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I know this doesn't effect any of you guys. However my community has demonstrated and has shown their true colors. My community made a statement today that we don't value our children and don't want the best education we can possibly give them. However instead that we don't care about children. All we care about is our wallet. I understand these are tough economic times. However the levy would have cost them only Edited: 254$ on a $100,000 home for an ENTIRE YEAR! This has been the most depressing day of the past 26 years I've lived here. Not only because of losing football or band but because of the overall cost to my community. My community will become a ghost town because who would want to live here? All the schools in my community no longer have: sports, band, AP classes, kids no longer have buses so they have to walk 2 miles everyday. Imagine friday night lights, a crowd roaring, the band of bands taking the field, cheerleaders on the sidelines urging on an already boisterous student section. Now imagine it gone can you imagine no lights, no sounds, nothing? The kids in my neighborhood are absolutely crushed and so am I. I haven't felt this crappy since the browns left. It's not all about football, but football games in GC are certainly one of the most visible impacts. It's about the kids not experiencing the things that made highschool fun.
I'm sorry for ranting but I'm just beyond devastated for the kids that basically had their futures destroyed today.
Last edited by candyman92; 08/04/09 10:00 PM.
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I find the loss of electives and such to be far worse than the loss of sports, but I do agree with you.
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Quote:
I know this doesn't effect any of you guys. However my community has demonstrated and has shown their true colors. My community made a statement today that we don't value our children and don't want the best education we can possibly give them. However instead that we don't care about children. All we care about is our wallet. I understand these are tough economic times. However the levy would have cost them only 22$ on a $100,000 home for an ENTIRE YEAR! This has been the most depressing day of the past 26 years I've lived here. Not only because of losing football or band but because of the overall cost to my community. My community will become a ghost town because who would want to live here? All the schools in my community no longer have: sports, band, AP classes, kids no longer have buses so they have to walk 2 miles everyday. Imagine friday night lights, a crowd roaring, the band of bands taking the field, cheerleaders on the sidelines urging on an already boisterous student section. Now imagine it gone can you imagine no lights, no sounds, nothing? The kids in my neighborhood are absolutely crushed and so am I. I haven't felt this crappy since the browns left. It's not all about football, but football games in GC are certainly one of the most visible impacts. It's about the kids not experiencing the things that made highschool fun.
I'm sorry for ranting but I'm just beyond devastated for the kids that basically had their futures destroyed today.
My senior project in high school was on school funding.
Don't get me started on the levy system. It's BS. and it's also BS when children get penalized because people want to "make a statement." All it does is hurt the children.
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I understand it's hard on the kids, but you have to understand that $22 here and $20 there add up. People are tired of getting nickel and dimed to death. I'm sure the schools can come up with fundraisers to help support sports/band/whatever. No, it won't be the same, but it will be something.
Edited to add:
Why in the hell doesn't the public school system (run by the government) get funding from the TRILLIONS of tax dollars we are paying anyway?
Last edited by DawgMichelle; 08/04/09 09:37 PM.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I understand it's hard on the kids, but you have to understand that $22 here and $20 there add up. People are tired of getting nickel and dimed to death. I'm sure the schools can come up with fundraisers to help support sports/band/whatever.
Unfortunately the school board has turned down those types of offers. They even turned down pay to play. The school board really screwed up and I doubt any of them will have the guts to run again for election. It's just sad that the "No voters" try to play chicken with the school board and it's the kids that lose everything. Like Phil said the kids will lose classes also and that's really heartbreaking.
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It is. I just think, especially right now, in the USofO, people are fearful to give too much because of what he is going to start taking.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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A lot of us get tired of paying more taxes every year. It adds up.
There's a local school district here who has a levy almost every year, every time the locals tell them to pound sand they cut sports and buses to badger folks into voting for the next one. They don't cut all the fat they just keep the tax machine going.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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There's a local school district here who has a levy almost every year, every time the locals tell them to pound sand they cut sports and buses to badger folks into voting for the next one. They don't cut all the fat they just keep the tax machine going.
