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It has been said by some in the media, that this could be RAC last year with the Browns if the team does not show a big improvement. This may or may not be true, but if he wanted to give himself some protection, would not drafting a top QB do just that? The media would have the Great QB Hope to focus on, and not RAC and the FO as much, and it’s the perfect scapegoat. “Well (said QB) did well and is improving, but come on, this is his first year in the NFL, next year we will have something great.†The FO could say. RAC would not be held up to as such a high standard, and might just get one more year. jmho
Even though I think RAC had a very bad year, I still hope he is able to stay for the next 2 years or more. I think the media and fans, just might give a pass to RAC and his new QB if we have another bad year (with the holes we have it would take a miracle not to  ).
Could they be thinking the same thing?
Last edited by DawgFace; 02/01/07 02:17 PM.
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I think firing RAC or Savage would be a mistake. They should get their four years to put a decent product on the field.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
I think firing RAC or Savage would be a mistake. They should get their four years to put a decent product on the field.
I don't think the media would make that easy for the Browns to do, without something else as a good story maker
Go Browns !!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
I think firing RAC or Savage would be a mistake. They should get their four years to put a decent product on the field.
I don't think the media would make that easy for the Browns to do, without something else as a good story maker
A FO, should never listen to fans, or media.
JMO
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The Phil and RAC plan is a 5 year plan.
I cant stress enough, how much the drafts from 99-2003 still hanut this franchise.
I would think that compared to other teams, that we have just over half of what the league average is when it comes to draft picks on the roster.
As impatient, tortured, football crazy as we die-hard are for this team, we understand it will take some time.
That doesnt mean RAC didnt have a bad year. He certainly did. Enough in fact to warrant his dismisaal if he cant get the job done. With a team like the current browns, I would think that if RAC showed that he could win a game on gameplanning and adjustments it would go along way to instilling more confidence in him. Instead we get a coach who has the demeanor of a tortise.
If taking a QB gets RAC more time I wont be upset, he has alot of learning to do too. I just get surprised when I see him look like a inexperienced coach on the sidelines instead of a guy with over 20 years in the league.
I do not think a QB is the plan but at the #3 or 4 position we have to consider the option if it presents itself to us. Regardless of whether or not it is the plan, it is a a very real possibility.
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A new QB won't help... Why, because if we keep losing, the press will blame Savage, Carthon and RAC for not going to a new QB sooner, for going with the "Local boy makes good experiment" in the first place. One bad mistake after another... If there is any hope to save RAC's job, the Browns need to continue to build from the foundation...up.
We don't need David Klinger, and Akilli Smith... Drafting QB after QB didn't help Cincy, and it won't help Cleveland. We just finished year two of a foundation up rebuild, and there is still work to be done. Let's get the foundation, then trade up for a "REAL" franchise QB.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Let's get the foundation, then trade up for a "REAL" franchise QB.
very true good point
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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A new QB would probably buy Romeo another year. It most certainly would buy Savage another year (but I think Savage will be around regardless).
Under that scenario, Romeo would be gone only if the defense stays the same with the impending talent infusion, and certain coaching decisions are made which confuse everyone.
But if we start the year with a vet or Frye, you can bet that if the Browns suck next year, Romeo will take the fall. We've seen too many "3 year turnarounds," most notably the 2-14 Bengals who went to the playoffs in year 3 under Marvin Lewis, that if we don't see a dramatic improvement, Romeo will be outski.
But, if a rookie is starting, that buys time because of the rookie QB excuse.
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If they did that and it ever came to light, I'd campaign to have them both fired.. It's not very smart to hire or fire a guy with the sole purpose of prolonging your job... It's better if you just DO your job right and let the chips fall where they may.. Sometimes I think us fans forget something.. for Coachs and GMs etc... it just isn't like it is for working stiffs like 99.9% of the fans out there.,, We fans have to work for a living, some of us I"m sure are living paycheck to paycheck... But for RAC and Savage, I'm betting they have a "golden parachute" arrangment that allows them to walk away and frankly, never work again if they don't want to... Look at Butch Davis,,, I won't get into whether or not he was fired,,, doesn't matter, either way, he walked away with the balance of his contract.... something like 12 million,, I don't know about you guys, But I could retire on that money 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No, a new QB will not save RAC, it will merely delay it. However, a good OLine that can protect whatever QB is back there would save RAC. (at least for a few more years)
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Quote:
The Phil and RAC plan is a 5 year plan.
