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jc...
Went to both practices yesterday... D looks solid. O looks behind. Think I saw only 1-2 touchdowns the whole day of scrimmages. Quinn IMO is leading the race. Got the majority of the snaps it seemed like in the evening practice. And he looked the best of the two also. Did give a pick 6 to Wright though. Wright jumped a quick slant route that I think was a hot read. He read it and pounced. Some other notes...
- Furrey looks good. Quick good hands... Robo had a bad pitch to Furrey though on a double reverse that caused a turnover and a lap by both.
- Wimbley has a couple bull rush moves he is working on. Thomas and Heiden stuffed each attempt. But he blew up less talented players; Sowells and St Claire. He looks good IMO... should be a year closer to his rookie season.
- Frayley looks to be winning the Center competition for now. Mack just wasn't in alot.
- St Claire looks like a stiff IMO. Most players blew by him on the 1 on 1's. Even a nice move by rook Veikune.
- Cribbs will be heavily more involved in our passing game. Caught some nice passes, but missed Quinn's last one that would have kept the 2:00 drive alive. Instead it ended at maybe the other teams 30. Was a good play by the DB though for a jump ball.
- Anderson.. I thought looked horrible. Throws to nobody, holding on to the ball, bad reads, etc... Like I said earlier.. no way Brady doesn't get the nod IMO unless he has a terrible preseason.
- Hubbard has stone hands, and needs to keep his head up when IN/OUT of breaks. Maybe practice squad again.... def not ready for prime time.
That's all I can remember right now. Overall I came away less optimistic than I was before the practice. Though, this was my first TC since Garcia and B Davis camp. I just didn't get the vibe I was looking at something special. Hope I am wrong.
Last note, got Quinn's auto for my kid on his Quinn jearsey. Actually I handed it to the wife to fight through the crowd...
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You know, I need to comment on the QB competition based on what I've seen from the two practices I've been to and the scrimmage on Sunday...we'll probably see this again in the preseason.
It's hard to get a bead on who's winning because neither QB is getting enough reps, IMO. Neither one truly has a chance to develop a rhythm.
Everyone's ripping on Quinn's supposed lack of deep ball ability...honestly, how often does the deep ball come out in today's NFL? Rarely. This isn't the 70's or 1980 (I watched the Dave Logan game and couldn't believe how many times Sipe took unsuccessful shots downfield, a modern day coach would be POed).
If Quinn can show he can read a defense and coverages, he's gonna win this thing. Period. He has too many of those intangibles like huddle presence and ability to organize the huddle when the radio isn't working (I'll bet the radio not working was done purposely by Mangini to see how he'd handle it and he failed miserably).
Just my thoughts...I always think neither guy gets enough reps.
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Quote:
He has too many of those intangibles like huddle presence and ability to organize the huddle when the radio isn't working (I'll bet the radio not working was done purposely by Mangini to see how he'd handle it and he failed miserably).
Not for nothing, but you hear the same things about huddle presence about DA... Not sure what that all means except to say that it doesn't appear either guy is stepping up and taking control..
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The deep ball is any pass over 15 yards IMO. I'm uncertain if he has the arm to zip it in there, but mostly if he has the accuracy. Those posts and such are run often, and if you can't run them successfully, you're going to struggle, especially against the run.
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The deep ball is any pass over 15 yards IMO. I'm uncertain if he has the arm to zip it in there, but mostly if he has the accuracy. Those posts and such are run often, and if you can't run them successfully, you're going to struggle, especially against the run.
Quinn has PLENTY of arm. This fallacy that Quinn has a weak arm kills me.
He suffers next to Derek Anderson, no question about that, but everyone does. But he has enough velocity. This isn't "just enough arm" like Savage said about Charlie Frye...the armstrength is just fine.
Quinn hit a 50 yd. deep ball off his back foot last week. His arm is fine.
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Quote:
Quote:
He has too many of those intangibles like huddle presence and ability to organize the huddle when the radio isn't working (I'll bet the radio not working was done purposely by Mangini to see how he'd handle it and he failed miserably).
Not for nothing, but you hear the same things about huddle presence about DA... Not sure what that all means except to say that it doesn't appear either guy is stepping up and taking control..
I don't know what you're referring to. I've heard DA keeps the huddle "loose." Well that's all well a good, but what happens when it comes time to run the 2 minute drill? What about when the radio in the helmet goes out? DA doesn't come through in those situations. Quinn historically has in college and even in the chances he's had in the NFL (Denver game).
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The arm thing is absurd. The guy has plenty arm. I'd put his arm right up there with a guy like P. Manning. I'm no Quinn homer either. Does he have Mannings accuracy and smarts? No not yet... but arm? That is not a question in my book.
