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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12061209Donte' Stallworth suspended without pay for season Aug. 13, 2009 NEW YORK (AP) -Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte' Stallworth has been suspended without pay for the 2009 season after pleading guilty to DUI manslaughter. The NFL announced Thursday that Stallworth will be reinstated after the Super Bowl. The 28-year-old Stallworth struck and killed a pedestrian while driving under the influence of alcohol March 14 in Miami. He pleaded guilty to the second-degree felony June 16 and was suspended indefinitely by commissioner Roger Goodell two days later. Stallworth was given a 30-day jail sentence and reached an undisclosed financial settlement with Mario Reyes' family. Police said Stallworth had spent the night drinking at a Miami Beach club. He had a blood-alcohol level of .126, above Florida's .08 legal limit. Copyright 2009 by STATS LLC and The Associated Press. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of STATS LLC and The Associated Press is strictly prohibited.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Can't say I'm surprised by this, really. It's just a tragic situation through and through.
I hope Stallworth can get his life in order and contribute in 2010. I doubt it will be here, but I hope he can catch on somewhere.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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Here's an important question: Are we getting a roster spot exemption or does he still count as a player on our '80'?
It would doubly suck if we're already entering the season only allowed to carry 79.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Since he is suspended by the league, I believe he does not count against our total roster. If the team would have suspended him, then he would count against.
I'm pretty sure that is how it works.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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I actually have a problem with this. Why does Goodell think he is better than the legal system...I know the legal system isn't perfect by it is still does its job.
I just have a problem with someone thinking they can hand out justice when the legal system already has. I could care less if Stallworth plays for us, I just don't like the principle of the matter. If a man has served the time that our court system has decided upon, then he shouldn't be punished again. It reminds me of ex post facto or double jeopardy.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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Your opinion certainly holds some weight. Hey, in the end, he also has to live with the fact that he took a guy's life. I'm not sure there'd be a punishment severe enough for me that would ever let me forget that.
But, double jeopardy only applies when it comes to crimes. You can't be charged twice for the same crime. OJ was found not guilty of murder. They can't go back and try him again and hope there's new evidence or hope to get a new jury.
Ex Post Facto just means you can't be punished for something that is illegal now but that wasn't illegal at the time you did it. The big one on this currently is not allowing sex offenders to live within a certain distance of a school. There are a lot of challenges now because that law is relatively recent. So, people who are sex offenders who lived legally by a school suddenly live somewhere illegally. I'm not trying to stir up a debate on the subject, just giving a situation that's a current argument.
Employment is a whole other ball of wax. An employer has a ton of rights. Now, Stallworth does have Union representation. But, I have to think that the Collective Bargaining Agreement does have sort of "character" provisions that allow the Commissioner to decide things like this.
So, as long as Goodell's actions aren't in violation of the CBA, then this is perfectly lawful. Does that mean it's right? That's up for debate.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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There are criminal punishments and then there are those imposed by society. Just like in the Mike Vick case. He's not being banned for life, he's just being suspended.
Personally, I find the suspension appropriate.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Tell me what would be the backlash/outcry if Goodell didn't do anything?
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If you want to play in this league & make millions of dollars playing a game, then you play by THEIR rules: http://nflplayers.com/images/fck/NFL%20Personal%20Conduct%20Policy%202008.pdfIf you can't agree to that, then you don't play in the NFL. The person has a choice. Yes, the NFL under Goodell is trying to hold their players to a higher regard, as they should. You kill a guy, then sit out a year w/o pay to think about your actions.
Last edited by CDawg; 08/13/09 11:11 AM.
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Quote:
But, double jeopardy only applies when it comes to crimes.
But being punished for the same crime is fair? Yeah I know what Ex Post and Double Jep. mean it just reminds me of the same kind of unfairness. Besides if you read between the lines you realize that Double Jeopardy was to prevent people from being punished twice for the same crime, so technically it does fit.
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There are criminal punishments and then there are those imposed by society. Just like in the Mike Vick case. He's not being banned for life, he's just being suspended.
Society? Really? When was the last time Society got something right? I mean the same society at one point thought the world was flat? and Britney Spears was not crazy? I mean if you really think Society is healthy or always right....I don't know what to say.
I never said it wasn't lawful what I am saying is why does Goodell think he is above our legal system.
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Because playing in the NFL is a privilege not a right.
Privileges can be taken away at any time.
Rights.....not so much.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Because playing in the NFL is a privilege not a right.
Privileges can be taken away at any time.
Rights.....not so much.
Depends on what you define as "Privileges". Since when is working to make a living not a right?
Also this punishment negatively affects the family of the man who was killed. If my memory serves me correctly they take a cut of whatever Stallworth makes per year. Him not making any money is certainly not going to help the victim.
Go Browns!!
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Actually, I believe, he paid them up front out of the bonus money we had paid him the day before.
Also, he can play football (and earn a living) in the UFL or CFL if he wants to earn a living that way. Or he could get a real job. The NFL is a privilege not a right.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
Actually, I believe, he paid them up front out of the bonus money we had paid him the day before.