I cant stress enough, how much the drafts from 99-2003 still hanut this franchise.
I agree completely. Turning around the Browns was/is a mammoth task. When I saw that RAC was hired to a 5-year contract, I assumed that meant he had four years to get this team headed in the right direction and that the first 2-3 would be a bumpy ride while he and Savage re-tooled a roster lacking talent and while RAC learned how to be a HC.
I don't think RAC is looking for a scapegoat to hide behind (whether or not the Browns select and start a QB at 3/4 in this year's draft). I remember him telling the media that they'd be talking to a different guy down the road if he ultimately proved unable get this team to win games. I don't think excuse-making is part of Romeo's makeup.
I don't think Romeo needs "saving." Ultimately, I think RAC will get his first four years to make progress. If things are looking up in his fourth season, expect the Browns to extend him by a year or two to avoid the "lame duck" discussions that always crop up when a coach enters the final year of his contract.
Time will tell.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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If the new QB was a superstar & took the team to the super bowl.......Theres a slim chance of that happening...Wouldn`t complain if it did...
Win games...Especially in our division...Thats a start..
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No....but a Few New O-linemen would.... 
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firing opie would be a mistake, i'm not so sure getting rac would. he hasn't shown flashes of being a great coach, i'm not sure another body could do worse, i do think someone could do better... I still think Cowher/Ferentz/Fisher/Chud, yes i said Chud is a possibilty next year. If the offense does good, I could see Chud being our coach ala mangini. Mangini was a young assistant for a long time, then an Coordiinator for 1 year and then the big time. maybe just maybe, we could be lucky like that.
![[Linked Image from img413.imageshack.us]](http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4226/bentleysigpo1.jpg) Hurry Back LeCharles.
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If Fisher/Young/Titans do what they did last year, or better, forget getting Fisher. Besides, RAC and Phil have a 5 year plan so give them 5 years.
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5 YEARS!!! the 1st two years went by pretty fast... seems like RAC was just hired...
I think a fire defense and a new RB could save RAC... Frye is still learning.. in the 80's.. QB's got to grow w'/ the game.. now days its put up or shut up... Build the team with the QB already set..
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Nah, a QB doesn't save RAC's job. In order for RAC to succeed, Opie has to get him more talent that can start right away. A rookie QB is Frye all over again, and that won't win us more games.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I understand your train of thought, but I think that the opposite might be true. RAC and Savage might think "We must win now, and we don't have time to wait for a rookie develop." - It is this reasoning which leads me to believe that Oakland will take a qb, but Detroit will not.
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Quote:
No....but a Few New O-linemen would....
I would love have O-line that is the top 5, hell top 10 would be great too. I am not looking at cutting Frye or make a statement on who we should draft.(This is not the Draft forum) I am looking at how the media and fan are getting so frustrated over not winning, that it feels like they are now looking for RAC to fail. If they are, anything he does will get picked on. jmho
This is the exact thing Phil talked about on his first day with the Browns as GM, that Cleveland has "can fail" attitude that needs to be changed. I just don't see a 8-8 record from this team next year, and would 7-9 be good enough to call off the dogs? maybe, but 6-10 and this is most likely would cause most to just dump everything on RAC.
Also would getting a top LT and a really good guard drafted really help this year, not likely, so the 6-10 record would come even with a new OL of top draft picks. This is why I think a new QB with top OL drafts might be just the ticket. RAC could be building the team over the needed 4 to 5 years and still have a scapegoat, to easy the pain of another bad season. So maybe if RAC is lucky, he will get both a top OT and OG and a new QB for cover.
God I would love them to turn this boat around and have a winning season, and to tell the true, that maybe the only thing that would save the jobs of everyone.
jmho 
Go Browns !!!!
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I think if an experienced QB becomes available the Browns may go in that direction.
I think privately they wish they had made a run a Brees last year. That is hindsight for sure, they could have gone after Culpepper as well. Remeber there were rumours about a deal for Harrington that fell through.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Harrington is what he is and wouldn't have done any better than Frye. He'd have passed a little better, but wouldn't have escaped nearly as much, and in the end, we'd be stuck with Harrington.
