DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 70 Years ago...WWII

70 Years ago today the world was turned upside down.
Salute to those who stood up, sacrificed and eventually defeated
the wrong brought upon mankind...



updated 5:02 a.m. ET, Tues., Sept . 1, 2009

GDANSK, Poland - Officials from across Europe and the United States gathered in northern Poland on Tuesday to mark the outbreak of World War II 70 years ago, in a ceremony bringing together former foes and friends to pay tribute to the tens of millions killed in the conflict.

Ahead of the international commemoration, Polish leaders came together at dawn on Gdansk's Westerplatte peninsula for a ceremony marking the exact time the German battleship Schleswig-Holstein shelled a tiny Polish military outpost where the Polish navy's arsenal was housed in the war's opening salvo.

Red and white Polish flags fluttered in the breeze as the officials at 4:45 a.m. placed wreaths at the foot of the monument to the defenders of Westerplatte as an honor guard looked on.

"Westerplatte is a symbol, a symbol of the heroic fight of the weaker against the stronger," President Lech Kaczynski said. "It is proof of patriotism and an unbreakable spirit. Glory to the heroes of those days, glory to the heroes of Westerplatte, glory to all of the soldiers who fought in World War II against German Nazism, and against Bolshevik totalitarianism."

Prime Minister Donald Tusk echoed that praise, while warning of the dangers of forgetting the war's lessons.

"We meet here to remember who started the war, who the culprit was, who the executioner in the war was, and who was the victim of this aggression," Tusk said.

"We meet here to remember this, because we Poles know that without this memory, honest memory about the truth, about the sources of World War II, Poland, Europe and the world will not be safe," he said.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin — representatives of the two countries that invaded Poland in September 1939, starting the war — were to take part in the commemoration later in the day.

Merkel told Germany's ARD television Tuesday that her country would never forget the "causes and effects" of the war.

"Germany triggered the Second World War," she said. "We brought endless suffering to the world."

Blitzkrieg
Within a month of the Sept. 1 attack, Poland was overwhelmed by the Nazi blitzkrieg from the west, and an attack two weeks later from the east by forces from the Soviet Union, which had signed a pact with Hitler's Germany.

It was the beginning of more than five years of war that would engulf the world and see more than 50 million people slaughtered as the German war machine rolled over Europe.

Poland alone lost some 6 million citizens — half of them Jews — and more than half its national wealth. During the German occupation, the country was also used as a base for the Nazis' genocide machinery, home to Auschwitz, Majdanek, Sobibor and other death camps built for the annihilation of Europe's Jews.

At the height of the war, the European theater stretched from North Africa to the outskirts of Moscow, and pitted Germany and its allies, including Italy, against Britain, France, the Soviet Union and the United States, along with a host of other countries, including Polish forces in exile.

The war in Europe ended on May 8, 1945, with Germany's unconditional surrender.

Around 20 European leaders and officials including French Premier Francois Fillon and British Foreign Secretary David Miliband will join Merkel and Putin for the ceremonies.

The United States will be represented by National Security Adviser James Jones. The delegation, which is lower-ranking that of most European nations, has disappointed some in Poland who view Washington as a close and historic ally.

U.S. State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said, however, that it was no indication of a chill in relations between the two nations.

"There are very deep and extensive ties between the U.S. and Poland. We are bound by, by not only ethnic and cultural ties, but also by our membership in NATO," he said.

"We appreciate the, the tremendous sacrifice that the people of Poland made in World War II," Kelly said.

'Signal of reconciliation'
But the presence of Merkel and Putin has sparked the most interest in Poland.

Warsaw enjoys generally warm ties with Germany, and Merkel welcomed her invitation to the events, pointing to it a "signal of reconciliation" between the two countries. Both are members of the European Union.

She said Sept. 1 is "a day of mourning for the suffering" that Nazi Germany brought on Europe and of "remembrance of the guilt Germany brought upon itself" by starting the war.

Poland's relations with Russia, meanwhile, remain tense.

But in a letter to Poles published in the Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza on the eve of the anniversary, Putin called for "joint grief and forgiveness" in the hope that "Russian-Polish relations will sooner or later reach such a high level of true partnership," as Russian-German ties.

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Side note: I didn't want to trash a thread meant to honor the brave by mentioning the US poor showing.

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"We meet here to remember this, because we Poles know that without this memory, honest memory about the truth, about the sources of World War II, Poland, Europe and the world will not be safe," he said.