He needs to learn to take some chances to keep the D honest... and he needs to fix his accuracy issues from time to time. The first will be learned with experience and confidence. The second, I'm not sure it can be fixed. Not sure if its mental or something mechanical.
And Ammo - he at least got 65% of the throws yesterday in the afternoon scrimmage. Think I saw DA maybe throw 6-7 balls as apposed to Quinns 20. I think Mangini is starting to show who he thinks our starting QB is going to be.
You can expect Quinn to manage a game... and not lose it. I think Mangini likes that over DA's feast or famine. As Quinn gets experience... then comes the smarts and confidence to start exposing these defenses.
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Quote:
The arm thing is absurd. The guy has plenty arm. I'd put his arm right up there with a guy like P. Manning. I'm no Quinn homer either. Does he have Mannings accuracy and smarts? No not yet... but arm? That is not a question in my book.
He needs to learn to take some chances to keep the D honest... and he needs to fix his accuracy issues from time to time. The first will be learned with experience and confidence. The second, I'm not sure it can be fixed. Not sure if its mental or something mechanical.
And Ammo - he at least got 65% of the throws yesterday in the afternoon scrimmage. Think I saw DA maybe throw 6-7 balls as apposed to Quinns 20. I think Mangini is starting to show who he thinks are starting QB is going to be.
You can expect Quinn to manage a game... and not lose it. I think Mangini likes that over DA's feast or famine. As Quinn gets experience... then comes the smarts and confidence to start exposing these defenses.
Really I think Quinn needs to be brought along much like Philip Rivers was his first year starting.
Rivers sat for two years much like Quinn, Marty played some serious Martyball with him for about the first half of the season and then opened the O up near the end.
I believe we're gonna have the running game for that kind of approach this year...I'm not so sure if we'll have the defense though.
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I compare Quinn's arm to Peyton's, but without accuracy close to that, he might be in trouble. You can get away with a less than stellar arm with great accuracy.
And anyone can throw the ball 50 yards. Hell, I can throw it 40, and I've never played QB. Arm strength is about gunning it in there on a 20 yard slant. I question whether Quinn can do that with his combination of arm strength and accuracy.
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Thanks for the update barf...  ....I like your take. Well,..it takes the O a little longer to find their rythm and considering all the changes and total offensive collapse of last season maybe this should be expected right now. It's REALLY nice to hear all the positives coming from our D,..maybe the D is SO good that the development of our new O is being overly tested right now. Here's to wishful thinking... 
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Quote:
I compare Quinn's arm to Peyton's, but without accuracy close to that, he might be in trouble. You can get away with a less than stellar arm with great accuracy.
And anyone can throw the ball 50 yards. Hell, I can throw it 40, and I've never played QB. Arm strength is about gunning it in there on a 20 yard slant. I question whether Quinn can do that with his combination of arm strength and accuracy.
needed to quote this just to emphasizß the point because it's exactly the concern.
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I don't really get this line of thinking...
Quinn is accurate it seems (judging from limited NFL starts and his college career) 90% of the time. But then gets wild on throws he should make. A ball moving 55 mph vs a ball moving 60 mph at a DB is going to be picked irregardless. I would understand you if his passes on a 15-20 yrd out floated (ala Charlie Fry). But they don't... they're on a rope. Sometimes that rope might be on the WR back shoulder, over his head, etc instead of in front of him. This and only this is my concern with Quinn.
Quinn reminds me much of a Eli Manning a few years ago. Eli had some of the same problems and questions... and he has since developed into a super bowl qb.
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you may not get the line of thinking but all indications from camp is BQ has been very innacurrate. he's throw behind his receivers regularly, as well as overthrowing and underthrowing. if his knock was he'd miss wide open players in college, then naturally things would be tougher in the nfl. i just hope he improves.
if anyone on our team is closer to eli, it'd be DA.
can't wait for preseason so we can see what our guys can do.
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Quote:
The deep ball is any pass over 15 yards IMO. I'm uncertain if he has the arm to zip it in there, but mostly if he has the accuracy. Those posts and such are run often, and if you can't run them successfully, you're going to struggle, especially against the run.
15 yards?? Dang I can hurl it then...
My opinion is the deep ball is anything over 30 yards...15 yards IMO is intermediate...
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Same difference. Either way, I doubt Quinn's ability in anything over that distance. I like Quinn, but I'm not optimistic based on what I've seen in camp the past two years. Even in games last year, he wasn't impressive.
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We have not 1 good QB!!!!!! back up yes! but starter?....lol
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More and more I fear that may be the case. I'm still optimistic about Quinn, but my optimism is starting to dwindle.
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I believe that you don't necessarily need a stellar quarterback to have a good NFL team. You just need someone who doesn't lose the game for you.
