DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum **Post Camp Reports Here II**

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BEREA - From the moment Kellen Winslow was traded to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, tight end became the most questionable area on the Browns' roster.

Winslow was many things - including a coach-killer at times - but he had rare talent for a player at his position. The key word in the preceding sentence is "had." The motorcycle accident May 1, 2005, and a series of surgeries on his right knee capped his potential at about 90 percent and raised questions concerning how long his body would hold up.

Despite it all, seeing No. 80 on the practice field in recent years had to be a source of comfort for the preceding coaching staff. He might have been a headache to the organization off the field, but there were times when he could be "the" offense when all else failed.

There were other reasons for coach Eric Mangini to be concerned about the position entering training camp. Steve Heiden, who's known for his blocking skills, had surgery on a torn anterior cruciate ligament last December. The other tight ends are Martin Rucker, Robert Royal, John Madsen and Aaron Walker.

None of them remind anyone of Winslow.

Royal, who signed after spending the previous three seasons with the Buffalo Bills, might have the best chance of the group to earn the starting spot. The seven-year veteran has 112 career receptions, including a single-season, career high 33 in 2008.

Royal, who recently turned 30, thinks his best football is ahead of him.

"I re-dedicated myself to the sport and tried to realize it's a great opportunity for me to be in the NFL," Royal said. "I felt there were some catches and plays I could have made last year, even though I had a career high. I'm always trying to improve each time I step out there."

Heiden opened camp wearing a red jersey, which meant he was off limits for contact because of the surgery. He's now practicing full go in what is shaping up as a close battle with Royal.

Royal doesn't have Heiden's blocking ability, which means he has to impress with his route running and hands. He's dropped a few passes, but he had a good day Friday.

"He caught a lot of balls in games that we played against him, both in New York and New England," Mangini said. "Drops in practices are things we make the team aware of. You can run a great route and have great protection and have a great throw, and all it takes is for a receiver to take his hands off the ball for one second and a great play could turn into into a foul ball."

The wild card in the mix is Rucker, who played tight end at Missouri, but in reality was more like a wideout. Rucker set the Missouri and Big 12 Conference record for career receptions by a tight end with 203.

Rucker's downside is his lack of blocking skills. He was rarely asked to block in Missouri's wide-open offense, and an injury suffered in the first preseason game last season didn't give him much of a chance to work on that facet of the game.

It will be interesting to watch Rucker in the four preseason games. If he can prove to be more than a 260-pound tight end with good hands, he could move ahead of Heiden and Royal.

"I feel like I've had a good camp in areas, and I feel like I have to improve in others," Rucker said. "Going to the NFL is the next level from college in itself, and when you come from a spread offense to a traditional tight end, it's another thing. There was a lot of stuff I had to adjust to."

Heiden is almost 33 and seems to be injured every season. Royal is younger, but he has to prove he can be a complete player, while Rucker is the kid with talent that needs to surface.

Put all three together, and you have Winslow.

mmclain@tribtoday.com

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* Braylon Edwards is actually upset that I picked the Browns to be the worst team in football in my spring Power Rankings. It amazes me what grates on players. A team goes 4-12, changes coaches, doesn't have a clear-cut quarterback, doesn't have a pass-rush ... and the Browns should be what? Fifteenth? Twentieth? Which reminds me: I have not had a soul in the game -- neither player nor club official or coach -- tell me I ranked their team too high. Next year, I've got a solution: I'm going to have a 32-way tie for first.

* I learned exclusively Sunday that Eric Mangini had the stomach flu on the day he interviewed with Cleveland owner Randy Lerner for the Browns' coaching job last November. He felt queasy on the drive to Lerner's Long Island home, and had to have his driver and brother-in-law pull over a couple of blocks from the house so he could throw up, twice. During a break in the meeting, Mangini used the bathroom and threw up a third time. And during the second half of the meeting, he asked Lerner to hold that thought ... while he threw up a fourth time.

That's what I call playing hurt.



*4:05 p.m. Sunday (Browns Family Day, Cleveland, Ohio): If autograph-signing won quarterback jobs, Brady Quinn would be a Hall of Famer. Now. For 65 minutes, he signed for the crowd of 14,000 attending the Brown-White Scrimmage at Cleveland Browns Stadium, and when he got back to the locker room after the scrimmage, most of his teammates were gone.