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What scares me the most is as humans we do forget,

You wouldn't be trashing or ruining this thread by doing so. That is very unhonorable of the US to not have a better showing in Poland. The US has been on a downward spiral in the view and relationships with other countries for quite some time and this only further proves what other people think of this country...that be selfish and arrogant.

Yeah it barely took 25 years to go from WWI to WWII

It's not that the people forget, it's that greed and power overrule common sense.

WWII did bring about our role as a dominant world power and effectively ended the British Empire so at least something "good" came of it all.

Well said. People will listen to and follow just about anyone promising a better life, no matter how moronic or unrealistic the method. Hence, president Obama.

May we never forget those who gave so much, and those who sacrifced all, to protect this country and her people, as well as to defeat the greatest evil of, quite possibly, all time.

Just imagine if that dweeb had had a nuclear arsenal at his disposal,....

Just imagine if he had left well enough alone on the East . No way we would have gotten a foothold in Europe .

You think he could have actually 'won' ?? I agree, maybe he could have occupied Europe for a time, but what happens then ?? There some other (possible) variables that I believe would have eventually brought this supposed "Empire" to an end.

The problem with all maniacal narcissits is that they are never satisfied. Every one, down through history that is left unchecked, will eventually go too far, take too big of a risk, and/or spread his resources too thin in conquest. Hitler might have controlled and occupied Europe for a while and yes, things would have played out much differently... but eventually he would have needed to keep going, either to the east or to North America or even North Africa but he would have only been happy sitting on Europe for so long. But I do agree, had he not gone east when he did, things would have been different.

Worse yet, it might have bought him the time he needed to develop an atomic weapon of his own

This is that "sinking-boat-feeling" we're (at least, I am) in now. If WW II has taught us anything, it's that organizations like Al Queda have to be stopped.

Also mentioned was the possible "alliance" between Hitler and Stalin, rather than a counter-offensive by the Russians,....the alliance would have been more likely, as (I believe) Russia did not then posess the military capability to successfully counter-o from the West.

Also then possible was the necessity for the United States to have had to employ The Manhattan in Europe,...ouch.

You also have the possibility that Germany just could not have withstood continued pressure from Amercia's war effort ( agreed splitting the Reich Army was a poor move and had weakened them. ) Youngstown would still be making steel,....well, hopefully not THAT long a pressure,...

Ifs, ands, or buts; nonetheless, a nice discussion for a change.

You have to throw in the Japanese factor also. If the Soviets were allied or neutral a serious threat would be removed from Japan leaving their full force to fight in the Pacific.

How would a Soviet/Chicom situation have played out if the Soviets took a different tact as Communist China was allied with the West? No China Burma bases most likely

Someone mentioned time in the equation and what the Nazis could have done with it and a bigger pool of natural resources had the cards fallen differently.

No matter what your beliefs and how horrible it all was, sometimes it just looks like a devine hand intervened.

Not to make jokes, as it was fiction, but you just have to be humbled that there were Americans who went and got Private Ryan. I get goose bumps just re-hearing the General quote Lincoln's letter to the bereaved mother,....

SPR was based on a true story with a few Hollywood liberties thrown in
but was pretty powerful all in all.

While Private Ryan was a fictional character, the story is inspired by real events: Following the deaths of the five Sullivan brothers from Waterloo, Iowa, on the USS Juneau in November 1942, the U.S. War Department established the Sole Survivor Policy to protect remaining family members from combat duty. Ryan's character is based on Sergeant Frederick "Fritz" Niland, a member of the 101st Airborne, who was accidentally dropped behind enemy lines during World War II. He eventually made it back to his unit, where he was informed that two of his brothers had died at Normandy and the third had gone missing in Burma. Niland was sent home to Tonawanda, New York, but his family tragedy had a somewhat happier ending than Ryan's or the Sullivans': His brother who was believed to have died in the Far East was eventually found alive during the liberation of a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp

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You think he could have actually 'won' ??

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I do yes . At no time in the European conflict did we face anywhere near half the strength of the German army . The units we did face were not the cream of the crop as those were being wasted in the carnage that was the Eastern Front . Had Hitler waited until Europe was completely in the fold before jumping into the fray with Russia he would have had a much more flexible time table in dealing with Russia . Also maybe he should have had a little more cooperation with his one ally of importance Japan . I love WWII history .