That's probabally our district. It's pathetic and wrong, I need to get off this message board because I'm beyond angry and sad right now. 
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Either I'm thinking of the last levy or that website is wrong.
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I've seen the figure in multiple articles and news stories... the article isn't wrong.
#gmstrong
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Every year they come asking for money, but never produce. Maybe once they produce better results I'll be more inclined to vote for these.
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Every year they come asking for money, but never produce. Maybe once they produce better results I'll be more inclined to vote for these.
What do you mean better results?
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Don't know your situation - your school district.
Let me tell you how it is here. We've been badgered for higher taxes for our school for years. We hear how "if we don't get more money, we'll have to cut bussing, sports, band, all extra curricular activities, raise lunch prices, " etc. After 3 failed levies, they finally got one passed.
It wasn't more than a month later the treasurer said "oops, I didn't realize we had over $1 million sitting in this account".
That was 3 years ago. Guess what? They need more money again this year. If they don't get it, guess what they threaten to cut?
Now, keep in mind, we have all the teachers - duh, it's a school - but we also have a technology teacher - he takes care of the computers. We have a curriculum director - she makes sure we teach what the state wants. We have playground staff - apparently the teachers can't be bothered with standing outside - like they did 20 years ago. (this is the elementary school - my daughter is in elementary so I know more about that than I do the jr. high or the high school).
There is a full time nurse. She's not allowed to do anything other than put a band aid on for fear of liability. Oh, she'll call you if your kid gets hurt so you can go and get them.
We have special ed teachers - 8 of them. According to the yearbook, there were 16 kids in the special ed. class.
The waste is rampant. But what do they threaten to cut?
Haven't heard of our superintendent taking a pay cut, or the principals, or the teachers. All we get is "we have to have more money." Start teaching at 22, retire with full benefits at age 47.
Can anyone say UAW? The problems they had/have are going to rear it's ugly head in education very soon.
Oh, by the way, the county is going to raise the sales tax. They just "can't make it" if they don't. Property tax went up last year, the county DD got a tax increase, and there are 2 or 3 I'm forgetting at the time.
All these "little" increases add up. And of course, no agency can go without MORE money every year. Soon our community library will need more money, the fire department just got an increase last year as well.
Guess what? My income was $12,000 less last year than it was the year before. This year, it's looking like it will be down another $10,000. I'm self employed. So that's $22,000 out of my pocket frow what I made 2 years ago.
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A bunch of the people who live in that district, also at least work in columbus. So if it passed, you live in a 150k home, and make 80k family income, their taxes would go up 725 for the year between the two issues.... not small change...
#gmstrong
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Agreed, that was a side issue for those voters, who were also facing an increase in Columbus City Tax.
Wow, what I wouldn't give to know how many of those voters split these 2 tax issues,....
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It's just hard for me to swallow considering how much football effected my life. However I always gave back to the community. I refuse to now I have never been so disappointed , disgusted, and embarrassed about living here than I am right now. I hope all the no voters can live with themselves. Hope they have fun with their couple hundred bucks. My nieces and nephews are basically all cried out because this is their senior year. No sports, clubs, dances, AP classes for them.
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It's just hard for me to swallow considering how much football effected my life. However I always gave back to the community. I refuse to now I have never been so disappointed , disgusted, and embarrassed about living here than I am right now. I hope all the no voters can live with themselves. Hope they have fun with their couple hundred bucks. My nieces and nephews are basically all cried out because this is their senior year. No sports, clubs, dances, AP classes for them.
Look at the bright side: they're learning about life.
Just because you want doesn't mean you should get. I'm not trying to be an ass, and if you take me at that, I can understand, BUT: at some point in time gov't. institutions need to see that they can't keep spending. I don't know what school district you're in, but I bet they could cut $500,000 immediately if they'd pare down on the "oversight" and duplicative positions. Cut out some of the overhead - it won't affect the learning.
