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Interesting about Don Carey. He tweeted this just yesterday...
There will be no Twitter comments posted on the board
I asked him what he meant, and he never replied. Best of luck Don!
He meant that it is not permitted to post "tweets" on the message board.
Last edited by Referee6; 08/06/09 11:19 PM.
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The whole thing stinks to high heaven to me. Why just straight up cut him? Why not pup list him and let him get healthy and get a better look at the kid?
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pup... wouldn't that mean a roster spot? Pretty sure they're taking their chances on the PS with him... Unless those tweete said something else.
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PUP doesn't take up a roster spot.
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j/c I don't even like this thread existing! BAD JUJU... Think I'll burn some "inscents" to appease the football gods... Maybe offer up some bottled spirits and a pin-up pokey-haunt-us too! CROSS EVERTHING!~ 
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/07/09 10:08 AM.
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Sacrifice a Bengal fan to appease the gods!
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Quote:
Sacrifice a Bengal fan to appease the gods!
Make it a Steelers fan instead. 
Seriously though .... losing Hadnot hurts our depth a great deal. It hurts, not only at Guard ..... but also at C, as he could have been the backup should Mack win the starting job from Fraley.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
There will be no Twitter comments posted on the board
Thanks Ref. I asked about that last week and got no response. Now I know... and knowing is half the battle. Go Joe!
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I don't believe PUP is an option if he wasn't on the PUP list to start camp.
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NRTU....... Quote:
Source: Cleveland Browns' Hadnot out for season with torn ACL
by By Mary Kay Cabot
Friday August 07, 2009, 8:41 PM
A league source said that guard Rex Hadnot suffered a torn left anterior cruciate ligament Thursday and is out for the season. The Browns would not confirm the report. During his news conference Friday, Mangini would only say that the medical staff is still conducting tests on Hadnot's knee to determine the extent of the injury.
Hadnot was carted off the field after linebacker David Veikune apparently tripped over left tackle George Foster and fell on the back of Hadnot's knee.
With Hadnot out, Eric Steinbach has been taking the bulk of reps at left guard.
"It's difficult,'' said Mangini. "You never, ever want to see anyone get injured..It also ties into why it's so important to build flexibility into the offensive line.''
Mangini acknowledged that Hadnot would be missed if lost.
"(Hadnot's) been doing a good job,'' Mangini said. "I liked him in the classroom. He's very sharp and he answers all the questions I give him in squad meetings. I like his stoutness. He plays physically in both the run and passing games.''
Linkeroo
Well, it looks like some bad news. I think that we still have guys to fill in for the guy---and at least this injury happened early in camp so we can move on and prepare to play without Rex.
I really like the way Mangini/Kokinis is running things. He went into free agency and the draft with the sole intention of adding depth to our roster. He wasn't interested in getting "big name" guys. He just wants solid, dependable, smart role players. Savage didn't seem all that interested in depth. And our last regime seemed to crumble if faced with injury. This year we are prepping for all sorts of dings and situations. Like it a lot. I think Lerner made an outstanding move when he went out and got Mangini----and I think the Jets were DUMB to let him go.
***edit
Quote:
Source: Hadnot has torn MCL
by Mary Kay Cabot
Friday August 07, 2009, 8:46 PM
A league source said that guard Rex Hadnot suffered a torn medial collateral ligament Thursday, which means he could be back sooner than origianlly thought. The Browns would not confirm the report. During his news conference Friday, Mangini would only say that the medical staff is still conducting tests on Hadnot's knee to determine the extent of the injury.
Hadnot was carted off the field after linebacker David Veikune apparently tripped over left tackle George Foster and fell on the back of Hadnot's knee.
With Hadnot out, Eric Steinbach has been taking the bulk of reps at left guard.
"It's difficult,'' said Mangini. "You never, ever want to see anyone get injured..It also ties into why it's so important to build flexibility into the offensive line.''
Mangini acknowledged that Hadnot is a valuable member of the line..