Nothing decided today in the scrimmage. Quinn threw a gorgeous, early touchdown, but still looks to have accuracy issues, and Derek Anderson threw a bad interception to D'Qwell Jackson at the goal line, ruining one drive.

I told Quinn he didn't look as frenetic in and around the pocket as he'd looked the last two years. Being frenetic doesn't help a quarterback be great; just ask Kyle Boller. Quinn told me he spent part of the offseason looking at all of Brady's 599 pass-drops in the 2007 season, trying to get a feel for his footwork and pocket presence. Good idea, and it's showing. Quinn looks calmer, which is good, and he's sucking in the knowledge from new offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, formerly with the Patriots, on all things Brady.

The Browns, however, were the first team I've been around this summer that I just didn't get a good vibe from. The players are still feeling out Eric Mangini, and more than a few think he's working them too hard.

Well, the Browns were 4-12 last year, fired the coach and GM, and need a new sheriff. That's what Mangini is trying to be.

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king is a complete moron for thinking it.

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hey!! that aint cool!!!







KING

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BEREA — By the end of Romeo Crennel’s run as head coach, much about the Browns was predictable.

As the second week of Camp Mangini begins, so much is new — and some of it surprising.

Much has been made of the ex-Jets factor, and there’s no doubt the new head coach has a connection with the current Browns who played for him in New York.

If you didn’t sense that already, you knew it Sunday by the inflection Eric Mangini used during a brief compliment to quarterback Brett Ratliff.

Someone asked Mangini specifically about Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson. Mangini elected to add a Ratliff compliment, smiling when he said, “I thought Ratty did a nice job.”

Mangini has impressed most observers for creating an atmosphere of fairness. In a way, he’s a latter-day Paul Brown, in that Brown’s players used to joke: “He treats us all the same ... like dogs..”

As for any ex-Jet bias, it’s worth noting that all seven of the captains who walked out for Sunday’s intrasquad coin flip played for the Browns last year.

Anderson was one of the captains on his team. Quinn was not, which was surprising to some.

Forget about Braylon Edwards going anywhere. He was a captain on Anderson’s team, has said he loves Mangini’s approach, and seemed chummy with Offensive Coordinator Brian Daboll as they walked to the locker room together after the game.

Anderson, Edwards, defensive end Corey Williams and safety Mike Adams were captains on one team. Williams’ inclusion was a reminder that he could be a big part of a turnaround, even though he was a disappointment as an expensive first-year Brown in 2008.

The first preseason game is against Williams’ old team Saturday night at Green Bay.

In Sunday’s intrasquad game, captains of the team quarterbacked by Quinn were nose tackle Shaun Rogers, offensive lineman Ryan Tucker and X-man Joshua Cribbs.

This was a reminder that Rogers is coming off a Pro Bowl year, Tucker isn’t retiring, and Cribbs has been Cribbs, despite contract anxiety.

Cribbs said afterward that, yes, he wants more money, but no, Browns fans sure don’t want to hear about money right now. On Sunday, he put on a show.

The event was touch football, and Cribbs was barely touched on a punt return that might have gone for a touchdown. In fact, he ran through the whistle, all the way to the end zone, where he playfully showed the football to fans cheering there.

As to Cribbs’ progress as a wideout, Anderson seems more comfortable throwing to him as training camp wears on. At the stadium, Cribbs meshed well with Quinn.

“Josh is an unbelievable athlete,” Quinn said. “You want to get the ball in his hands because he’s going to break tackles.”

Quinn said game rules prevented Cribbs from making hay. If they hadn’t been playing touch, Cribbs might have been gone after catching a slant against a tackler who had a bad angle but enough of one to lay his hand on No. 16.

As for surprises, here’s one more: Attendance wasn’t great Sunday.

Mangini has a ways to go before convincing the long-sufferers that new is better.

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As for surprises, here’s one more: Attendance wasn’t great Sunday.

