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There is something many are overlooking about this compettion so far. If you listen to Mangini in the pressers, they are having the offense and defense woking on specific scenarios. He said something along the lines of the coaches working on deep coverage and asking the offense to run plays accordingly. In these types of scenarios, it would be acceptable to think that the QB's might look to be struggling. He said sometimes they are working on the RBs protection, so the play ran might not be one that the QB is going to have a lot of success with facing the defense called. The 11 on 11 drills might show more, but to me it still sounds like they are calling plays to see what a certain player or group is doing during that play. We have no idea if the play called is done to see how a DB reacts or a LB, or if it is to see if a reciever is making the right read on a blitz. IMO those counting INTs and TDs are wasting there time. If we knew for sure what plays were being called to judge the actions of the QB, then the reports would hold more water. I think until they face live action, such as the preseason games, we as fans and the media, are doing nothing but wishful thinking in our evaluations. In '07, how many of us were at TC and saw Anderson look atrocious. I wanted him cut. He was terrible. That same year it appeared Dorsey, of all people, looked the best in camp. Frye looked decent, and much better than DA. Using that experience, should tell us that we need to step back and realize that the coaches have a way of evaluating these players that we don't. So camp reports from fans or the media mean nothing to the real evaluation process. I think we all need patience at this point, and a little faith in the coaching staff. I know.......been there done that 
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Anderson couldn't beat out Charlie Frye. lol. And Quinn hurt his chances by holding out... but maybe Anderson "gets" it now... I don't know... Can't wait for preseason to see these guys in action... 
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Quote:
I agree.
I just find it funny that people talk about how great DA is with the long ball, yet I thought while he could throw it long, it was usually thanks to the receiver that it was a reception, and not an INT or incomplete pass. I only recall a few passes where DA put it on the money.
Funny, I recall quite a few. Yeah, he's not perfect, who is?
Another question, is the Browns receiving core the only one who has receivers that help the QB out with catches? I'm not trying to call you out personally but statements like that just sounds like you didn't pay attention.
Don't worry, they'll both get time to prove who is better, if it's Quinn or DA we'll all be happy to know it'll be settled for 6 weeks 
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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It wouldn't suprise me to see Anderson win the Qb competition...I think both are talented and both have good points and bad points...I just feel Anderson gives us the best chance to win.
If Quinn wins the QB battle, I will support him 100% and I will not call for his head...I will just let it go
Many of you don't realize, IF Mangini picks Quinn..you have to stick with him ALL YEAR....if he throws 5 INTS against the Steelers...you can't yank him...
Quinn scares me because he is an "unknown" Anderson made a Pro Bowl, he broke the Browns single Season TD record...he is "some what" proven...
If Brady Wins the QB job..he WILL struggle...expect it...its his 1st year starting...he will most likely struggle just because he really doesn't have any expereince...he needs time to grow
Even though I want Anderson, I do have the patience to sit back and refrain from crucifying Quinn
Can the Fans in Cleveland keep their trap shut and give Quinn 3 FULL season of starting before passing any judgment on the kid?
I don't think they can....and Quinn better be prepared...if he struggles early, many will be calling for his head...
1st year Qb usually struggle...if we go with Quinn, we just gotta be patient..
That goes for Anderson as well..neither QB has gotten a fair chance here....thats a gimme
Im sick of revolving Qb...just pick a guy be it Quinn or Anderson and stick with him.....
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Just an FYI....Sipe still owns the record at 30 TD passes....Just saying...
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Quote:
If Brady Wins the QB job..he WILL struggle...expect it...its his 1st year starting...he will most likely struggle just because he really doesn't have any expereince...he needs time to grow
Au contraire. Just look at last year. People, some people that I won't name, said "it isn't like this is Anderson's rookie year, he's a 4 year vet. He can't be making these mistakes." it wasn't his first year starting for them, he was a 4 year vet.
So, Quinn is a 3 year vet. If he gets the job and struggles, I would expect those same people to get on him as well.