"(Hadnot's) been doing a good job,'' Mangini said. "I liked him in the classroom. He's very sharp and he answers all the questions I give him in squad meetings. I like his stoutness. He plays physically in both the run and passing games.''
Linkeroo-two
OK MKC---so which is it. Two articles on the same injury written within 5 minutes.
Hope its the less serious speculative injury.
Last edited by Tyler_Derden; 08/08/09 05:03 AM.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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 Man.. this sucks... I really think he was going to start... Tucker is going to have to step it up at RG then...
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Quote:
Savage didn't seem all that interested in depth. And our last regime seemed to crumble if faced with injury.
Savage was working from the the base of not having even starting talent when he got here. He needed that first. M/K came in with at least a base foundation of starting talent so they could focus more on depth.
In addition, M/K needed to evaluate what talent they have so it didn't make sense to start bringing in "big name" talent until they first know what they already had. So essentially what they did was the same thing Savage did in '05, namely, no big names, just depth until they've gone through a season to evaluate. The big difference this time is that the depth had to be a more talented group due to the difference in talent that was already on the team. M/K couldn't just bring in warm bodies. They needed stronger depth.
I believe if Savage were still here he would likely be taking the same approach M/K is doing regarding the depth: Replace a few starters i.e. Barton for A. Davis, Elam for S. Jones etc, etc. and the rest a higher quality depth.
M/K did not do something Savage wouldn't do. They did something Savage couldn't do, taking into consideration the overall talent level they each started with. Savage needed starters at all positions. M/K needed a few starters and depth. (Savage needed depth too but first things first).
For one instance, if we'd not already had Rogers we'd have possibly seen M/K bring in a big name DL for the nose. Maybe Rogers if still available or Haynesworth even though he cost a ransom. But with Savage having already brought in Rogers, that left M/K with the luxury of focusing primarily on depth.
Just as M/K did, this would likely have been the offseason when Savage replaced a few starters and then focused primarily on a better, higher quality of depth.
#gmstrong
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I don't think Savage would have done what ManKok did.
He probably would have broke the bank in FA again and had a top-heavy roster short on depth.
And there's no way we would have had 8 draft picks.
Savage was a HUGE problem in this organization last year.
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Quote:
I don't think Savage would have done what ManKok did.
He probably would have broke the bank in FA again and had a top-heavy roster short on depth.
And there's no way we would have had 8 draft picks.
Savage was a HUGE problem in this organization last year.
Good post. Savage did like big moves, judging from his actions. Sometimes they worked out, sometimes not. Although I can't blame the guy for wanting to do drastic things to get talent on the team.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
OK MKC---so which is it. Two articles on the same injury written within 5 minutes.
Hope its the less serious speculative injury.
I'm going to go with the newest article as they are both written by Kay, so i am hoping for the MCL to be correct.
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I have an idea!
How about we wait and see if Rex Hadnot is placed on IR or not?
MCL or ACL Mangini won't comment, and I'm fine with that.
Why? It's INTERNAL BUSINESS. And "Internal business is something that we're not really gonna discuss." - George Kokinis
(Honestly I'm just lashing out at the media for lashing out at ManKok for playing things close to the chest...it's internal business, why should they discuss internal business with the media?)
Last edited by Ammo; 08/08/09 11:59 AM.
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They're crying because they want something to report on. Freedom of information and such. I for one am a fan of the new information policy, as its not that hard to disseminate whats going on anyways, but I like keeping the information away from the competition.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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At least we signed a bunch of linemen.
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Quote:
They're crying because they want something to report on. Freedom of information and such. I for one am a fan of the new information policy, as its not that hard to disseminate whats going on anyways, but I like keeping the information away from the competition.
I know.
But it's internal business.
What is it about INTERNAL BUSINESS that they don't understand?
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Hadnot has not suffered torn ACL
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on August 8, 2009 2:13 PM ET
The Browns received good news Saturday, when they learned guard Rex Hadnot only has a MCL tear in his knee, not an ACL tear as previously believed.
The initial diagnosis of an ACL tear was communicated directly from doctors to Hadnot, but that diagnosis proved incorrect after further testing.