Yeah, it's nice to have a Manning or Brady. But those are few and far between. I'd be perfectly comfortable with a guy who only throws for 200 yards a game, maybe a TD a game, but who doesn't turn the ball over and who keeps control.
Every offensive series taking up a ton of clock and marching downfield 4 yards at a time sounds just great to me.
Would I like to have a standout QB? Hell yeah. But I just don't see it as "necessary."
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I agree. We don't need a star QB, but it would be nice. Of course, if you don't have a star, you need a good offense. We seem to have neither if camp reports are correct. We could be very, very screwed.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Yeah, if our offense looks anything like it did last year, we're in big trouble.
I'm hoping that a QB will set himself apart so we can start getting some flow. I have to think that our offense's struggles in camp have to be somewhat attributable to the fact that it's constantly changing. Getting that continuity has to help.
If it comes down to it, I hope that we can at least establish a running game. If we're not going to be flashy, I'd at least like to stay on the field for a little bit to give our defense a break.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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i agree that you don't need a "star qb" though any player on the team needs to fundamentally be able to do their main responsibilities. would you want a kicker who can't kick accurately or kick far? at the very least, a qb needs to be able to throw a ball where he wants it to go and that's the least any nfl team needs out of his qb. if he happens to be top 5 in completion, or reading defenses, or whatever, that's certainly a plus but it's not asking too much to be able to complete a pass past 15 yards (for quinn) or to be able to complete a pass under 5 yards (for DA). let's hope they both improve and i still have some hope but realistically, it's possible mangini is hoping for ratliff in 2010 or drafting...like tim tebow, lol. use the spread, mangini!
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To counter your argument let's take a look at the last 6 Super Bowls.
2009: Pittsburgh Steelers (Ben Roethlisberger 11th overall pick, 1 pro bowl, 0 MVP's) defeat Arizona Cardinals (Kurt Warner UDFA, 4 pro bowls, 2 MVP's)
2008: New York Giants (Eli Manning 1st overall pick, 1 pro bowl, 0 MVP's) defeat New England Patriots (Tom Brady 6th round draft pick, 4 pro bowls, 1 MVP)
2007: Indianapolis Colts (Peyton Manning 1st overall pick, 9 pro bowls, 3 MVP's) defeat Chicago Bears (Kyle Orton with nothing good)
2006: Pittsburgh Steelers (Ben Roethlisberger, already listed) defeat Seattle Seahawks (Matt Hasslebeck 6th round draft pick, 3 pro bowls, 0 MVP's)
2005: New England Patriots (Tom Brady, already listed) defeat Philadelphia Eagles (Donovan McNabb 2nd overall pick, 5 pro bowls, 0 MVP's)
That's as far back as I'm going to go (mostly because the next few didn't have great QB's  ). Of course, there are a few teams such as the 2006 Bears, 2003 Buccaneers, 2002 Patriots, and 2001 Ravens that didn't have great, or even good quarterbacks. But that is 1/3 of the sample size that I chose to use. Most of the time you need at least a pretty darn good QB to be successful.
2004: New England Patriots (Tom Brady, already listed) defeat Carolina Panthers (Jake Delhomme UDFA, 1 pro bowl, 0 MVP's)
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J/C..
Question to all? How many ppl realy, truely, think we have a legitmate QB?...not trying to start a fight, but just wanting to know.
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Um, how could anyone think we do based on what we have seen? If we had a proven or "legitimate" QB we wouldn't have a competition year after year. It's that simple.
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Maybe I should have went that route? 
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We do have a legit QB. Probably 2 of them. DA already proved he was in 2007. Did he have problems in 08? Yeah. But so did the entire offense (Jamal not the same, Braylon's drops, injuries). But he's proven he CAN be a pro bowl QB. Quinn has yet to prove that, but it's probable that he could do so with a offense that performs.
So much controversey about which QB. The whole thing comes down to a RB making the right reads, WRs not dropping balls, and the OLine actually blocking well. What's that called?....I know the word is there....hm.....Oh yeah! Teamwork.
KeysDawg
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LOL!...nice post  ..And T/Y 4 the response.
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I think there's a difference between a *star* QB and one who can do his job.
I'm saying you don't NEED a star QB. What you NEED is someone who can perform the job. Now, it's great when you do have a star QB because, by definition, he's doing his job at a very high level.
I'm just saying you don't have to have a QB who is at that high level. You just need one who isn't going to perform at a low level.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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DA already proved he was in 2007.
LMAO. No he didn't, you people absolutely floor me with your belief that after a brief stint of a perfect storm that you think this guy is legit. We have no idea if either of these QBs are based on their performances so far.
I thought it would be a stupid poll because the majority would way no. Once again, I'm amazed by our fans.
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are you disagreeing with me agreeing with you? lol like i said, i agree you don't need a star qb and i said, you just need someone who can fundamentally do their job. to expand though, if you have that qb who is doing their job, they'd probably end up being a star qb anyways.