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yea... If Quinn was a rookie.. then expect some struggle...
but Quinn and Anderson know the game... Anderson does have more experience, but Quinn has gotten his feet wet.. He has had time to somewhat learn the game, and also work on perfecting his "craft".
If anything.. he might feel some butterflies for a play or so.. but then after that.. It's game time.. GET TO WORK! Make plays! Guide your team to Victory!
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Quote:
There is something many are overlooking about this compettion so far.
Great post! The best one of this training camp.
Quote:
IMO those counting INTs and TDs are wasting there time.
Exactly. And that goes for some of the accuracy issues and which QB looked sharper from day to day and on one type of play or another. There is no way for us to evaluate the QB's from the "reports" we get from the media because we have no idea what is behind the plays being called and what the coaches are actually trying to evaluate on each.
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Somebodys talking about giving Quinn three seasons to learn and have patience. How long did it take Joe Flacco to have patience, not 3 years.
For that matter, if some have memories, it didn't take Rothlesiburger more than half a season to be productive either. How about Carson Palmer, did he have 3 seasons of patience through non production, nope about a full season at most. What about Eli Manning, ... Now Payton Manning was bad for a while but blame the coach, when the coach changed he improved.
I meant to say at the beginning ... That I thought this place outlawed QB controversy threads back in 2002 when it was Couch vs Holcombe.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
Somebodys talking about giving Quinn three seasons to learn and have patience. How long did it take Joe Flacco to have patience, not 3 years.
For that matter, if some have memories, it didn't take Rothlesiburger more than half a season to be productive either. How about Carson Palmer, did he have 3 seasons of patience through non production, nope about a full season at most. What about Eli Manning, ... Now Payton Manning was bad for a while but blame the coach, when the coach changed he improved.
I meant to say at the beginning ... That I thought this place outlawed QB controversy threads back in 2002 when it was Couch vs Holcombe.
The quality of your coaching has a little to do with how quickly your players learn a new system.
Change is not good when your talking about QB coaches and offensive coordinators and playbooks...and the Browns have had nothing but changes.
Most, if not all named above have had consistent coaching with little changes, therefore, those QBs have had a better chance to succeed than Browns QBs...imo...mac.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree.
I just find it funny that people talk about how great DA is with the long ball, yet I thought while he could throw it long, it was usually thanks to the receiver that it was a reception, and not an INT or incomplete pass. I only recall a few passes where DA put it on the money.
Funny, I recall quite a few. Yeah, he's not perfect, who is?
Another question, is the Browns receiving core the only one who has receivers that help the QB out with catches? I'm not trying to call you out personally but statements like that just sounds like you didn't pay attention.
Don't worry, they'll both get time to prove who is better, if it's Quinn or DA we'll all be happy to know it'll be settled for 6 weeks
I don't see it as calling me out, I just really don't remember too many "on target" deep balls. But then with the crappy play last season, and DAs Jeckyl and Hyde routines in 2007, it all blends together into a murky memory that is better forgotten. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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j/c Quote:
- As for the signal callers themselves, neither particularly stood out or hurt their own status. One alarming aspect was seeing both trying to complete goal line passes in one particular drill against the linebackers and secondary without a single touchdown being completed. Brady Quinn just stood in his imaginary pocket…stood there some more…a little more….and then threw an incomplete pass to whomever. Derek Anderson simply could not find anyone open and often threw into coverage without completing a single pass. Granted, Anderson did have one pass slide through the cradled arms of tight end John Madsen who was wide open.
- Anderson was able complete a touchdown pass to an open James Davis while simulating a drive toward the end zone in a previous drill. Quinn also had a touchdown pass called back earlier when rookie Mohamed Massaquoi blocked in the back of the defender while tight end Martin Rucker rumbled into the end zone unscathed.
