrey?
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok... so what you're saying is that, in Furrey, we have among the best of the bottom of the barrel of guys who've seen the field at WR. Look Furrey and Patten are career #3 guys who have enjoyed SOME spotty success here and there.
Do you see what I mean now about Furrey?
He did look good tonight.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I guess the biggest question mark for me with the WRs is Massaquoi...I didn't really understand the pick when it happened, and I still don't get it now. Now, i don't know much about him as a player, but it appeared to me like he had good physical skills but lacked break away speed and didn't have the best hands.
Does anyone know how he has been doing thus far? Any updates?
yep, I thought that it would be better to draft a tackle in that slot.
I wonder if the Stallworth situation had any effect on the decision.
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While Furrey looked for Welker like last night.
1. it is only one preseason game...hope we see more of the same.
2. Furrey is up there in age - he was brought here to do that THIS SEASON...I'm not sure how much he is as an asset for long term.
As for the 2 2nd round picks at WR...we had to shore up the corp.
Rookie WRs are rarely relied upon...they both were drafted not for this season.
in 2010 we have the possible loss of BE rather be put in a position of matching any offer and passing on any available compensation. By drafting two prospects and having them both come into fruition we can possibly afford to lose the talents of BE and take the compensation in the form of a 1st rounder and possibly more.
I don't see how this is hard to understand - Even if its something I personally wouldn't have done. I can easily see why. I'm all right with anything that makes sense...and this does.
Actually I personally would have preferred McCoy at 33 and forego the Robiskie pick If I was doing the picking. Still I understand what we did.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Good point.
I forgot about Edwards's contract expiring.Can we really get that much for Edwards?
FWIW Stallworth will be allowed back next year.
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Quote:
Good point.
I forgot about Edwards's contract expiring.Can we really get that much for Edwards?
FWIW Stallworth will be allowed back next year.
Keep in mind that BE is one of the premier names that could be impacted by the CBA expiring. I don't recall the exact reasons but it means that we could force BE to stay another two years after this.
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if there’s no CBA signed by next offseason, Edwards would only be a restricted free agent next year, which means his cost for 2010 would be a lot less. In fact, his team would only have to offer him a tender at 110% of his 2009 salary to keep his rights. That’s $5,005,000
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I wish I was Braylon..if I were like him I couldn't catch a cold..or the flu.. 
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Can't argue with you about drafting a WR in the second. WR's are a dime a dozen and very good ones are FA's every year.
I'd have been thrilled if we had taken Mauluagaua auauaulauga with the Robo pick. I realize he's a bigger "boom or bust" risk but most 2nd rounders are a gamble anyway.
Not sure I understand this logic.. You dont argue about taking a WR in the 2nd and then say they are a gamble anyway.
And this: "WR's are a dime a dozen and very good ones are FA's every year"
Toad says the same thing about RB's yet we still don't appear to have that position solved.. Is any team scared of or even respect our running game ? If good ones are a dime a dozen I have a dime I would gladly contribute......
I'm not as worried about our receivers as I am our running game.
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Toad says the same thing about RB's yet we still don't appear to have that position solved..
Consider the last two really successful years we've had by RB's: Droughns and Lewis. One was acquired for a bunch of spare parts, the other acquired in free agency, neither was vastly expensive to acquire in terms of draft picks or salary. It's also very easy to acquire quality RB's without spending 1st round picks on'em.
As to why we don't appear to have the position solved, when the offensive line is playing well, we get Lewis of 2007. When it's playing poorly, we get the Lewis of 2008. But when you give a guy like Lewis a 3rd year, you get an old, broken down RB The position looks like a question because we've had to spend our money and draft picks at so many other important positions. Such as...........WR's.
Taking WR's high is a huge gamble, but less of a gamble as you get to the bottom of the 1st round and beyond. When comparing WR's to RB's, expensive WR's can be had every year, yes, but the quality and depth of them aren't nearly as good as at RB. If you REALLY want good WR's, you do have to draft'em. Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but really quality WR's need to be drafted.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Can't argue with you about drafting a WR in the second. WR's are a dime a dozen and very good ones are FA's every year.
I'd have been thrilled if we had taken Mauluagaua auauaulauga with the Robo pick. I realize he's a bigger "boom or bust" risk but most 2nd rounders are a gamble anyway.
Not sure I understand this logic.. You dont argue about taking a WR in the 2nd and then say they are a gamble anyway.
And this: "WR's are a dime a dozen and very good ones are FA's every year"
The person I was responding to said something to the effect of "drafting a WR in the 2nd was a poor decision".
I was agreeing with him. I would have strongly prefered to have drafted LB or RB with that pick (and the additional 2nd behind it that we got for KW2).
So, I believe I'm agreeing with you as well.
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Legend
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I know I would have liked to have picked up LeSean McCoy, but that's just because I have a man crush on him.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
If you REALLY want good WR's, you do have to draft'em. Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but really quality WR's need to be drafted.
You're going to send me off on a tirade 
Top notch WR's fall off trees! Moss, Welker (a 3rd and a 7th?) Chambers (a 3rd or 4th as I recall) Boldin (who may be the best WR in the NFL, certainly top 5 and all they wanted was a 1st?) and the list goes on and on.
I'll take a roster full of FA's and cheap trades over drafting a WR any day of the week. Furrey, JJ, Bryant, the other Bryant.....
Friends don't let friends draft WR's.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
I know I would have liked to have picked up LeSean McCoy, but that's just because I have a man crush on him.
From what I hear so does Andy Reid.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I don't think our receiving was ever thought as more than average anyway.
Anyway, we've played one pre-season game. Things will develop further.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
I like to think that Furrey showed his value last night. Eo says it was one preseason game, but this guy is a vet, he has already deleloped. What you see is what you get. He did in the game last night, what he was known for......a dependable slot reciever.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
I know I would have liked to have picked up LeSean McCoy, but that's just because I have a man crush on him.
The Browns could use a young productive back..I know the back I wanted but they had to bolster the WR core...
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Recieving core weak?
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