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Just because you want doesn't mean you should get. I'm not trying to be an ass, and if you take me at that, I can understand, BUT: at some point in time gov't. institutions need to see that they can't keep spending. I don't know what school district you're in, but I bet they could cut $500,000 immediately if they'd pare down on the "oversight" and duplicative positions. Cut out some of the overhead - it won't affect the learning.
Arch I don't think you're an ass because I understand what you're trying to say. It's just the school board basically took kids hostage and the no voters didn't care as long as they got the "bad guy responsible." Also the "learning about life" thing, whose to say these kids won't become spiteful and seek revenge when they become older? That's a bad lesson to learn. Then my community will REALLY be screwed. It's a lose-lose situation my friend.
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Our school district is in the black until 2010, but then they'll ask for more money. I think the *intent* is good, but most of the time the money goes toward salary increases and benefits for teachers, who only work 9 months out of the year  j/k. It would be neat to see an actual breakdown of where the money goes from a successful school levy--how much of it goes toward "hard" costs like school building maintenance, educational materials, even workshops teachers have to attend for certification maintenance. Basically, how much is an education really worth? Some teachers complain about their low salaries. But they're not news reporters for a newspaper, and we both got 4-year degrees from college. Teacher salaries=fail. Journalism salaries=epic fail. Don't even get me started on how useless the OEA is, Ammo. Death to Unions.
Go Browns!
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Same thing happened to West G.
2/03--we passed a levy by eleven (11!) votes.
Failed in 5/04, 11/04 and passed 5/05. A friend I know was VERY hell-bent on having this levy passed. Don't ask. It passed.
In '06 and '07 West G failed more levies before passing a basic renewal in 5/08--"only so our school district didn't become like Berkshire or Southington" (schools far in the eastern part of the state)
And now, I'm hearing WG on the ballot in '10 and '11.
Newbury, another small district nearby, may consolidate.
Josh
Last edited by AsianDawg; 08/04/09 11:57 PM.
Go Browns!
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kids no longer have buses so they have to walk 2 miles everyday.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. Good exercise.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Some teachers complain about their low salaries. But they're not news reporters for a newspaper, and we both got 4-year degrees from college.
Who doesn't complain about their salary?
Teachers have it pretty damn good. Now, let me say this: my mom taught. 35 years. She then was a tutor - daily - for a kid with asbergers (and I know that's not spelled right). 6th grade, 7th, 8th, freshman, sophmore, jr, and sr. years. 35 years teaching and 7 being a daily tutor - going to class with the kid every day.
Teachers have it pretty damn good. Starting salary is low, as are most starting salaries, but most people don't get 3 months off every summer. 2 1/2. Most people don't get 2 weeks at Christmas. Most people don't get a week for spring break.
After 5 years, teachers are making good money - heck they make good money starting off too in all reality.
Most people don't have the luxury of full benefits after 25 years. That's got to count for something.
Teaching isn't a bed of roses I know, but come on - 25 years and you retire? Sure, you get a retirement job, but it ain't that tough.
And yes, I know all about the continuing ed. classes, I know all about the "grading papers till midnight" crap. (although, if you start at 11, and end at 12, is it that much work?)
Teachers don't know how good they have it.
Again, I respect them for what they do. I help out in my daughters class a couple of times a month. She'll be in 3rd grade this year - I've helped out in Kindergarten, 1st grade and 2nd grade.
Teachers don't have it so bad in comparison with other working people. In fact, I'd say they have it pretty good.
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All we care about is our wallet. I understand these are tough economic times. However the levy would have cost them only 22$ on a $100,000 home for an ENTIRE YEAR!
Your figures are off... 254 dollars, not 22....
http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/local/local_govtpolitics/article/decision_2009_the_issues/20330/
It would only cost them about $22 a month. A little over $5 a week so the children in the community can have the same thing they had and took for granted as a child.
I dont know the school system and how wisely or unwisely they spend it. Or if they are a school that puts athletics above other activities.