Also, he can play football (and earn a living) in the UFL or CFL if he wants to earn a living that way. Or he could get a real job. The NFL is a privilege not a right.
So wait if the NFL is a "privilege" why isn't the UFL or CFL a "privilege" too? They all play football? They all pay their players?
Here let me try your tactic: the NFL is a right, not a privilege...
Also I am almost 100% sure that the settlement awarded the Reyes family from any future earnings of Stallworth. I can't find the article on the net tho.
Go Browns!!
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Quote:
Since when is working to make a living not a right?
Never has been nor should it be.
The judgement of the court system is seperate from the employer. Many employers would simply have fired his ass, which is completely their right.
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Quote:
Quote:
Because playing in the NFL is a privilege not a right.
Privileges can be taken away at any time.
Rights.....not so much.
Depends on what you define as "Privileges". Since when is working to make a living not a right?
Also this punishment negatively affects the family of the man who was killed. If my memory serves me correctly they take a cut of whatever Stallworth makes per year. Him not making any money is certainly not going to help the victim.
You choose to work where you want. And by doing so, you agree to work by any and all rules that company or organization has in place.
This is not about funding the victim's family lifestyle, it's about punishing a guy for violating the rules he agreed to uphold when he joined the NFL. You break rules, you pay the price. He broke the rules, and now he's paying.
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That's just silly. This has nothing at all to do with his Rights... nothing at all. This is about breach of his contract's personal conduct clause. Quote:
Since when is working to make a living not a right?
Since the beginning of the United States of America.
You could argue that you have the Right to pursue work, but not that you have a right to work. Either way, neither one is guaranteed or implied by the Constitution.
And, even if you did have a "Right to work" as you want to believe, there is no way in hell that anyone could argue that you have a Right to work in the industry of your choosing. I'm pretty damned certain that Stallworth is perfectly free, within the constraints of his contract with the NFL & NFLPA, to seek employment at any 7-Eleven, bricklayers union or whatever else he may choose to pursue as his career.
You have a Right to pursue work, but you are privileged to get a job.... and you are most certainly privileged to get a job that pays you millions of dollars a year.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Never has been nor should it be.
The judgement of the court system is seperate from the employer. Many employers would simply have fired his ass, which is completely their right.
His employeers are the NFL teams not Roger Goodell...Be honest do you really think if Stallworth was available this season he wouldn't be playing for a team? I will bet you any amount of money you have he would be playing for a team in the NFL this year if able. So really his employers still want him, just the NFL Nazi has decided his justice is better than American Justice.
This is not about punishment, this is about why does a man feel he is better than America.
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Quote:
Since the beginning of the United States of America.
You could argue that you have the Right to pursue work, but not that you have a right to work. Either way, neither one is guaranteed or implied by the Constitution.
And, even if you did have a "Right to work" as you want to believe, there is no way in hell that anyone could argue that you have a Right to work in the industry of your choosing. I'm pretty damned certain that Stallworth is perfectly free, within the constraints of his contract with the NFL & NFLPA, to seek employment at any 7-Eleven, bricklayers union or whatever else he may choose to pursue as his career.
You have a Right to pursue work, but you are privileged to get a job.... and you are most certainly privileged to get a job that pays you millions of dollars a year.
I agree to a certain extent, however, I want to make this extremely clear.
My problem is with Goodell, not the punishment as much.
Go Browns!!
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Okay Loki... To be fair...
If I'm working at Wal-Mart, and I get a DUI, and that Wal-Mart wants to fire me, but another Wal-Mart says "We'll hire you", but then their corporate office says "You can't hire that guy".
Isn't that the same thing as what Goodell is doing?
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I'd say that's a great comparison.
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Say you have a company vehicle that you agreed to only use for company business.
Then you get caught after hours with a DUI.
You don't think the company is going to hand down punishment, even though the law already has?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Okay Loki... To be fair...
If I'm working at Wal-Mart, and I get a DUI, and that Wal-Mart wants to fire me, but another Wal-Mart says "We'll hire you", but then their corporate office says "You can't hire that guy".
Isn't that the same thing as what Goodell is doing?
That is a private matter and unless you brought it up Wal-Mart wouldn't know. Most of the time a 1st time DUI isn't a felony and is a misdemeanor. As far as I know you aren't required to report a misdemeanor to your employeer.
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Quote:
Say you have a company vehicle that you agreed to only use for company business.
Then you get caught after hours with a DUI.
You don't think the company is going to hand down punishment, even though the law already has?
That's comparing apples to cars. I wish people would read my posts for what they are and not to post.
I have stated several times all though I don't agree with the punishment that isn't where my problem lies. It lies with a man thinking he is better than America.
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It's not that different.
You agreed not to use the car for personal purposes, you violated that agreement.
The law is going to punish you, as the company is going to probably take your car away or even fire you.
You not only broke the law, but you broke an agreement (like the conduct clause) with the company.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 08/13/09 11:57 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
It's not that different.