Mr. Florio, who is spending the afternoon with the family in Cleveland, sent along the news via his Sprint phone. (I've been corrupted.) According to a league source, Hadnot now has a chance to play in Week One.
Hadnot is a massive guard who fits what coach Eric Magnini wants to accomplish in the running game. He also has some flexibility to be a backup at tackle.
The injury may hurt his chances of starting right away, but he's expected to be a key reserve at the very least.
PFT.com
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very good news. hopefully Hadnot heals fine and is ready to go versus Vikes, even as a backup..... depth is always a good thing. He's decent with some talent around him, IMO.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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j/c
something just happened to Steptoe. Stay tuned.
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Did he catch a ball properly?
gmstrong -----------------
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Steptoe was carted off the field. Don't know what happened since they were doing half-speed walk through today.
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Quote:
He also has some flexibility to be a backup at tackle.
I don't know that we should trust this report. 
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Savage did like big moves, judging from his actions. Sometimes they worked out, sometimes not. Although I can't blame the guy for wanting to do drastic things to get talent on the team.
As I said, he needed to make "big" moves. M/K didn't plus they needed to evaluate the existing players.
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Quote:
I don't think Savage would have done what ManKok did.
He probably would have broke the bank in FA again and had a top-heavy roster short on depth.
And there's no way we would have had 8 draft picks.
Savage was a HUGE problem in this organization last year.
That huge problem last year brought us 2/3's of our starting DL. Imagine had M/K come in here without a nose tackle.
And exactly how do you have a top-heavy roster short on depth? Would that mean starter quality two deep at some positions with one of them on the bench? If so, would that also be considered "short on depth".
I agree that we'd not have had 8 picks so then probably not Alex Mack either. But I heavily doubt he'd have picked at 5. He'd have likely moved down at least some.
I'll repeat that Savage didn't need depth so much as he needed starters. Sure he needed depth, every team does. But you have to have starters first or your whole team is made up of depth players just like '05.
The idea that Savage ignored depth, something that's been tossed around on here a lot, is ridiculous. Was he supposed to stand on below average starters while filling in depth. I've got news for ya, they are the same thing. Below average starters = good depth.
One reason Savage might not have done exactly what M/K did would have been that he already knew what he had here. He didn't have to spend this year evaluating the existing players as M/K has. So yeah, he may have brought in a name or two. Which, if you think about it, is another way of developing quality depth as some of the previous starters become that depth unless they were making ridiculous money far beyond their talent.
I like what M/K has done and is doing. But that doesn't make Savage an idiot. He's brought in some very good players that M/K inherited thus making their jobs a bit less daunting.
JMHO
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There were no big names out there... So that is why Mangini and Kokinis didn't grab any body in free agency...
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Savage did more harm than good for this organization in terms of player relations, media leaks, not acquiring personnel for a system and generally being an egomaniac.
I'll leave it at that.
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Agreed. I always thought he seemed a bit arrogant in his press confrences. It's a little strange how he went from being a GM to a radio broadcaster for Alabama in six months.
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Quote:
Savage did more harm than good for this organization in terms of player relations, media leaks, not acquiring personnel for a system and generally being an egomaniac.
I'll leave it at that.
Since he was fired first it must of been pretty obvious near the end.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I only need to look at our offensive and defensive lines before and after Savage came here to know that he left this team better than he found it. He could have done better with his tenure here, but he did answer two of the biggest questions on this team post Butch Davis before he left, with solid starting units and decent depth at these important positions.
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I wanted to change the subject....since he's most likely not done for the year. Hoping for a speedy recovery!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
I only need to look at our offensive and defensive lines before and after Savage came here to know that he left this team better than he found it. He could have done better with his tenure here, but he did answer two of the biggest questions on this team post Butch Davis before he left, with solid starting units and decent depth at these important positions.
agreed. I don't understand the Savage bashing. His drafts and FA acquisitions put the Browns at 10-6 so the tam was improved.
He came in with very little to work with, I think the only players left are Tucker, Dawson and Pointebrand.