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One thing that people I know who were against it hated and helped drive them away... they held the kids hostage. No sports. Period. They wouldn't even do pay to play. Now if you say you don't have money for sports, but don't let people pay their own way for it either, what are you really telling people? We're holding this over the kids heads and then we'll act like it's your fault when it fails. I mean, what should it matter to them if parents are willing to shell out the money out of their pocket or it came from taxes. Either way the kids get to play and if you really have their interests at heart, you shouldn't care that it came from the parents.
#gmstrong
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A starting salary for a teacher in our area (~appx. $35,000/yr) is higher than a top-scale reporter in the area (~$29,000 or so, depending on which paper you go into, and whether or not it's unionized).
And don't even get started on administrators (although they do more than teachers) or specials (curriculum directors). I understand the super has to make good money and I'm on board with that. He's the top dog.
Newspaper writers have NEVER been paid much, even in the Roaring '90s when the economy was good. But that may just apply to short-time writers. There's a lot of turnover in this field.
There are exceptions: Unionized papers like the Cleveland Plain Dealer can pay long-term writers good money. Tony Grossi and others make a good living, but they've been there since the '80s. I don't feel sorry for some of the PD people being laid off--some of them were paid more than they should have been in the first place. Others should NOT have been laid off.
Other underpaid fields: Community-based mental health, social work, paramedics. That's why my father went into private practice for himself instead of working for community mental health. They know the turnover is tremendous in that field, which is why they can keep salaries low. (~$35,000 to $40,000 a year, which isn't poor to me personally).
Go Browns!
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Now if you say you don't have money for sports, but don't let people pay their own way for it either, what are you really telling people? We're holding this over the kids heads and then we'll act like it's your fault when it fails.
That's it right there ... don't get mad at the taxpayers for refusing to bend over one more time for a poorly run school administration. Blame the administrators that refuse to act fiscally responsible and are holding the kids hostage. The fact that they won't let you "pay to play" shows their true intent. I hope every last one of those admins gets ousted in the next election.
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Candyman, I feel your pain...
I've been saying it for years, federal taxes should go WAY down and state and local taxes should go up. Let me keep the bulk of my tax money in my area to take care of the things important to ME that I have some control over. But no, the vast majority of my tax money goes to DC where the majority of it does nothing more than pay the salaries of a couple dozen extremely bloated federal agencies and the rest is spent on God knows what, to help God knows who.....
yebat' Putin
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Whenever it comes to bilking the electorate, they cut what gets the ire up. When it comes to school levies, the kids become pawns and the voters are the villains.
I'm facing a 1/2 % income tax to be on the ballot come November to bring our income tax to 2.25% I believe only Youngstown is higher in NE Ohio. The city has been cutting fire and police like mad while paying out HUGE amounts of cash in "Longevity Bonus" to city employees. Imagine that? A pay raise just because you kept your job even though there isn't any money to pay for it. Only in Government and Union jobs does that fly.
When a city wants more, they cut Police and Fire. Anything to get the ire up.
"My signature line goes here."
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But M, dear... this shouldn't be a referendum on O's performance. It's locals sending a message to other locals... and the kids are the ones who get slammed in the message sending.
The money stays in the local system, and is used by locals... who must answer directly to their friends and neighbors.
To make this a federal issue is the flip of those complaints that "the feds are in my pocket." For all folks who say that "we can take care of ourselves better than Washington can," here was their chance. They blew it.
IMHO, the two don't equate.
your thooughts?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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To make this a federal issue is the flip of those complaints that "the feds are in my pocket." For all folks who say that "we can take care of ourselves better than Washington can," here was their chance. They blew it.
IMHO, the two don't equate.
your thooughts?
I can't answer for Michelle, but if the feds weren't syphoning off the lions share of the tax dollars to spend/waste on crap that most people don't care about, then they could keep more money in the local coffers and pay for stuff they DO care about.
It's not an "O" issue but it is a federal vs state vs local issue...
The FY10 budget for the US Dept. of Ed is $46 billion..... From the best information I can find about $17 billion of that is for pell grants and other higher ed uses... which means $30 billion of it is for elementary and secondary education... $30 billion... what exactly do we get for that money? What does Ohio get back from the feds for the hundreds of millions of dollars it sends to Washington which is ear marked for education?