- Only a single score was made by the offense during this drill and was due to a play action pass from Brady Quinn to fullback Lawrence Vickers. Practice was ended by two very good defensive stands at the goal line. First, Marcus Bernard stood running back James Davis at the half inch line, while a very physical David Veikune made sure to clean the pile and finish the tackle. Lastly, Corey Williams was able to beat his blocker and notch another practice sack against Derek Anderson.
http://blogs.theobr.com/?p=1437
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Quote:
- If there was ever a model of inconsistency, the Browns QB position would be the likely target. The hot and cold streaks of Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn continued on this day as neither QB was able to capitalize on opportunities in the two-minute drill.
As has been the norm much more than the exception, each QB again displayed the ability to move the team, only to see the offensive momentum stall, resulting in lengthy field-goal attempts.
For Quinn, the story today was inaccuracy. Throwing behind receivers has been customary for the third-year signal caller. With Anderson, a dropped pass and missed connection in the short game was his undoing.
Nearly one week into camp and the song remains the same. Neither QB is grasping the job by the throat and running with the opportunity, which is disturbing to a degree as there has been far too many plays left on the field.
http://cle.scout.com/2/885775.html
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It's still early... It's still early... It's still early... c'mon, everybody now... It's still early... It's still early... It's still early...  
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Quote:
For Quinn, the story today was inaccuracy. Throwing behind receivers has been customary for the third-year signal caller.
It's year three. C'mon Quinn. Get it together.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Thats been his MO since college... he'd make a pass through a tiny window and then miss wide open recievers. Not sure if its mechanics or what. But it doesn't seem like it's been fixed.
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Again, Comparing Flacco to Quinn is not fair.
The Ravens have more talent then we do....McGahee is slightly better than Lewis because he is younger
Derrick Mason has always been a good receiver
The Ravens have a more "consistent" running game then we do ALA McGahee/Mclaine...we don't have that
furthermore the Ravens have a much, much, much better Defense then we do that created much better field position, more sacks, and more turnovers to help him out.
Flacco has a much better overall team around him then Quinn does...
Big Ben walked into a Steeler team that allready had:
1. An established good defense
2. Decent Special Teams
3. Bona Fide receiver in Hines Ward
4. A strong rushing Attack with Bettis/Parker
5. An above average Offensive Line
its not fair to compare them to Quinn...they had better teams around them then Quinn does
also, Carson Palmer was throwing to Chad Johnson and T.J Johnson led the NFL pr AFC in receiving yards 5 straight years, T.J would be a #1 on any team in the NFL and is every bit as good as Reggie Wayne for Indy...
Palmer also had a superb blocking O-line in their 13-3 serason, and a Strong Running Atttack with Rudi Johnson
Again, Quinn does not have this.....this team is arguably worse then then the colts Team Manning played for his rookie year.....
If we go with Quinn...we must be patient
Even Anderson in 2007.....We were all Offense....52 points against the Bungals and we gave up what 40+?
Our Defense has been a sieve here
Anderson had the Steelers beat in game 2 of 07...he had a 3 Td lead and our D blew the game....say it or not...if your D can't hold on to a 23 point lead...then you can't blame the QB
Anderson did enough to win that Steeler game, he threw 4 TD..Anderson DID his part...the D let Ben run 60 yards for a TD..the D couldn't seal the deal
Expect simlair happenings to Quinn...its more then just the QB...our D will again this year rank in the lower tier of the league...we haven't improved much...so what we borught in some Jets and new Coordinators...that doesn't mean our D will improve much if at all
our D has been a sieve here since we came back, and I don't care who is the QB..until we can:
1. Establish a consistent ground game.
2. Stop the run
3. Pressure the QB
4. Protect the QB
until we can do those 4 things above "consistently" every Sunday..I don't care who the QB is, it won't matter...until we get consistent in those 4 areas...we will struggle...regardless of who is under center.
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We gotta get that guy  Oh wrong thread topic.......my bad
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The only reasons to go with Anderson are:
1. He's tall with a plus arm.
2. He throws a FANTASTIC skinny post which is death to Cover 2 and Cover 4 coverages.
Quinn literally has every other factor in his favor. If this is anything close to a contest I will be shocked.