As far as Brees goes, you're probably aware of the medical reports that finally came out AFTER Brees was putting up a pro-bowl year. That shoulder was shredded, and kept in place by pins. It's no wonder we passed on him. I would have passed on him as well with the way the medical report read. Too bad Savage didn't throw the dice though.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'll never fault Savage for passing on Brees,,,, Given the extent of his injury, there was no more than a 50/50 chance he'd have even been able to play... as it turns out, he played very very well,,,,, but who could have guessed that one.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Any number of Dawgs are soon to answer that one 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yeah,,, there were plenty of people pimpin Brees last season,,, Hey, they had a 50/50 chance a being right,,,, 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that BQ COULD SAVE HIS JOB ...
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does BQ have a halo? 
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You say save his job like he's in danger of losing it! Stuff like that is the only reason he won't be back. It's year 3 or 5. I'm willing to stick with the original opie plan!! I mean c'mon. I still think we will be superbowl bound, but he'd have to screw up royally for me to be calling for him to be fired. Even then I have a feeling that Lerner wouldn't listen to me anyway.  Really unless we keep talking about RAC being fired I doubt he will be. Some folks want to complain that the media is the one driving this circus car, but in reality it's us! (well some of us) 
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Quote:
there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that BQ COULD SAVE HIS JOB ...
BQ reminds me a lot of Ryan Leaf. In that he's going to be terrible in the NFL.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I'll never fault Savage for passing on Brees,,,,
LOL........you'll never fault Savage for anything.
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Given the extent of his injury, there was no more than a 50/50 chance he'd have even been able to play.
Is that documented, or your odds?
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as it turns out, he played very very well,,,,, but who could have guessed that one.
Uhmmm...........New Orleans?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Savage had a really good off-season this past year. And I think his first year he was still feeling out the organization and trying to figure out what direction to take the team in.
JMHO
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
Savage had a really good off-season this past year. And I think his first year he was still feeling out the organization and trying to figure out what direction to take the team in.
I can agree with that,,, with the lack of talent we had here, it's no wonder they set a long term plan in place,,, no way they get it done in just a couple of years...... Of course, there are those on here that would blame Savage for everything and then question those that don't,,, Can you imagine how stupid that is? Geez,,,, some people!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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j/k
I don't think who we draft will have a huge impact on whether or not RAC keeps his job. What needs to happen is he needs to do a better job of coaching. Not so much won-loss record but having a team that 1) is prepared for each game 2) appears to listen him when he talks 3) makes adjustments at halftime 4)winning a challenge or two wouldn't hurt either. These are the problems that RAC needs to fix in order to deserve keep his job at least in my eyes.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
Quote:
there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that BQ COULD SAVE HIS JOB ...
BQ reminds me a lot of Ryan Leaf. In that he's going to be terrible in the NFL.
It must be good humor friday.
Leaf was a workout wonder, had 1 decent year in college, and shot up the draft board.
Quinn has played in a major college program for several years and done well.
The only similarity is that the play QB.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I did mean it as a joke. I'm not a big BQ fan---but comparing him to Leaf---even for me--is ridiculous.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I don't think who we draft will have a huge impact on whether or not RAC keeps his job.
No I agree the players have nothing to do with winning. 
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What needs to happen is he needs to do a better job of coaching. Not so much won-loss record
Wins and losses are the most important thing! I never understand when people say the win loss record is not as important as showing improvement. Gee if I had an employer that said I don't care how well you do what I hired you to do as long as you get better at it in the next 3 to 5 years I would be totally shocked. Most jobs give you a 90 day period to prove yourself or you are gone.
Back to the topic, if we do get a QB like Quinn it probably would buy RAC another season and if he turns the team around this year that would be great but if we have another poor season why would anyone want to give him that amount of time when opportunities for proven coaches (Cowher) will be out there for the taking? 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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with the lack of talent we had here, it's no wonder they set a long term plan in place,,, no way they get it done in just a couple of years......
If that is true, why the big turnover on the coaching staff? LOL...the lack of talent isn't an excuse for the coaching staff, but the lack of talent is an excuse for Savage, even though he is bringing in the talent.