So you say they blew their chance to follow through on the "We can take care of ourselves better than Washington can"... to that I say fine, give the state of Ohio it's billion dollars back to put toward education and find out.
It has always struck me as odd that I have to send all of this money to DC so they can drain a large percentage of it to support bloated bureaucrat salaries and then my district gets to beg to get just a small portion of it back to educate my child, according to the guidelines THOSE IN DC view as important.... when the school is 3 miles from my house and my kids are taught by my neighbors and the school board is made up of local people that I voted for.... the whole system sucks....
yebat' Putin
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Don't know your situation - your school district.
Let me tell you how it is here. We've been badgered for higher taxes for our school for years. We hear how "if we don't get more money, we'll have to cut bussing, sports, band, all extra curricular activities, raise lunch prices, " etc. After 3 failed levies, they finally got one passed.
It wasn't more than a month later the treasurer said "oops, I didn't realize we had over $1 million sitting in this account".
That was 3 years ago. Guess what? They need more money again this year. If they don't get it, guess what they threaten to cut?
Now, keep in mind, we have all the teachers - duh, it's a school - but we also have a technology teacher - he takes care of the computers. We have a curriculum director - she makes sure we teach what the state wants. We have playground staff - apparently the teachers can't be bothered with standing outside - like they did 20 years ago. (this is the elementary school - my daughter is in elementary so I know more about that than I do the jr. high or the high school).
There is a full time nurse. She's not allowed to do anything other than put a band aid on for fear of liability. Oh, she'll call you if your kid gets hurt so you can go and get them.
We have special ed teachers - 8 of them. According to the yearbook, there were 16 kids in the special ed. class.
The waste is rampant. But what do they threaten to cut?
Haven't heard of our superintendent taking a pay cut, or the principals, or the teachers. All we get is "we have to have more money." Start teaching at 22, retire with full benefits at age 47.
Can anyone say UAW? The problems they had/have are going to rear it's ugly head in education very soon.
Oh, by the way, the county is going to raise the sales tax. They just "can't make it" if they don't. Property tax went up last year, the county DD got a tax increase, and there are 2 or 3 I'm forgetting at the time.
All these "little" increases add up. And of course, no agency can go without MORE money every year. Soon our community library will need more money, the fire department just got an increase last year as well.
Guess what? My income was $12,000 less last year than it was the year before. This year, it's looking like it will be down another $10,000. I'm self employed. So that's $22,000 out of my pocket frow what I made 2 years ago.
I agree. I got my daughters yearbook and decided to thumb through it. First where I always had around 30 kids in a class they have an absolute max of 20. On top of this they have 2 teachers, or an assistant for the teacher in most of the classes. I realize that teachers are important, but it seems like the whole system is horridly bloated. If it was run by private industry the government would be clamoring to take it over.
The other thing that drives me nuts is they have termporary levies they make permanent. They have levies that were good enough at one point, but now aren't good enough. It's not like in many cases the property values are not increasing to give them more cash.
Then they turn around in the end and punish the kids. It's complete BS.
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Candy,
I feel bad about your school system/city and I'm going to tell you that the reason it comes to cutting things in a school system is usually a mis-appropriation of money or over estimating of the next year's budget. Since my nephew came to live with me, I have been sucked into going up to the school, then getting roped into PTA, then going over the school budget and the school system budget. Its not rocket science but the when you look at what things COST, alot of school systems do not have much room for error. Now add in a major recession, and that means the next year's budgets are all OUT OF WACK. That is why the states/cities..etc were all very happy to get the money from the feds because they would not have made ANY of their budgets.
So at the local and state level, it comes down to what can get cut and where can you raise some revenue. Now most of the people who comment on what the school system does, blah, blah, blah have not even been to their OWN KIDS school to look at that budget, let alone the budget for the school system. WHY, most people are too freakin lazy and would rather complain about how good teachers have it, how they are wasting money, the feds taking money..etc, instead of going to find out where if any waste is in the budget and then seeing where they can raise revenue.