Yeah actually it is. Since when do Cars=Football teams? In my opinion analogies never work cause they try to compare 2 totally different things. In order to figure things out there always needs to be context and you lost a lot of context when you do analogies.
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None of these scenarios people are throwing at you make a bit of difference. It is up to the employer, it doesn't matter who is in charge, and they have every right to act as they see fit. Again, at many companies he would have been outright fired. He isn't doing anything many other employers don't do, and they don't think they are "better than America", whatever in the hell that means. 
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Grass is green.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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The league is a private corporate company (with Green Bay being the only exception). They have rules that dictate what you can and cannot due in order to be employed by them. Just as any company does. If you violate those private rules, the company is fully within its rights to determine additional punishment in addition to whatever civil and/or criminal punishments you may receive.
Goodell isn't above the law, he is IN ADDITION to the law. It's his job to oversee the company and it's employees.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Quote:
Quote:
Okay Loki... To be fair...
If I'm working at Wal-Mart, and I get a DUI, and that Wal-Mart wants to fire me, but another Wal-Mart says "We'll hire you", but then their corporate office says "You can't hire that guy".
Isn't that the same thing as what Goodell is doing?
That is a private matter and unless you brought it up Wal-Mart wouldn't know. Most of the time a 1st time DUI isn't a felony and is a misdemeanor. As far as I know you aren't required to report a misdemeanor to your employeer.
Okay. DUI Manslaughter is a felony, isn't it?
Therefore the NFL had to know. Therefore the NFL can suspend him, fire him, whatever they want.
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Thank you.
Goodell did not put a football suspension on him. He suspended him from his "company", the NFL. If the CFL wants to let him play there, then that's fine. But Goodell is in charge of the NFL, and has every right to suspend someone.
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Quote:
He isn't doing anything many other employers don't do, and they don't think they are "better than America", whatever in the hell that means.
Goodell is trying to hand out his own justice. He thinks his justice is better than America's.
People need to stop comparing this to everyday life, as Pro Sports aren't everyday life. Look if you think that everyone in the NFL is Saints you are crazy. Jamal Lewis, Ray Lewis, Most of the Bengals..etc have been on trial or went to jail. The NFL is full of criminals. That's why most of the other comparisons don't work in this situation.
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Ok loki, I'll try to explain...
I work in an At Will State. I can be fired for anything so long as I am not fired for reasons that would than violate a contract agreement between me and my employer, so long as I'm not fired for anything that would violate state and/or federal laws, violate the bill of rights, or violate the constitution.
Meaning...lets say I go out drinking and end up on the news for a crime. (MUCH like Stallworth) My current employer has the right to fire my behind. It is perfectly legal and happens in ALL avenues so long as you live in a state that allows such pratices. And since the NFL stretches across many states...than Goodell has every right to do what he has been doing.
If you do not like what Goodell is doing...than you do not like the American way of life that is granted to him.
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Quote:
Thank you.
Goodell did not put a football suspension on him. He suspended him from his "company", the NFL. If the CFL wants to let him play there, then that's fine. But Goodell is in charge of the NFL, and has every right to suspend someone.
Are you thanking me? I'm sort of confused...Did I admit something I don't know of?
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But, football isn't real life. LMAO. I'm just going to leave this one shaking my head and laughing. 
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Quote:
Quote:
Thank you.
Goodell did not put a football suspension on him. He suspended him from his "company", the NFL. If the CFL wants to let him play there, then that's fine. But Goodell is in charge of the NFL, and has every right to suspend someone.
Are you thanking me? I'm sort of confused...Did I admit something I don't know of?
Look at who he was replying to
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Quote:
Quote:
He isn't doing anything many other employers don't do, and they don't think they are "better than America", whatever in the hell that means.
Goodell is trying to hand out his own justice. He thinks his justice is better than America's.
People need to stop comparing this to everyday life, as Pro Sports aren't everyday life. Look if you think that everyone in the NFL is Saints you are crazy. Jamal Lewis, Ray Lewis, Most of the Bengals..etc have been on trial or went to jail. The NFL is full of criminals. That's why most of the other comparisons don't work in this situation.
Noone said everyone in the NFL is a saint. But you are still accountable for your actions. And if your actions reflect poorly on the NFL, then you can and will be punished. Goodell has made that abundantly clear since he's taken over from Tagliabue. He's used a heavy hand when it comes to those who run afoul of the law.
He has the right as governed by the by-laws of the organization he runs. You don't like them? Work somewhere else. No one is forcing anyone to play football. These guys all went to college and have alternate paths they can choose to pursue.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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I have no problem with the suspension.. None..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dude not only did Donte kill another human being, he tested positive for marijuana, and he is already in the NFL substance abuse program. Stallworth should be happy it wasn't longer, but you need to look at the whole picture donte had bad marks against him already so the whole scenario comes into play not just the driving manslaughter issue.
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All Pro
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Quote:
Goodell is trying to hand out his own justice. He thinks his justice is better than America's.
Goodell can suspend players for activity that is perfectly legal. It is not illegal to celebrate excessively, make obscene gestures, or be caught at a strip club. If he wants, he can suspend you.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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