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Of course, there are those on here that would blame Savage for everything and then question those that don't,,, Can you imagine how stupid that is?
I asked you two questions that you chose not to answer. Instead, you respond by calling me stupid. Gee, it really is great to have you on this board. 
For the record, I do NOT blame Savage for everything. I think he has made some good moves. I think he has made some bad moves. For example---drafting Edwards was a bad move. Drafting Wimbley was a good move. The way he has handled the QB has been horrid. Acquiring Bentley was tremendous.
I try and call each move as I see them. Not once have I said he should be fired. On the other hand, you defend everything he does and call those who question him stupid and liars.
Yeah, I really missed the likes of you when you snubbed this board for the bigger board. And I was so happy after you came over here w/the rest of the rats from that sinking ship....errr...board.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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j/k
I don't think who we draft will have a huge impact on whether or not RAC keeps his job. What needs to happen is he needs to do a better job of coaching. Not so much won-loss record but having a team that 1) is prepared for each game 2) appears to listen him when he talks 3) makes adjustments at halftime 4)winning a challenge or two wouldn't hurt either. These are the problems that RAC needs to fix in order to deserve keep his job at least in my eyes.
I couldn't agree with you more. Savage has a 5 year plan and Savage will get his 5 years to show he can improve the talent on thsi team. After all it usually takes a couple or 3 years for the draft picks to show if they are NFL material or not. So far his draft picks overall are getting a passing grade. Notice I said overall.
But RAC ..... RAC may get the whole 3rd year to show he can coach and manage a team both on and off the field. Or he may not if he doesn't show improvement in his coaching and management skills and quickly at this point. It's those things you mention here that he is failing at (and at the W/L too) getting his team ready to plan each game for teh full 60 minutes,making in game adjustments and for Gods sake play to WIN and not play to not lose.
![[Linked Image from i74.photobucket.com]](http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i270/Vincent143/angry_dog.gif)
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You are a good poster and appear to be a good guy. Therefore, I am going to use your post to question some accepted beliefs on this board. Quote:
I don't think who we draft will have a huge impact on whether or not RAC keeps his job. What needs to happen is he needs to do a better job of coaching. Not so much won-loss record
There are people who like to say that the won-loss record is not a factor, because if that was the factor in determining whether a coach is good or not, a few of us would pounce all over that claim by pointing to our lack of talent. In reality........most everyone is judging the the coaches on the won/lost record. If we would have been 10 and 6 this past season, no one would be saying squat about RAC or any of the other coaches.
You did point to some things RAC needs to do better, and that is more than most of his detractors do. Let me look at them.
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a team that 1) is prepared for each game
This one is hard to tell. Are you talking about having a sound game plan, or are you referring to how much fire they have at the beginnings of games?
If it is the former, the Browns usually came out w/a very good first drive, at least when Mo was still the OC. They did a pretty good job on defense early in the game too.
If you are talking about coming out w/fire, well........I must agree that the Browns came out flat in many games. I will tell you that you shouldn't underestimate the power that cancers in the locker room have on a team. Look at how Dallas faltererd down the stretch this year. We did the same thing, but we were a far less talented team than Dallas. I know most of you have no clue about what a negative influence Leon was on this team. In fact, there were all kinds of little cliques in that locker room. It was not a healthy environment. Joe tried talking about it after the season, but most posters either ignored it or didn't get what he was saying.
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2) appears to listen him when he talks
What did you see that made you think they did not listen to him when he talked?
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3) makes adjustments at halftime
Like we did in wins against Atlanta, Oakland, and Kansas City? Just how many big leads did this team blow? I saw someone say that we didn't protect first half leads and other posters just brought right into it....but seriously, just how many big leads did the Browns have at halftime? I can't remember any.
We didn't lose games in the second half because our coaching staff was unable to make adjustments, we lost them because we had inferior talent. It's like fist fighting a guy who is way badder than you...You may catch him w/a few shots early, but eventually, he's going to kick your ass.
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4)winning a challenge or two wouldn't hurt either.
Do you guys really think that RAC makes those challenges? If he does, the Browns are more clueless than even I think. The decision to challenge a play is called down from the coach or coaches in the booth. They have a better view and can see replays. I will give you that the Browns are awful at challenging calls, but I can't put all the blame on RAC.