Just let the process play out. We'll see Quinn to start the Minny game guaranteed.
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I honestly do not think that Baltimore has better talent on offense overall than the Browns do.
I think our OL is close ... with theirs having the edge in run blocking and ours the edge in pass blocking. I thinnk that Thomas and Steinbach are better than any of their guys, and Hadnot would fit right in with their power running game.
Our WRs are better just by virtue of the fact that they have Mason and no one else, and we have Edwards (which alone makes it a win for the Browns) and a mix of vets and 2 2nd rounders in Robiske and Massaqui.
RB is definitely an egde to the Ravens. Figuring in their depth gives them a larger advantage.
Don't forget that Flacco only threw for 14 TDs last year. (and 12 TDs) His arm wasn't the reason they won games .. even though people wet themselves thinking about his play last season. . They ran the ball more than any other team in the NFL ... and their depth at RB really came into play. Their average yards/carry wasn't impressive .. but the number of carries sure was.
Flacco threw for about 180 yards/game. The running game (and defense controlling the game for them) is how they won. Unfortunately ... the Browns were not in position to run the ball quite as often as the Ravens were.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Reasons to go with Anderson,
He has 3 wins vs teams where if the Browns had lost they would have been eliminated from playoff contention in 2007, Seattle, Buffalo, and ?
IN 2008, He had leads against good opponents in his last 3 games and showed the aptness to be forcing the game, He was trying to win, killer instinct.
Unlike Quinn, I think he may have actually done some of these.
Answered a score with a score.
had 7 scoring drives in one game actually 5 plus for a long game stretch in 2007.
Thrown for 300 yards on the day
Had 2 more touchdowns than interceptions with at least 3 td's on the day.
The Bengals home game 07, The Seahawks game, The St Louis game, The NY Giants game in 08, reasons to go with Anderson.
I truely believe Anderson can win a superbowl, and I think Quinn
When is someone going to hold Quinn accountable and ask him to actually win a game for once. He is the quarterback.
Am I missing something here? What has Quinn done except get drafted on the first day?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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We honestly should have had more than 6 wins last year.. However many we had.. lol..
A lot of the games we were up going into half... but just did not play a full 60 minutes...
I think that happened like 3 weeks in a row.. I know one team was the redskins... Even could have beat the Colts.. which is crazy... So I'm glad Mangini is making his players accountable, and teaching them that it is important to execute if you wanna be holding that Lombardi trophy sky high in February.
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Quote:
I agree.
I just find it funny that people talk about how great DA is with the long ball, yet I thought while he could throw it long, it was usually thanks to the receiver that it was a reception, and not an INT or incomplete pass. I only recall a few passes where DA put it on the money.
It's exciting when he puts it up, that is what makes games fun and edge of your seat thrills. But I have to be honest, when he put it up, I was more worried than excited.
I remember that there were interceptions b/c the WR let the ball bounce off their pads...
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Interesting thing about all this QB derby debate and who's leading and whatnot is that we just did this 2 years ago with Frye and Anderson, with Frye being the guy who started for a season and Anderson being the guy who only saw a couple games of action. After both were really crappy in the preseason and training camp the staff named Frye the winner of the competition. We all know how that one ended, so I think unless someone is clearly better in the preseason games you might as well start Quinn, see what he's got. Heck, we could start Anderson for a half in week one and then trade him if he does bad, worked before.
Also, I believe they say Quinn was "lights out" in this morning's session of practice which is encouraging news.