Last year was messy, for sure, but I think the memory is still to fresh to allow an honest assessment.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I'm not criticizing his performance in terms of adding talent to the roster. If you look at the roster it's not an expansion roster like when he took over.
But he fell WAY short of expectations in other aspects of being a GM. He struggled with the second day picks because he drafted for talent more than intelligence and how the player fits a system. His best second day picks were players where system didn't matter much (corner...you can either cover or not, runningback...you can either show you have vision or not, etc), not positions that are system-reliant (receiver, linebacker, DL, OL, for example).
Did he sign a Mewelde Moore off the waiver wire? A Jim Leonhard? Nope. Instead we got such miracle workers as Terry Cousins. He was awful with pro personnel. Part of that is why our depth sucked so bad.
His FA acquisitions were hit or miss. It's not hard to sign big names (Steinbach) and have them be big boosts, it IS hard to find "system guys"...which Savage did next to nothing right with. Whiffing on Stallworth...trying to force him into the offense as a deep threat when he's a short pass YAC guy (despite his speed)...you can thank Chud for that one too.
This doesn't even get into how he treated the coaching staff and players. Look, Romeo's coaching staff was incompetent as hell, but a GM shouldn't be dictating to a coach what he wants the coach to do. It's the other way around like we have now. Let me clarify that, that does *NOT* mean the coach should override his GM like Botch did...it means that the coach goes to his GM and says "I'm looking for this kind of player" and it's up to the GM to find it...hopefully there's a consensus.
Last edited by Ammo; 08/08/09 10:55 PM.
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You are so far out in left field on this one. 
Savage brought us Quinn, DA, BE, Stein, JT, Fraley, JL, JC, JH - virtually all our skill position players. Players good enough to go 10-6 with a bungling oaf of a HC. Players good enough for the current regime to retain and speak highly of.
The acquisition of Shaun Rogers alone is one of the best player trades/acquisitions EVER made by the Browns. Rubin, KW, DQJ, Hall, are all highly praised by the new coaches.
Savage may have missed on LCB -but who thought that was a bad signing at the time?. Cory Williams may have been a miss but that hasn't been determined yet. Yet Savage is getting ripped because his 6th round picks didn't pan out?? We've already cut a 2009 6th round pick 
I don't mean to blast you in particular - but you seem to be the one wearing the "Savage Sucked" t-shirt the most around here lately  I think it's one of the most uninformed arguements on this board and in the media.
Savage made HUGE strides for this team talent wise. He kept most players happy most the time. If this team has a good year, a very large part of the credit will be due to the roster that Savage left behind.
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Quote:
I'm not criticizing his performance in terms of adding talent to the roster. If you look at the roster it's not an expansion roster like when he took over.
But he fell WAY short of expectations in other aspects of being a GM. He struggled with the second day picks because he drafted for talent more than intelligence and how the player fits a system. His best second day picks were players where system didn't matter much (corner...you can either cover or not, runningback...you can either show you have vision or not, etc), not positions that are system-reliant (receiver, linebacker, DL, OL, for example).
Did he sign a Mewelde Moore off the waiver wire? A Jim Leonhard? Nope. Instead we got such miracle workers as Terry Cousins. He was awful with pro personnel. Part of that is why our depth sucked so bad.
His FA acquisitions were hit or miss. It's not hard to sign big names (Steinbach) and have them be big boosts, it IS hard to find "system guys"...which Savage did next to nothing right with. Whiffing on Stallworth...trying to force him into the offense as a deep threat when he's a short pass YAC guy (despite his speed)...you can thank Chud for that one too.
This doesn't even get into how he treated the coaching staff and players. Look, Romeo's coaching staff was incompetent as hell, but a GM shouldn't be dictating to a coach what he wants the coach to do. It's the other way around like we have now. Let me clarify that, that does *NOT* mean the coach should override his GM like Botch did...it means that the coach goes to his GM and says "I'm looking for this kind of player" and it's up to the GM to find it...hopefully there's a consensus.