Jester..........I did not want RAC here in the first place. I remember I was one of the very few who said so. I remember the tongue lashing I took for it. I will also say that I really don't know if he is a good head coach or not. However, I do know this.............it is too early to judge him. It would be grossly unfair to evaluate his coaching abilitites on what we have seen thus far. Here's why:
1] The talent level is way below average
2] The offensive line sucks.
3] The offensive line did not have time to develop much needed continuity.
4] The QB is very inexperienced and some people question his skills.
5] The running backs are terrible. Not one of them is a feature back. Their ineptness hurts our inexperienced qb, although they in turn are hurt by how bad our OL is.
6] K2, while a great talent, was hurting all year. As a result, his blocking suffered. He also did not know where to go on all the plays.
7] JoeJ was injured in the first game. This set him behind the other wide recievers and he and the qbs never developed a real comfort level.
8] Leon ran poor routes. He did not fight for inside position. He did not fight for balls. He dropped too many balls. And that is not the worst part. He did not know where to line up. He ran the wrong routes. His sight adjustments were non-existant....and he had the nerve to call out other players and say he played w/passion. *L* He was a cancer in the locker room, both towards the players and his offensive coaches.
I am not even going to touch the defensive side of the ball, but there were problems there too.........most notably the injuries to the corners, Savage's neglect of the d-line, a rookie OLB who was one dimensional, etc.
In short, there are many more facts to say that RAC and his coaching staff did not receive a fair shot this year. Again, I am not saying RAC or any of the guys are great coaches, but it was damn near impossible to evaluate them.
Here is the bottom line............it is all about wins and losses. And no one is going to tell me different. They may say it isn't about wins and losses, but that is just a cover for their argument. RAC needs to win at least 9 games this year. I don't think the Browns can win 9 games this year, and I don't care if Vince Freaking Lombardi was their coach. RAC is a dead man walking. I don't think it is fair or right, but it doesn't matter what I think.
One last thing for all of you guys who love running coaches out of town. Where has it gotten us? You always think it is going to get so much better, but it never does. Answer these honestly.
---Did our offense improve after we fired Arians?
---Did our defense improve after we canned Fazio?
---Are we better now than when Butch was here? Seriously, we won 4 freaking games this year and blew up the coaching staff.... again.
---Did our offense improve after we fired Mo? We faced weaker opponents and were shut out in 3 of the last 6 games and scored a defensive TD in another game and late meaningless TD in a blowout loss to the Squeelers. That's improvement?
Here is a fact for you...............the Browns have either gotten worse or stayed the same after every freaking coaching change they have made in recent years. We continue to be at the bottom of the standings and the top of the draft. We don't talk about the playoffs from October on in Cleveland, instead we talk about mock drafts.
Then we get all giddy when the new wave of changes are made and talk about how we are finally on the right track . We make fun of the other teams and scold the media for being negative. We boast, brag, and dream. Unfortunately, by the end of September, it's the same old story........the track to nowhere.
This organization needs to grow some and stick w/a plan. Correct mistakes along the way, but the constant revamping of the team has turned the Browns into one of the very worst franchises in the entire NFL. Stop the madness!
PS: Hey Jester, I hope you do realize I was simply using your post to address many posters. In fact, I think your opinion on RAC has been greatly influenced by how often those thoughts are spoken on this board. Hope we are still cool.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 765
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 765 |
Good post Vers.
It is almost impossible for fans to understand just what bad of shape this team was in when the Opie & RAC show took over. They not only started with a losing team, they started with a team that was worse than an ordinary expansion team. To think that 6 years after coming back into the fold, that we still have the lowest number of draft picks on the roster of any NFL team means so many things in so many different ways to try to detail its impact is almost impossible.
We suck. We are going to suck for awhile. I am as underwhelmed by RAC as I am overwhelmed with Eric Mangini, but we might as well stay the course with him until we are putting a real NFL team on the field. THEN we can start seeing if he can be a good coach. Until then it is stupid for fans to act like every single move is going to make or break this team. This team is broken, and they are putting the pieces in place. Slowly.........ever so slowly.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Would New QB save RAC ?
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