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Sorry, I watched the games and saw how he did. I saw that he made some good reads and some bad reads. I saw that when his receivers didn't drop so many (and I'm not talking about Braylon alone, I mean all of them) he looked good. Especially when Jamal had a good game and the teams couldn't just pin their ears back.
I would love to see the Oline deliver like we saw that year. I think we all would agree with that.
I think some folks just want to see certain players fail. (not naming you Jules, but I think we can all figure out who they are on the board and in the general populace).
KeysDawg
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Quote:
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DA already proved he was in 2007.
LMAO. No he didn't, you people absolutely floor me with your belief that after a brief stint of a perfect storm that you think this guy is legit. We have no idea if either of these QBs are based on their performances so far.
I thought it would be a stupid poll because the majority would way no. Once again, I'm amazed by our fans.
I think we can get a pretty good grasp on DA just from the preseason. If he's the same QB he was at the end of 2007, in 2008 and is again showing the same mistakes, then we know exactly what we have.
Brady should, at the very least, should be able to start about 10 games this year before we really know what we have in him.
you had a good run Hank.
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jc... I think too many are putting too much stock in our offenses current state. It's a new offense, new coordinator, new head coach. They are starting from scratch are only 12 days in. It takes time to learn and gel a whole new play book. Now if by week 2 of preseason they haven't improved from day 1, then I'll worry. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I think there's a difference between a *star* QB and one who can do his job.
I'm saying you don't NEED a star QB. What you NEED is someone who can perform the job. Now, it's great when you do have a star QB because, by definition, he's doing his job at a very high level.
I'm just saying you don't have to have a QB who is at that high level. You just need one who isn't going to perform at a low level.
And with this in mind, Mangini will turn the city on its ear by starting his boy Ratliff which ends the whole BQ DA thingy. 
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To counter your argument let's take a look at the last 6 Super Bowls.
2009: Pittsburgh Steelers (Ben Roethlisberger 11th overall pick, 1 pro bowl, 0 MVP's) defeat Arizona Cardinals (Kurt Warner UDFA, 4 pro bowls, 2 MVP's)
2008: New York Giants (Eli Manning 1st overall pick, 1 pro bowl, 0 MVP's) defeat New England Patriots (Tom Brady 6th round draft pick, 4 pro bowls, 1 MVP)
2007: Indianapolis Colts (Peyton Manning 1st overall pick, 9 pro bowls, 3 MVP's) defeat Chicago Bears (Kyle Orton with nothing good)
2006: Pittsburgh Steelers (Ben Roethlisberger, already listed) defeat Seattle Seahawks (Matt Hasslebeck 6th round draft pick, 3 pro bowls, 0 MVP's)
2005: New England Patriots (Tom Brady, already listed) defeat Philadelphia Eagles (Donovan McNabb 2nd overall pick, 5 pro bowls, 0 MVP's)
That's as far back as I'm going to go (mostly because the next few didn't have great QB's ). Of course, there are a few teams such as the 2006 Bears, 2003 Buccaneers, 2002 Patriots, and 2001 Ravens that didn't have great, or even good quarterbacks. But that is 1/3 of the sample size that I chose to use. Most of the time you need at least a pretty darn good QB to be successful.
2004: New England Patriots (Tom Brady, already listed) defeat Carolina Panthers (Jake Delhomme UDFA, 1 pro bowl, 0 MVP's)
Is Eli really a star QB? He is an above average QB who got really hot for about 6 weeks (during that time, yes he was a star QB)....and who fell back to Earth last season.
Is Roeth really a star QB? HIs worst statistical years were the 2 seasons that Pitt won the superbowl....though I would argue that 2007 he was a star QB.
Here's what I think you need in a QB to compete at the highest level consistently:
1. A QB that will not lose the game for you in the first 3 quarters.
2. A QB that is able to win the game for you in the 4th quarter when necessary.
#gmstrong
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Is Roeth really a star QB?
Not by a mile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote:
I think there's a difference between a *star* QB and one who can do his job.
I'm saying you don't NEED a star QB. What you NEED is someone who can perform the job. Now, it's great when you do have a star QB because, by definition, he's doing his job at a very high level.
I'm just saying you don't have to have a QB who is at that high level. You just need one who isn't going to perform at a low level.
Is a "Star QB" still a "Star QB" if the team around him fails to execute their parts?
Where does "Star QB" begin and end vs. the team around him actually doing their part and thus making the QB look like a "Star"?
A QB doesn't play at a high level without the other parts playing at a high level.
Without question, if our OLine does what we know it can do, and our WR's do their jobs and if we have success at RB... either one of our QB's will look like "Stars".... and we'll still whine about him and want to see the backup, instead.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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