Hopefully, the parents in your district can come together and make some choices to get some of those programs back.
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Legend
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Quote:
Candy,
I feel bad about your school system/city and I'm going to tell you that the reason it comes to cutting things in a school system is usually a mis-appropriation of money or over estimating of the next year's budget. Since my nephew came to live with me, I have been sucked into going up to the school, then getting roped into PTA, then going over the school budget and the school system budget. Its not rocket science but the when you look at what things COST, alot of school systems do not have much room for error. Now add in a major recession, and that means the next year's budgets are all OUT OF WACK. That is why the states/cities..etc were all very happy to get the money from the feds because they would not have made ANY of their budgets.
So at the local and state level, it comes down to what can get cut and where can you raise some revenue. Now most of the people who comment on what the school system does, blah, blah, blah have not even been to their OWN KIDS school to look at that budget, let alone the budget for the school system. WHY, most people are too freakin lazy and would rather complain about how good teachers have it, how they are wasting money, the feds taking money..etc, instead of going to find out where if any waste is in the budget and then seeing where they can raise revenue.
Hopefully, the parents in your district can come together and make some choices to get some of those programs back.
I hope you weren't referring to me in your diatribe.
Teachers have it good.
I'm not too lazy to check things out.
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I was gonna read this thread, bit someone has stretched the damn screen and it's no longer worth it. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I hope you weren't referring to me in your diatribe.
If the shoe fits, then it equals you! And of course having it good is a relative to where and what grade a teacher is doing their job. The difference between elementary school vs high school is sometimes mind boggling as far as the level of effort. The school system and school you are teaching at also has alot to do with the so called "ease" of profession. Tell ya what, go to the high school wherever you live and just listen to how teachers are spoken to these days then tell me about how good they got it.
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Tell ya what, go to the high school wherever you live and just listen to how teachers are spoken to these days then tell me about how good they got it.
That issue is a direct result from poor parenting.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Yes,( and you know I usually do not agree with you!)
A large portion of that is parenting. Another is why is the school allowing that type of behavior in the school. And we will not go into the pressure on a teacher or principal that wants to really discipline that kid for that behavior. Let the "numbers" of certain suspensions get to high, then the school system starts asking why! Or if there is a weak principal that does not back the teacher! The problem starts at home for sure, but other factors let it grow within a school.
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But M, dear... this shouldn't be a referendum on O's performance. It's locals sending a message to other locals... and the kids are the ones who get slammed in the message sending.
Where did I say anything about his performance? I was talking about taxes. Doesn't matter if they are local, state, or federal. Too much is too much. We also don't usually get a vote on state and federal taxes, so what's left? The ones we DO get to vote on. Perhaps they should let us vote on all of them...then the schools would probably get their levies passed. I would much rather support my school system than buy Joe Blow's clunker or support Jane Doe's kids because she can't get off her ass and work.
DC said it best: "if the feds weren't syphoning off the lions share of the tax dollars to spend/waste on crap that most people don't care about, then they could keep more money in the local coffers and pay for stuff they DO care about."
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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If the shoe fits, then it equals you!
Good, glad you weren't talking about me. The shoe doesn't fit me.
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Tell ya what, go to the high school wherever you live and just listen to how teachers are spoken to these days then tell me about how good they got it.
I can only speak about that which I know. Teachers in our high school do NOT get smack from students.
I live in a rural school district. People out here are the type that still have respect for authority. And teachers are authority in the school, around here at least. Even with the few bad apples there is no problem. I'm friends with, off the top of my head, about 15 teachers - one is a counselor, though. Respect is not a problem here. Not from me. Not from the kids. Things apparently are different where you live?
Of those 14 teachers, there's not one that doesn't want more money. That's human nature. There's also not one that thinks they have it bad. In fact, everyone of them would say they have it good - not easy - but good. They have all said as much.
Sure, they have gripes about their job, but who doesn't? Not one of them would trade what they are doing though.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Issue 2 levy (I have to rant here)
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