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Does anyone know when they are going to announce the starter? I read last night Mangini said today? Wasnt sure of a timeline
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Quote:
Does anyone know when they are going to announce the starter? I read last night Mangini said today? Wasnt sure of a timeline
starter for the season or preseason game1?
mangini has been consistent in saying that DA gets start #1 and Quinn gets start #2.....
so I imagine whoever starts game3 is the starter for the season (as game4 is usually not really used)
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i don't think that's true. mangini never named the starter for the green bay preseason game. what he said was he'd talk to the qbs today, then after he did so, he'll release that info.
what he said, which is somewhat aligned what you're saying, is the person who gets the start this week, the other person would get the start next week. people are suggesting that, because DA got most of the reps yesterday against the packer scount team, he'd start this week and quinn start at home against detroit. it's also speculated that makes sense because quinn would get the start at home.
to answer the original question, qb details haven't been released yet but we were supposed to get that today. no timeline was set, though.
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ah, ok.....my fault. I thought I had read that DA was announced the starter already....must have been a post here. sorry.
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no worries. glad to help clarify.
i think we'd get a small spike in posts when the starter for tomorrow's preseason game is officially named, though. lol
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He's the starter on the depth chart.
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they're co-starters on the depth chart.
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Looks like they changed the order on the official site. DA is listed ahead of Quinn.
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Quote:
mangini has been consistent in saying that DA gets start #1 and Quinn gets start #2.....
I didn't hear that, but it's not really a big deal. If that's the way it works, I have no issue with it.
It was in an article, I think the one about the No Huddle Offense, that he said he'd tell the guys today, I don't think I remember him quoted as saying he'd announce it to the press today?
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Quote:
Looks like they changed the order on the official site. DA is listed ahead of Quinn.
in that format, it'd be tough to convey what mangini wanted to. even on the browns site, the news says:
Quote:
Browns list co-starters at QB
Zac Jackson, Staff Writer
08.11.2009
The Browns released an unofficial depth chart Tuesday in advance of Saturday's preseason opener in Green Bay, and Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn are listed as co-starters as quarterback.
That's no surprise based on what's happened in camp thus far, and head coach Eric Mangini said the designation was made only because the team had to submit a depth chart for the game. He said he'll wait until later in the week to name a starter for this week and will probably give the starting nod to the quarterback who doesn't start this week for the Aug. 21 game against the Lions.
"Nothing's changed with the quarterbacks," Mangini said. "We had to submit a depth chart. I'll tell those guys before the game who will start, but I want to see how rest of this week goes.
"Whoever starts, the other guy is going to play and we'll probably flip it the next week. (Their work) will be equal in both games. I wanna see what both of them can do with live bullets."
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=9723
believe me, i'd have no problem with DA getting the start but i just want to make sure we have accurate info and not any half-truths.
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Quote:
Looks like they changed the order on the official site. DA is listed ahead of Quinn.
I think DA will win the comp. IMO he is more experienced and has a lot higher ceiling. Also, I think he has a better attitude than BQ.
I never liked the BQ pick, cuz I think he was way, way, way overhyped. His time might come, but I don't think it will be for at least another year.
DA showed a lot of poise the past two years. Even though we were a bad team last year, I thought that he performed right on par with the rest of the team. They all cracked under the pressure of being media darlings. Everyone UNDERachieved. As opposed to the year before when we all overachieved.
This year will probably balance everything out. And I think that we are finally starting to move in the right direction. Mangini has said he wants to run the ball effectively and stop the run. He has brought in a TON of bodies for the OL and DL, and I think that says that he knows what he is building here.
Give me the most experienced QB and lets start winning some games.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
I thought the original depth chart showed DA and BQ stacked in the starters column. I could be mistaken, however.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
you may be right. that would be news to me as i didn't look at the browns depth chart before and after the mangini announcement of co-starters.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,070
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,070 |
Speculate away. One of these guys is being led by the nose. The other is in the huddle first snap. I back BQ, because if it is still close with all if DA's opportunities, go with the youngster. I am not happy with our eventual starter is missing about half the reps he should get. Man/Genie is just trying to sidestep some festering too soon. I back the winner and root the good guys. But sooner rather than later so we can get serious. And for God's sake, don't "go with your gut" again. That was disastrous to Biblical proportions. Just sayin'. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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