Completely agree with this Ammo. And to your last point, that a coach should tell his GM what he wants, what happens when said coach asks his GM to draft a reach at OLB/DE instead of drafting the GM's choice of a solid 350 lb. NT, ala Wimbey over Nata, I know this is hindsight but this is still my biggest dissapointment of all of Savage's miscues. It's definitely time to look ahead, and I like what I see, but just some reminiscing before we all bite into the 2010 season. Good to hear some encouraging news on Hadnot, although with it being a "knee", I'm won't be too optimistic about the return of a OL with a knee injury this season.
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I gotta give Savage his props...
He hooked us up w/ some talent..
Eric Wright
Brandon McDonald
D'Qwell Jackson
Kamerion Wimbley
Brodney Pool
Ahytba Rubin (I like)
Shaun Rogers
Jerome Harrison (I like)
Joe Thomas
Eric Steinbach
Braylon Edwards
Josh Cribbs
Brady Quinn
More defensive players than offensive.. but.. He did his thing..
Only thing I didn't care for w/ Savage is he didn't really look for players that Romeo wanted... That was Romeo's downfall.. as well as Savage... Reason why he got the boot so quick, and why Romeo was offered a job under a different regime..
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I'm not one to praise Savage at this point, but he is still being bashed more than he should.
He did a very good job of getting us talent. Just take a look at all of our notable players right now.
QB: Quinn and DA - Both brought in by Savage. DA was claimed off waivers.
RB: Jamal, Harrison, and Davis - Jamal and Harrison both brought in by Savage. Many criticized the Jamal signing and Harrison was a 5th rounder.
FB: Vickers, Ali - Both brought in by Savage. Vickers is one of the best in the NFL.
WR: Braylon, Robo, Furrey, MoMass, Cribbs, Patten - Braylon and Cribbs brought in by Savage.
TE: Rucker, Heiden, Royal - Rucker brought in by Savage.
T: Thomas, St. Claire, Tucker - JT brought in by Savage. Best move ever.
G: Steinbach, Hadnot, Womack - Steiny and Hadnot both brought in by Savage.
C: Mack, Hank - Hank brought in by Savage when we desperately needed a center.
NT: Rogers, Rubin - Both brought in by Savage. We gave up a 3rd and Bodden for Rogers and got a gem in Rubin late.
DE: Williams, Robaire, Mosely, Coleman, Purcell - Williams and Robaire both brought in by Savage. Williams should be a stud this year and Robaire has already given us one very good season.
OLB: Wimbley, Hall (late round pick who had to adjust to a system, Ammo), Veikune, Bowens - Wimbley and Hall brought in by Savage.
ILB: D'Qwell, Barton, Leon, Maiava - D'Qwell and Leon brought in by Savage.
S: Pool, Elam, Adams, Sorenson - Pool, Adams, and Sorenson all brought in by Savage.
CB: Wright, McDonald, Hood, Ivy, Francies - Wright and McDonald brought in by Savage.
K: Dawson - BS (before Savage. Fitting isn't it, as everything before that was crap)
P: Zas - Brought in by Savage.
LS: Pontbriand - BS
KR: Cribbs - Already listed him, but a huge move.
So that gives us projected starters at QB, RB, WR, TE, LT, LG, RT, DE, NT, OLB, OLB, ILB, CB, CB, S, P, and KR.
Other moves that he made:
LeCharles (would've worked out if not for a freak injury)
Shaffer (say what you want, we needed someone)
Joe J. (was huge in '07)
Shaun Smith (provided good depth until he became too much of a moron for us)
With that said, I have to agree that Savage wasn't that great. He missed on many moves such as these:
Wimbley (should've taken Ngata)
Stallworth (talented player, but injury prone. You can't take his arrest into account.)
Travis Wilson (suck)
Charlie Frye (suck)
You could count others like Braylon and Shaffer, but I won't do that considering what was available. It doesn't seem fair.
My point is that Savage, despite his faults, did bring in talent. He was terrible at managing the organization and everything other than bringing in talent, but he wasn't as bad as many are making him out to be now.
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