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Tony Grossi's blog: Cleveland Browns quarterback Brett Ratliff gets reps with first team
by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter
Tuesday August 11, 2009, 12:31 PM
BEREA, Ohio ... Observations from the morning practice on Day 11 of training camp ...

• The first-team offense finally scored a touchdown in the two-minute drill. That's not even the big news. The quarterback leading the drive was Brett Ratliff, who is considered not to be in competition with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn. Coach Eric Mangini threw a bone to the former Jets free agent and Ratliff came through, moving the team 71 yards in less than a minute. The TD was a little tainted, though. Braylon Edwards one-handed a Ratliff pass thrown behind him, shook off Brandon McDonald and ran it about 30 yards to the end zone. McDonald let up, thinking Edwards should have been whistled down, but the officials let the TD stand. Ratliff threw behind Edwards on another play and also benefitted from a tipped pass on fourth down that Jerome Harrison caught for a first down. Ratliff did make a good throw on a sideline out to Edwards over McDonald. I'm not sure that this was the first time the No. 1 offense found the end zone in the two-minute, but there haven't been many successful drives on the practice field.

• Receiver Lance Leggett, who caught the Quinn TD pass in the Sunday team scrimmage, worked with trainers along with tight end John Madsen. Fullback Charles Ali returned to work in most drills, but left the field with a trainer three-quarters through. Receiver David Patten worked in some drills but also rode the stationary bike.

• With Syndric Steptoe out for the year, rookie cornerback Coye Francies took some reps at kick returner behind Josh Cribbs and Gerard Lawson.

• Former Michigan coach Lloyd Carr visited practice. Former Wolverine and Browns tight end Aaron Shea escorted him on the field. Mangini said Carr asked to come and he was welcome.

• Speaking of Michigan, Shaun Smith met with Detroit reporters this morning for the first time since his release from the Browns. Smith said that Browns nose tackle Shaun Rogers helped make his decision to sign with the Lions. "That's my best friend and he wishes he could come back here now. He misses it," Smith said.

• Mangini's first official depth chart was revealed. Some notable listings: Hank Fraley is the No. 1 center, Mike Furrey the No. 2 receiver. Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn are listed as co-starters. The o-line starters are Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Fraley, Floyd Womack and John St. Clair. The tight end is Robert Royal. On defense, Corey Williams and Kenyon Coleman are the starting ends, David Bowens and Kamerion Wimbley the outside linebackers. Mangini said he didn't spend a lot of time arranging the depth chart. It shouldn't be regarded as a complete evaluation of the roster at this point.

• The offense worked a lot on the running game in team drills.

• Cornerback Rod Hood intercepted Richard Bartel throwing for Mohamed Massaquoi in the two-minute drill.

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Former Michigan coach Lloyd Carr visited practice.

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With Syndric Steptoe out for the year, rookie cornerback Coye Francies took some reps at kick returner behind Josh Cribbs and Gerard Lawson.

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Didn't I read somewhere that Harrison was going to be getting in on this as well?

I'm of firm mind that we are ruining Cribbs's value on special teams w/ all the time he spends on offense. It also might bolster his desire for that big contract change.

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Speaking of Michigan, Shaun Smith met with Detroit reporters this morning for the first time since his release from the Browns. Smith said that Browns nose tackle Shaun Rogers helped make his decision to sign with the Lions. "That's my best friend and he wishes he could come back here now. He misses it," Smith said.

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Former Michigan coach Lloyd Carr visited practice.

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Can we get a new thread just for everyone who will complain about this?

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Who is going to complain?? Us Buckeye fans LOVVVVVVVVVVVVE Lloyd Carr. Even if he does look like Droopy Dawg


KING

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Didn't I read somewhere that Harrison was going to be getting in on this as well?

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I'm of firm mind that we are ruining Cribbs's value on special teams w/ all the time he spends on offense. It also might bolster his desire for that big contract change.

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I doubt that, it's more likely due to both QBs just not doing well.

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I doubt that, it's more likely due to both QBs just not doing well.

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Given the amount of multiple looks I've seen from the defense this camp...it could be a combination of both.

There has definitely been heat on the QB's this camp.

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I'm not setting my expectations high.

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I'm staying away from expectations all together.